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The Koranís 111 Jihad Verses
By Yoel Natan ^ | Compiled By Yoel Natan

Posted on 05/02/2004 2:11:20 PM PDT by dennisw

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To: dennisw
There are some very kind, ecumenical and nice verses in the Koran. They are from Muhammad's early years. As he grew stronger the warrior-kult verses dominated and took over the Koran.

And in Islamic theology, if there is conflict between different verses, the chronologicly later one cancels the earlier one. The "sweetness and light" verses are thrown around for PR only -- being superceded, they have no force

21 posted on 05/02/2004 3:30:26 PM PDT by SauronOfMordor (That which does not kill me had better be able to run away damn fast.)
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To: antiRepublicrat
Point me to any verse in Scripture that commands its readers to violence. There is a lot of violence in the Old Testament, yes---even commands of genocide from God to the Israelites. But in Scripture it is placed in historical context; it does not form a doctrine of continued violence. The other poster commenting on your omission of the New Testament has a point, but I think that the Old Testament alone stands up well to scrutiny next to the Koran.
22 posted on 05/02/2004 3:32:40 PM PDT by mcg1969
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To: SauronOfMordor
In The Sunnah (The recorded words of Mohammod), there's even a whole chapter on Jihad. Follow the link for the whole chapter.

These are actually the Hadiths which are supplements, commentary, a fleshing out of the skimpy Koran.
Sunah means examples of Muhammad. Examples from the life he lead that Muslims should emulate. Mohammedanism is very big on emulating what they call the exemplary life of Mohamed.

The Hadith are chock full of Sunah, examples from Muhammad's worthy life

(Islamism is confusing and the above was written to the best of my knowledge)

23 posted on 05/02/2004 3:36:07 PM PDT by dennisw (GD is against Amalek for all generations)
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To: dennisw; VOA
The Islamic Sufis never subscribed to this Jihadist insanity. It would be nice if we could see more of them.
24 posted on 05/02/2004 3:39:20 PM PDT by ambrose (AP Headline: "Kerry Says His 'Family' Owns SUV, Not He")
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To: SauronOfMordor
His Sunnah (examples) and Hadith (sayings)
Sunnah and Hadith. In Islam, the Arabic word sunnah has come to denote
the way Prophet Muhammad (saws) lived his life. The Sunnah ...
isgkc.org/sunnah.htm - 6k - Cached - Similar pages

_________________

I'm confused?

25 posted on 05/02/2004 3:40:53 PM PDT by dennisw (GD is against Amalek for all generations)
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To: mcg1969
But in Scripture it is placed in historical context; it does not form a doctrine of continued violence.

If I had violence and conquest in my heart, I could easily use the OT for support. Same as these militant Muslims.

26 posted on 05/02/2004 4:38:29 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: Bommer
Isn't he the same God as in the New Testament?

Funny, isn't it? The omniscient, omnipotent, never-changing God seems to have gotten a lot more peaceful after Christ. But even the NT proscribes nasty punishment for the unbelievers. This punishment is done by God and angels, but then in the OT the Jews taking a city is always credited to God. Someone who wanted to do violence according to the NT could also use passages to validate it.

27 posted on 05/02/2004 4:49:06 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: Bommer
Isn't he the same God as in the New Testament?

Allah is NOT the God of the Old and New Testament.

(The name and symbolism of "Allah" is actually derived from the Moon god of the Egyptians, but that is a different discussion...)

28 posted on 05/02/2004 5:04:19 PM PDT by EternalHope (Boycott everything French forever. Including their vassal nations.)
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To: antiRepublicrat
I could also twist Jesus' words commanding his disciples to buy swords. If you have violence in your heart you could use the fortune from your latest fortune cookie. So what?

A literal reading of the Koran foments violence. It is unique among the major religious texts in that respect.

29 posted on 05/02/2004 8:03:08 PM PDT by mcg1969
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To: antiRepublicrat
The omniscient, omnipotent, never-changing God seems to have gotten a lot more peaceful after Christ. But even the NT proscribes nasty punishment for the unbelievers.

So which is it? Did he get more peaceful, or didn't he? To the extent he did it is only because his wrath and judgement has been placed upon the back of his Son.

This punishment is done by God and angels

Who said? Just because torment exists in Hell doesn't mean God or his angels actually performs it. God simply turns his back on those who don't believe---which it would seem is quite consistent with their choice.

but then in the OT the Jews taking a city is always credited to God.

Indeed. They were a particularly weak people in comparison to their neighbors, much of the time. They sure as heck couldn't do it alone.

Someone who wanted to do violence according to the NT could also use passages to validate it.

And as I said in another post, I could use a fortune cookie if I so chose. I think a balanced judgement, however, would demonstrate that the literal reading of the Koran commands violence, in the same way that a literal reading of the Bible condemns homosexuality. That liberals of both religions twist their scriptures to suit their purposes is another matter.

Don't get me wrong, were it in my power I would gladly encourage the proliferation of liberal, non-violent Islam. But true Islam it is not.

30 posted on 05/02/2004 8:12:46 PM PDT by mcg1969
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To: dennisw
Deuteronomy 7:1-2: "... the seven nations greater and mightier than thou; And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them."

Joshua 6:21: "And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.

Numbers 31:1-18: "...And they warred against the Midianites, as the Lord commanded moses, and they slew all the [adult] males. And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones...And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses...And Moses was angry with the officers of the host And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Ba'laam, to commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the Lord. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the female children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."

