Gun Groups May Not Be Bush Campaign Weapon

LA Slimes ^ | APril 13, 2004 | Eric Slater

[Beelzebubba]

... Four years later, some gun owners have grown so disenchanted with President Bush that they may cast a protest vote for a third-party candidate, stay away from the polls, or even back the likely Democratic nominee, gun-control advocate John F. Kerry.

It's unclear how many gun owners could be counted as activists, but they are affiliated with a variety of organizations, from the NRA and Gun Owners of America to smaller state and regional organizations around the country. And they could play a pivotal role in the outcome of this year's presidential race. ...

"It's not just gun rights for us, it's the Bill of Rights," said Angel Shamaya, executive director of KeepAndBearArms.com, which claims tens of thousands of supporters. "A lot of gun-rights advocates are from mildly upset to livid over President Bush and his administration." ...

[Beelzebubba]

Long, interesting article. (username "biased" password "biased")

[Conspiracy Guy]

That is a load of crap. Gun Owners will not throw their vote away on Nader. It is a stupid tactic that would get Kerry elected.

Most gun owners are not stupid.

[neverdem]

BANG

[Billthedrill]

Wishful thinking on the part of the delusional who don't understand either the issue or its pro-gun partisans.

[newgeezer]

(username "biased" password "biased")

Thanks. That helps!

[Poohbah]

Most gun owners are not stupid.

Needs a small edit:

Most gun owners who haven't killed themselves or a friend with a negligent discharge are not stupid.

[paul51]

This guy must have rocks in his head. He certainly isn't a gun owner

[newgeezer]

Although they traditionally back Republicans, several state and regional gun-rights groups — driven especially by opposition to the Patriot Act and other post-Sept. 11 measures — have grown so disillusioned by the Bush administration that they are openly discussing the potential benefits of voting for Kerry.

How many homo "gun-rights groups" are there?

[Beelzebubba]

Outline summary for the LA Slimes-averse:

In 2000, NRA supported Bush, promising an office inside the Whitehouse. Opposed Gore. Helped Bush win.

Now, Some pro gun voters feel let down by Bush, and may go 3rd party or Kerry. Could be critical to election.

Patriot Act and airport security also offensive to some. Unusual alliance with ACLU.

Bush may be better than Kerry on guns, but gun owners have lost enthusiasm and may stay home.

Bush support of indurtry liability protection is liked, but extension of AWB and not arming pilots is not.

NRA scolds Bush for silly airport security measures.

Vice President Dick Cheney to address NRA convention.

Bush cozying up with NRA, hunting group officials.

Bush spokesman: "President Bush has been a long, consistent 2nd Amendment supporter."

Lots of gun owners, 10m of whom vote based on the issue.

Gun owners big in swing states.
State gun groups are attacking RINOs on guns.

Discussion of recent Senate shenanigans re industry protection and AWB amendment.

Dems now considering benefits of pro-gun positions. (Kerry the pheasant hunter.)

The 2nd Amendment was not written to guarantee hunting rights.

Some groups call NRA too moderate (infighting).

Gridlock (Dem in WH, R congress) might be better to secure liberties.

Kopel: At least we aren't losing gun rights under Bush.

[Beelzebubba]

How many homo "gun-rights groups" are there?

---

http://www.pinkpistols.org/

[miloklancy]

Gun owners will not abandon Bush. I don't think firearms enthusiasts trust Kerry and they know if he comes into office, the second ammendment will once again face an attack by the left.

[Monty22]

This gun supporter will be severely out of his mind if Bush signs a new AWB, and could possibly sit the election out. We'll see if he'll do that or not.

[Rightone]

Just ridiculous. Gun owners and gun groups will support President Bush close to 100%. No doubt about it.

[Beelzebubba]

Gun owners will not abandon Bush. I don't think firearms enthusiasts trust Kerry and they know if he comes into office, the second ammendment will once again face an attack by the left.

---

This is addressed in the article by the activist they interviewed:

"Had the Clinton administration proposed the Patriot Act, which is a real scary thing for gun owners, the Republican-controlled Congress would have been apoplectic," said Starrett of the Oregon Firearms Federation.

"The Republicans aren't the saviors of gun owners. Sometimes we're better off when those two gangs are divided," he said.

[Mr. Mojo]

But it [the administration] also has repeatedly disappointed gun activists on other issues, from refusing to allow airline pilots to arm themselves to quietly supporting the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban.

Actually, Bush was upfront about supporting the ban before election 2000, so what are they disappointed about? We knew what we were getting.

