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The Clash of Civilizations and the Great Caliphate
E mailed to me | Jan. 29,04 | Larry Abraham

Posted on 05/01/2004 10:07:37 PM PDT by oceanperch

Edited on 05/02/2004 3:56:54 AM PDT by Sidebar Moderator. [history]

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To: rob777
The "caliphate" is a supreme leader over a unified Islamic empire who combines the functions of Prophet, Priest and King. Muslims like Bin Laden view the loss of the caliphate as the primary reason for the downfal of classical Islamic civilization.

That dovetails with this:

In matters political Islam is a system of despotism at home and aggression abroad. The Prophet commanded absolute submission to the imâm. In no case was the sword to be raised against him. The rights of non-Moslem subjects are of the vaguest and most limited kind, and a religious war is a sacred duty whenever there is a chance of success against the "Infidel". Medieval and modern Mohammedan, especially Turkish, persecutions of both Jews and Christians are perhaps the best illustration of this fanatical religious and political spirit.

Mohammed and Mohammedanism
1911 Catholic Encyclopedia

41 posted on 05/03/2004 6:31:18 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: GoLightly
Yes. I am descended from some Montforts (or de Montforts) in a John Baldwin/Mary Bruen line, but a lot of the old genealogies that people have been relying on to get into certain organizations have been thrown into doubt, so I would need to check the newest scholarship to see if the genealogy stuff I have is still valid.

I just ordered some "Great Migration" genealogy books by Anderson of the NEHGS. I don't much about this stuff, but it stimulated my imagination for a novel I drafted back when I first joined Montfort is the last name of my protagonist.

42 posted on 05/03/2004 10:37:38 AM PDT by Montfort
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To: mean lunch lady
The Caliph (or "Khalifa" in Arabic) is the heir, in both religious and political terms, to the "prophet" Mohammed. Over the centuries a number of dynasties in the Middle East have claimed that theirs is the one and true Caliphate and their leader is the Caliph. It was also, I believe, one of Saddam's claims for himself.
43 posted on 05/03/2004 10:54:04 AM PDT by katana
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To: oceanperch
Yes, they were/are. They were probably the MORO front.
They want/wanted a completely seperate Muslim nation to be given to them made up of the southern isles of the Philippines.

They were originally local fighters that contested the Spanish rule of the Philippines but were taken over by Muslims and since then have been at odds with anyone else in power including the USA and any government the Philippines has ever had.

44 posted on 05/03/2004 10:54:59 AM PDT by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: Celtman
Thanks for the info.
45 posted on 05/03/2004 10:55:13 AM PDT by mean lunch lady (You're just jealous cause the voices only talk to me.)
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To: oceanperch; Eagle9; freedox; chesty_puller; GRRRRR; MouthOfTheSouth; Memother; joan_30; ...
Larry Abraham BUMP

Read this important issue !!!
46 posted on 05/05/2004 3:02:10 PM PDT by ATOMIC_PUNK (If the price of Freedom be blood "So be it " I shall give all i have that our Children be FREE !!!)
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To: oceanperch
Are we supporting the war on Terror by buying foreign oil ?

Are we giving the money to the terrorists the cash to kill us by using their oil ?

47 posted on 05/05/2004 3:05:33 PM PDT by ATOMIC_PUNK (If the price of Freedom be blood "So be it " I shall give all i have that our Children be FREE !!!)
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To: oceanperch
Spent some time in your PI jungles, on more than one island, and occasionally came across some Huck-apinos or Huck-bala-hucks. Spelling may be wrong as I'm going from oral responses at the time. We thought they were communists, but then that was our greatest enemy at the time. They could've been Islamists. I belive General Pershing dealt with the Islamic Terrorists back when he was there. Anyway, those we encountered didn't remain.
48 posted on 05/05/2004 3:16:16 PM PDT by CplGrunt
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To: mean lunch lady
Today is the first I've seen of all this "CALIPHATE" stuff and am soaking up info fast. If there really is a "good" Islam, as the officials claim, how did get so insanely "bad"? I once heard an explanation that Mohammad espoused only good, peaceful things and he extolled his followers to live with the Jews and Christians in peace because they were the first people of God; then after the prophets death whoever took charge changed and added teachings to hate both as infidels. Now of course USA was founded by religious pilgrims, but they could read their bible and reflect for themselves what is "good" and "bad". I've heard that the middle eastern imams tell their flock what the Koran says because it is sacrilege to translate it and since they hold all the control -- they interpret it for their own power towers. The best way to keep a mob together is to give them a reason to hate someone else.
49 posted on 05/05/2004 3:34:27 PM PDT by CplGrunt
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To: oceanperch
Do you know where this article by Larry Abraham was published?
50 posted on 05/05/2004 3:43:20 PM PDT by CplGrunt
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To: rdb3
If we are going to have any long-lasting success, we need to go after Saudi Arabia.
51 posted on 05/05/2004 4:14:19 PM PDT by PFC
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To: oceanperch
I found some Moro info in Military History Mag April 2002

