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Kerry Bronze Star Certificate signature questioned. Investigation warranted?
Kerry's PDF Military Files on his Website ^ | 4-15-04 | me

Posted on 04/22/2004 10:49:24 AM PDT by moondoggie

How come the paperwork on Kerry's Bronze Star Award is signed by John Lehman, Sec. of the Navy????

In addition, the date Lehman (supposedly) signed it is not on the document.

Did Kerry not get the award when Chaffee was Secretary of the Navy? If not, why not?

Did Kerry get the award 15 years late?

Or is the paperwork a "sham" and somebody made a big booboo?

I'll post the document as soon as I find it again. Maybe somebody here has it bookmarked? And, if there's already been a thread on this that I missed....please direct me to the proper thread.

Thanks!


TOPICS: Extended News; Government; Politics/Elections; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: bronzestar; johnlehman; kerry; militaryrecord
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1 posted on 04/22/2004 10:49:30 AM PDT by moondoggie
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To: moondoggie
Good catch! BUMP
2 posted on 04/22/2004 10:50:37 AM PDT by Tijeras_Slim (From each according to his inability, to each according to his misdeeds - DNC Motto)
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To: moondoggie
I was wondering the same thing but perhaps the Navy does things differently than the Army.
3 posted on 04/22/2004 10:52:02 AM PDT by Wu
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To: Tijeras_Slim
It would be interesting to hear what the rest of his boat crew thought about this citation and the discription of Kerry's actions
4 posted on 04/22/2004 11:00:14 AM PDT by hetzman
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To: moondoggie
For those who don't see the issue, here are the dates of service for these two secretaries of the NAVY:

31 Jan 1969 - 4 May 1972 John H. Chafee
5 Feb 1981 - 10 Apr 1987 John Lehman
5 posted on 04/22/2004 11:05:56 AM PDT by Frank_Discussion (May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather!)
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To: moondoggie
I assume you are referring to the actual citation. Both his Bronze Star and Silver Star citations bear the same signature of the Secretary of the Navy, and neither is dated. At first glance, the signatures do appear to read "John Lehman" (who of course did not become Secretary of the Navy until the 1980s) but they could also be "John Chaffee," who I believe was Secretary at the time Kerry served in Vietnam. I imagine the signatures of both Secretaries can easily be found in the public record somewhere and that this question can be answered pretty easily.
6 posted on 04/22/2004 11:10:50 AM PDT by blau993 (Labs for love; .357 for Security.)
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To: 4mer Liberal
ping
7 posted on 04/22/2004 11:12:32 AM PDT by T Minus Four
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To: moondoggie
http://www.johnkerry.com/about/military_records.html
8 posted on 04/22/2004 11:19:36 AM PDT by Lokibob (All typos and spelling errors are mine and copyrighted!!!!)
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To: Lokibob
Tinfoil activated: if that signature is Chaffee's, he obviously must have thought his name was Lehman.
9 posted on 04/22/2004 11:25:31 AM PDT by Mr. Bird (Ain't the beer cold!)
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To: Frank_Discussion
Sure looks like Le to me
10 posted on 04/22/2004 11:25:40 AM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (Believe nothing you hear and half of what you see.)
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To: Conspiracy Guy
I concur. This is an interesting turn of events, truly. Unless the document WAS issued at least a decade after the event, then this is an outright forgery. MAN, I want to know just what the h*ll is going on here!
11 posted on 04/22/2004 11:30:42 AM PDT by Frank_Discussion (May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather!)
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To: Conspiracy Guy
I will await the explaination from Kerrys camp that the first letter is in fact a "C" and not an "L" as it appears. Its Lehman! I have a similar spelling of my last name where I "tail off" like Lehman does.
12 posted on 04/22/2004 11:30:59 AM PDT by crz
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To: moondoggie
Why is Zumwalt's full name, rank, title given under is signature on page one, but on page two only "Secretary of the Navy" appears below the signature, which clearly starts out with LeH and then to a scribble line.
13 posted on 04/22/2004 11:32:40 AM PDT by Phantom Lord (Distributor of Pain, Your Loss Becomes My Gain)
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To: moondoggie
Ask Senator Yogi about Senator John F'ing Boo Boo's Record Of Neosporin Heroics:
14 posted on 04/22/2004 11:33:58 AM PDT by My Favorite Headache (Rush 30th Anniversary Tour Tickets On Sale Now!)
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To: Frank_Discussion
The press will get their FREE PASS Stamp out and that will be the end of it. Kerry supporters don't want to hear truth, fact, or anything else. They hate Bush so much they'd vote for Osama Bin Laden first.
15 posted on 04/22/2004 11:36:30 AM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (Believe nothing you hear and half of what you see.)
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To: crz
It is an L. For sure
16 posted on 04/22/2004 11:37:19 AM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (Believe nothing you hear and half of what you see.)
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To: moondoggie
The military was giving out retirement certificates with clintons signature for two years after Bush was President. They use pre printed certs with digital signatures and maybe Kerry's Medal is something like this?
17 posted on 04/22/2004 11:37:31 AM PDT by america-rules (It's US or THEM so what part don't you understand ?)
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To: moondoggie
This kinda looks like Lehman:


18 posted on 04/22/2004 11:39:48 AM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer (The democRATS are near the tipping point.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
Could smeone please post the related documents, my puter and adobe do not like each other for some reason.
19 posted on 04/22/2004 11:43:31 AM PDT by eastforker (The color of justice is green,just ask Johny Cochran!)
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To: Phantom Lord
Which doc?
20 posted on 04/22/2004 11:43:34 AM PDT by Frank_Discussion (May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather!)
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To: Frank_Discussion
This one
21 posted on 04/22/2004 11:46:05 AM PDT by Phantom Lord (Distributor of Pain, Your Loss Becomes My Gain)
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To: Phantom Lord
Wait! I see what you mean, on the doc in question. Disregard my question, please.
22 posted on 04/22/2004 11:46:56 AM PDT by Frank_Discussion (May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather!)
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To: america-rules
wrong time direction
23 posted on 04/22/2004 11:49:22 AM PDT by firebrand
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
It looks more like this guy:
24 posted on 04/22/2004 11:49:58 AM PDT by Frank_Discussion (May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather!)
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To: moondoggie
Sure looks like an "Le" to me.
25 posted on 04/22/2004 11:50:38 AM PDT by Republican Red ("I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it,")
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To: Frank_Discussion
It's definitely this guy ...
26 posted on 04/22/2004 11:55:17 AM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer (The democRATS are near the tipping point.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
lol!! That's gross!
27 posted on 04/22/2004 11:58:20 AM PDT by Frank_Discussion (May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather!)
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To: All
Welp....we all seem to agree that the name looks more like "Lehman" than "Chaffee". And....aren't most government documents dated when signed???

Anyway, how do we get to the bottom of this and is it important in the larger scheme of things or not?

I just hate to see ole "Chisel Face" pull a fast one if this documentation is not legit!

28 posted on 04/22/2004 11:59:59 AM PDT by moondoggie
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To: Frank_Discussion
I'm serious, though. The pic I popped up is of Sec. Chaffee, and I can see the medal-pinning pic as him from behind and as a younger man. It certainly isn't Lehman circa 1981 or later, J'Effin would be too old for that at that point.
29 posted on 04/22/2004 12:00:38 PM PDT by Frank_Discussion (May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather!)
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To: moondoggie
"...is it important in the larger scheme of things or not?"

You bet your brass monkeys it's important! One, he may be lying about his record for political gain. Two, he may be forging FEDERAL DOCUMENTS!
30 posted on 04/22/2004 12:02:53 PM PDT by Frank_Discussion (May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather!)
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To: moondoggie
Sure doesn't look like a Chaffee. Been awhile since I've been in school, but I think thats how I was taught to make an 'L'


31 posted on 04/22/2004 12:08:56 PM PDT by Bommer (John Kerry = "You mean I can get a Purple Heart for cutting myself shaving?")
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To: Bommer
Could his service been revued ten years later and then the medal awarded? I know Kerry ain't all that bright but could he be this stupid?
32 posted on 04/22/2004 12:19:29 PM PDT by eastforker (The color of justice is green,just ask Johny Cochran!)
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To: eastforker
The IQ for high-functioning Libs has been dropping steadily over the decades... But you have a hard time hearing such idiocy reported.

