Records on medals spark questions

Washington Times ^ | 4/22/04 | Charles Hurt

[kattracks]

The military records that Sen. John Kerry posted on his Web site yesterday raise new questions about the actions he took to earn several prestigious war medals and whether he deserved them.

The Navy awarded Mr. Kerry three Purple Hearts, a Silver Star and a Bronze Star in just four months of commanding a gunboat along rivers in Vietnam. It's an extraordinary record, say many veterans, and one that raises questions on its face.

[farmfriend]

Another barfo. Here is to the vets with real honor.

[Texas Eagle]

Having never served in the military I would like to know from those who have whether or not it is standard operating procedure for a soldier to submit him or herself for medals.

[america-rules]

" "His Bronze Star medal citation appears to be based on an injury he did not receive," said Mr. Kaufman, who now lives in Germany. "His arm was not bleeding. If the paperwork had said, 'Kerry had a bruised arm,' I wonder if he would have been given this medal for bravery?" "

This would be a good TV spot if Bush had to get really dirty !

[Waco]

Clearly Kerry was "gaming the sysem", probably all planned well before he got to Asia.

[risk]

Here is to the vets with real honor. I agree, and thanks for making the point so well.

[Sareln]

How very interesting, this seems to jive more with the type of man John Kerry has demonstrated himself to be... rather than the macho image the campaign is trying to put forward for Joe average.

[NRA2BFree]

Poor baby scratched himself and put in for medals. The big sissy, he's NO hero. He's a joke. I can't wait to see the Bush campaign make the ad for this one. It will be hilarious, no doubt. ;-)

[bolobaby]

Having never served in the military I would like to know from those who have whether or not it is standard operating procedure for a soldier to submit him or herself for medals.

Anyone with knowledge of an event warranting a medal can submit a 638-1 to recommend the medal. The command structure can either approval the medal, deny it, or recommend an alternate award. Submission usually does not include the soldier being recommended for the medal. In fact, I have never heard of such a thing in all my military service.

[stylin19a]

Superhuman" is how Ray Waller, a combat medic in the Marines, described Mr. Kerry's record of awards.

Marines have Navy Corpsmen. Maybe the writer got confused ?

[sinktheslimes]

it is very clear that KERRY GAMED THE SYSTEM...he knew the 4 purple heart rule that would allow him to "get out of virtnam early"...unlike bush jr, he was a far better planner of a politcal career...and he spent the least amount of time to gain the PC he now uses...

to me, having served during the same time, kerry used his intelligence to figure out a scheme to get credit and medals and get the hell out...others who died were left behind who had far more serious wounds but had a GREATER OBLIGATION TO THE TROOPS under their command...BUT NOT "wrong way" kerry

his career after he left vietnam shows the coward he is when it comes to defending the memory of those who died and were injured in nam...he hates the military and his votes prove it...

he took a medal he didnt deserve and he took risks to GET OUT EARLY it was as well planned as CLINTON risks with monica...and if the truth is examined he didnt have the moral right to leave nam in 16 weeks when everyone else left after 52 weeks

sadly bush jr and his party girl daughters conduct isnt mush better...but at least bush has developed a moral backbone while kerry wont acknowledge the truth

[NRA2BFree]

This speaks volumes about the character of John Kerry. He has NO honor. NO class. He did all of that so he could get out of Viet Nam early. He's definitely NO war hero.

[claudiustg]

There's the kind of person who will push themselves forward for every honor, promotion, or choice assignment and there's the kind of person who's mission oriented and will insist that others are more deserving than themselves.

I think we all now know what kind of person Kerry is, but it would be interesting to know what kind of honors his subordinates received during the same period.

[america-rules]

"Having never served in the military I would like to know from those who have whether or not it is standard operating procedure for a soldier to submit him or herself for medals."

I served 21 years and we used to call these people Golden Boys. They were usually dangerous to others but would get someone else to sign off on the paper work.

I was told several times that I had to write my own medal and I refused every time and it probably hurt me in the long run. I did write hundreds and approved hundreds to be sent up the chain because a Col or higher had to approve them. For a bronze star they went way up the chain to a 3 or 4 star and took six months to get approved.

There's something not quite right with Kerry's medals. His citation said he was bleeding and if he wasn't he wouldn't get the medal so if the record shows he wasn't bleeding it was fixed!

By fixed I mean the citation had to justify the medal and someone was told to justify it or Kerry wrote it himself and lied. When this happens it's written with alot more heroism etc. then what actually happened.

