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Report: Muslim violence against Jews on rise in Germany
Haaretz Daily ^
Posted on 04/24/2004 9:32:31 AM PDT by Bismarck
Berlin - Violence by Moslem youths against Jews is on the rise in Germany, according to a published report Saturday.
A total 35 violent attacks on Jewish individuals were reported in Germany last year, up from 28 in 2002, according to the report in Der Tagesspiegel newspaper.
The Berlin paper based its report on preliminary federal statistics on anti-Semitism in Germany.
Berlin was the location of more attacks than any other city in Germany, with 12 reported cases of violence against Jews.
The report said half of all such cases involved attacks by non-German youths. Turkish nationals account for 20 per cent of all non-Germans in Germany. Berlin has 170,000 Turks, the largest ethnic Turkish population of any European city.
Meanwhile, anti-Semitic violence by German neo-Nazis is on the decline, the report said.
Last year 1,000 incidents were reported, ranging from desecrating Jewish cemeteries to distributing anti-Semitic literature. In 2002 the figure was 1,592.
The number of skinheads has also declined, from an estimated 10,700 in 2002 to 10,000 in 2003
TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Germany; Israel; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: germanmuslims; jihadineurope; koran; muhammad; muslims; persecution; religiouscleansing
I guess the Moheammdan immigrants are thinking: Roll over Adolf! MOHAMMED is in the house...
posted on 04/24/2004 9:32:32 AM PDT
To: Alouette; mhking
Germany welcomed the Muslims with open arms and now they are going to pay the price.
posted on 04/24/2004 9:37:40 AM PDT
posted on 04/24/2004 9:39:08 AM PDT
(Fight those who do not believe in Allah. - Koran, Surah IX: 29, "Repentance.")
Yes, at first they accepted the so-called "Gastarbeiter" in the 60s and 70s to help with the conomic miracle. It wasn't a problem when most of them where Spaniards and Italians, but then Turks started to immigrate... and not civilized and well-educated Turks from Istanbul, but ignorant and bigoted Mohammedans from the countryside. Germany is paying the price for its insane multicultural domestic policies.
posted on 04/24/2004 9:42:14 AM PDT
I read the TagesSpiegel article and there is absolutely no mention of Muslims anywhere. It looks to me as if Haaretz has simply drawn this conclusion with no supporting evidence. That's a shame quite frankly.
I can't find a contact link on Haaretz's website. Otherwise I'd write and ask them to yank this article. It's bollocks.
posted on 04/24/2004 9:50:15 AM PDT
CAIR has been exposing this and demanding it stop......................................................NOT!!!!!!!!
posted on 04/24/2004 9:56:25 AM PDT
Who knew? How unusual.
You said that Germany is paying the price for it's insane,multicultural domestic policies.
Well,sad to say,we will be next to pay a price,and a heavy price it will be if something isn't done soon.
posted on 04/24/2004 10:22:46 AM PDT
At one point, before the Reich came to power, many Jews
in Germany who knew what was coming fled.
When Islam takes over, where will they flee now?
If I were a Jew in Germany, I'd be praying hard.
posted on 04/24/2004 1:21:43 PM PDT
("...Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges - In Times of War, The Law Will Be Silent..." - Cicero)
To: AM2000; samtheman; KirkBloke
Referring to your discussion about the ´Eurotrash-list´, I think this could challenge the point that Nazism were "alive and well" in Europe. 1,000 reports of anti-semitic activity in a country of 80 million people is not that high. One could argue that one incident is too much, but then I´d like to get stats from the US.
Eurotrash errr Michael
To: Michael81Dus; AM2000; samtheman; KirkBloke; All
Here's an interesting article from Ha'aretz (More Germans are anti-Semitic than meets the eye) about the rising tide of anti-Semitism in Germany.
I find it staggering that 38 percent of those Germans polled think "it would be best if the Jews to leave the Middle East." Even more incredible (and totally sickening) is the discovery that 57 percent of those Germans polled think "the Israelis treat the Palestinians the way the Nazis treated the Jews." Now that is a truly warped moral inversion.
Despite the massive attempt at the re-education of the German people since the end of World War II, one wonders if they in fact have learned one single thing. And I find it utterly chilling that 100,000 Jews now live in Germany.
Mon., April 19, 2004 Nisan 28, 5764
More Germans are anti-Semitic than meets the eye
By Amiram Barkat
"The majority of our people shares your thoughts," wrote General Reinhard Gunzel, the commander of an elite German army special forces unit, in a letter of support to Martin Hohmann, a German parliamentarian from the Christian Democratic party, following an October speech he gave marking the anniversary of German unification. In his talk, Hohmann argued that there is no essential difference between the horrors committed by the Jewish Bolsheviks who were members of the Communist Party during the 1917 revolution and the horrors committed by the Germans during World War II. "Whoever refers to the Germans as a `despicable people' can, by the same logic, describe the Jews in the same way," was Hohmann's conclusion. Hohmann's speech and Gunzel's letter of support cost both persons their jobs - the two were publicly denounced as having brought shame on the party and the army to which they belonged.
