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US Navy to order unique aircraft in Saratov, Russia (UFO-shaped)
Russia Journal Daily ^ | April 23, 2004

Posted on 04/23/2004 5:39:17 PM PDT by Shermy

SARATOV - The US Navy Department intends to subsidize the development of an advanced Russian aircraft, which will eventually be extinguishing forest fires on US territory. This UFO-shaped flying machine is currently being designed by the Saratov aviation concern.

The Saratov aircraft enterprise, which is located in Russia's Volga region, started assembling UFO-shaped flying machines in the 1990s; however, this R&D project was then moth-balled because of financial snags.

Many aircraft companies all over the world did their best to design similar flying machines. However, Saratov's aircraft designers managed to come with some unusual engineering solutions, also building a flying-saucer mock-up.

Designers managed to overcome vibration being caused by turbulence flows, after opting for the flying-saucer concept; this problem was also solved with the help of some other know-how. This flying machine is called the EKIP (Russian acronym, Ecology and Progress).

Moreover, the hovercraft's special coating enhances lift by 40 percent (with the help of turbulence flows). Consequently, the EKIP's payload accounts for only 40-45 percent of its mass; meanwhile the relevant aircraft ratio is 20-25 percent.

The EKIP boasts some other unique specifications; for example, it can transport 100-ton loads over several thousand km at 500-700 kph and at 8-13-km altitudes. This unique hovercraft can skim along at 160 kph just above the surface.

Many foreign companies had repeatedly suggested establishing a joint venture together with the Saratov factory in the late 1990s; however, the US naval-aviation research center alone offered acceptable terms, the Saratovskiye Vesti newspaper writes.

Specific contract terms were not disclosed. According to the aircraft factory's general director Alexander Yermishin, Russia will retain EKIP copyright. The market will be divided, after batch production gets underway, with the United States paying dividends to Russia for every EKIP aircraft, Yermishin added.

First of all, the US side needs the EKIP remotely piloted aircraft for fighting fires and coping with natural calamities, Yermishin said in conclusion.

TOPICS: Business/Economy; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: artbell; aviation; ekip; usn
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To: Solamente
I am very interested in hearing a FReepers story about this...please forward story to me too!
21 posted on 04/23/2004 6:42:39 PM PDT by ItisaReligionofPeace (I'm from the government and I'm here to help.)
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To: Solamente
Due to Peer Pressure I would like to hear you story as well.
22 posted on 04/23/2004 6:48:21 PM PDT by cmsgop ( It Puts The Lotion in the Basket or it gets the Hose Again........)
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23 posted on 04/23/2004 7:14:23 PM PDT by spectr17 (Veni, Vedi, Velcro. I came, I saw, I stuck around)
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To: Solamente
You might as well just post the story..

Or, put me on your "ping" list... LOL..

C'mon, we all want to "hear" it..
24 posted on 04/23/2004 7:23:46 PM PDT by Drammach (The Wolves are at the Door... Hey, Kids! Your lunch is here!)
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To: Thud
25 posted on 04/23/2004 7:31:19 PM PDT by Dark Wing
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To: Fedora; All; andysandmikesmom; areafiftyone; bigfootbob; Ecliptic; El Sordo; Ghengis; ...

I just got, today, 3 new UFO books. One is tooooo techincal for my tastes--published posthumously by a NASA fellow detailing various means for UFOS's to do what they evidently do.

Another--a good one by TIMOTHY GOOD of ABOVE TOP SECRET fame . . . is a good one--with some startling pics of purported real ET critter alive, running, sitting, lying etc. ugly critter. Not a grey.

and TRILLION a novel.

Will perhaps share some excerpts.

Thanks for th eping.
26 posted on 04/23/2004 8:21:50 PM PDT by Quix (Choose this day whom U will serve: Shrillery & demonic goons or The King of Kings and Lord of Lords)
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To: Brett66
There have been over the years various attempts to make a "flying wing" type of aircraft (where the fuselage is basically a wing), and some of them even flew. This is sure the most flying saucerish flying wing I have ever seen. It would be incredible to see it fly. I wonder how powerful the engines will have to be?
27 posted on 04/23/2004 8:30:08 PM PDT by Wilhelm Tell (Lurking since 1997!)
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To: Solamente
"...1200 foot long dark grey perfect cylinder float noiselessly ..."
- - -
I've seen that too, but it was many years ago.
Very strange indeed.
28 posted on 04/23/2004 8:34:15 PM PDT by DefCon
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To: Quix
Many thanks for the ping,as well as the book list. :-)
29 posted on 04/23/2004 8:42:31 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: Quix
Is the NASA one Paul R. Hill, Unconventional Flying Objects: A Scientific Analysis? That's the best one I've read on the technical side.