[ArrogantBustard]

As I, and others, have made quite crystal clear on this forum:

If President Bush betrays us by signing an extension of the ugly-gun ban, or any other new gun control, he WILL lose our votes in November.

Guaranteed.

[Beelzebubba]

Gun owners and gun groups will support President Bush close to 100%.

---

Wait for the comments here, but Mrs. B and I each were donors, volunteers and voters for Bush on 2000. This time, Mrs. B will vote 3rd party, and I might vote for Bush, but only if he does something to impress me. Which seems unlikely.

I've been stuffing the donation solicitations with comments on Bush selling us out on the AWB for a year.

I just have a hard time doing anything to help a guy who has sold out the Constitution, no matter how bad his opponent. If Gore had been elected, Congress would have read the Patriot act before passing it. CFR would not have passed, not would a host of other offenses. And the AWB sunset would be no less safe. (Bush means to SIGN the Clinton rifle ban permanently into law!)

[Beelzebubba]

Actually, Bush was upfront about supporting the ban before election 2000, so what are they disappointed about? We knew what we were getting.

---

We assumed he was pandering to the soccer Moms, a mirror image of how Clinton and Kerry pretend to be pro-gun.

[Monty22]

There's a solid chance that it won't reach his desk. Then there's a chance it won't be the same AWB, and he'll veto (very small chance, I know).

Overall, our odds are still 50/50

[Beelzebubba]

There's a solid chance that it won't reach his desk. Then there's a chance it won't be the same AWB, and he'll veto (very small chance, I know).

---

The same would have been (or would be) equally likely to be true about Gore or Kerry.

[TheDon]

President Bush will definitely be getting my vote.

[spodefly]

David Kopel, research director at the Independence Institute, a conservative think tank in Golden, Colo., said gun owners who are disenchanted with Bush should look back at Clinton, ahead to a potential Kerry administration, and work on Bush's reelection campaign.

"The complaint among some of the activists [this season] is that George Bush hasn't done enough for us affirmatively," Kopel said.

"But gun owners on the whole tend to advance and win at the state level whenever the president is not actively against them. I'll take a Republican who mostly leaves us alone any day over a Democrat who would mobilize the nation against us."

[nightdriver]

"Most gun owners are not stupid."

I dunno. A couple of years ago I saw a guy's pickup with a deer rifle on a rack in the window with Gore/Lieberman stickers all over the back.

Go figure.

[uncbob]

Most gun owners are not stupid.

Well if they were smart then the NRA would have 40,000,000 members and all this control BS would have been histolry LONG AGO

[Monty22]

If Bush signs it, I'll *probably* hold in my vomit and vote for him, but it'll be one of the most difficult things I've ever done in my life.

I really hope it doesn't come to that.

[Prime Choice]

Four years later, some gun owners have grown so disenchanted with President Bush that they may cast a protest vote for a third-party candidate, stay away from the polls, or even back the likely Democratic nominee, gun-control advocate John F. Kerry.

Any pro-gun activist who votes for Kerry is a fool. That's no different than cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Any eligible citizen who doesn't vote has no right to complain about the outcome. Arguing otherwise is to suggest that one who willfully refuses to participate in the choice of a meal has a legitimate complaint when the food doesn't suit their palate.

[BJClinton]

This gun supporter will be severely out of his mind if Bush signs a new AWB

Didn't the AWB crash-n-burn in the Senate? I was under the impression that it was going to sunset.

[ezoeni]

we will see in september. I seem to remember what papa bush did

[Monty22]

That was just one attempt to attach it to a bill. They'll try to attach it on more I'm sure. We'll see.

Anyone know how many times and different unrelated bills they can stick it on?

[Rightone]

we will see in september. I seem to remember what papa bush did.

So do I and I do not forgive him for that!

[prairiebreeze]

Foolish response considering the implications to gun owners and the WOT. But I realize I'm probably talking to myself.

Prairie

[mcshot]

Unfortunately, many Michigan gun owners are apparently stupid or blind when it comes to protecting their Second Amendment rights (RKBA).
mc

[Gandalf_The_Gray]

How many homo "gun-rights groups" are there?

One, that I've heard of. They call themselves the "Pink Pistols".

It's a big tent, I'm WAY over on the other side (near the door, back to the wall, facing in).

Regards,
GtG

[ArrogantBustard]

I've been hearing that for twenty years.

I'm just not interested in it any more.

We have a Republican Senate, a Republican House and a Republican President.