But a poll commissioned by the newspaper Die Zeit after this development found that only half of the Germans supported punishing Hohmann for his remarks; 40 percent of those questioned in western Germany and 28 percent of those questioned in eastern Germany even supported his statements.
The head of the department of communication psychology at the Friedrich Schiller University of Jena, Prof. Wolfgang Frindte, feels that Gunzel's assessment was not erroneous. On the contrary, "the information we have indicates support for his claim, that it is a majority of Germans," he says. Frindte, who has been researching anti-Semitism in Germany for over a decade, estimates that every other German holds some anti-Semitic opinion. According to his findings, just under 50 percent of Germans do not feel they bear any responsibility to Jews due to the Holocaust, while over 60 percent are very critical of Israel. The effect of anti-Semitic views is also evident among this group, Frindte believes.
A native of East Germany, Frindte started working at the university as a researcher in the 1980s. For the last decade, he has focused on studying different phenomena of xenophobia, including anti-Semitism. Several weeks ago, he presented his latest study on the subject at Haifa University, where he was a guest of the Bucerius Institute for Research of Contemporary German History and Society.
Comparative studies from recent years that looked at "classic" anti-Semitic views in different Western European countries placed Germans in the middle of the scale for the most part. "The statistic that consistently emerges from the various studies is that the number of Germans who hold anti-Semitic views is around 20 percent," he says. "That was also our starting point, but during the course of the research we found that this is a phenomenon with other faces, and we decided to develop a model that would enable us to measure them as well."
Four types of hostility
Frindte sought to conduct a comprehensive study of anti-Semitism, but had trouble obtaining funding; one effort was rejected because "the study has already been studied in depth." After four unsuccessful attempts, Frindte decided on a limited study with his own funding from the University of Jena. The study consisted of a random sample of 411 participants aged 18 to 83. However, due to its limited scale, it cannot be considered representative of all Germans. The study was based on a model developed by Frindte that defined four ways of expressing hostility to Jews: demonstratively, latently, by denying the feeling of responsibility for the Jews, and by voicing harsh criticism of Israel.
The study's major finding is a rough estimate of the number of the German population that voices hostility in each of these four ways. The smallest group is one with stated anti-Semitic views - a figure slightly less than 20 percent. The next group, a few percentage points greater, is one with latent anti-Semitic views - those with negative views of Jews who refrain from voicing them in public and in "regular" surveys. "The way we chose to identify those with latent anti-Semitic views was to use indirect questions such as `Do you relate in public what you think of the Jews'?" Frindte says.
A review of the breakdown of the respondents according to political views indicates that 46 percent of right-wing voters belong to both the first and second group. There was also a direct correlation between the rate of support for both views and the respondent's age.
The two remaining groups turned out to be not only the largest groups, but also the more problematic regarding the methodology. Some 46 percent of the respondents deny German responsibility toward Jews for the Holocaust due to having agreed to statements such as, "As a young man in Germany, I have no responsibility for the Jews" or "Decades after the end of the World War, we don't need the Holocaust. We need to close that chapter of our past."
"There was a big debate in Germany over whether such sentiments represent an expression of anti-Semitism," Frindte says. "We found that there is a strong correlation between those with stated anti-Semitic views and rejection of a sense of responsibility." The percentage of those who deny responsibility among right-wing voters is 84 percent.
However, the group that holds anti-Semitic views is larger and more complex. Frindte did not try to use a rigid criterion to distinguish between "legitimate" criticism of Israel's policy and criticism tarnished by anti-Semitism. Instead, in the first stage he isolated the group with strong criticism and only in the second stage he investigated whether there were any connections between this group and the other three groups. Some 64 percent of those surveyed were found to be anti-Semitic after having agreed to some extent with statements such as, "Israelis are an occupation force and they have no business being in Palestine" (79 percent agreed or totally agreed); "It would be best if the Jews were to leave the Middle East" (38 percent); and "The Israelis treat the Palestinians the way the Nazis treated the Jews" (57 percent).
Solidarity among extremists
A review of the breakdown of political views indicates that anti-Israel sentiment is a trait equally present in all of Germany's political streams: 66 percent of left-wing voters, 61 percent of centrist voters, and 62 percent of right-wing voters hold such views. In all age and gender groups, the level of hostility to Israel was uniform - in no group was it less than 60 percent. The percentage of those with such views peaked among those aged 46-76: 55 percent of them were hostile to Israel.