Just FYI: Medals are usually approved by what the citation says and some commanders will require one or two pages with details as an attachment. I have no idea what the Navy policy was back then.

[wireplay]

I'm a little leery about posting this but....

On my wall is a Purple Heart. Received by Thomas Henry Churchill for a shot to the head. Above the Purple Heart is a memorial picture. For someone to claim that a scratch deserves this medal is a dishonor to all those that served.

A Purple Heart is not a trophy. It is a memorium for those that suffered and those that lost.

[Anti-Bubba182]

"...Mr. Kerry still refused to release medical records that more thoroughly describe the injuries..."

That is all you need to know. There is no reasonable explaination for this except the injuries were so trivial that they make a mockery of his Purple Heart awards.

[KellyAdmirer]

So Kerry, who was anti-war before he ever went to Vietnam, decides that if he has to go, why not get as much out of it for himself as possible and put himself in for medals every chance he gets. Given a flaw in the medal-awarding procedure wherein he could recommend himself for his own medals, he got away with it in record time. Then, just to make sure everyone will get the point later, he - this is the brilliant part - actually goes back to the spots shortly thereafter and FILMS HIMSELF RE-ENACTING THE INCIDENTS! This sets himself up for either a post-war career as war-hero, or innoculates himself against being called unpatriotic if, as he truly felt, he wanted to build his political career on opposition to the war. Apparently, he tried the former, and when that didn't work out, went to plan B and was wildly successful with it.

Pretty neat. Slimey and revolting, but neat.

[jnarcus]

reminds me of Frank Burns character on MASH...put in for a purple heart over a paper cut...what a maroon

[LdSentinal]

Senator Boo-Boo.

[kimosabe31]

Kerry is a phoney. I barf at the notion he could become president. Military records and Kerry's behavior after returning from Nam all support the conclusion that he's
a manipulating puke. He should stick to being theresa's cabana boy.

[SAMWolf]

The closest Kerry has ever been to a Hero is a sandwich he ate once. Listen to or read interviews with real heroes, they sound nothing like the self-proclamied hero Kerry professes to be.

[GretchenM]

bush jr and his party girl daughters conduct isnt mush better

Has anyone checked into the lives of John Kerry's offspring?

[GretchenM]

he - this is the brilliant part - actually goes back to the spots shortly thereafter and FILMS HIMSELF RE-ENACTING THE INCIDENTS! This sets himself up for either a post-war career as war-hero, or innoculates himself against being called unpatriotic

Or admits to some borderline psychosis or other mental condition.

Think about it.

[Ruth A.]

Former Navy wife here. Yes, it is quite common. Those in the line of command can get lots of awards and ignore or insure that lower awards are given to anyone under them who did the actual work.

[justrepublican]

John"Frank Burns" Kerry. I like it.

[sinktheslimes]

this is to show that both used intelligence but kerry used subterfuge based upon what i read and based upon the way people served...the idea of "getting out of jail free" shows kerrys monopoly attitudes...he beat the system and did so in a way that made him look he served with the higest moral standards...which is now QUESTIONABLE...

the idea that bush wasnt thinking about his career when he fell into abuse of alcohol, and when he tolerates his daughters well publized alholocial episodes, is his moral issues...but to his character, he owned up and changed his life while kerry carries out the 33 yr old lie about his 16 weeks in nam...what is kerrys obligation to all those who served their entire 13 month tour of duty when he found a loophole

[#3Fan]

Doesn't look to me like Joe Sixpack is all that impressed.

[MEG33]

Indeed..

[GretchenM]

I keep up with the news (thank you, JimRob, Drudge, and the Internet in general) and it seems to me that the Bush's were very discreet and nonpublic in the way they dealt with Barbara and Jenna's underage drinking, not sweeping it under the rug but letting them take the legal consequences. I don't think Bush has tolerated his daughters' well publicized alcohol episodes. I think he came down on them -- being a former drinker and knowing how damaging such a course can be -- but that we didn't hear anything about the specifics.

[sinktheslimes]

they were the parents who didnt set the right example...country club methodist tolerance...the republican version...maybe kerrys kids got a pass...maybe they didnt...but for heinzs kids to support kerry is an affront to their deceased father and it shows the liberalism of their dumb white african mother and their devotion to her new life

[MEG33]

I am always happy to know we have perfection represented on this board.

[sasportas]

Thanks for your analysis. I think you are right on. It is beginning to look like we have got a creep even worse than Clinton on our hands - if such a thing is possible.

One description comes to mind, summarizes this man, he's a rank opportunist.

