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McGreevey: Church wrong to dictate to Catholic politicians
NJ.COM ^

Posted on 04/23/2004 5:10:47 PM PDT by Sub-Driver

Edited on 07/06/2004 6:39:39 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

TRENTON, N.J. (AP) Gov. James E. McGreevey said he loves his Catholic faith and will continue to practice it, but church leaders are wrong to tell him and other politicians not to support abortion rights.

Church opinions like the one issued Friday by the Vatican force American Catholics to chose between obeying their religion and practicing politics, McGreevey said.


(Excerpt) Read more at nj.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; US: New Jersey
KEYWORDS: abortionlist; catholic; catholiclist; catholicpoliticians; homosexualagenda; mcgreevey; newjersey; nj; politicians; prolife
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but he loves his democrat party more....
1 posted on 04/23/2004 5:10:47 PM PDT by Sub-Driver
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To: Sub-Driver
plus no one can tell a politician anything.
2 posted on 04/23/2004 5:12:19 PM PDT by Loyal Buckeye ((Kerry is a flake))
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To: Sub-Driver
Abandon all hope, Governor, you and everyone like you is damned to a hell fire of gloom and despair for all eternity if you don't repent.
3 posted on 04/23/2004 5:17:27 PM PDT by Ronly Bonly Jones (killing innocent people is not a hobby that anyone should take up)
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To: Sub-Driver
If he wants to follow his "own voice" on issues of fundamental Church Doctrine and the killing of babies, then he should just become a Protestant, maybe an Anglican/Episcopalian, and quit polluting the Community of Saints.

The arrogance of these people is beyond belief.
4 posted on 04/23/2004 5:19:02 PM PDT by vanmorrison
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To: Sub-Driver
Is it wrong for politicians to dictate to religions. McGreevey had a priest forcibly kicked out of a Catholic church. McGreevey stages his campaign events at churches.
5 posted on 04/23/2004 5:20:31 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: Sub-Driver
Gov. James E. McGreevey is a first class hypocrite. I attend a Christian Missionary Church and fully believe in what it teaches. Those that don't are free to depart at any time, but to date the numbers are increasing. Our bible is the standard one, and anyone that can't read the Lords directive on homo's and the Ten Commandments is in sorry shape indeed. Me thinks Kerry like Clinton is a "for show" Christian.
6 posted on 04/23/2004 5:21:13 PM PDT by Joee
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To: Sub-Driver
To Catholics, the Eucharist represents the body and blood of Jesus

That's not what I was taught. The Eucharist is the body and blood.

7 posted on 04/23/2004 5:21:52 PM PDT by Mannaggia l'America
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To: vanmorrison
McGreevey is really not welcome in ANY Protestant organization for the simple reason that deep down inside he's a bigot. You can tell that from the way he mindlessly clings to his mother's church. It's certainly not based on any profound understanding of Christian theology.

He should have a "come to Jesus" moment with a Bishop or two and be given the choice ~ be a Catholic, or get out.

8 posted on 04/23/2004 5:22:32 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Sub-Driver; Coleus
"I love my faith," McGreevey said Friday. "But as governor, I have a basic moral obligation to govern in a Democratic, civil, inclusive society."

McGreevey wouldn't know a basic moral obligation if it hit him in his face. He may very well be the most corrupt politician in the most corrupt state in the Union. And even in this highly Democrat majority state, his approval ratings are far below 40%.

9 posted on 04/23/2004 5:23:38 PM PDT by Cagey
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To: Joee
Clinton, Kerry, McGreevey....all CINO's - Christian in name only. Meanwhile McGreevey lays the "position" on abortion as one that comes from his church. Bottom line is, God had already spoken on the matter....long before there was a Catholic church. Woe unto those who only believe in God....but refuse to believe God.
10 posted on 04/23/2004 5:24:04 PM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: Sub-Driver
One bright note about McGreevey. A few months ago he endorsed Howard Dean.
11 posted on 04/23/2004 5:25:53 PM PDT by Cagey
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To: Sub-Driver
In all fairness, the Bishops would set a better example if they cleaned up this same problem in Catholic Institution.