Using Frindte's method, it is possible to define the nature of the connection between anti-Israel sentiment and anti-Semitism: not all anti-Israelis are anti-Semites, but all anti-Semites are anti-Israel. "There are two different groups that stand out in their anti-Israel sentiments, Frindte says. "The first group has leftist views and favors multiculturalism. Its criticism of Israel does not stem from anti-Semitic motives. That is not true of the second group, which is associated with the political right." However, Frindte feels that in recent years, anti-Semitism has seeped from the extreme right into the anti-Israel left and center. Among the extreme right, extreme left, and radical Islam, the view that "the situation in Israel is not marked by the behavior of a `normal' democratic state, but stems from the character of the Jews" has become more widespread.
Frindte distinguishes this seepage against the backdrop of the broader phenomenon of efforts by the extreme right, extreme left and radical Islam to move closer on a range of issues, including anti-Semitism and hostility toward the United States. He relates that when he observed an extreme right demonstration in his hometown of Jena, he was surprised to see demonstrators wearing kaffiyehs as an expression of solidarity with Muslims - a practice that had been common among only left-wing activists. The demonstrators also sang songs of solidarity with the left.
Nevertheless, there is another process that Frindte feels is hastening the transformation of anti-Israel sentiments into real anti-Semitism. "The reference is to German society's increasing interest in the suffering of the Germans themselves during World War II," he says. The occupation with what is referred to, among right-wing extremists, as "the German Holocaust" or "the other Holocaust" in more centrist circles has become popular in the last three years, since the publication of Gunter Grass' book, "Crabwalk." The most blatant explanation for this was already provided in the late 1980s by the Jewish German journalist and writer, Henrik Broder, who said, "the Germans will never forgive us [the Jews] for Auschwitz." According to Frindte, "the primary danger today to German society is that we have no red lines that determine that it is impossible to speak about Germans as victims and at the same time speak about Jews as perpetrators, as Hohmann did."
posted on 04/24/2004 2:17:18 PM PDT
Most German Jews, as far as I understand, are from the former USSR. If they were Zionists, they would have moved to Israel instead of Germany.
They are not being attacked for political reasons, they are being attacked for their religion. Muslims think they have a right to make places Judenrein.
posted on 04/24/2004 2:19:10 PM PDT
(Stalinists, Maoists, Ba'athists, Pacifists: Why are they always on the same side?)
To: Michael81Dus; All
"One could argue that one incident is too much, but then I´d like to get stats from the US."
The difference of course is that Germany was responsible for the genocide of the Jewish people in Europe. One incident of anti-Semitism (never mind the quite overwhelming anti-Semitic sentiments detailed in the article above) *is* surely far too much from a nation that within living memory murdered 1.5 million Jewish children in cold blood.
posted on 04/24/2004 2:22:20 PM PDT
Tell me something new! It doesn't matter if its France, Belgium or Germany... the Mohammedan hordes are specifically targeting Jews. And the politically correct mainstream doesn't really oppose it, because the European liberal "intelligentsia" is anti-Israel and pro-Arab. In the meantime, they are allowing the Mohammedan thugs to keep on harassing Jews, while trying to find "white" culprits for the anti-Semitic cancer.
posted on 04/24/2004 2:25:14 PM PDT
Whats the Arabic word for Krystallnacht?
posted on 04/24/2004 2:26:08 PM PDT
Probably "hobby".... it seems that the Mohammedan thugs have a great time physcially harassing minorities.
posted on 04/24/2004 2:29:23 PM PDT
posted on 04/24/2004 2:29:42 PM PDT
("...Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges - In Times of War, The Law Will Be Silent..." - Cicero)
There is a solution. Since their political correct societies spew hate among the population, something else is in order. In California there are the Hell's Angels who will beat the hell out of anyone who causes trouble. Export them to Europe, please.
posted on 04/24/2004 2:35:08 PM PDT
And here we are back blaming Germany for its history. Your post is a good example that the Germans cannot feel as a normal nation - no wonder that there´s no patriotism.
Isn´t Germany a stable democracy, fully respecting and defending human rights and general freedom? So what has today´s German government and society in common with the Nazi crimes?
And btw, I read that article, which was posted and discussed on FR before, and I als read the comments that there´s nothing anti-semitic in the words from Gunzel. It´s hard to tell if it was or not, but Germans surely are not anti-semitic, however, they do object the actions of Israel in the Palestine conflict (which is, at least for us standing outside the conflict more political than religious).
Is doesn't surprise me to this. I wonder when or if it will start here in this country.
posted on 04/24/2004 2:42:27 PM PDT
by dixie sass
(Purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, contentment - claws are sharp and ready for use!)
FYI, there are already Hell Angels and Desperados in Germany and in Scandinavia. They are mostly armdealers and occasionaly are involved in the drug business.
posted on 04/24/2004 2:42:40 PM PDT
To: dixie sass
It's a matter of time... Mohammedan students and their allies, the Far Left, are constantly advertising their anti-Israel propaganda on America's campuseses. Incidents of physical violence against pro-Israel groups and individuals isn't seldom anymore.
posted on 04/24/2004 2:48:09 PM PDT
Stalin was far more ruthless than Hitler with Jews. He didn't bother with camps. He just had his people shoot them and leave their bodies in the countryside to be eaten by vermin and for the winter to cover them up.
posted on 04/24/2004 2:48:18 PM PDT
What about the Outlaws? Are they there too?
posted on 04/24/2004 2:49:27 PM PDT
I don't really know... Some years ago the Hell Angels and the Desperados were constantly in the news because of an ongoing gangwar. Those guys were shooting at each other even with RPGs!
posted on 04/24/2004 2:51:51 PM PDT
The report said half of all such cases involved attacks by non-German youths.
Anti-Jewish violence is on the rise . . . The number of skinheads has declined . . . Neo-Nazi violence has declined . . . But only half of the attacks are by non-German youths . . . Lemme see . . . That means half of the attacks are being done by "good Germans," and more are joining in everyday. We knew it wouldn't be long after re-unification before Germany returned to its roots.
Oddly enough,Japan took in some Jews after the persecution started in Germany.
The Buddhist countries may be safer than anyplace else.
posted on 04/24/2004 3:10:25 PM PDT
To: 12B; Michael81Dus
I have to agree with 12B. The paragraphs I translated below looks like the article "Haaretz" was refering to, so you can decide for yourself.
There were less criminal offenses against Jews, but a rise in assaults (a violent criminal offense) against them, the number of total assaults was 35.
I didn't see muslim in the report, the only point where foreigners were mentioned was in the 2nd paragraph below. The report attributed the drop in criminal offenses against jews to fewer or less inflammatory speeches by certain politicians.
The number of overall criminal offenses (against anyone) by right leaning extremists was 10,500 a drop of 402, assaults remained about the same at 772. The number of right leaning extremists (skinheads) shrunk from 10,700 to 10,000, while the neo-nazis grew from 2600 to 3000.
The security authorities have registered a clear drop in anti-Semitic crimes in 2003. It had determined that 20 per cent less criminal offenses which were directed at Jews and Jewish facilities, security experts told the "Tagesspiegel". The total number was under 1300 acts, there had been 1594 in 2002.
We can't call an 'all clear' now, though. The authorities registered an increase of anti-Jewish assaults: 35 in 2003, after 28 in the 2002 and 18 in the 2001. With twelve anti-Semitic assaults occurring in Berlin, that meant a third were committed in the federal capital. In addition, the growing number of non-German perpetrators in Berlin is striking: Foreigners, primarily younger ones, committed half of all anti-Semitic criminal offenses (Total number (of crimes) in 2003: 171). [I think they mean in Berlin]
....Juden häufiger Opfer von Gewalttaten
posted on 04/24/2004 3:13:17 PM PDT
You got it all wrong.... yes, there are German neonazis, but their numbers are NOT growing. The aforementioned "other half" is constituted by anti-Israeli and anti-American Anarchists and Neo-Marxists, and they have absolutely no relationship whatseover with the German nationalism ("We knew it wouldn't be long after re-unification before Germany returned to its roots"). This far left thugs can also be found in the USA: NION, International ANSWER, ISO, ISM, etc. etc. etc. etc.
posted on 04/24/2004 3:22:52 PM PDT
"The number of overall criminal offenses (against anyone) by right leaning extremists was 10,500 a drop of 402, assaults remained about the same at 772."
Doing the Hitler-salute or owning "Mein Kampf" is considered a "right leaning" criminal offense. Verbal abuse is considered an assault. You have to be very careful when you look at those numbers...
posted on 04/24/2004 3:25:17 PM PDT
Yes, the number seemed high, one for each member of the right leaners, so I did figure some petty offenses were included.
posted on 04/24/2004 3:38:43 PM PDT
A German was once arrested - not too long ago - because his dog was named Adolf and he did the Hitler-salute on command.
posted on 04/24/2004 3:41:59 PM PDT
I know. After having seen some of that motley crew in both DC and in Fayetteville several weeks ago. They scare me. I won't give them the satisfaction though of getting to me and mine.
posted on 04/24/2004 4:36:27 PM PDT
by dixie sass
(Purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, contentment - claws are sharp and ready for use!)
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