Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Abortion and rites: Tough choices for Catholic leaders and politicians
The Union Leader ^ | April 17, 2004 | CHARLOTTE ALLEN

Posted on 04/19/2004 9:15:36 AM PDT by presidio9

ANY DECISION by Massachusetts Sen. John F. Kerry to receive Communion at Mass is likely to be a controversial action, a line drawn in the sand of conflict between the presumptive Democratic nominee for president and his church over its teachings on the contentious issue of abortion.

That is because over the past few months, several prominent U.S. Catholic bishops, including Sean O'Malley, archbishop of Kerry's hometown of Boston, have decided finally to take a stand against Catholic politicians who support abortion rights. Like many Catholic politicians in this age when the majority of Americans support legal abortion to some degree — and when the backing of abortion-rights groups can be critical to a candidate's electoral success — Kerry distinguishes between what he calls his personal opposition to abortion and his legislative support of unrestricted abortion.

The bishops want to make clear that Catholic politicians like Kerry who defy the church's teachings on grave moral issues such as abortion are not in good standing as Catholics and are thus ineligible for Communion. For a Catholic, being barred from the Eucharist is tantamount to excommunication. In fact, it is excommunication: the denial of the church's central sacrament and hence full participation in the Catholic community.

So far, only one U.S. Catholic bishop, Raymond Burke, the newly installed archbishop of St. Louis, has said explicitly that he would refuse to give Communion to Kerry on the basis of the senator's stance on abortion. Burke warned the candidate a few days before the Missouri primary election on Feb. 3 "not to present himself for Communion" in St. Louis-area churches while campaigning. (Kerry finessed the issue by attending a Sunday service at a Baptist church in St. Louis.) O'Malley, replacing Cardinal Bernard F. Law, who resigned last year amid the Boston archdiocese's sexual abuse scandal, hasn't named Kerry specifically, but has been quoted as saying that Catholic politicians whose political views contradict Catholic teaching "shouldn't dare come to Communion." Ironically, Kerry and Edward M. Kennedy, Massachusetts's other Catholic Democratic senator and also a supporter of abortion rights, received the sacrament at the archbishop's installation Mass last July.

O'Malley's stance marks a major departure from the passivity and confusion with which most American Catholic bishops have approached — and in many cases still approach — the conundrum of the Catholic politician who declares that he or she is "personally opposed" to abortion but then, like Kerry, votes to support abortion rights.

During most of the 31 years since the Supreme Court's decision in Roe v. Wade legalizing nearly all abortions, the overwhelming majority of the 275 Catholic prelates in America have shied away from imposing anything resembling a sanction on Catholic politicians whose votes do not support Catholic teachings on moral issues.

Times have changed, however. In January 2003, Bishop William K. Weigand of Sacramento ordered the Catholic governor of California, Gray Davis, whose administration boasted of making California "the most pro-choice state in America," either to change his views or to stop receiving Communion. (A Davis spokesman responded that the bishop was "telling the faithful how to practice their faith" and that the governor would continue to take Communion.)

A few months later, the Weekly Standard reported that Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle, who also supports abortion rights, had received a private letter from Bishop Robert J. Carlson of Daschle's home diocese of Sioux Falls, S.D., instructing the senator to remove all references to himself as a Catholic from his congressional biography and campaign literature. (Carlson subsequently declined to comment on the report except to say that he had been in communication with Daschle, and Daschle, who also refused to comment, continues to identify himself as a Catholic.) Burke, who headed the diocese of LaCrosse, Wis., before his move to St. Louis early this year, sent letters to three Catholic legislators living in his Wisconsin diocese correctly warning them in private that they were jeopardizing their standing in the church by their consistent votes in support of abortion.

One impetus for the sudden energizing of the bishops is a Vatican document on the participation of Catholics in political life issued in January 2003. The "doctrinal note," as it is called, was addressed to Catholic bishops, politicians and other members of the laity who participate in political life.

Pope John Paul II had made it clear in a 1995 encyclical, Evangelium vitae, that Catholic citizens of democracies have an obligation to oppose laws that conflict with Catholic moral teaching on such issues as abortion and euthanasia. But the newer doctrinal note was unprecedented in its specific repudiation of the "personally opposed, but ... " option for Catholic politicians. The statement declared that Catholic teaching on abortion and the sanctity of marriage are not "confessional values" unique to Catholicism but are "ethical precepts ... rooted in human nature itself." Catholic lawmakers, the document stated, have a duty not to enact laws "which ignore the principles of natural ethics and yield to ephemeral cultural and moral trends."