pg 34-40, titled "Fighting Islam's Fierce Moro Warriors" by David S. Woolman.

I was bored at the airport, so I make no claims as to how accurate or biased the author is, I just need to kill some time reading.
52 posted on 05/05/2004 5:17:45 PM PDT by all_mighty_dollar
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To: CplGrunt
Sounds reasonable to me. I understand the basics, but the whole thing is that for me, I just can't get why people would worship any God or creative force, whatever you call it, if the foundation is based on having to kill other people. But in the context of power, as you said, the leaders of the movement are the only ones who can tell others what the Koran says. Of course it will be whatever keeps them in power and exalts their positions. Many other leaders throughout the ages have been guilty of the same hold on the people they were supposed to be serving. The leaders of lots of different churches, and if you believe it to be accurate, the pharisees who were portrayed in the Passion of Jesus Christ as being jealous of their power. And of course in our more modern and enlightened age, Jesse Jackson, self proclaimed civil rights leader.
53 posted on 05/05/2004 6:56:31 PM PDT by mean lunch lady (The gene pool could use a little more chlorine.)
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Thanks for the ping!
54 posted on 05/05/2004 8:10:01 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: mean lunch lady
I also find it difficult to accept the notion that anyone or any people (civilization) would worship any god on the basis of murder, terrorism, and genocide. But then, the Canaanites worshiped other gods than the Israelites, which the Israelites worshiped part-time, and would sacrifice their firstborn sons in a bonfire pit to their version of mother nature for a good harvest. I'm not sure what bothers me more, the base of hate that hold these people to murder, terrorism, and genocide OR the overall and coordinated plan to systematically take over the world through "become a Muslim or die" conversion incentive on a person to person basis. At least the Nazi Army came at you with a frontal (and very deadly) assault in their attempt to acquire the world for their leaders. Heck, these Islamists (Islamic Terrorists in todays jargon - I don't care what group they historically came from nor what their lineage is) aren't just interested in eliminating just one group of people (Jews) but the entire population of the Earth -- unless we convert and bow to their leaders of course. I recently read that the best trick Satan pulled was to convince the world that he didn't exist.
55 posted on 05/06/2004 10:40:22 AM PDT by CplGrunt
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To: abcraghead; Andy from Beaverton; Archie Bunker on steroids; ARepublicanForAllReasons; ...
Enlight of the Aloha Lawyer who recently converted to Islam and whose fingerprints are reported to have been found in the Spain train bombing I thought this article would be of intersest to fellow Oregonians.
56 posted on 05/06/2004 11:10:50 PM PDT by oceanperch (King Vanity Parking Only all others will be towed)
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To: oceanperch
Death to all terrorists and to their supporters ~ Hang 'em High ~ Bump!
57 posted on 05/07/2004 10:15:28 AM PDT by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: blackie


58 posted on 05/14/2004 8:45:23 AM PDT by jacksonstate
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To: oceanperch

bump for later

59 posted on 05/14/2004 9:58:36 AM PDT by IDontLikeToPayTaxes
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To: IDontLikeToPayTaxes

A must read and must forward to everyone you know!!!!

60 posted on 05/14/2004 3:56:47 PM PDT by bfree (Liberals are EVIL!!!)
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