Here is another real outrage, taking place at Seton Hall Law School on Friday, April 16, 2004. U.S. Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, who is notoriously pro-abortion and voted to strike down the partial-birth abortion laws of more than 30 states, is presenting the annual "Sandra Day O'Connor Medal of Honor" to Judge Maryanne Trump Barry of the U.S. Court of Appeals, the pro-abortion author of the opinion striking down the New Jersey partial-birth abortion statute. "

12 posted on 04/23/2004 5:28:15 PM PDT by ex-snook (Glory to You, Word of God, Lord Jesus Christ.)
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To: Sub-Driver
Yea just what the heck does a priest know about moral issues? Obviously the right onerous NJ gov know better of such things.
13 posted on 04/23/2004 5:29:02 PM PDT by SERE_DOC ("9 out of the 10 voices in my head told me to go home & clean my weapons!")
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To: Sub-Driver
..."and to receive that sacrament they should be free of sin.
"


Well, that eliminates just about everyone...
14 posted on 04/23/2004 5:29:25 PM PDT by Blzbba
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To: Mannaggia l'America
"The Eucharist is the body and blood."

That's what I was taught, too.
15 posted on 04/23/2004 5:30:25 PM PDT by Blzbba
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To: Sub-Driver
McGreevey said he would be forcing all residents to accept his faith.

Wrong again, Senator Dumbass.

Since McGreevey is not king, his word does not become law. He only applies his word to the political mix, which forms the law. What little power he does have (1% of the Senate) he trades to his true god: Moloch, the thief of children, who pays McGreevey quite well.

Money and power are more important to Dumbass than his faith, so he hides behind semantics and does what he's told.

16 posted on 04/23/2004 5:32:49 PM PDT by Petronski (I'm not always cranky.)
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To: Petronski
Oh, he's Governor Dumbass, that's worse yet. I was thinking of his cohort in Hell, Senator Dumbass Corzine.

Governor Dumbass is trading off quite a lot of power, I hope he and Moloch (the thief of children) have struck a fair bargain.

Yeah, right.

17 posted on 04/23/2004 5:34:51 PM PDT by Petronski (I'm not always cranky.)
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To: Blzbba
Ok Senator Kerry, either you is or you aint Catholic.
The shucking and jiving for the Massachusetts Catholic Democrats is over. You can affirm your faith or call Rev. Gene Robinson in New Hampshire. He is an expert at creating his own blend of religion and conduct
18 posted on 04/23/2004 5:38:29 PM PDT by oldironsides
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To: Petronski
ugh, minor corection, he's our idiot Governor, but point well taken
19 posted on 04/23/2004 5:38:58 PM PDT by Sub-Driver
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To: Sub-Driver
This shows what a bunch of hacks the low life ba#tards are.They are not catholics they are baby killers and nothing more.
20 posted on 04/23/2004 5:39:44 PM PDT by solo gringo (Always Ranting Always Rite)
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To: solo gringo; Coleus
yep...
21 posted on 04/23/2004 5:40:31 PM PDT by Sub-Driver
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To: Sub-Driver
Yeah, I got so worked up I confused the no-good bloodthirsty bastard McGreevey with the no-good bloodthirsty bastard Corzine.

My bad.

22 posted on 04/23/2004 5:40:51 PM PDT by Petronski (I'm not always cranky.)
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To: Sub-Driver
Pro-abortion politicians who call themselves Catholics have to make a choice: they can either be politicians or they can be Catholics. They can't be both.
23 posted on 04/23/2004 5:44:19 PM PDT by Catspaw
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To: Mannaggia l'America; Sub-Driver
"To Catholics, the Eucharist represents the body and blood of Jesus"

"That's not what I was taught. The Eucharist is the body and blood."

Ohhh, let's have a good knock down drag out.


24 posted on 04/23/2004 5:44:25 PM PDT by Kerberos
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To: Sub-Driver
Sorry, guv, choose a church that thinks it's OK to slaughter children in the womb.
25 posted on 04/23/2004 5:47:17 PM PDT by DLfromthedesert
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To: oldironsides
"Ok Senator Kerry, either you is or you aint Catholic.
The shucking and jiving for the Massachusetts Catholic Democrats is over. You can affirm your faith or call Rev. Gene Robinson in New Hampshire. He is an expert at creating his own blend of religion and conduct"


And you made this reply to me because....?
26 posted on 04/23/2004 5:48:12 PM PDT by Blzbba
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To: Blzbba
You're supposed to go to confession to clear yourself of sin before communion.
27 posted on 04/23/2004 5:49:58 PM PDT by Sofa King (MY rights are not subject to YOUR approval http://www.angelfire.com/art2/sofaking/index.html)
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To: Sub-Driver
"I speak, as your bishop, for the devout Catholics of the Diocese of Trenton. Jim McGreevey does not."

McGreevious is a Pharisee.

