The Truth about 'the Wall'

The Washington Post ^ | April 18, 2004 | Jamie S. Gorelick

[Just mythoughts]

"That may be true, but as I have not seen any "evidence" leading me to believe otherwise, I am willing, for know, to accept Gorelick's statement as to motive.

She MUST however, leave the commission, either voluntarily or by decree."


I agree Gorelick must leave the commission one way or another.

Unfortunately, the chances of the "evidence" still being around are very slim, they loved the shredders in Clintonville.

The fact that Gorelick refuses to acknowledge the appearance of being part of the problem is more telling that she and those she represents have no fear of "evidence".

[BluH2o]

She was featured in a suck-up report on one of the nightly news shows this evening.

ABC's Evening News and you're right it was a suck up piece. Bottom line, Gorelick was recommended to the Commission by Das"hole" and Gephardt ... she's auditioning for a role in the Kerry administration if he wins this November.

[An.American.Expatriate]

Just looked through the PDF's at Forensic Intelligence International.

I'm not convinced of the veracity of this group or the information.

For example - Gerard Van Hoorelbeke, a federal convict, supposedly wrote a letter to FBI Director Freeh, in which he claims to have had access to FBI-302's concerning Gregory Scarpa and that he had confronted Ramzi Yousef with them - Yousef allegedly stated, “That don’t mean shit, soon “Bin Laden” will use your own planes as bombs to take down the W.T.C.”

I find it highly improbable that an inmate would have had access to sensitive FBI 302's.

The 302's themself seem suspicious. I used to write interview reports and these just don't "sound" right.

For example - SCARPA is refered to continually throughout the transcript - including a reference to (PROTECT IDENTITY). Normal procedure (and common sense!!) would dictate that SCARPA be refered to once, completely at the beginning of the transcript including his desire for confidentiality / protection - thereafter he would be refered to as SOURCE. Furthermore, as every 302 must stand on it's own - each initial reference to persons / places is always "complete" - thereafter "YOUSEF" etc would be used. Also, since SCARPA was (Protect Identity), how did a convict get his hands on unredacted copies (the Agent's name(s) is curiously redacted)?

All in all, it sound's "fishy" - I will "note" the info, but definate cooboration is needed!

[Diogenesis]

"I agree Gorelick must leave the commission one way or another."

Inquiring minds want to know more about her (and her office's role) in the Barbara Wise, Foster and Sec. Brown murders, BEFORE she takes off.

[Just mythoughts]

"Inquiring minds want to know more about her (and her office's role) in the Barbara Wise, Foster and Sec. Brown murders, BEFORE she takes off."


Personally, I doubt she goes anywhere until that "final" report gets written.

I think the "FIFTH" would be the answer for "inquiring minds".

[WhiteyAppleseed]

The following is the beginning of a 47-page file at the link provided in a previous post: The Gerard Van Hoorelbeke _ Louis Freeh Scarpa File Transcribed letter (2/15/01) from Gerard Van Hoorelbeke to Louis Freeh (facsimile of original follows):

Director Freeh (FBI) 2/15/01 File # 265A-NY-258172 “Private and Confidential”

I had the rare opportunity of inspecting the above FBI 302 forms, that was furnished to me by infomatant Gregory Scarpa who worked this case for the FBI. At any rate, I also had the opportunity to discuss this case file with the person it involves (Ramsey Yousef). After I showed him the file, and after many conversations he uttered in disgust “That don’t mean shit, soon “Bin Laden” will use your own planes as bombs to take down the W.T.C.” Quote to the best of my knowledge ....

The complete letter and accompanying documents are at the link. Toward the end of the 47 pages—and note that for some reason there are pages missing—they are hand-numbered at the bottom of each page—but at the end there are two letters, one sent to 60 Minutes, the other to the New York Times. The information contained in those two letters, and the fact that that information has been ignored is very troubling. The letters implicate eight members of Congress with negligence—I’m not sure if the eight, not mentioned by name, are the Senate Select Committee.

The vast majority of the American people will never learn of this, and that is even more troubling—since some of the players ignoring the information are perceived to be biased, and I believe they are. There is a “smoking gun” and everyone has overlooked it.

The 9-11 commission is a production play scripted long ago and I, along with the majority of the American people, are nothing more than crowd noises from the pit, while those with the better seats are pleased with the production. I am completely sickened by what I see taking place. I’ve lost all faith in my government and I dread to think where, eventually, all of this will lead. It could be that it is too late to do anything and that it is inevitable that we will lose all that we hold dear. Perhaps it is fortunate that my wife and I are unable to have children and that neither of us is long for this world.

[KeyWest]

The issue is not who started it but her insistence that it be changed and that the current administration is at fault for not doing so. In essence she is operating from hindsight - that it should have been changed- while defending her right to not have changed the system but made it more difficult to exchange info when she worked for Clinton.

Sort of like a police officer/judge telling someone that they must turn left since that is what the law says and when the accident occurs telling them they could have avoided it if they turned right. So the driver is at fault for listening to the police officer/judge and not changing the law.

[Gothmog]

Thanks for your earlier thoughts on Gorelick. Gorelick can claim she was protecting US liberties, but the practical result was she was hampering efforts to locate and stop terrorists.

As far as Scarpa goes, you might find this interesting (or not). I believe I have to excerpt NYPost articles, so you'll have to go to the site.

The New York Post, 4/11/04:

"The 9/11 commission has been given an FBI report detailing mobster-turned-spy Gregory Scarpa Jr.'s 1996 prison exchanges with terrorist Ramzi Yousef. The Post's Al Guart reports how a Brooklyn hood became America's unlikely agent in the war on terror."

