Fallujah: High Tide of Empire?

http://www.amconmag.com ^

[Hank Rearden]

What we NEED are Iraqi security forces that can help patrol the streets that are reliable.

No, we don't need that, they do. The Iraqis.

If they don't want a freer country, we certainly can't impose one on them. We remove threats to our interests (pretty much done), make sure future threats are contained and suppressed - then get the hell out and let the Iraqis set the course for their country.

The whole Fallujah story is demonstrating how ridiculous our efforts are becoming. If we have no interest in even avenging harm done to us, why are we staying? What's the point?

[Elkhound4]

running out of money may not seem to be a huge problem at the moment, but once mortage rates go back up above 8%, then the public will see that deficits do matter. Pat as usual is mostly right.

[Age of Reason]

Yes.

Outside of Japan and Germany and South Korea--where in all of them we still maintain troops to this day--where else have we been successful in nation building long term?

[ex-snook]

"This is partly thanks to Bush's tax cuts of course."

Bush's 'tax cuts' on the credit card for this generation are tax increases for the next.

[VRWC For Truth]

It's another of Pat's essays on the evils of the Joos ... how they tricked dumb old George Bush. Buchanan is a fascist who disguises himself as a conservative. Now that he is out of the loop, he sounds more like the Democrats. Pat, good riddence.

[jpsb]

SoD Rumsfield purged the penegon of top commenders that disagreed with his troops require accessment, and as you have noted, recent events are proving the accessment incorrect. Should other Cities turn into Fallujah's as they very well could, we might be in serious trouble and suffer serious loses.

[Age of Reason]

PJB's theory falls apart when confronted with the fact that the Islamists will attack us at home without provocation.

Why would they?

[jpsb]

I agree, not doing what we said we were going to do was a big mistake, not a fatal mistake, but we'd better learn to stop talking the talk if we are not going to walk the walk.

[jpsb]

Philippines

[metesky]

How come we can't take, hold and secure rebellious cities?

We can, in a heartbeat.

Neither world nor American opinion would put up with the carnage involved.

[Age of Reason]

"We *can* take [militarily] any city we want to in Iraq."

Of course we can--but only in a manner that helps to win America's objectives.

That is what makes this conflict so difficult, and the enemy knows that.

The larger battle being fought is for world opinion.

[jpsb]

I did not even notice the typo, I read it as "can". I have lots and lots of experience at correctly reading posts with typos since I read mine own posts too.

[fourfivesix]

"What we NEED are Iraqi security forces that can help patrol the streets that are reliable."

Which we don't have. The Iraqi forces have proven themselves unreliable. THerefore we have to use U.S. troops to do jobs that the Iraqi's should do but can't be trusted to.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3648489.stm

http://www.washingtontimes.com/world/20040422-114403-9180r.htm

"It's about supporting a positive political development, ie, democratic Iraq. That will be done mainly by Iraqis, not Americans."
Iraqis by and large have shown that they don't want democracy and those Iraqis who do aren't ready for it. All they want is for us to go and let them start slaughtering each other.

[AmericaUnited]

What a bitter loser growing more so with every passing year...

[metesky]

For instance, allied soldiers were still being killed in Germany long after the Nazis surrendered in May 1945. Indeed, some were killed as late as 1949. A 2000 History Today article about the Nazi "Werewolves" a guerrilla/terrorist movement founded by Heinrich Himmler in 1944, which fought the occupying forces of Britain, America, and the Soviet Union until at least 1947. (The History Today article can be found here; it was first cited by opinionjournal.com's "Best of the Web" in this context.)

[varon]

bump

[metesky]

Minutemen of the Third Reich.(history of the Nazi Werewolf guerilla movement)

[fourfivesix]

"when confronted with the fact that the Islamists will attack us at home without provocation"
Without provocation? What do you call the aspirin factories that the Klinton bombed to take his lewinsky affair off the frontpage news? I call it provocation.

[jpsb]

The get the hell out argument is becoming more persuasive everyday. We all know that the real enemy is radical Islam, so if we leave we will have to return. But if we are not going to fight the enemy and try to build a nation that Iraqis do not seem to want, what is the point of staying their?

Not sold on this argument yet, but it is a valid argument. Iran will soon have nukes, will patistan, which has nukes remain secular? Is any of this our business? Fortress America looking better and better every day.

[fourfivesix]

Obviously you didn't read the article. Buchanan never once mentions Zionism or Israel. Drop the fascist libel. The compassionate socialism of Bush's domestic policies come closer to national socialism than Buchanan ever has.