Nonetheless, most bishops are still reluctant to respond publicly to Catholic politicians whose views contradict church teaching — for all kinds of reasons. One is that Canon 915 of church law makes clear that public denial of Communion is a punishment of last resort, to be invoked only against those who "obstinately persist in manifest grave sin." Those words suggest that the bishop should contact the offender privately first. Moreover, the word "manifest" implies that such a form of ostracism is an inappropriate sanction against mere private citizens who disobey church teachings in their private lives. Then there is the perception that the recent sex scandals have robbed U.S. bishops of their moral authority. Another reason may be that many politicians who support abortion rights are politically liberal on other issues, such as welfare and the death penalty, and thus perhaps acceptable to an episcopate whose members tend to be politically liberal themselves.

But the most likely reason is that excommunication so far has proved to be a two-edged sword. In 1989, Bishop Leo T. Maher of San Diego, Calif., forbade Lucy Killea, a former California Democratic assembly member who was a Catholic and was running for the state Senate, to receive Communion in Maher's diocese because of her opposition to abortion restrictions. Killea cast herself as a martyr of conscience and flew to Sacramento, whose ultraliberal bishop at the time, Francis A. Quinn, assured her that she would not be denied the Eucharist in his diocese.

Killea won that election — and after the trouncing of Maher, few bishops until recently have considered following his example. Indeed, Kerry may be counting on a Killea-style national reaction should a Catholic priest ever turn him away in the Communion line. In a New York Times interview last week, Kerry declared with evident irritation that "our constitution separates church and state," and that the Catholic Church's Second Vatican Council of the 1960s had allowed for "freedom of conscience" for Catholics with respect to choices concerning issues such as abortion rights and same-sex marriage.

Kerry has openly defied the Vatican on other issues (by supporting gay unions, for example). But truth be told, he probably has little to worry about in terms of lost votes from all but the most faithful Catholics. Even among the 45 percent of Catholics who attend Mass weekly or more often, fewer than one-third said in a 1999 poll conducted by the National Catholic Reporter that they thought church leaders should have the final say on the abortion issue. "People just don't like the idea of bishops telling them how to vote," says Philip Lawler, editor of Catholic World Report, a conservative Catholic magazine.

Undoubtedly for this reason, even Cardinal Francis George of Chicago, a prominent church conservative, stated last week that he was not ready to deny Communion to Catholic politicians who take positions on abortion rights that are contrary to church law.

Most other U.S. Catholic bishops are so far imitating George's caution — and his discretion. But the very fact that some are speaking out is evidence of a shift that may well lead to a time when Catholic politicians have to be concerned not only about the political consequences of their votes, but also the religious consequences. Which is as it should be.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: catholic; catholicpoliticians

1 posted on 04/19/2004 9:15:47 AM PDT by presidio9
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: presidio9
Any person with the true heart of the faithful,one who believes the Word of God, will not allow his/her beliefs to become comprised by the principle MAN lives by.

Politicians whose religion forbids abortion, must take the stand of the higher cause, the Godly Cause, or they betray God. A politician who will betray God will also betray the people. If Catholic politicians do not follow and live by the tenants of the Church, it is simple: They are NOT Catholic, and are weak in character as well.
2 posted on 04/19/2004 9:22:52 AM PDT by Iron Matron (Civil Disobedience? It's not just for liberals anymore!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: presidio9
The Killea/Maher experience notwithstanding, the time has long come for ALL the bishops to unite and remove these "catholic" politicos from recieving communion. There will be hysteria from the weak kneed, and the clueless anticatholics of the liberal ilk. But thinking people will realize that you can't keep trotting up for communion and claim to be a _practising_ Catholic. It's like some jerk not wanting to be circumsized and then wanting to be bar mitzvahed. SUrrrreee, these idiots are free to support abortion all they want. Just don't expect communion if you do. If the bishops had found a spine and excommunicated all these "catholic" politicians at the same time, this issue would be long past us. The politicians would either have mended their ways, or at least they'd stop mocking the eucharist by consuming it through their rotten gullets.
3 posted on 04/19/2004 9:26:07 AM PDT by gemoftheocean
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Iron Matron

4 posted on 04/19/2004 9:27:48 AM PDT by presidio9 ("See, mother, I make all things new.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: presidio9
Yeah, I saw his little ash cross.