McGreevey on Friday said those remarks hurt him...

Good.

FMCDH

28 posted on 04/23/2004 5:51:39 PM PDT by nothingnew (The pendulum is swinging and the Rats are in the pit!)
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To: Sofa King
"You're supposed to go to confession to clear yourself of sin before communion."


Right. I went to 6 years of Catholic school and am well aware. I'm also aware of the fact that, if every Catholic lined up every Saturday to confess their sins, priest would do nothing but hear confessions 24/7 to keep up. Since that does not occur and many Catholics are lapse in their confessions, there are therefore many false Catholics.
29 posted on 04/23/2004 5:52:16 PM PDT by Blzbba
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To: Sub-Driver
"Gov. James E. McGreevey said he loves his Catholic faith and will continue to practice it, but church leaders are wrong to tell him and other politicians not to support abortion rights."

Yeah, and while they're at it, they should stop pushing all of that 'Jesus' crap on them too. I mean, really, what business does religion have dictating morality to them?
30 posted on 04/23/2004 5:54:41 PM PDT by Sofa King (MY rights are not subject to YOUR approval http://www.angelfire.com/art2/sofaking/index.html)
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To: nickcarraway
Exactly. The politicians love to play the religion card portraying themselves as devout followers. However, they want to distance themselves from certain tenets of their religion when it ma prove harmful to their political ambitions. They don't like it when they are revealed as the hypocrites they really are. They want to pick and choose what beliefs are acceptable, i.e., the religion must conform to their personal credo. Kerry, the "devout" Catholic, is an enthusiastic supporter of abortion and he can marry again without an annulment. Yet he would scream like a stuck pig if the Church prohibited him from receiving Communion. I guess this makes him a CINO.
31 posted on 04/23/2004 5:57:27 PM PDT by kabar
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To: Blzbba
"I'm also aware of the fact that, if every Catholic lined up every Saturday to confess their sins, priest would do nothing but hear confessions 24/7 to keep up. "

You only need to go to confession to confess serious sins. Being stubbornly and publicly pro-choice is a very serious sin. Being privately pro-choice is a sin too and the person should refrain from communion. "Since that does not occur and many Catholics are lapse in their confessions, there are therefore many false Catholics."

No doubt. However a notrious public sinner, or some one very well known, whom it is crystal clear is opposed to Church teaching is giving PUBLIC scandal to the faithful and can be refused communion or should not go.

32 posted on 04/23/2004 6:01:26 PM PDT by DestroytheDemocrats
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To: Sub-Driver
Why don't they just leave the Church instead of being hypocrits and calling themselves Catholics
33 posted on 04/23/2004 6:02:11 PM PDT by uncbob
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To: Sub-Driver
to chose between obeying their religion and practicing politics,

"I do not accept that false choice," replied Judas.

34 posted on 04/23/2004 6:10:16 PM PDT by ShadowDancer
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To: Sub-Driver
If he followed church teaching on reproductive issues as governor, McGreevey said he would be forcing all residents to accept his faith.

"Personally, I must follow my own conscience, my own set of beliefs," he said. "I think it's wrong when those who attempt to force, force a false choice between one's faith and religious tradition and the importance of governing within an open democratic society."

What an egotistical moron. Forcing all residence to accept HIS faith. Who does he think he is the Pope of N.J.?
35 posted on 04/23/2004 6:12:13 PM PDT by wattsup (wattsup)
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To: Blzbba
Once when Mary McCarthy said something about the Eucharist being a symbol, Flannery O'Connor replied, "If it's only a symbol, I say the hell with it!"

McGreevey isn't just arguing with his Church, he's arguing with God. If he doesn't believe that, he should find another church to attend.
36 posted on 04/23/2004 6:15:07 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Loyal Buckeye
The Catholic church has a duty to tell its followers when they are not living their lives according to their faiths' teachings and beliefs.
It is then up to that person to make a choice between his lifestyle and his religious convictions.
Sometimes you have to make the hard choices and stand behind your decision, regardless of the consequences.
37 posted on 04/23/2004 6:20:22 PM PDT by airborne (lead by example)
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To: Blzbba
You're supposed to go to confession to clear yourself of sin before communion."

Right. I went to 6 years of Catholic school and am well aware. I'm also aware of the fact that, if every Catholic lined up every Saturday to confess their sins, priest would do nothing but hear confessions 24/7 to keep up. Since that does not occur and many Catholics are lapse in their confessions, there are therefore many false Catholics.