You would think this would be too big to ignore.
33 posted on 04/22/2004 12:27:39 PM PDT by Frank_Discussion (May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather!)
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To: moondoggie
Bump to tee off a liberal later today.
34 posted on 04/22/2004 12:38:42 PM PDT by aimhigh
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To: eastforker
Only way to truly confirm is to find a signature of John H. Chaffee and compare. If true, this would be HUGE! So far I've had no luck! Start searching!
35 posted on 04/22/2004 12:39:16 PM PDT by Bommer (John Kerry = "You mean I can get a Purple Heart for cutting myself shaving?")
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To: moondoggie
Perhaps a request for a replacement of a lost original was made in the '80's? Otherwise, what gives?
36 posted on 04/22/2004 12:44:39 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad (x = x + 1)
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To: eastforker

Would the Navy have awarded a medal 10 years later AFTER JF'nK threw his other medals over the White House fence and called his fellow servicemen war criminals? This can't be true...
37 posted on 04/22/2004 12:46:20 PM PDT by kittymyrib
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To: moondoggie; eastforker
THIS IS INTERESTING

I took both Kerry's Silver Star and Bronze star Citation papers. I copied them into Photoshop. I took both pages and lined them up and took the translucentcy down and lined up just the signatures, which is why the rest is blurry. The signatures (assuming they aren't a rubber stamp are identical


38 posted on 04/22/2004 12:52:46 PM PDT by Bommer (John Kerry = "You mean I can get a Purple Heart for cutting myself shaving?")
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To: Bommer
I did some Google searches trying to find copies of Lehman or Chaffee signatures and had no luck. Perhaps others more proficient than I might do better. Or, perhaps some of our highly decorated Freeper brethren who have citations signed by Lehman or Chaffee can answer the question for us.
39 posted on 04/22/2004 1:09:10 PM PDT by blau993 (Labs for love; .357 for Security.)
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To: moondoggie
Good catch!!!
40 posted on 04/22/2004 1:10:45 PM PDT by jcb8199
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To: Bommer
Hmmph. That is interesting. Probably just a rubber stamp.
41 posted on 04/22/2004 1:20:35 PM PDT by new cruelty
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To: blau993
SOMEBODY, PLEASE!! Mirror the site, get copies of the docs, don't let 'em disappear! This gaffe will get back to J'Effin's campaign, and they might yank the data, don't let them.

I, too, tried to find some other sig examples for Lehman and Chaffee, to no avail. Yet.
42 posted on 04/22/2004 1:22:06 PM PDT by Frank_Discussion (May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather!)
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To: Bommer
Sonuvagun!
43 posted on 04/22/2004 1:22:53 PM PDT by Frank_Discussion (May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather!)
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To: Bommer
hmmmmmmmm.... good work..


Isn't that usualy a sure sign of a forgery?

(unless it is a stamp or signing machine)
44 posted on 04/22/2004 1:26:20 PM PDT by Mr. K (`,,`,,I stole this cuz its funny,,`,,`))
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To: All
His middle initial is L, so:

John L ch~~~

I kinda do the same thing to my signature...

Æ
45 posted on 04/22/2004 1:26:22 PM PDT by AgentEcho (If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers)
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To: AgentEcho
No, his middle initial is "H" for Hubbard.
46 posted on 04/22/2004 1:32:19 PM PDT by avg_freeper (Gunga galunga. Gunga, gunga galunga)
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To: avg_freeper
Sorry, I thought it was an L and found references to it being L. I stand corrected.
47 posted on 04/22/2004 1:37:15 PM PDT by AgentEcho (If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers)
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To: AgentEcho
No problem. This is his full name:
John (Lester) H(ubbard) Chafee

48 posted on 04/22/2004 1:39:20 PM PDT by avg_freeper (Gunga galunga. Gunga, gunga galunga)
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To: avg_freeper
Well fine, if that's the case then :

Joh~ L h c~~~
49 posted on 04/22/2004 1:42:09 PM PDT by AgentEcho (If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers)
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To: AgentEcho
Nevermind, I hit POST before I saw the error. I'm an idiot.
50 posted on 04/22/2004 1:43:11 PM PDT by AgentEcho (If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers)
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