BTW, God Himself holds Priests (any church leader) to a higher standard than the rest of us.

Priests who stray from the Word and pander to the public or to the political by ignoring Gods Holy Word and blessing those who are evil, or appear evil, well, maybe those priests ought to read up a bit, find out where they are REALLY going when they die.
5 posted on 04/19/2004 9:33:54 AM PDT by Iron Matron (Civil Disobedience? It's not just for liberals anymore!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: presidio9
In fact, it is excommunication: the denial of the church's central sacrament and hence full participation in the Catholic community.

Wrong, Charlotte. Denying Kerry the Eucharist does not deny him the Sacrament of Confession, of which he should avail himself of post haste. Besides, he's already excommunicated himself latae sententiae.


Sun Apr 18, 2:16 PM ET
Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry (news - web sites), addresses the congregation during services at the Ebenezer United Methodist Church, in Miami, Fl., Sunday, April 18, 2004. (AP Photo/Steven Senne)

6 posted on 04/19/2004 9:34:03 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: gemoftheocean
"stop mocking the Eucharist"

It seems God is being mocked by Catholic leaders, if they intentionally allow people to receive communion when there is a sin that is SO obvious, blatant and outspoken. You are to confess and turn from your sin before receiving communion. These Catholic leaders - if they do not speak up - are choosing to please man instead of God - when they do not do the right thing. No one can serve two masters, time for them to choose who they serve, God or man.
7 posted on 04/19/2004 9:38:10 AM PDT by Esther Ruth (George W. Bush - My Kids Newest Best Super Hero of ALL TIME)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: presidio9
Abortion does not make a woman "unpregnant", it makes her the mother of a dead baby.
8 posted on 04/19/2004 9:38:47 AM PDT by Big Mack (I didn't claw my way to the top of the food chain TO EAT VEGETABLES!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Sun Apr 18, 2:04 PM ET
Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry (news - web sites), D-Mass., center, stands next to U.S. Rep. Kendrick Meek, D-Fla., right, while singing during services at the Ebenezer United Methodist Church, in Miami, Fla., Sunday, April 18, 2004. (AP Photo/Steven Senne)
9 posted on 04/19/2004 9:39:18 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: presidio9
For we non-catholics - what does the church say on; capital punishment, homosexuality, and other sometimes controversial issue? Do all catholic politicians always/should follow the church's teaching on all matters?
10 posted on 04/19/2004 9:44:36 AM PDT by familyofman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: A.A. Cunningham

11 posted on 04/19/2004 9:45:36 AM PDT by presidio9 ("See, mother, I make all things new.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: familyofman
The current Pope is morally opposed to capital punishment, but the Church does not have an official stance on the matter. It officially opposes both abortion and homosexuality.
12 posted on 04/19/2004 9:51:26 AM PDT by presidio9 ("See, mother, I make all things new.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: presidio9
Kerry holds a position of great authority and seeks a higher one. He says he wants to keep church and state separate.

He "votes his conscience" on abortion in the secular world. But can he accept that within the Church, he does not have authority, but is subject to it, and bow to the dictates of the hierarchy on receiving communion?

Mrs VS
13 posted on 04/19/2004 9:54:08 AM PDT by VeritatisSplendor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: familyofman
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Abortion

2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.72

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you.73 My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth.74

2271 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law:

You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish.75 God, the Lord of life, has entrusted to men the noble mission of safeguarding life, and men must carry it out in a manner worthy of themselves. Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.76

2272 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,"77 "by the very commission of the offense,"78 and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law.79 The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.

2273 The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation:

"The inalienable rights of the person must be recognized and respected by civil society and the political authority. These human rights depend neither on single individuals nor on parents; nor do they represent a concession made by society and the state; they belong to human nature and are inherent in the person by virtue of the creative act from which the person took his origin. Among such fundamental rights one should mention in this regard every human being's right to life and physical integrity from the moment of conception until death."80

"The moment a positive law deprives a category of human beings of the protection which civil legislation ought to accord them, the state is denying the equality of all before the law. When the state does not place its power at the service of the rights of each citizen, and in particular of the more vulnerable, the very foundations of a state based on law are undermined. . . . As a consequence of the respect and protection which must be ensured for the unborn child from the moment of conception, the law must provide appropriate penal sanctions for every deliberate violation of the child's rights."81

2274 Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being.