Psalms 137:8-9: "O Daughter of Babylon, doomed to destruction, happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us -- he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks."
31 posted on 05/02/2004 8:14:25 PM PDT by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: dennisw; All
Exodus 32:26-28: "Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the LORD's side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him. And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour. And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men."

Numbers 25:1-9: "And Israel abode in Shittim, and the people began to commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab. And they called the people unto the sacrifices of their gods: and the people did eat, and bowed down to their gods...And the LORD said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the LORD against the sun...And, behold, one of the children of Israel came and brought unto his brethren a Midianitish woman in the sight of Moses, and in the sight of all the congregation...And when Phinehas...saw it, he rose up...and took a javelin in his hand...and thrust both of them through."

1 Kings 18:17-40: "And it came to pass, when Ahab saw Elijah, that Ahab said unto him, Art thou he that troubleth Israel? And he answered, I have not troubled Israel; but thou, and thy father's house, in that ye have forsaken the commandments of the LORD, and thou hast followed Baalim. Now therefore send, and gather to me all Israel unto mount Carmel, and the prophets of Baal four hundred and fifty, and the prophets of the groves four hundred, which eat at Jezebel's table...And call ye on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of the LORD: and the God that answereth by fire, let him be God. And all the people answered and said, It is well spoken...Then the fire of the LORD fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench. And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces: and they said, The LORD, he is the God; the LORD, he is the God. And Elijah said unto them, Take the prophets of Baal; let not one of them escape. And they took them: and Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon, and slew them there."

Exodus 20:5-6 "Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."

32 posted on 05/02/2004 8:21:37 PM PDT by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: FreedomCalls
Historically and today, Muslim scripture and Hadith are calls for Jihad. The good Muslim is called to Jihad by the Koran and to emulate Mohammed's life of Jihad. Very unlike the Bible verses you have posted.
33 posted on 05/02/2004 9:24:51 PM PDT by dennisw (GD is against Amalek for all generations)
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To: dennisw
bumping. bookmarking and saving offline for later.
34 posted on 05/02/2004 9:26:34 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (Resolve to perform what you must; perform without fail that what you resolve.)
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To: antiRepublicrat
Man Allah sure is bloodthirsty.

Yeah, the god of the Old Testament was really peaceful.

The difference is that Christianity has been through a reformation and matured over 2000 years.

And Islamic New Testament is required or else their civilization will eventually go the way of the Aztecs, Carthage and the Kali-Thuggee worshippers.

35 posted on 05/02/2004 9:31:30 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (Resolve to perform what you must; perform without fail that what you resolve.)
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To: dennisw
And I always point out that those verses are actually from the books of the Jewish religion. The books of the Christian religion contains no such verses at all. Quite the opposite -- turn the other cheek, forgive them for they know not what they do, do unto others as you would have them do unto you, love thy neighbor, and so forth...
36 posted on 05/02/2004 9:49:38 PM PDT by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: FreedomCalls
And I always point out that those verses are actually from the books of the Jewish religion. The books of the Christian religion contains no such verses at all. Quite the opposite -- turn the other cheek, forgive them for they know not what they do, do unto others as you would have them do unto you, love thy neighbor, and so forth...

And the amusing part is the long record of Christian brutality, pogroms, anti Semitism in Europe. Some of it church promoted. Much of it church tolerated. While the Jews, with their bloodier holy book, never got to return much in kind to their tormenters.

To repeat. Jews are not commanded to emulate the bloodier passages in the Old Testament. 
OTOH Muslims are commanded to emulate the life of Muhammad. And Muhammad lead a life of blood. Though most Muslims will tell you their goal is to emulate the good parts of Muhammad's life

Quite the opposite -- turn the other cheek, forgive them for they know not what they do, do unto others as you would have them do unto you, love thy neighbor, and so forth...

And how did this all work out in practice, how Jews were treated in Europe?

37 posted on 05/03/2004 4:36:21 AM PDT by dennisw (GD is against Amalek for all generations)
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To: Centurion2000; mcg1969
The difference is that Christianity has been through a reformation and matured over 2000 years. And Islamic New Testament is required

Ding! We have a winner! Condemning Islam isn't good when your own religion has some pretty dark points to it, just realize that they're behind the times. Facing the might of the United States may just be what they needed to make them grow up quickly.

38 posted on 05/03/2004 7:24:01 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: antiRepublicrat
Criticism of conquest by Christianity is something to be addressed. The problem came about when Emperor Constantine hijacked Christianity and turned it into a State Church; Roman Catholicism. During the years when governments were wed to the Roman Catholic church, despots were able to use the latin liturgy to keep the masses ignorant and enoble themselves in a shroud of divinity.

This is precisely the method used by Mohammad when he plagiarized the religions of his day in order to lend himself the aura of divinity that gave him absolute power to plunder his world for booty.

Christianity has long since renounced this connection between rulers and the church.

http://www.prophetofdoom.net/
39 posted on 05/03/2004 7:41:54 AM PDT by OK
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To: ambrose; All
"The Islamic Sufis never subscribed to this Jihadist insanity"

That is my understanding as well. BTW, do you know if that 72 virgin thing is really in the Koran? If it is, it would be interesting to know the context.
40 posted on 05/03/2004 7:44:13 AM PDT by TEXOKIE (The Will of God is Good! Not my will, not my will, not my will, but Thine be done!)
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