Tillman Makes Eli Manning Look Even Smaller (NYC Crowd Lustily Boos Petulant NFL 'Royalty')

Toledo Blade ^ | April 25, 2004 | John Harris

[Criminal Number 18F]

I wonder.... if maybe his death in Iraq wasn't so bad.

First, he died in Afghanistan. Second, I disagree with you. Every one of the 800 or so American deaths in the GWOT so far is a human tragedy.

However, I do appreciate people (like you) who try to make the best of this bad business. We can't change the fact that Pat Tillman (or any of the others) is dead, but we can learn from -- and appreciate -- their terrible sacrifice.

Let's all pull together to make sure that the dead, those on the roll of honour today, and those whose reckoning is yet to come, do not die in vain. Let us prevail.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

[commish]

why is everyone mad at Manning?

Let me correct vigilante as he is leading you astray by not telling the whole story.

The reason everyone is dogging Manning is because his fathe, Archie Manning, came out and said that he did not want Eli playing for the Charger's because he had played for a bad team and didn't want his little boy to go through that. San Diego then "leaked" that they wanted Phillip rivers anyway

After the trade of barbs between daddy and the Chargers got things going it was reported that Eli then told the Charger's he would Sit Out the entire season if they drafted him.

The Charger's then decided to make little Eli sweat it out by Drafting him anyway. Then after the NY Giants drafted Phillip Rivers (The guy SD really wanted), the Chargers then completed Raped the Giants by trading them Eli (And the unbelievably high salary he will demand) for Rivers, the Giants 3rd pick this year, the Giants FIRST ROUND next year, and the Giants 5th round Next year.

[rewrite]

The Chargers O-line sends engraved invtitations to come pound the snot out of their QB. There is not a worse O-line in the NFL,and they NEVER try to improve it. I don't blame Eli. I don't blame Vick for telling them the same thing when HE became eligble. The Chargers are awful. Rivers is fixing to find that out soon enough. I hope he doesn't get hurt before he can become a free agent.

OTOH losing Tillman in the fashion we did made the WHOLE DRAFT seem small.

[threat matrix]

Which they did like 25 minutes later..

[Mr Rogers]

Having been a Baltimore Colts fan, I still do...

[cajungirl]

Football is so complicated. Sounds like the Chargers won that match and did pretty well for themselves to me.

[freebilly]

Tillman’s tragic death negates any argument defending Manning’s refusal to play for the Chargers.

BS.

I respect and admire Pat Tillman. For him to do what he did was an incredible act of selflessness and character. But let's get one thing straight: Eli Manning does not have to play for San Diego because Tillman, or anyone else, joined the service and got killed defending his country.

Some of you making the "Eli Manning is a punk" type assertions need to look at yourselves. Why don't you quit your jobs, sell your homes and cars, give your money to the poor, and go off to the mission fields or the battlefields?

"Well, you don't understand my situation!" you say. "I have obligations and responsibilities and...." So did Pat Tillman. So does Eli Manning.

Our admiration of Pat Tillman doesn't give us the right to whine in public about what others need to do with their lives. Our admiration of Pat Tillman should wake us to what WE need to do with ours....

[threat matrix]

But couldnt Manning have just put the word out that he did not want to be drafted by any team next year? (except the one that he would sign for)

[threat matrix]

The way I see it, Manning would have been hailed as a 'savior' if he led the Chargers to an 8-8 record on the beach and a wild card next year.

Instead, Daddy wants to throw his son to the wolves and the NY media..

[commish]

The Chargers definately came out the better, Rivers and manning are about equal in pure QB terms and SD got all those extra picks as well.

Don;t get me wrong though, Eli Manning is a very good QB. As an SEC fan I have watched him the last 4 years, and he is every bit as good as his brother Peyton. he does however have the same flaw, he melts down in Big Games.

He will be a fine NFL QB and probably have a long career, but Rivers will be around just as long. Rivers is not as physicall gifted as manning, but he makes up for it with pure QB Skill. He is sort of in the Tom Brady mold. he will not go out and completely dominate a game, but he will never go out and lose a game sing-handedly either. manning , OTOH, can take a team on his shoulders but also can be so bad that he will lose a game on his own.

[Vigilantcitizen]

Let me correct vigilante as he is leading you astray by not telling the whole story.

Archie Manning isn't an NFL franchise like the chargers, and isn't bound to the same rules.

Besides, many, many draftees have made public statements such as these pre-draft, Elway and Vick for example.

[TN4Liberty]

I have observed over the years that New York sports fans seem to enjoy hating players and look for any reason to do so. I don't know why.

They got a quarterback they really want, and who really wants to play for them.

Now they are ginning up reasons to hate him. Most of the country will never understand New York sports except to dislike them.

Maybe it comes with the cynicism of living in a liberal Mecca.

[lavrenti]

I agree, and I will add that Pat Tillman's brave death has nothing to do with Eli Manning. I find this comparision absurd and unbecoming of this forum.

Eli Manning not wanting to be physically destroyed like his father Archie was when he with the Saints has everything to do with Eli's decision. It is a personal move, made upon probably years of reflection and discussion within that family.

If Pat Tillman had not been killed, we wouldn't be having this thread. I find it demeaning to Tillman's memory and sacrifice that these two events are linked.

Eli is going to have a lot to deal with playing in a lousy stadium, a medicore team and an obnoxious and vile NY sports media. Eli being called a spoiled coward because of Pat Tillman, who was a singular individual with a remarkable character way beyond many his age is repulsive and out of bounds.

[Vigilantcitizen]

Rivers does have great game management skills, but he will have to generate more ball speed on his throws to be successful in the NFL.

[commish]

Archie Manning isn't an NFL franchise like the chargers, and isn't bound to the same rules.

I agree with you in that assertion, I was just pointing out there was more to the story than just the Charger's leaking stuff about Eli. Cajungirl asked what the hulabaloo was about, and as such she deserved to know the entire story, not just one small piece.

[Mr. Bird]

But couldnt Manning have just put the word out that he did not want to be drafted by any team next year? (except the one that he would sign for)

Sure, but he would have no leverage. He's a valuable commodity, and would be claimed by a team looking to deal him to his preferred choice. The dynamic that occurred yesterday would simply repeat itself.

Elway and Jackson had real leverage: they had baseball contracts on the table. The Colts and the Buccaneers could not be assured that obtaining the rights to them would prove fruitful; in fact, the Bucs wasted their pick on Jackson. Manning can threaten to put that marketing degree from Ole Miss to use, but I don't think that is quite the same as entertaining multimillion dollar contracts from another sport.

[commish]

Yeah, Phillip does have a tendency to throw some lollipop's up every once in a while.

Of course, this is all peripheral to me-- The QB I am excited about is JP Losman. I have high hopes he will develop over the next couple seasons behind Bledsoe. GO BILLS!

[lavrenti]

Now they are ginning up reasons to hate him. Most of the country will never understand New York sports except to dislike them.

I remember O'Brian, a good quarterback with the best play action moves of his generation be decimated by the NY media.

Thank goodness the Jets didn't draft Eli. He'd be three-and-out playing for that gangrene of scrubs. The Giants are awful enough to watch these days, therefore NY football fans should be so lucky to have a quarterback with Eli's maturity come in to toss to Shockey--because quite frankly he's going to be his primary receiver given the lousy OL the Jints have. Also, and I dread this, Eli has about as much knee damage as Palmer.

The Jints aren't that much better than the Chargers. So there.

[raynearhood]

The feeling that I got watching the draft, and I think the idea that the column writer was trying pass on, was that the draft doesn't really matter. Football is a business, sure, but in the end, it is just a game. Manning is set to receive millions of dollars from whatever team he PLAYS for, but that wasn't good enough for him. He wanted more; a winning team, lower cost of living, better weather. He just couldn't get on the first team that grabbed him, and PLAY the GAME.

Tillman's death, and the way that he joined the Army, has made duty, honor, and selflessness almost "necessary" traits for the American athlete. The general feeling is that people don't want to hear about multimillion dollar contracts being picked up by an outstanding wide receiver (or shortstop, QB, or pitcher). These aren't our heroes. Our hero's are the men and women who serve selflessly. And if not only them, we want to hear about such selfless exploits as Pat Tillman turning down the Rams huge contract for what was an effective cut in pay to stay with Cardinals, and Jim Thome turning down all offers thrown his way in order to stay with the Indians for a decade (until they dropped his option) all along donating half his pay to charity.

We all love exploits of grandeur on the field of play, but we hate a**holes. Where are our Joe DiMaggios, our Joe Montanas, our Nolan Ryans, our Johnny Unitases, our Lou Gehrigs, and our Willie Mayses. They are out there today, men like Brett Favre, Jim Thome, and of course Pat Tillman. They are greats of their games and (from all that we know of them) great men in life. They are too hard to find now-a-days. Eli Manning, unless his dying grandmother lives in New York, does not embody that sort of hero we seek, or the sort we want our kids to seek.