Prenatal diagnosis is morally licit, "if it respects the life and integrity of the embryo and the human fetus and is directed toward its safe guarding or healing as an individual. . . . It is gravely opposed to the moral law when this is done with the thought of possibly inducing an abortion, depending upon the results: a diagnosis must not be the equivalent of a death sentence."82

2275 "One must hold as licit procedures carried out on the human embryo which respect the life and integrity of the embryo and do not involve disproportionate risks for it, but are directed toward its healing the improvement of its condition of health, or its individual survival."83

"It is immoral to produce human embryos intended for exploitation as disposable biological material."84

"Certain attempts to influence chromosomic or genetic inheritance are not therapeutic but are aimed at producing human beings selected according to sex or other predetermined qualities. Such manipulations are contrary to the personal dignity of the human being and his integrity and identity"85 which are unique and unrepeatable.

Capital Punishment

2266 The State's effort to contain the spread of behaviors injurious to human rights and the fundamental rules of civil coexistence corresponds to the requirement of watching over the common good. Legitimate public authority has the right and duty to inflict penalties commensurate with the gravity of the crime. The primary scope of the penalty is to redress the disorder caused by the offense. When his punishment is voluntarily accepted by the offender, it takes on the value of expiation. Moreover, punishment, in addition to preserving public order and the safety of persons, has a medicinal scope: as far as possible it should contribute to the correction of the offender.[67]

2267 The traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude, presupposing full ascertainment of the identity and responsibility of the offender, recourse to the death penalty, when this is the only practicable way to defend the lives of human beings effectively against the aggressor. "If, instead, bloodless means are sufficient to defend against the aggressor and to protect the safety of persons, public authority should limit itself to such means, because they better correspond to the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person. "Today, in fact, given the means at the State's disposal to effectively repress crime by rendering inoffensive the one who has committed it, without depriving him definitively of the possibility of redeeming himself, cases of absolute necessity for suppression of the offender 'today ... are very rare, if not practically non-existent.' [68]

14 posted on 04/19/2004 9:58:35 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: presidio9
"The current Pope is morally opposed to capital punishment, but the Church does not have an official stance on the matter. It officially opposes both abortion and homosexuality."

A catholic can be excommunicated and/or denied the sacraments (including things like last rites) for not supporting (acting in oppostion to) any/all things the church is opposed to? What is the demarcation in teachings/rules of the church that lead to denial of benefits/privilages in the church; abortion, birth control, divorce, adultery...?
15 posted on 04/19/2004 9:59:02 AM PDT by familyofman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: A.A. Cunningham
Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry (news - web sites), addresses the congregation during services at the Ebenezer United Methodist Church, in Miami, Fl., Sunday, April 18, 2004. (AP Photo/Steven Senne)

Did he also attend mass over the weekend?

16 posted on 04/19/2004 10:02:00 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic (Re-elect Dubya)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: familyofman
A catholic can be excommunicated and/or denied the sacraments (including things like last rites) for not supporting (acting in oppostion to) any/all things the church is opposed to?

Actually, the fact that Kerry and others have not been excommunicated is a pretty sign that that's not the case.

17 posted on 04/19/2004 10:02:48 AM PDT by presidio9 ("See, mother, I make all things new.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: A.A. Cunningham
"...the Catechism of the Catholic Church:"

The Catechism appears to be much more detailed, and covers an awfull lot more than just abortion than I imagined. Are the issues listed/highlighted in any manner that require the excommunication of a church member?

The point i'm trying to understand is - are there any other rules spelled out in the Catechism that are equal to abortion in their severity. It seems stem cell research might be approaching those limits, along with capital punishment when there are other social remedies available.
18 posted on 04/19/2004 10:06:17 AM PDT by familyofman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Iron Matron; presidio9
It's only a "problem" if being a Democrat trumps being a Catholic. There's no question which is more important in Kerry's mind - hence, it shouldn't bother him a whole lot to have it made official.

However, the really big problem here is that the Catholic Church has been wedded to the Democratic party for demore than a century. During the Civil War, the Democrats were the party of slavery, and cultivated Irish immigrants by "siding" with them on draft issues. ("The peace Democrats excited large audiences by warning that white men were now dying in order to equalize a lower race."- Richard Jensen)

Boss Tweed emerged from the Draft Riots (1863), and soon in all of the major metropolitan centers, the Dems could rely on Irish politicians to be their devoted servants - something that has continued to this day, over 150 years later.

The contemporary Catholic bishops, who are in their majority Irish American, are still more loyal to the Dem Party than to the Church.

