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Muslims seek to worship in Spanish Cathedral [BARF ALERT]
BBC News ^ | 01 May 2004 | Malcolm Billings

Posted on 05/01/2004 10:42:04 AM PDT by MegaSilver

In southern Spain, once the centre of an Islamic civilisation in Europe, the Muslim community has appealed to the Vatican to be allowed to pray alongside Christians in what was once the Great Mosque of Cordoba.

It is one of the oldest buildings in the Islamic world and one of the most beautiful.

The first thing I saw was a courtyard full of orange blossom. A fountain played in the middle.

I felt that I was already back in the Middle Ages making my way towards the entrance of the mosque itself.

The interior is stunning - a symmetrical forest of marble pillars supporting hundreds of graceful arches made of pink bricks.

Many of the marble pillars have a curiously Roman look about them.

Not really surprising. They were almost certainly dug out of a ruined Roman temple that still lies under the mosque.

The buildings under the mosque were used as a quarry and the best decorated bits and pieces fell neatly into place as the mosque took shape more than 1,200 years ago.

The Great Mosque became the spiritual heart of Cordoba when the city, with a population of about half a million, was the biggest and wealthiest in Europe.

The Muslim rulers of southern Spain had created an important cultural centre with a flourishing society made up of Jews, Christians and Arabs.

Appeal to Vatican

I made my way through the arches to the prayer niche, the Mihrab, which was added in the 10th Century, when Christian craftsmen from Constantinople were imported to decorate it with gold, red, green and turquoise coloured tiles.

The 1,000-year-old inscriptions in Arabic praising Allah are still there in this sacred area where Muslims hope to be allowed to pray. They have appealed to the Vatican to be allowed to do so.

The 500 or so Muslims now living in Cordoba have outgrown the small building given to them for prayers in one of the city's parks.

Standing by the prayer wall and facing Mecca I asked a cathedral guide what would happen if a Muslim fell to his knees and began to pray.

"Cathedral security would be here immediately. It's not allowed", she said. "This is cathedral, not a mosque."

And that is the moment when a visitor confronts modern reality.

The Great Mosque was turned into a church when Cordoba fell to the Christians in 1236. Its arcades were filled in to become chapels and shrines, and an altar was erected in one of the mosque's central aisles.

Controversial

For almost 300 years Christians worshipped in this curious makeshift cathedral, but in 1523 the pressure to replace the mosque built up in a militant society that had banished both Jews and Arabs.

The cathedral chapter got permission to build. But what happened is remarkable.

In other cities like Seville, as the re-conquest squeezed the Muslims out, mosques were demolished and churches covered the sites.

In this case, a new cathedral was built inside the mosque.

It is a shock which visitors today are rarely prepared for. Carved out of the centre of the building, using perhaps 20-25 per cent of the mosque's floor space, is a Renaissance church that could be one of a dozen small churches in Rome.

Marble walls and domes, gilded statues of Christ and the saints, and choir stalls superbly carved in mahogany won from the forests of Spain's new South American colonies, were erected.

They had built the smallest cathedral in Spain in the middle of the largest mosque. Even then the decision was controversial - the town council was against it and Charles V, who sanctioned the project, seemed to regret the intrusion after the deed was done.

Post-bombing fears

Archaeologist Isobel Martinez Richter believes that ''people then must have thought of the mosque as a symbol of tolerance and that the decision not to demolish it was ''a sign of respect for the multicultural history of the city".

"The group who engineered this solution'', she added, ''must have been very wise - I only wish we knew their names."

Spaniards still take pride in their multicultural roots. The wave of immigration from Morocco to fill the jobs created by a booming economy has created few problems.

But since 9/11 and the terrorist attacks in Madrid, can that tolerance be sustained?

The attacks profoundly shocked Spaniards, many of whom are bewildered by the way Muslim fundamentalism has targeted Spain.