Why in the name of all that's holy was the ugly-gun-ban renewal even permitted to reach the Senate floor for a vote? You cannot give me a good reason for allowing that to happen, since there simply isn't one.

[pennypacker0411]

You will be surprised to know that that most cops and ex cops I talk to are very much anti "assault rifle" . I guess bush has to appeal to the cop vote withing the "big tent conservatism"

[cksharks]

This frigging reporter has been reading the FR treads, I will not vote for Bush if (insert answer) mine is, he will not let me carry 50cal machine guns to a turkey shoot. Just put in guns and Bush and read the answers.

[cksharks]

And I hope the hell you live to regret that decision and it comes back to bite your and your other posters right smack in the ASS!!!!!!!!!!

[Beelzebubba]

I'm not sure I fully catch your drift.

[Sender]

The Dems will try all manner of psyops before November. Anything to influence a few weak minds into abandoning the Bush vote.

And they're already playing CYA for their expected loss too. 'The fix is in', 'black box voting' and 'stolen election'...

[cksharks]

Whats not to understand For months ever day on here there have been hundreds of posts saying I will not vote for Bush IF---- name your poison. They are called one issue voters and it sounds just like you.

[archy]

That is a load of crap. Gun Owners will not throw their vote away on Nader. It is a stupid tactic that would get Kerry elected.

Most gun owners are not stupid.

In 151 days, we'll see if Bush is even more stupid. I he wants to lose his reelection bid the way his father did his, all he has to do is take any action resembling a renewal or reintroduction of the Assaut Weapons Ban, and it'll cost him the three to five million votes that saved his election in 2000.

In 1991, his father was holding better than a 70% popularity poll and riding the groundswell of patriotism and support that accompanied the limited success of Desert Storm and the 1991 Gulf War; a year later Bush was out of office and Clinton was in. If Bush II wants to see his own reelection chances sunk, the renewal of the Assault Weapons Ban is just the torpedo to do it; his popularity now is nowhere close to what his daddy's was.

[archy]

If President Bush betrays us by signing an extension of the ugly-gun ban, or any other new gun control, he WILL lose our votes in November.

Guaranteed.

Concur. Me too.

Any others?

[archy]

You will be surprised to know that that most cops and ex cops I talk to are very much anti "assault rifle" . I guess bush has to appeal to the cop vote withing the "big tent conservatism"

I guess Bush has to do what they tell him or they'll kill him. I wondered what the FBI needed with those 2000 silenced snipers rifles they bought.

[archy]

Didn't the AWB crash-n-burn in the Senate? I was under the impression that it was going to sunset.

We'll find out in about 151 days. But alterenate replacement legislation that would have even more fare-reaching results, including confiscations, has already been drafted, and some versions have even been introduced.

[Beelzebubba]

If Bush extends the AWB, I will work AGAINST his re-election. Not pro-Kerry, but definitely anti-Bush.

The bumper sticker I saw recently on a clearly-conservative truck in a conservative region was "Pro-Constitution, Anti-Bush."

I won't go that far if the AWB sunsets, and will keep my mouth shut and vote 3rd party.

Better a loser Dem to stiffen the spines of Congressional Republicans than a RINO.

[archy]

I've been stuffing the donation solicitations with comments on Bush selling us out on the AWB for a year.

Thank you.

I've been returning mine with xeroxed copies of the news reports about Bush I's reelection defeat. We shall see if they get the point.

[ozzymandus]

Any gun owner who votes for kerry deserves to have his door kicked in by jack-booted government thugs.

[archy]

The bumper sticker I saw recently on a clearly-conservative truck in a conservative region was "Pro-Constitution, Anti-Bush."

I won't go that far if the AWB sunsets, and will keep my mouth shut and vote 3rd party.

Better a loser Dem to stiffen the spines of Congressional Republicans than a RINO.

My general policy is to work as hard as possible to defeat any incumbent, of either party. In 5 months, we'll know.

[Monty22]

If Bush renews the AWB.. Then he's no better than kerry. Honestly.

Either way, we are doomed. If he'll stand against it, I'll support him 100%. If Republicans in Congress stand like they should and stop it, I'll vote Bush too.

If the Republicans in Congress and Bush let this go on.. Why the hell not vote for kerry? There's no difference really.

[archy]

Any gun owner who votes for kerry deserves to have his door kicked in by jack-booted government thugs.

Any gun owner who votes for any politician who would renew the Assault Weapons Ban deserves to have his door kicked in by jack-booted government thugs.