(Of course, what mystifies me even more is why blacks should be under the sway of a party that hated them that much, but I guess that's a whole 'nother question.)
19 posted on 04/19/2004 10:08:18 AM PDT by livius
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: presidio9
"...the fact that Kerry and others have not been excommunicated is a pretty sign that that's not the case."

Do rules that are not applied really equal rules? Selective application of a set of rules makes the enforcement of those rules seem fickle.
20 posted on 04/19/2004 10:09:57 AM PDT by familyofman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: familyofman
Since you are so interested, why don't you go look "Excommunication" in the Catholic Encyclopedia, and then come back here and tell us what the official "rule" is and the guidelines for enforcement.
21 posted on 04/19/2004 10:12:32 AM PDT by presidio9 ("See, mother, I make all things new.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

Comment #23 Removed by Moderator

To: sartorius
Kerry did get his first marriage annulled, but he was not married to Theresa by a priest.
24 posted on 04/19/2004 10:45:57 AM PDT by presidio9 ("See, mother, I make all things new.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

Comment #25 Removed by Moderator

To: presidio9
Is the picture on the right in your post of Kerry at the communion rail? Wasn't that Palm Sunday? Wasn't he attending a Baptist church that day? Why would he present himself for communion in a Baptist church? Is he uneducated in matters of the Catholic faith? Does he no longer believe in the Real Presence of our Lord in the Eucharist? It would appear that the answer to these questions is yes, but somebody else please help me out!

Yesterday at Mass I was feeling the conviction to pray for Kerry. I hope he changes his ways soon, for his sake!
26 posted on 04/19/2004 11:03:56 AM PDT by Ohioan from Florida (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.- Edmund Burke)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: presidio9
Kerry did get his first marriage annulled, but he was not married to Theresa by a priest.

Yes, I believe that it why he is for "civil unions." (sarcasm!!!)

27 posted on 04/19/2004 11:05:38 AM PDT by Gerish
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Ohioan from Florida
I believe the picture you are referring to on Palm Sunday was an AME church in Boston.
28 posted on 04/19/2004 11:09:08 AM PDT by Aliska
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: livius
The contemporary Catholic bishops, who are in their majority Irish American, are still more loyal to the Dem Party than to the Church.

(Of course, what mystifies me even more is why blacks should be under the sway of a party that hated them that much, but I guess that's a whole 'nother question.)




So the majority of irishmen have chosen man over God. WHat a shame. The Catholic Bishops it seems, are no longer doing Gods work in this world - they have changed sides.

I think it's pretty easy to understand the black viewpoint when it comes to the democrat party. The democrats, by providing hand-outs and excuses for black america, have one the heart of the "welfare" black. Is it my imagination or are the larger % of educated blacks Republican?
29 posted on 04/19/2004 11:13:14 AM PDT by Iron Matron (Civil Disobedience? It's not just for liberals anymore!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Aliska
Thanks. It still is puzzling why he would present himself for communion at ANY Protestant church. He should know better, and probably does...but he obviously doesn't care about that any more than consistently voting for abortion rights under any circumstance. This man has no conscience if he can do this. I hope to God we don't have another president who has no conscience. This country is going downhill fast if we end up with another. God will be ashamed of us.
30 posted on 04/19/2004 11:15:40 AM PDT by Ohioan from Florida (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.- Edmund Burke)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Ohioan from Florida

Kerry's spokesman said he was trying to avoid insulting anybody. I forgot to post the picture of him actually committing what the Catholic religion says is a mortal sin. But then, that doesn't matter, because for Kerry, Catholicism means whatever he says it does. Isn't that just super?

31 posted on 04/19/2004 11:22:02 AM PDT by presidio9 ("See, mother, I make all things new.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Ohioan from Florida
Some people seem to be like that. If it were me, I couldn't sleep at night, knowing I had willfully disregarded the clear teachings of my faith in such a public, blatant manner.

I suppose one could argue that it would appear ungracious to refuse the hospitality of another church by declining to receive their "sacraments".

It doesn't appear that he has real faith in anything other than himself. Maybe he doesn't have much faith in himself but depends on money to get him where he wants to go. Yet people like him would be the first to jump on others like he did Bush from the pulpit of the Baptist Church in St. Louis. In his view, rules apply only to the ignorant masses.

The Catholic Church will suffer if it continues to allow this sham.

