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PHONY IRAQI ABUSE OUTRAGE SYNDROME
Regularguys.com ^ | 05/05/04 | Larry Wachs

Posted on 05/05/2004 8:05:46 AM PDT by slim mackerel

WHEN GOOD NEWS COMES OUT BAD

Happy Cinco de Drinko everybody!

There's is so much good news in the paper lately. Only problem is it's presented as bad.

The latest trick of the left, which proved incredibly effective last decade in helping Rodney King become a WMD, is to work up a lot of phony outrage at Iraqi prisoners being tortured and abused by our military.

"Iraqi Prisoner Urinated On!" And the problem is..? It's the least we can do, really. OK, you're in the Twin Towers on 9/11/01. What would you choose? Someone flying a packed airliner into your head or getting peed upon in the lobby? Thought so. To the anti-US news reporters the only American allowed to pee on others is R Kelly. The only outrageous thing to me is that the soldiers did not shout, "That's for Tillman and Pearl" while they were emptying their bladders on the kindly shepherds.

Yes, I know. Even Rumsfeld and Bush are outraged. What do you expect them to say? "Well, the White House believes that pissing on a guy has it's merits?" Don't they already have their hands full trying to explain to the mentally disabled of the print media the basic concepts of right vs. wrong and self-defense?

It's sad that the news media treats Michael Jackson better than our military. And it's sad that some people are eager to prosecute any of our military as war criminals before Saddam Hussein answers to his evil.

Abuse is necessary for the survival of a free state. These "prisoners" have another name. Enemy combatants. We are fighting dirty people who see Geneva Conventional warfare as old school. "Yo my sand nigga. That's a bunch of Babylonia. Knowwhatitisthatiamsayingtoyoumyfriend?"

As I said last year on the air to much hootery and derision, the eggshells upon which President Bush must walk to fight this war will continue to cause needless death. Lob a nuke and see what happens. It worked for the Japs. They sure as hell calmed down and concentrated on electronics and sushi.

Everytime we conquer a land everyone wins.When we fought Germany did anyone think it would yield some of the kinkiest porn America has ever seen? Tons of Jews driving Mercedes?

We whipped Russia's ass, everybody loves vodka now...more so than Raymond. It's even flavored for the 'tweens.

Britain and Canada...America's twin sons. We steal all their comedians and TV shows and make them better..Tom Green being the exception.

The South is in much better shape than the North these days. NASCAR is huge everywhere. We even succeed when we kick our own ass! That's how great this country is.

So before we weaken ourselves even further in the eyes of the Arab world by holding congressional hearings on the wedgie, let's make examples of the soldiers who have bravely farted in the face of evil by giving them medals that they can bring back home so John Kerry can toss them over a fence.

TOMORROW: MORE GOOD NEWS DISGUISED AS BAD

[IMG]http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2004/04/30/image614954x.jpg[/IMG] "I'm gonna win that immunity idol, dammit."


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Political Humor/Cartoons; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: abuse; alittlelitehazing; bush; iraq; iraqipow; rodneyking; rumsfeld; torture; war
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One of the funniest takes on the war this week.
1 posted on 05/05/2004 8:05:47 AM PDT by slim mackerel
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To: slim mackerel
Aint it the truth.
2 posted on 05/05/2004 8:09:13 AM PDT by Lijahsbubbe (John Kerry is a dingleberry)
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To: slim mackerel
Please explain how these "atrocities" are in any way worse than what is done during that most vicious of rituals, fraternity hell week.
3 posted on 05/05/2004 8:13:22 AM PDT by pabianice
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To: slim mackerel
The thing is, the same people working up faux outrage over this are the same folks who thought that Saddam's decades of torture on an enormous scale was unimportant.
4 posted on 05/05/2004 8:15:50 AM PDT by thoughtomator (yesterday Kabul, today Baghdad, tomorrow Damascus)
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: slim mackerel
Is such an arid region, they were giving the gift of the water of life..
6 posted on 05/05/2004 8:20:47 AM PDT by sheik yerbouty
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To: slim mackerel; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub; StarCMC; Kathy in Alaska; bentfeather; Bethbg79; ...
Giggle-snort-chuckle PING!

THANK YOU, Slim, for one of the best laughs this week!
7 posted on 05/05/2004 8:21:22 AM PDT by Old Sarge
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To: thoughtomator
The really interesting part is that it's quite telling when our liberal democrat politicians, particularly senators, are immediately joining ranks with Sadir's fighters.

The demcrat senators think they are snipers and Rumsfeld is in their sights.

It's no wonder we confuse the Arab World.