[sinktheslimes]

like many women, its far easier to excuse away the conduct of kids when you think you need to work rather than work as a mom.....feminazis always want to be rewarded like cheneys wife ,...whose daughter turned out to be a immoral retrograde...far more democrats are guilty of child ignorance but republicans arent above criticism...

[MEG33]

I was a stay at home mom,my children were stay at home moms.You seem to have it all figured out.I congratulate you.

I was commenting on your throwing stones,not approving of the underage drinking.

[sinktheslimes]

that no one should throw stones is what women think will protect them from evil...it is simply illogical to think that accountability is excused...but mothers always want to defend what happens to their kids..i applaud your remaining a real mom but not if you imbue your kids with the naive notion there is no such thing as accountability, and rules and evil people who will take advantage of naive people...you dont enjoy security without men who defend you by calling spades spades and terrorist arabs slime

[MEG33]

What ever makes you think I didn't teach my children accountability or that with certain actions,they will see certain reactions,from me.

My children,like many children, had to learn some lessons the hard way.I am not perfect nor did I raise perfect children.I am very proud of how they turned out.

[Bob]

...it would have been a soldier inferior to Mr. Kerry

Bravo Sierra!! A soldier may have very well been junior to him but he was in no freakin' way inferior to him.

[sinktheslimes]

so its OK for you to throw stones for educational purposes but you wish to restrict me ? thats the point...the very best thing to make crybaby minorities improve is to criticize them as harshly as possible...so throwing stones is a good thing, not something to be jumped on as Pilitically incorrect...the minorities were far better citizens when they could be mimiked as bad citizens, democrat or republican...

[Tallguy]

I believe that Kerry did "game" the military awards procedure with a goal toward achieving an "early out". While I think Kerry is pretty intelligent, he must have had advice as to how to do this. My guess is that this occurred while he was serving on the USS Gridley. Relatively safe duty, but destined to serve the full tour.

Somebody told him to get into Swift boats. If he was really looking for action why didn't he go for PBR's? Probably because the Swifts were, at the time of Kerry's transfer, operating along the coast and in the deeper delta estuaries -- Kerry probably interpreted this as dangerous, but not TOO dangerous.

Who was Kerry 'tight' with on the USS Gridley?

[sr4402]

It isn't his war record we should be focusing on, but his anti-war record.

Hanoi John is being Kerried by the press. This focus on his medals is a dodge.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

ping

[NCC-1701]

Since being in the military is now the job experience needed for the presidency of the United States, I believe we should see the COMPLETE military records of bill clinton. To have been elected twice, e must have been a military genius . Release them now.

[Destro]

The WT is not a widely read paper - and is pretty much looked down on (unfairly or not mostly because they are owned by the Moonie cult) as a partisan paper. They are really the only ones questioning Kerry's medals.

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

Hanoi Kerry at his "moment of glory."
What a piece of ******
The media WILL NOT mention this book.
I will!
The cover is a insult to Iwo Jima vets,
then it gets worse towards Viet Nam vets.
I was there the same time Hanoi Kerry was.
I served on a Destroyer which supplied PBR's
and gave gunfire support in North AND South Viet Nam.
My ship may have even supplied Hanoi Kerry's boat.
I VOW I will do everything I LEGALLY can
to keep this traitor from being elected.
I owe it to those who gave their all.

[#3Fan]

You've done a good job at totally throwing this thread totally off subject. Can't you find a Bush-daughters-bashing thread to post on?

[#3Fan]

The WT is not a widely read paper - and is pretty much looked down on (unfairly or not mostly because they are owned by the Moonie cult) as a partisan paper. They are really the only ones questioning Kerry's medals.

The Washington Times is not read? You're full of it.

[Bernard Marx]

I like "Paper-Cut Kerry" better.

[Destro]

I did not say the WT was not read - I said "The WT is not a widely read paper".

The circulation of the WT is very low. It is not even in the top 100. http://www.infoplease.com/ipea/A0004420.html

[F16Fighter]

An RNC-led proctological exam will reveal FRAUD.

[TruBluKentuckian]

"The closest Kerry has ever been to a Hero is a sandwich he ate once. Listen to or read interviews with real heroes, they sound nothing like the self-proclamied hero Kerry professes to be."

You are so right about that. I watched Band of Brothers on the History Channel last week, along with the accompaning documentary about the survivors, We Stand Alone Together. In the documentary the survivors, to a man, all said that they weren't heros, the real heros were the ones that didn't come home. Not a one of them believed they were a hero and they didn't talk like heros.

I found it all very emotional and the contrast between them and Kerry is very telling.