Fear and suspicion of Muslims have become part of every day life. It is hardly a propitious time for discussion about Muslim prayers in Cordoba's cathedral, but local politicians have not ruled it out. Now is not the time though to debate the issue, they say.

Isabel Romero, a Spanish convert to Islam, told a local paper that being allowed to pray in the cathedral is not about claiming anything and much less about re-conquering.

"It does not make sense", she said, "that when Muslims go to pray they are told to get up."

Southern Spain has many superb Islamic buildings from the past - the Alhambra palace at Granada is one of the best known. In Seville the city's great landmark is the massive minaret of the 12th century mosque.

Cordoba's mosque however is a unique survival - saved only because of a decision in the sixteenth century to insert a Renaissance cathedral in the middle of the building.

Perhaps Friday prayers may once again be heard in one of the finest buildings on the list of World Heritage sites.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: agitprop; anticatholic; antichristian; antiwesternism; bbc; bbcbias; cathedral; christianity; christians; cordoba; crusades; culturewar; dhimmi; dhimmis; islam; islammeanspeace; islamofascism; islamofascists; lyingliars; mediabias; mosque; mosques; muslims; pc; politicallycorrect; religion; religionofpeace; religionofpeacetm; religiousintolerance; spain; spanishmuslims; turass
The original title of this piece was, "Muslims seek to worship in ancient mosque."

I think if anyone had any doubts about the credibility of the BBC, no one will doubt now that they are completely biased and unreliable.

1 posted on 05/01/2004 10:42:05 AM PDT by MegaSilver
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To: MegaSilver
The only thing im willing to give muslims these days is a statue of Mohammed getting screwed from behind by a hog.
2 posted on 05/01/2004 10:44:53 AM PDT by cripplecreek (you tell em i'm commin.... and hells commin with me.)
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To: MegaSilver
Isabel Romero, a Spanish convert to Islam, told a local paper that being allowed to pray in the cathedral is not about claiming anything and much less about re-conquering. (?)

I beg to differ with "Isabel". When Spain left Iraq, it meant the return of the Moors.
Poor Spain. No more pork.

3 posted on 05/01/2004 10:54:01 AM PDT by elbucko
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To: MegaSilver
the link above still has "Muslims seek to worship in ancient mosque."
4 posted on 05/01/2004 10:54:28 AM PDT by Pikamax
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To: MegaSilver
The 500 or so Muslims now living in Cordoba have outgrown the small building given to them for prayers in one of the city's parks.

Easy solution. Quit breeding.

He dicho.

5 posted on 05/01/2004 10:55:52 AM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: MegaSilver
just an addendum...this topic got a fair bit of discussion last night:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1127723/posts
6 posted on 05/01/2004 10:56:50 AM PDT by VOA
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In a word: "no."

In two words:

Hell No!

7 posted on 05/01/2004 10:57:49 AM PDT by gemoftheocean (geez, this is all straight-forward and logical to me....)
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To: Pikamax
Tell Spain that this is the beginning of their lesson in "How Appeasement Works 101".
8 posted on 05/01/2004 10:59:22 AM PDT by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: MegaSilver
The Muslim rulers of southern Spain had created an important cultural centre with
a flourishing society made up of Jews, Christians and Arabs.


Yeah, and they all sang Kumbayah (sp?) all day long.
Right...

Realistically, it is simply amazing what a peaceful, ideal utopia one can
attain when the Muslim overseers can lop off the head if somebody twitches the wrong way.
(end sarcasm)
9 posted on 05/01/2004 10:59:51 AM PDT by VOA
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To: MegaSilver
the Muslim community has appealed to the Vatican to be allowed to pray alongside Christians in what was once the Great Mosque of Cordoba.

Right after we get Hagia Sophia back as a church, and the Church that was on the Dome of the Rock.
10 posted on 05/01/2004 11:02:25 AM PDT by Kozak (Anti Shahada: " There is no God named Allah, and Muhammed is his False Prophet")
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To: MegaSilver
What is not mentioned is that the mosque was built on the site of a Visigothic church destroyed by the Muslims when they overran Spain.