On Good, Above Top Secret, which was his first book, was good (no pun intended, LOL!) because it was mostly an overview of public and government documents, but starting with his second book Alien Contact he includes a lot of information fed to him by people I don't trust like Richard C. Doty who has a counterintelligence background (see The Falcon and the Snow-Job) and Bob Lazar who makes wild scientific claims which are easily disproven (for instance compare Lazar's scientific explanation of UFOs with Hill's much more technical analysis and what Lazar says doesn't fit the physics at all). There's some good stuff in Good's books but you have to really sift through some disinformation.

Haven't read Trillion. Let me know if that's any good!

Thanks and blessings! :)

30 posted on 04/23/2004 8:47:22 PM PDT by Fedora
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To: uglybiker
80's vintage Chevy pickup

The El-Lay California special!

31 posted on 04/23/2004 8:54:27 PM PDT by janetgreen (WAKE UP, PRESIDENT BUSH - AMERICA IS BEING INVADED)
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To: Fedora; All
YES, THANKS, it is the Hill book.

Could you summarize the most significant points in your estimation. I just don't care to wade through the difficult technical stuff. Not my field and my interest of that portion of things is not that detailed.

I agree about Good. Hard to know in the latest what's disinformation. But isin't it usually tricky to sort out? How do you do it?

32 posted on 04/23/2004 8:54:37 PM PDT by Quix (Choose this day whom U will serve: Shrillery & demonic goons or The King of Kings and Lord of Lords)
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To: Quix
Timothy Good's book sounds like a must-read! Thanks for the tip.
33 posted on 04/23/2004 8:57:23 PM PDT by janetgreen (WAKE UP, PRESIDENT BUSH - AMERICA IS BEING INVADED)
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To: Solamente
Piffle! I witnessed a 'fat cigar' shaped object in 1973 that flew silently over my vehicle, killing the electrical system while overhead. No motors driving fans, no propellars, no jet exhaust, no sound ... and no lights; it was dark against a dawning June sky. I saw it through the windshiled then the open sunroof of my car as it passed overhead. Truly a UFO, but to say it was extra-terrestrial is a stretch I cannot make fairly. But I do believe it was an ET.
34 posted on 04/23/2004 9:01:44 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: janetgreen

It does seem to be worth the price and a read.
35 posted on 04/23/2004 9:21:31 PM PDT by Quix (Choose this day whom U will serve: Shrillery & demonic goons or The King of Kings and Lord of Lords)
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To: MHGinTN; Solamente
The craft you saw, how big were they? And is there a chance they could be man-made or were the craft definitely 'special.' I cannot emphasise how curious i am, so if you have any more info please share. Thanks.
36 posted on 04/23/2004 9:30:18 PM PDT by spetznaz (Nuclear missiles: The ultimate Phallic symbol.)
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To: Quix
Hal Puthoff (who has a scientific background but also I believe has a Scientology/New Age background so be aware of his ideological perspective) wrote a review of Hill's book which is online here: Hal Puthoff Reviews Paul Hill Book. Here is the gist:

One of the most consistently-observed characteristics of UFO flight is a ubiquitous pattern in which they tilt to perform all maneuvers. Specifically, they sit level to hover, tilt forward to move forward, tilt backward to stop, bank to turn, and descend by "falling-leaf" or "silver-dollar-wobble" motions. Detailed analysis by Hill shows that such motion is inconsistent with aerodynamic requirements, but totally consistent with some form of repulsive force-field propulsion. Not satisfied with paper analyses alone, Hill arranged to have various forms of jet-supported and rotor-supported circular flying platforms built and tested. Hill himself acted as test pilot in early, originally-classified, versions, and found the above motions the most economical for control purposes. Pictures of these platforms are included in the text.