And the country needs to jump on politicians who speak from pulpits of churches; it just is not right. He is the one touting separation of church and state. He is welcome in any assembly as an ordinary worshipper/assembler/dissembler, but climbing into a pulpit is just plain wrong.

32 posted on 04/19/2004 11:29:53 AM PDT by Aliska
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: presidio9
Kerry's spokesman said he was trying to avoid insulting anybody.

And by so doing he insulted a lot of his fellow catholics.

There are other ways situations such as this could have been handled. Those people he is photographed with would not be welcome to receive communion in the catholic church. There is a blurb in the missalette explaining why. I wonder if they realize that?

33 posted on 04/19/2004 11:34:59 AM PDT by Aliska
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Aliska
If the they you're referring to means the people in the photograph, they probably don't, but that shouldn't be held against them. If they haven't received instruction in the Catholic faith, they probably wouldn't know. Kerry, however, should, especially because I've heard over and over again, that besides being in Vietnam, he was an altar boy in his youth. Didn't he learn anything from that Catholic upbringing of his? Are his parents still alive, or any siblings? I wonder what they think of this behavior.
34 posted on 04/19/2004 11:45:17 AM PDT by Ohioan from Florida (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.- Edmund Burke)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Aliska
Catholics: lurch says he is "one of us". If you don't agree go to catholicsagainstkerry.com and help us stop this fake phoney fraud.
35 posted on 04/19/2004 11:49:30 AM PDT by jmaroneps37 ( Kerry's not "one of us": catholicagainstkerry.com. needs your help.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: presidio9
(A Davis spokesman responded that the bishop was "telling the faithful how to practice their faith" and that the governor would continue to take Communion.)

Hey, stupid - that's his job! What a maroon!

36 posted on 04/19/2004 11:49:49 AM PDT by Shethink13
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Ohioan from Florida
but that shouldn't be held against them.

No, of course not. I find it somewhat ironic though.

Whatever upbringing he had in the catholic faith appears to be little more than using it for political and social advantage.

37 posted on 04/19/2004 11:59:03 AM PDT by Aliska
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: presidio9
Ironically, Kerry and Edward M. Kennedy, Massachusetts's other Catholic Democratic senator and also a supporter of abortion rights, received the sacrament at the archbishop's installation Mass last July.

I wouldn't use the word, "ironic."

The bishops' cowardice is disgusting.

38 posted on 04/19/2004 12:18:45 PM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: familyofman
For we non-catholics - what does the church say on; capital punishment, homosexuality, and other sometimes controversial issue? Do all catholic politicians always/should follow the church's teaching on all matters?

The dividing line is drawn over intrinsic evils like abortion, homosexual marriage, etc. Issues like capital punishment are a matter for prudential judgement and statesmanship, since capital punishment isn't intrinsically evil.

Interestingly, the directive is based on the natural law (which is written on the human heart) and not on any specifically Catholic teaching.

39 posted on 04/19/2004 12:24:20 PM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: presidio9
Kerry distinguishes between what he calls his personal opposition to abortion and his legislative support of unrestricted abortion.

It's called trying to have it both ways and it's not new. It's cowardice.

40 posted on 04/19/2004 12:25:37 PM PDT by Lost Highway (The things of earth will grow strangely dim in the light of his glory and grace.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: afraidfortherepublic
Unlikely. If he had then the press would have been notified by one of his lackeys.
41 posted on 04/19/2004 12:27:33 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: familyofman
Selective application of a set of rules makes the enforcement of those rules seem fickle.

The canonical penalty of excommunication is applied for pastoral reasons. The object of excommunication is to awaken the sinner to the fact that he is committing a grievous sin, or advocating an evil, and so is placing himself outside of the Church. So the application of the penalty is a matter of prudential judgement.

42 posted on 04/19/2004 12:29:52 PM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: presidio9
According to the Catholic League there is no proof, and Kerry hasn't provided any, that an annulment was granted.
43 posted on 04/19/2004 12:33:20 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: presidio9
He should be refused the Eucharist also based on his marital situation, divorced and remarried (no annullment), as well.
44 posted on 04/19/2004 9:06:59 PM PDT by TOUGH STOUGH (A vote for president Bush IS a vote for principle.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: presidio9
I disagree with the title of the article. The choices are simple in that the righteousness of the choices are clear. Unfortunately, it's the politics behind the choices that complicate matters for our leaders.
45 posted on 04/19/2004 9:11:24 PM PDT by TOUGH STOUGH (A vote for president Bush IS a vote for principle.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson