Not All Veterans Are Kerry's 'Brothers'

Insight on the News ^ | Marie Horrigan

[secretagent]

Insight on the News - Politics Issue: 5/11/04

Not All Veterans Are Kerry's 'Brothers' By Marie Horrigan

Presumptive Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts has come under fire as opponents scan his trumpeted military-service record for weaknesses.

Republicans, including Bush administration officials, have accused Kerry of shirking his duty by pressing for a discharge after serving four months in Vietnam, but not all the criticism is coming from partisan corners. Kerry's "Band of Brothers" feature prominently at many campaign events, but some veterans and veterans groups say they wouldn't want Kerry as their commander in chief.

Leonard Magruder, a former professor of psychology at Suffolk College in New York and founder of Vietnam Veterans for Academic Reform, has contacted veterans and conducted a poll of sentiment toward Kerry -- on an anecdotal basis -- from which he extrapolates that two-thirds of U.S. veterans are against the Democrat winning the presidency.

Retired Army Capt. Tony Newcomb, state outreach coordinator for the Illinois Veterans Leadership Program, has dealt with more than 240 veterans in the last four months. He reported similar findings, estimating that 85 percent of the veterans he dealt with are against Kerry winning the presidency.

Complaints by veterans will find a happy audience among Republicans, who have been taking recent criticisms to the fullest. Kerry faced his first major attack on his military record several weeks ago when the Boston Globe reported a commanding officer charged Kerry had campaigned to get his Purple Heart medals because of the military's rule allowing soldiers to return home after receiving three wounds. [Read "Purple Heart's: Three and Out" for Insight's in-depth report on the war-medals controversy.]

"He had a little scratch on his forearm, and he was holding a piece of shrapnel," Lt. Cmdr. Grant Hibbard told the Globe. "People in the office were saying, 'I don't think we got any fire,' and there is a guy holding a little piece of shrapnel in his palm."

"Many of us are just very angry about what Kerry did, primarily after the war," said Alan Hopewell, a licensed clinical neuropsychologist who served seven years of active duty as a clinical psychologist in the Army during the war.

Hopewell echoed Hibbard's sentiments about Kerry's injuries. "I've never heard of, and all the doctors have never heard of, and all the veterans have never heard of someone who came in with three little minor scratches like [Kerry] did" and get out of active duty. "Usually an officer like that would be referred over to a psych eval[uation]," he said.

Both Magruder and Hopewell say they are concerned not only about Kerry's actions, but about the psychology behind them. Kerry "has a pattern of trying to negotiate and a pattern of trying appeasement, and a pattern of action that is just outdated," Magruder said.

Hopewell said that while normally he would not worry about actions by a candidate more than 30 years earlier, "that kind of pattern just really can't be forgotten the way that most other things can be forgotten." He later added, "The best prediction of future is past behavior and that's exactly why ... many of us are still concerned."

One major point of contention is Kerry's testimony in April 1971 before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, in which he said atrocities were commonplace in Vietnam. As a commissioned officer, Hopewell said, Kerry's testimony had grave consequences. "The result of [his testimony was so devastating. It resulted in the deaths literally of thousands of people ... in the United States abandoning the Vietnamese."

It was in that testimony that Kerry made his now-famous plea, "How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?" He also said soldiers reported having "personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians" and other atrocities.

These acts were "in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country," he told the committee, and were committed "on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command."

Later that month Kerry told NBC's Meet the Press that he took part in the activities -- shootings in free-fire zones, harassment and interdiction fire, search-and-destroy missions -- that he qualified as atrocities.

But Kerry has backed off of these claims during the course of his campaign, denying he had blamed U.S. troops. "I was accusing American leaders of abandoning the troops. And if you read what I said, it is very clearly an indictment of leadership," he told CNN's Judy Woodruff in February. "I said to the Senate, where is the leadership of our country?

"And it's the leaders who are responsible, not the soldiers. I never said that. I've always fought for the soldiers. ... I'm proud of the record of fighting for soldiers and for veterans."

However, some veterans groups argue that Kerry's testimony marginalized returning veterans. Some also charge Kerry's claims were patently wrong.

The Kerry campaign has jumped to the offensive in the face of Republican attacks, releasing reams of Kerry's military documents and pointing to questions about Bush's service in the Air National Guard. Democratic National Committee Chairman Terry McAuliffe offered a rebuttal Monday to a particularly virulent attack by Vice President Dick Cheney, in which he said the vice president's attacks were born out of desperation.

"They had attacks, but we had the facts, and we released them for all to see: John Kerry is a decorated war hero who risked his life trying to save the lives of others," McAuliffe said. "His records say so, his superiors say so, and the 'Band of Brothers' he served with say so. End of discussion."

The Kerry campaign yesterday offered a conference call with former Sen. Max Cleland (D-Ga.), a triple amputee veteran of the Vietnam War and one of Kerry's most conspicuous "Band of Brothers," to counter growing Republican attacks.

"As I travel around the country and meet the increasing number of our 'Band of Brothers,' they're interested in having one of their own in the White House, not someone who's going to give them a raw deal," Cleland told reporters.

But despite Democrats' claims, it may not be the end of the discussion as long as veterans are willing to discuss their opposition to their fellow veteran and Republicans can capitalize on their anger.

For his part, Magruder is circulating a documentary titled, How the Campus Lied About Vietnam, which he says gives veterans "a chance to talk about how Kerry's actions in 1971 hurt them when they went home, and hopefully they'll go on from there to different reasons why they don't want him for commander in chief."

Marie Horrigan is the deputy Americas editor for UPI, a sister news organization of Insight.

[secretagent]

"I was accusing American leaders of abandoning the troops. And if you read what I said, it is very clearly an indictment of leadership," he told CNN's Judy Woodruff in February. "I said to the Senate, where is the leadership of our country?

Kerry said a bit more than that. He described in graphic detail atrocities committed "up close and personal" upon civilians by US soldiers, and he cited the testimony of the Winter Soldier Investigation" as his main evidence.

Given the proven past sloppiness Mark Lane, one of the organizers of the WSI, Kerry could have shown more caution in accepting the truth of the testimony given at the WSI.

[secretagent]

correction: insert "of":

...sloppiness of Mark Lane...

[BadAndy]

Kerry bugged out on a technicality and proceded to indict all his comrades in arms as war criminals and to undermine their efforts. He was largely responsible for their being spit on and called baby killers. He helped turn the US against the war while encouraging our enemies. Now he is trying to use his participation in a war he claimed was unjust, for personal political gain. Right John, no hard feelings. The man is an F-ing Benedict Arnold.

[Redcoat LI]

"85 percent of the veterans he dealt with are against Kerry winning the presidency."

So much for the "veterans" vote,Frenchy.

I guess you'll have to win with Union Thugs,Tree Huggers and the usual assortment of perverts and socialists. And your Manservants vote.

[kellynla]

Excellent piece.

And now we know that Kerry's first Purple Heart was BOGUS!


Semper Fi,
Kelly

[Militiaman7]

Give Ketchup Boy a break, He was in Vietnam don't ya know.

By the way even Benedict Arnold was a hero before he was a traitor.

[man of Yosemite]

I guess you can say that Kerry was for the Viet Nam War before he was against it. It's just a continual pattern of playing to the masses for their support and accolades. Now he wants to demonstrate against the Iraq War and be proud of his Viet Nam service. He's nothing more than a chameleon. Tie a string around his neck and wear him to school to ammuse your friends.

[RetiredArmy]

Well, I'm one veteran who sure as hell ain't his brother, sister, uncle, aunt or anything else closely related to this dirt bag socialist.

[pghkevin]

Just a question; Did any other members of Kerry's boat receive Mebbins or Ridals (being that they are interchangable) during the same period, or was Kerry the only award hawk?

[Sun]

Write a "letter to the editor" in your hometown about Kerry and mention www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.org.

[secretagent]

I guess you can say that Kerry was for the Viet Nam War before he was against it.

I think he opposed the war before enlisting. He wrote an article or gave a speech at his university - something like that.

Paging the authority: IT.

Visit his premier site, wintersoldier.com:

http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/

[secretagent]

Just a question; Did any other members of Kerry's boat receive Mebbins or Ridals (being that they are interchangable) during the same period, or was Kerry the only award hawk?

Don't know.

[Future Useless Eater]

Kerry was for the Viet Nam War before he was against it.

LOL. Good one!

---

I support Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry
* Kerry's-fishy-vietnam-participation
* Kerry led the anti-American group that SLIMED Vietnam veterans
* The "Kerry-Gas-Tax" Calculator (scroll down)

---

[donozark]

Well said! Kerry doesn't speak for me, or most other VN vets I know. In fact, I carry that infamous quote around with me and show it to some of these guys that seem to have forgotten what he said about us.

No one ever called me a "...murderer,rapist and corpse mutilator," to my face that is...

How the hell Kerry gets by on this is beyond me. I break wind in his general direction.

[onedoug]

Everything about Kerry's so-called "service" stinks.

[Interesting Times]

Kerry strongly opposed American involvement in Vietnam before he ever fought there. Sailing across the Pacific at the very beginning of his first tour, he learned of the death of a "Skull and Bones" friend from Yale, and wrote this to his parents:

Dearest Mama and Papa. What can I say? I am empty, bitter, angry and desperately lost with nothing but war, violence and more war around me. I just don't believe it was meant to be this cruel and senseless -- that anyone could possibly get near to Persh to take his life. What a Goddamn total waste. Why? . . . I have never felt so void of feeling before. . . . With the loss of Persh something has gone out of me -- he was so much a part of my life at the irreplaceable, incomparable moments of love, concerns, anger and compassion exchanged in Bones that can never be replaced. -- source

[Interesting Times]

Many thanks for the plug. Check's in the mail...

it's a very small check

[Militiaman7]

I will not slam ketchup boy for serving in Vietnam I believe it was honorable although short. However it was his attitude and behavior after he got back that I have heartburn about.

Like I said even Benedict Arnold was a hero before he became a TRAITOR and John effin Kerry is certainly a TRAITOR IMHO!

[Hunble]

Question: What was Kerry's rank in Vietnam? Was he drafted, enlisted or an officer?

In 1973, I willingly enlisted into the U.S. Army once I was old enough. At that time, I was absolutely disgusted with the treason expressed from a select minority of Americans and swore that I would do my duty as a citizen.

I proudly served 20 years with the U.S. Army.

For the men that were drafted and had no choice, I could understand their point of view. However, the vast majority of American men who protested against the war in Vietnam were simply cowards. There was nothing patriotic about their protests, they were simply scared.

It does not matter what Sen. Kerry did while in Vietnam. He betrayed his country and aided the enemy once he returned. No matter how many medals he was awarded during his time in service, his actions after his return betrayed himself and every other man and woman who willingly served.

By the time I finished Basic Training, the war in Vietnam was ending. History could have changed very quickly, and I was prepared to do what my country needed.

Unless Sen. Kerry was drafted, his actions after returning can not be forgiven! NEVER

[KC Burke]

You and I, and all his contemporaries, can fail him on the question of character based on the style of his service, its particulars and his conduct with his leftist antiwar schemes he set up and promoted. That judgment alone would not make "Vietnam" or his service an issue in the election -- instead just a question of character from his past.

What makes Vietnam and his service a campaign issue to the media and his opponents is his promotion of it as a remedy and cure to his record on Defense.

As a proponent of appeasement when diplomacy runs its course instead of the extension of American power, when needed in our strategic interests, he looks poor on defense.

As a Senator, he has voted against all forms of bills on military size, arms, compensation and promotion for readiness. That makes him look poor on defense.

As one who promotes UN and other international forums for control of US military efforts, rather than leadership and welcoming all that follow just actions, he looks poor on defense.

As one who promoted unilateral disarmament and other actions that would have failed in the Cold War, he looks poor on defense.

Well, what did he do as a remedy for this poor appearance?

He chose to promote his Vietnam Service, suspect as it was and hopelessly tied to his antiwar activities that followed, and promote it as evidence and testimonial to his alleged credentials on the issue of defense.

His promotion of that made it an issue. He could of instead, let it all lay and run on a record of the last 20 years of national service and it would have been only discussed by you and I and those like us.

Every commercial, every campaign stop, every press release and every reference to the issue by supporters was used as a chance to attempt to trump an obviously poor record with his glamor boy escapades. How can those escapades and his actions thereafter not be an issue? How can a trump that isn't a trump be honored?

[DustyMoment]

. . . </>estimating that 85 percent of the veterans he dealt with are against Kerry winning the presidency.

Make that 86% - this veteran wouldn't support Kerry for dogcatcher, undertaker or pooperscooper. He is a pathological liar (AKA Democrat) and a criminal.

[onedoug]

I will.

Thanks.

[RetiredArmy]

Kerry was in the Navy I believe. He was a lieutenant, but what grade I am unsure of, but either an 01, 02 or 03 since the Navy calls an 03 a lieutenant as the Army, Marines and Air Force call an 03 a captain.

I also enlisted. I was 18 going on 19. I spent my 19th birthday on our final one week field problem in Advanced Infantry Training (AIT) in the sand and swamps of Fort Jackson, South Carolina. From there I got a two-week leave and off to An Khe in the Central Highlands of RVN I went, to join the 4th Infantry Division there.

[North Coast Conservative]

Questions about his first Purple Heart, certainly derrogatory remarks made about him chasing down a wounded VietCong and offing him to get his Silver Star. (I believe that it a War Crime) Three Purple Hearts and only two days of light duty. Taking advantage of the Three and Out rule, and actively seeking those Hearts starting the second day he was in country. Shameful

His work with VVAW and Jane Fonda once he came back to the States. Meeting with the Viet Cong and the North Vietnamese in Paris in '70 and '71 Traitorous

I have put together a front and back piece detailing his activities with VVAW, the Viet Cong, and the NVA on one side, and on the other side all the weapons systems he has voted against since he has been a Senator. I am distributing them to American Legion, VFW, and Marine Corps League posts/detachments in my area, and offering more information if anyone wants it.

He is no friend of the Vietnam Veteran, our service men and women, or the citizens of the United States. We sell our bumper stickers at cost to anyone who wants them. The idea is not to make money, but to spread the word.

In God We Trust…..Semper Fi!

[Hunble]

My point is rather simple: If Kerry was drafted, then I could understand his actions once he was released from the Navy.

If he was an Officer, THERE IS NO EXCUSE!

Even 30 years later, he should be Court Marshaled under the UCMJ.

[Hunble]

I spent my 19th birthday on our final one week field problem in Advanced Infantry Training (AIT).

I will not call you Sir, since you worked for a living. However, you did your country proud and understood your duty as a citizen.

I am proud of you!

[RetiredArmy]

Well they say he was a lieutenant in the Navy and one photo of him shows a small bar on his shirt collar, so he was some type of Navy officer. Thus, NOT drafted. I do not believe he went to the Naval Academy. He was probably like Navy ROTC or something like that.

[RetiredArmy]

And continue to work for a living!!! Yes, from private (E-1) to Sergeant First Class (E-7) to Sergeant First Class (E-7), US Army (Retired)!!! And stinking damned proud of it!!! To hell with the leftists! Sorry for speaking kerry french ladies!

[Militiaman7]

Give ketchup boy the benefit of the doubt only because he wore the uniform and did go to Vietnam.

Maybe he didn't earn the medals/ribbons maybe he did, I wasn't there, but compared to Klintoon who ran and hid in London and Moscow, Kerry and even AlGore deserve some recognition. To a point.

Having said that, Kerry has by his behavior after returning from Vietnam and in the US Senate lost all respect and honor he did earn by serving. All vets should publically denounce him.

His treachery far outweighs his service.

[Hunble]

I went from E-1 to E-5 with the Artillery and eventually wound up as a meteorologist. Don't ask, but the U.S. Air Force demanded that the U.S. Army no longer have that enlisted function, so we were given a choice.

Same job and I even had the same desk. However, my pay increased over three times the amount between Friday and Monday the next week. After that, I had to act like an officer. *Groan*

Oh well, such is the life of an Army meteorologist.

And you think that the weather is confusing?

[kabar]

I will not slam ketchup boy for serving in Vietnam I believe it was honorable although short.

That is like saying you support the troops but not the mission. Kerry bugged out after 4 months leaving his shipmates behind. He used an obscure technicality to leave and there is a question about the validity of one of his PHs, which was part of his ticket out. I don't consider those actions honorable.

[MamaLucci]

"Usually an officer like that would be referred over to a psych eval[uation]," he said.

A very telling comment, IMHO.

[kabar]

My point is rather simple: If Kerry was drafted, then I could understand his actions once he was released from the Navy. If he was an Officer, THERE IS NO EXCUSE!

Kerry was released from active duty, effective Jan 3, 1970. He was transferred into the inactive Reserve until July 1972 to finish his reserve obligation. Kerry was subject to involuntary recall during that two year period and had to notify the nearest reserve unit if he travelled abroad for more than 30 days or resided overseas. He had to leave a contact address.

During the period 1970-2, Kerry was engaged in his antiwar activities with the radical VVAW, Jane Fonda, and Ramsey Clark among others. He also traveled to Paris to meet with the Communist Vietnamese and returned to advocate the enemy's peace plan, point by point, before Congress.

Kerry was transferred into the Naval Reserves (standby) in July 1972 and finally discharged in 1978.

[kabar]

Kerry went through OCS. He left active duty as a LTJG and was promoted to LT (O-3) the day afterwards.

[Hunble]

Timothy McVeigh

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Timothy James McVeigh (April 23, 1968 - June 11, 2001) was an American domestic terrorist convicted and sentenced to die for his part in the April 19, 1995 Oklahoma City bombing. Hundreds were injured and 168 men, women and children died when a truck loaded with improvised explosives was detonated in front of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building as federal offices began business for the day.

McVeigh was a decorated veteran of the United States Army, having served in the Gulf War, where he was awarded a Bronze Star. He had been a top scoring gunner with the 25 mm cannon on lightly armored Bradley Fighting Vehicles used by the US 1st Infantry Division to which he was assigned. He deployed to Iraq from Fort Riley, in Kansas.

---------------

What you do while in the military is highly honored. However, what you do after your return to civilian life is just as, or even more important.

There is no excuse for an Officer doing what Kerry did. None!

[kabar]

What you do while in the military is highly honored.

I don't understand your point. Kerry did receive an honorable discharge, the same as McVeigh. However, if Kerry obtained a PH under false pretenses and then used it to bug out early, then I don't believe his service should be "highly honored."

[Militiaman7]

before he went to the dark side he donned the uniform and went to Vietnam that's as far as I give him credit.

After arriving in country he went bad and from then on in or out of Vietnam his behavior as a opportunist, betrayer, turncoat and traitor plus his voting record in the US Senate has eaned my disdain and hopefully that of every Vet.

I loathe John Kerry for what he did to Vietnam Vets I hate him for his betrayal of his comrades and his lack of support for the US Military.

By the way the POS was voting against everything military for 7 of my 20 years in the USAF, 4 while my son was in the Air Force and now when he's in the US Army getting ready to go to Afganistan.

[Hunble]

"if Kerry obtained a PH under false pretenses... "

If so, should he not be subject to a Court Martial under the UCMJ?

Sen. Kerry started this and we, as veterans, are not going to let it go.

The more I learn about Kerry's military and anti-war activities, the more I am convinced of criminal activity.

And let us not forget about his confession of war crimes...

[kabar]

As a former naval officer and Vietnam veteran, I detested Kerry in 1971 (I happened to have been stationed in WASHDC at the time) and I dislike him even more as more and more comes out concerning his service and antiwar activities. He is a self-promoting opportunist who has used his miliary service to further his political ambitions.

I also think he has a screw loose. Anyone who would update his DD214 in March 2001 to reflect some additional bronze service stars on his Vietnamese Service Ribbon has some issues. Kerry is obsessed with his medals and flaunts his military service. Here is a guy who threw away his medals/ribbons, admitted to war crimes, defamed all of his military comrades, and now claims that he is proud of his service and his medals. That's called chutzpah.