Excerpted

"In December 1996, Yousef got word from bin Laden himself on the need for five or six passports for plane hijackings set for the following April, a lengthy FBI report showed. 'Yousef said his people are only going to use the passports for one trip, to board the planes to be hijacked,' the report ominously stated."

http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/22532.htm

[ovrtaxt]

Please let me know by freepmail if you want to be taken off this list. Thanks.

[SkyPilot]

What IS that thing, anyway...a nipple?

I think Gore-lick and Janet Jackson should do a duet at the next Superbowl. Janet could have another "wardrobe malfunction" and Gore-lick could play "the husband."

[ovrtaxt]

If she wrote the wall it was at the behest of the Clintons. The question is why did the Clintons want this?

2 prevailing theories:

Democratic fundraising activities, which are naturally a mix of foreign sources and domestic agents, with ties to Communist China, nuclear missile technology, and who knows what else.

The elusive Clinton 'legacy', which was to be, in Slick's mind, peace and prosperity, especially Middle East peace. If the '93WTC, OKC, and TWA800 attacks were tied to ME terrorism, then we have been at war for the entire Clinton term, but nobody knew it because intelligence was hamstrung.

[ovrtaxt]

Come to think of it, why isn't there a commission investigating and reporting to the people WHY Hillar has so many FBI files? Very crimminal thing!

Well, who would sit on the commission? Where you gonna find people who aren't included in that group of files?

It's pretty sad to think that you can control the entire US government with info on just 700 people. Apparently all dirty.

[Jim Noble]

Resignation is an honorable act when you are disgraced.

Clintonistas are void of honor, and thousands of them are hanging on, burrowed into the Bush Administration and waiting for Hillary.

[ovrtaxt]

Very good historical perspective in your post. I agree with the context of history in which you set your comments, until you get to 1993.

The problem occurs when Gorlick sits up there and tries to capitalize on the whole perceived 911/ Iraq disconnect, with an attempt to score political points by blaming Bush Admin officials for the whole thing, when in reality she personally had plenty to do with the situation, even after a series of ME terrorist attacks, including WTC'92, OKC, TWA800, and finally, 911.

The Wall, and in fact the whole foreign vs. domestic info gathering procedure, which was legitimately enacted to protect us from a police state, shoould have been reworked long ago, before 911. But the Dems and the media continually downplayed it, and in fact blamed conservatives in the case of OKC.

And there's a history of the FBI manipulating 302 statements and physical evidence in these previous attacks. So, yes, Gorlick was somewhat justified in her approach, preoviding that all these other incidents didn't happen. But they did. And in fact, it seems that the DOJ actively worked against the people of the US in pursuit of their goals.

[An.American.Expatriate]

I agree.

There have been MANY attempts to implement rules under FISA & Co. Most have been either too lax or too stringent (Gorelick's is the latter).

Her transarent attempt at deflection by stating that the current Administration KEPT those rules in place at the beginning seems to imply that they thought those rules were sound. That is not necessarily true as it is physicall impossible for an incoming administration to review EVERY procedural memo from EVERY department to ensure that the rules are valid.

Actually, her op-ed is what I thought she SHOULD do (before resigning of course!!) - Go on record as to "how" this memo came about, "why" it was written in the way it was, AND make the case that such barriers are an impediment to CI/CT.

I didn't read the article, I assume she made the case for 1 & 2. I gather that 3 turned out to be a mea culpa.

I find the "blame game" that is occurring troubling - unfortunately we all knew that this was going to happen - I do hope though that the Commission can still somehow come up with sound recomendations - I am beginning to doubt that more and more . . .

[An.American.Expatriate]

I think that is what I read before.

I am not so much questioning the existence of the SCARPA 302's as I am the probability that a convict with ties to Yousef would have recieved unredacted copies!

This just doesn't pass the smell test.

[Gothmog]

Yep, I was just alerting you to the article in case it had info you were interested in.

[An.American.Expatriate]

The problem occurs when Gorlick sits up there and tries to capitalize on the whole perceived 911/ Iraq disconnect, with an attempt to score political points by blaming Bush Admin officials for the whole thing, when in reality she personally had plenty to do with the situation, even after a series of ME terrorist attacks, including WTC'92, OKC, TWA800, and finally, 911.

I too have a lot of trouble with her sitting as a "judge" on this commission since she was NOT just a "soldier" in the DoJ - she was a policy maker and leader. For her to know be sitting in judgement over her own actions is insanity.

[capt. norm]

She may well hang in there and destory the commision rather than level the Clintons vulnerable.

Either way its the "Purple Moo-moo" for her.

I kinda hope she'll allow the whole commission to go Don in flames.

Talking to my neighbors, she, along with Bob Kerrey and Ben Veniste, have projected a repulsive image of the Democratic Party.

My neighbors wife was ready to "throw something at the TV" when watching Ben Veniste (and, later Kerrey) grill Condi Rice.

She said it was obvious that they really had no questions, just things they wanted to say on camera....and were never interested in hearing the answers.

Ben Veniste has failed to realize the huge difference between a coutroom jury and the American TV viewing public. He turbid himself into a villain and will always be seen that way from now on.

By the way, these neighbors are Democrats.

[ovrtaxt]

For her to know be sitting in judgement over her own actions is insanity.

And if not for Ashcroft dropping the bomb last week, we would be none the wiser.

With one little pebble, he started an avalanche.