Some of the lamps at the mosque were made from the metal produced by melting down the bells of the basilica at Santiago de Compostela, when the Muslims attacked and conquered that area.

BTW, the Vatican was asked about this and refused to permit it. So hopefully, despite the dreams of Spanish leftists, who are enchanted with the idea, this plan is dead.
11 posted on 05/01/2004 11:03:59 AM PDT by livius
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To: MegaSilver
I'm all for it:

Let's start with a Public Stoning of a RAPED WOMAN!
12 posted on 05/01/2004 11:14:09 AM PDT by observer5
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To: livius
Thanks for the additional info.

The Muslims' HALF-TRUTH provokes a repeat of the American delineation of Truth:

"The Truth, the Whole Truth and Nothing But the Truth, so help me God."

13 posted on 05/01/2004 11:28:38 AM PDT by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: Kozak
Right after we get Hagia Sophia back as a church, and the Church that was on the Dome of the Rock.

Even then, no way.

This "Mosque" in question was a Church before the Moors invaded, then they turned it into a Mosque, THEN when Spain reconquered it, it became a Cathedral.

14 posted on 05/01/2004 11:30:21 AM PDT by MegaSilver (Training a child in red diapers is the cruelest and most unusual form of abuse.)
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To: MegaSilver
How about Christian services in the ancient cathedral now mosque in Istanbul, Hagia Sofia? or allowing Jews to worship on the site of the Temple in Jerusalem now the Dome of the Rock mosque?
15 posted on 05/01/2004 11:35:39 AM PDT by The Great RJ
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To: The Great RJ
How about Christian services in the ancient cathedral now mosque in Istanbul, Hagia Sofia?

Trust me: you're not the first person to bring that up. :)

16 posted on 05/01/2004 11:37:06 AM PDT by MegaSilver (Training a child in red diapers is the cruelest and most unusual form of abuse.)
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To: MegaSilver
The 500 or so Muslims now living in Cordoba have outgrown the small building given to them for prayers in one of the city's parks. >>>>>>>>>

So let them raise money and build a mosque. No one on God's green earth owes them a place to pray.

17 posted on 05/01/2004 11:45:06 AM PDT by Lion Den Dan
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To: MegaSilver
How about Hagia Sofia and the Dome of the Rock, and...


...nevermind.
18 posted on 05/01/2004 12:41:09 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Why the long face, John?)
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To: MegaSilver
"I think if anyone had any doubts about the credibility of the BBC, no one will doubt now that they are completely biased and unreliable."

Bias is one thing: stupidity is something else. The British along with most of Europe are so forgetful. Historian Gibbon said that the Christian Charles Martel's victory over Rahman in on October 10, 732 at the Battle of Tours insured that spires would be built in Oxford instead of minarets. With all the Church of England cathedrals being taken over by muslims in the last thirty years, Gibbon could be proven wrong, if the average Brit continues a pusilanimous support for Islam. Tony Blair needs some popular back-up or he will cave to Chamberlainese spinelessness.

Muslims have not forgotten their Andalusia (moorish Spain), nor have they forgotten Tours for that matter and they are intent on revisiting those conflicts with different results.
19 posted on 05/01/2004 1:00:38 PM PDT by Radtechtravel (Proud member of vast right wing conspiracy since '92)
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To: All
I am posting two excerpts from books dated 1856. This is the first. It was written by J.O Noyes and are basically his journey diaries.

The Old Toloon is the most ancient Mosque in Grand Cairo (879 A.D.).

Before the French Expedition to Egypt neither Christians or Jews were permitted to ride by the Tooloon, or in fact, any other mosque in Cairo, on horseback.