I agree there are many false Catholics, but it doesn't change the Church teaching. One minor clarification...only mortal sins need to be cleansed prior to reception of the Eucharist, which should cut down somewhat on the crowding outside of the confessional if most of us Catholics actually started following the doctrine:)

38 posted on 04/23/2004 6:22:53 PM PDT by power2 (JMJ)
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To: Sub-Driver
"but he loves his democrat party more..."

Obviously, that's why he's attempting to shape the church to fit the party.

39 posted on 04/23/2004 6:27:00 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: Sub-Driver; All
"TRENTON, N.J. (AP) — Gov. James E. McGreevey said he loves his Catholic faith and will continue to practice it, but church leaders are wrong to tell him and other politicians not to support abortion rights."

Well then, Gov. McGreevey, Senator Kerry and other anti-life politicians should get another religion.

What kind of religion would tell it's members to kill?
40 posted on 04/23/2004 6:31:36 PM PDT by Sun
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To: nickcarraway
Thanks for reminding me of that I had forgotten. I can't wait till Bret runs for Governor again. After 4 years of McGreedy even the people in NJ will be ready for a conservative governor.
41 posted on 04/23/2004 6:37:02 PM PDT by mware
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To: Sub-Driver
McGreevey: Church wrong to dictate to Catholic politicians

The Church is to rebuke sinning members of the church. If a Catholic politician is flouting church teaching (especially Biblical teaching), then he is transgressing. As a public leader he is especially accountable and to be judged more strictly for his transgressions. Besides, if he's a real Catholic, his responsibility is to the Church first and secular society second. If he can't live with this, then he should officially leave the Church because he has certainly already abandoned it by being disobedient.
42 posted on 04/23/2004 6:39:20 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: Sofa King
Gov. James E. McGreevey said he "loves his Catholic faith

He clearly loves "his Catholic faith" less than he loves his office.

and will continue to practice it,

Only if he gets to define the terms and conditions of his particular form of practice.

but church leaders are wrong

So much for assenting to the Church's moral authority.

to tell him and other politicians

Doesn't the Church know that politicians are above the law, including God's moral law.

not to support abortion rights."

His language is revealing, and here in lies the problem. The governor clearly advocates that all people should support the dictates he and his fellow politicos define as sacred (in this case "abortion rights"), while simultaneously rejecting all authoritative interpretations of God's law.

43 posted on 04/23/2004 6:46:16 PM PDT by Ronaldus Magnus
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To: Sub-Driver
It's such good news that the Catholic Church is finally standing for something and putting some muscle into it. The next step is to excommunicate the baby killers.

THREE CHEERS!

HIP, HIP, HOORAY!

HIP, HIP, HOORAY!

HIP, HIP, HOORAY!

44 posted on 04/23/2004 7:01:28 PM PDT by Concentrate ("It's the TV, stupid!")
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To: Sub-Driver
Carl Cameron, on Fox News tonight, mentioned that every poll shows that among Catholics - and most religions - those who go to church regularly vote Republican and those who don't (Catholics in name only) vote DemocRAT.

When was the last time the McGreevy went to church without a TV camera present?
45 posted on 04/23/2004 7:04:47 PM PDT by jackbill
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To: Sub-Driver
bump
46 posted on 04/23/2004 7:12:03 PM PDT by Steve1789 ("You've been pulling our chain, we should've done something about you a long time ago." - C. Daniels)
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To: Sub-Driver
I just forwarded the article to The Catholic League. I suspect Bill Donahue will have something to say about McGreedy.
47 posted on 04/23/2004 7:30:33 PM PDT by mware
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To: Sub-Driver
Church opinions like the one issued Friday by the Vatican force American Catholics to chose between obeying their religion and practicing politics, McGreevey said.

"I do not accept that false choice," he told reporters.

At least this bozo HAS a choice (however wrong it may be)... the innocent babies who are murdered have NO choice. I'd like to slap this guy REAL hard!
48 posted on 04/23/2004 8:52:40 PM PDT by Just Lori (I opted for adoption..........NOT abortion!)
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To: Petronski
Since McGreevey is not king, his word does not become law.

He dreams of it constantly!
49 posted on 04/23/2004 8:56:41 PM PDT by Just Lori (I opted for adoption..........NOT abortion!)
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To: Spanaway Lori
He dreams of it constantly!

LOL Excuse my more vulgar tones, but I'm betting those dreams are rather, uh, moist...

50 posted on 04/23/2004 8:58:10 PM PDT by Petronski (I'm not always cranky.)
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