[BlueLancer]

Where can I get a bumpersticker like the "Kerry/Fonda" one?

[North Coast Conservative]

FReepmail me your address and I will send you one out, along with a bill for $1.30. *G*

In God We Trust…..Semper Fi!

[F.J. Mitchell]

How true. Some of Kerry's brothers are sisters. Devil made me type that.

Wonder if those atrosities stopped when ketchup boy completed his four month tour of duty and went home to devote the rest of his life to aiding and abetting Ho Chi Min?

[DMZFrank]

I served has a tank commander on an M48A3 tank on the DMZ in Vietnam. I killed enemy soldiers with the cupola mounted Browning M2 50 caliber machine gun that it was equipped with. My gunner killed enemy soldiers with 90 mm canister rounds from the main gun. I don't care what John Kerry says or implied at the Winter Soldier hearings, and in an interview on the Dick Cavett show, I am not a war criminal, nor was my gunner. When I later transferred to a Mech infantry outfit, I directed H&I mortar and artillery fire on suspected enemy routes of movement. I am not a war criminal for having done that either.

I will never vote for a man who has so calumnied his comrades in arms, met in Paris with officials of the NLF, an organization that was killing his comrades in arms, for his personal political gain. Benedict Arnold was a great hero at the Battle of Saratoga, but that does not change the fact that he was also a traitor.

[secretagent]

I don't know if you have seen wintersoldier.com:

http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/

They have a letters section called "Incoming" that could use your memories.

I don't care what John Kerry says or implied at the Winter Soldier hearings, and in an interview on the Dick Cavett show, I am not a war criminal, nor was my gunner.

Kerry cited the Winter Soldier Investigation as his main evidence of routine US war crimes in Vietnam, and it remains an accepted valid document of history by many.

If you can add to the voices challenging it, we might eventually get a detailed look into the authenticity of the WSI witnesses.

[Future Useless Eater]

					April 29, 2004
			George W. Bush
						2,000.00
	Two Thousand and oo/100 - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
		Thanks guys ! Semper Fi !		John Q. Public

[Future Useless Eater]

					April 29, 2004
			George W. Bush
						2,000.00
	Two Thousand and oo/100 - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
		Thanks Gang !		John Q. Public

[Future Useless Eater]

					April 29, 2004
			George W. Bush
						2,000.00
	Two Thousand and oo/100 - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
		Thanks Gang !		John Q. Public

[secretagent]

Wonder if those atrosities stopped when ketchup boy completed his four month tour of duty and went home to devote the rest of his life to aiding and abetting Ho Chi Min?

I think Kerry had and has a singular devotion to his own career.

He traded on the outrage over the initial cover-up of the My Lai massacre to imply that such crimes took place routinely. He did this even though Mark Lane, author of "Conversations With Americans", had recently got debunked by reviewer Neil Sheehan, who named the names of false US atrocity witnesses in Lane's book.

Lane, seeing like Kerry a career opportunity, apparently rushed his book to print to capitalize on the outrage over the initial My Lai cover-up and subsequent under-prosecution of "Charlie Company".

Kerry blurred the line between real war crimes like My Lai, as documented by the exhaustive research of the Peers Commission, and alleged war crimes only "verified' by checking easy-to-fake DD 214 discharge papers of the alleged WSI Vets.

Given the proximity of Mark Lane to the "Winter Soldier Investigation" (Jane Fonda helped fund the event and insisted on his involvement, despite his bad press from Sheehan's book review), I have extra scepticism over the validity of the WSI claims. I would have expected the same scepticism from Kerry, who comes across as so perpetually moral and seemingly intelligent.

Sheehan complained that the sloppiness of Lane's work made it harder for true whistle-blowers to get a serious investigation into their claims.

It looks to me like Kerry has followed Lane's pattern, adding his own special "stage presence".

[Future Useless Eater]

					April 29, 2004
			George W. Bush
						2,000.00
	Two Thousand and oo/100 - - - - - - - - - - - - -
		Thanks gang ! ! !		John Q. Public

[secretagent]

No vote for Kerry here.