If it be from respect for your places of worship," protested Napoleon to the Ulemas, "that you forbid Christians and Jews to ride before your mosques, why do you not observe the same rule yourselves? Is it reasonable to demand testimonies of veneration from strangers that you yourselves do not give". The argument was unanswerable.

Puts a little bit of perspective on the Muslim request. The second one describes Cordoba (Cordova) and the Temple. It must have been used as a source for the original article "rather plageristic) as several unusual words are noticeable. I'll post it separately.

20 posted on 05/01/2004 1:06:25 PM PDT by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: MegaSilver
I'm only amazed it's taken them so long after successfully changing the entire country's government 6 weeks ago without the slightest fuss. The national religion will fall just as easily and then it's on to the next toppling.
21 posted on 05/01/2004 1:18:00 PM PDT by mtbopfuyn
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To: MegaSilver
This may be one of the only Mosques in Europe that doesn't have a large stash of weapons inside.
22 posted on 05/01/2004 1:49:43 PM PDT by aynrandfreak (If 9/11 didn't change you, you're a bad human being)
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To: MegaSilver
Those Mohammedan heretics are out of their minds...
23 posted on 05/01/2004 1:53:01 PM PDT by Bismarck
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To: MegaSilver
Simple answer. Tear the mosque down.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F
24 posted on 05/01/2004 5:02:51 PM PDT by Criminal Number 18F
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To: MegaSilver
This article is a hellova biased piece of PC crap. The CHURCH was a CHRISTIAN CHURCH before the Muslim ISLAMOFASCISTS conquored Spain. It was converted to a mosque and made the cornerstone of an Islamic empire in the West. The article makes mention of when it fell (back) to Christians.

Such utter misleading trash.

25 posted on 05/02/2004 1:40:12 AM PDT by weegee (JFinKerry used the words Medals and Ribbons interchangeably before he didn't.)
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To: MegaSilver
Folks, I see myself as being a decent, opened-minded kinda guy. But increasingly, whenever I see the word "Muslim," I think the word "Nazi."

Guess that makes me a bigot. I feel ashamed about that, but my reaction is rational.

I've been critical of Ann Coulter here, but I think she was right. We have to convert these people or they'll kill our grandchildren one day.

26 posted on 05/02/2004 2:56:02 AM PDT by My Dog Likes Me
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To: MegaSilver
The BBC will cheer loudly when peace-loving Muslims bomb the cathedral or merely threaten to and the Spanish civil authorities demand that Muslims take over the cathedral and the Catholics get out. It's so predictable it's sickening.
27 posted on 05/02/2004 3:07:33 AM PDT by hershey
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To: MegaSilver
unreal...what planet am I on?
28 posted on 05/02/2004 3:08:53 AM PDT by cyborg
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To: Lion Den Dan
Speaking of building a mosque I was watching The Last Witness on PBS the other night, the Helen Mirren/Jane Tennison police caper. A scene took place in London where various characters were walking on what looked like a temporary bridge/walkway near the Thames. London's skyline was in the background, and there, near what I presume was the dome of St. Paul's was what looked like a huge blue tiled phallic symbol, half-completed. Is this a mosque? Since the plot of the story turned on Muslims' being massacred in Bosnia and the villains getting caught years later in London, I thought that's what the choice of locality was all about. A not so subtle PC whack on the viewers' heads.
29 posted on 05/02/2004 3:14:41 AM PDT by hershey
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To: My Dog Likes Me
Folks, I see myself as being a decent, opened-minded kinda guy. But increasingly, whenever I see the word "Muslim," I think the word "Nazi."

Guess that makes me a bigot. I feel ashamed about that, but my reaction is rational.

I'm in the same position as you.

I've been critical of Ann Coulter here, but I think she was right. We have to convert these people or they'll kill our grandchildren one day.

It chills me just to think of it...

30 posted on 05/02/2004 10:13:58 AM PDT by MegaSilver (Training a child in red diapers is the cruelest and most unusual form of abuse.)
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