In an effort to examine the force-field propulsion hypothesis yet further, Hill analyzed a number of cases involving near-field interactions with an apparent craft in which some form of force was in evidence. These include examples in which a person or vehicle was affected, tree branches were parted or broken, roof tiles were dislodged, objects were deflected, and ground or water were disturbed. Under close analysis the subtleties of these interactions combine to point unequivocally to a repulsive force field surrounding the craft, while discriminating against propulsion mechanisms involving jet action, pure electric or magnetic effects, or the emission of energetic particles or radiation (although the latter may accompany the propulsive mechanism as a secondary effect). Further detailed investigation indicates that the particular form of force field propulsion that satisfies observational constraints is what Hill labels a directed acceleration field; that is, a field that is, in general, gravitational-like in nature, and, in particular, gravity-canceling. Such a field acts on all masses in its sphere of influence as does a gravitational field. Corollary to this conclusion is that observed accelerations ~100 g's relative to the environment could be sustained without on-board high-g forces.

Apart from that I haven't seen a scientific review of Hill's book. It'd take me a while to write up a detailed review, but to attempt a quick one to answer your question:

Basically Hill's approach is to assemble the data from some major UFO cases and then analyze it scientifically from a physics perspective with an aim towards identifying a possible mechanism for observed properties of UFO propulsion. He first considers things such as observed weight, mass, density, etc., which leads him to the conclusion that UFOs have mass in a range heavier than a jet aircraft; speed/acceleration performance, which he concludes can be explained in terms of known physics of controlled high accelerations; illumination color, which he sees as evidence of an ionized plasma sheath; and radiation and temperature, which leads him to conclude that UFOs radiate between 25 electron volts and 3 million electron volts, into the lower end of the gamma ray spectrum (relating to the ionized sheath). Then he starts considering possible propulsion mechanisms for UFOs' observed near-earth performance (to be distinguished from any interstellar performance, since these may involve different mechanisms), and after ruling out a number of possiblities (particle ejection, pressure, rocketry, electric fields, magnetic fields, etc.) by process of elimination he argues for force field propulsion as the likely mechanism. After considering a number of different types of possible force fields he concludes the one involved in UFO propulsion is similar to gravity but acts in an opposite manner. Once he advances this hypothesis he develops it in technical detail and relates it to other observed data such as UFO humming, dynamics, subsonic and supersonic operation, aerodynamic heating, etc. Towards the end he addresses objections based on relativity theory. The gist of his argument is that observed UFO performance does not violate the known laws of physics, but, however, does exceed human technological achievement as it stood at the time Dr. Hill completed his manuscript in 1975, in his stated opinion. He does not get much into discussion of classified aircraft programs such as those emphasized by authors like Renato Vesco and David Hatcher Childress in Man-Made Ufos 1944-1994: 50 Years of Suppression, which is an area I still have unanswered questions about.

I agree on the difficulty of sorting out disinformation. I have my own way of approaching it which is probably different than others. For one thing I look at the background of the person making the claim and possible political agendas, and when someone has a counterintelligence background like Doty does that immediately raises a red flag. I also look for known propaganda techniques, such as incomplete presentation of data, one-factor analysis which excludes consideration of other relevant variables, attribution of statements to anonymous unverifiable sources, etc. Another thing I look for is consistency between known facts and claims where the facts are in question. With respect to this I've found looking through old news accounts and declassified documents helpful because it helps establish a timeline of when reports of phenomena occurred and how the government and media responded to these reports, which helps establish at least some facts in the case. It's complicated, as I know you know! :)

Hope that helps save you at least a little reading time! Have a good night and enjoy your reading! :)

37 posted on 04/23/2004 10:04:34 PM PDT by Fedora
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To: Fedora; Poohbah


If you would bother reading it, I'd be happy to send it to you. It's just much more detailed than I care to bother with.

38 posted on 04/23/2004 10:12:29 PM PDT by Quix (Choose this day whom U will serve: Shrillery & demonic goons or The King of Kings and Lord of Lords)
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To: Quix; Poohbah
Thanks, Quix! Poohbah, if you do read it I'd be interested to hear what you get out of it, too. I've been trying to get some friends in the scientific community to help me evaluate it for a while now, but most people I show it to have the same reaction as Quix, understandably so :)
39 posted on 04/23/2004 10:34:40 PM PDT by Fedora
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To: Solamente
Give it up brother,
you've got everybody interested as hell.

I might even be encouraged to relate my experieinces attempting to report 'blue book' events in the sixties.

Hint, there was no 'there' to report to.

40 posted on 04/23/2004 10:43:22 PM PDT by norton
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