8 posted on 05/05/2004 8:22:40 AM PDT by blackdog (I feed the sheep the coyotes eat)
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To: pabianice
Please explain how these "atrocities" are in any way worse than what is done during that most vicious of rituals, fraternity hell week.

"The New Yorker magazine reported Saturday that it had obtained a 53-page U.S. military report that concluded that Iraqi prisoners had been subjected to "sadistic, blatant and wanton criminal abuses" at the prison, which before last year's U.S.-led invasion had been Saddam Hussein's primary killing ground for political enemies. The author of the report, identified by the New Yorker as Army Maj. Gen. Antonio M. Taguba, said it appeared that some of the inmates had been beaten and sodomized, perhaps with a broomstick or a chemical light." Source: http://www.latimes.com/la-fg-abuse2may02,1,3116542.story

You must have really enjoyed hell week!

The MPs at the prison in question have few duties. The are to secure the prison and ensure the safety of the prisoners. This isn't a fraternity.

9 posted on 05/05/2004 8:23:14 AM PDT by MACVSOG68
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To: slim mackerel
One thing we can be assured of...the lowest ranked person will be found guilty.
10 posted on 05/05/2004 8:23:52 AM PDT by stuartcr
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To: Old Sarge
yes very funny Sarge..
11 posted on 05/05/2004 8:25:36 AM PDT by Diva Betsy Ross (Every heart beats true for the red,white and blue)
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To: slim mackerel
I still can't believe that it is considered "torture" for Americans to make an Arab walk naked. Yet it's just acceptable rage for Arabs to drag American bodies behind their vehicles.
12 posted on 05/05/2004 8:33:52 AM PDT by 1Old Pro
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To: Old Sarge
There's is so much good news in the paper lately. Only problem is it's presented as bad.

Talk about putting the main point first, now that is Army style writing. Main point up front.

13 posted on 05/05/2004 8:34:01 AM PDT by Arrowhead1952 (John F'ing Kerry, dumbocRATs and the media support terrorists.)
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To: slim mackerel
Great post, slim!!

Perhaps you could forward this to the insane media pukes at cnnabccbsnbc? Naturally the best results would be if you could reset the type to crayon colors and block letters.....
14 posted on 05/05/2004 8:36:25 AM PDT by Howie66 ("America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our people.")
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To: MACVSOG68
You know, it's important to have a war every 20 years. A real ugly nasty one too. I for one don't want commanders in some future conflict my children may become involved in not having been shot at, had RPG's express delivered, gain experience in interrogating prisoners who's units may be preparing to regroup and kill my countrymen, or not having the real up-close smell of the smoldering entrails of a battle sight fresh in their mind.

I really don't care what our troops do to obtain information vital to the welfare of our troops, countrymen, and country. I have faith in their discretion.

Maybe next time Jihadi-boy is found at a roadside checkpoint with a RPG launcher in his car, he may be more likely to spill the beans if he knew the only plasma on the screen in the local jail is blood plasma.

15 posted on 05/05/2004 8:36:45 AM PDT by blackdog (I feed the sheep the coyotes eat)
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To: pabianice
You're kidding right?
16 posted on 05/05/2004 8:38:34 AM PDT by Valin (Hating people is like burning down your house to kill a rat)
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To: slim mackerel
It's sad that the news media treats Michael Jackson better than our military.

I've got dibs on using this as my tagline.

17 posted on 05/05/2004 8:38:44 AM PDT by dfwgator (It's sad that the news media treats Michael Jackson better than our military.)
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To: Old Sarge
BTTT!!!!!!!!
18 posted on 05/05/2004 8:40:10 AM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: LindaSOG
BTTT!!!!!!
19 posted on 05/05/2004 8:40:28 AM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: MACVSOG68
The MPs at the prison in question have few duties. The are to secure the prison and ensure the safety of the prisoners.

This isn't a fraternity.

You have it right, and because of those facts, I have certain reservations of the veracity of the controversial images, and the incredible fuss over the matter. There is something wrong with this entire situation. I can scarcely believe that American MPs would be so reckless, as they are being portrayed. They are well instructed on proper Military deportment under such circumstances

I am of the mind that we are simply not getting the entire story, and the more that we get mired in this controversy, the more we lose sight of the real objectives.

We ar in a War against terrorists, and their supporters.

20 posted on 05/05/2004 8:40:37 AM PDT by Radix (Reuters is the number one English language News Agency among Islamic terrorists.)
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To: LindaSOG
Bump!
21 posted on 05/05/2004 8:43:03 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: slim mackerel
Laugh bump.
22 posted on 05/05/2004 8:43:22 AM PDT by Soaring Feather (~The Dragon Flies' Lair~ Poetry and Prose~)
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To: blackdog
I really don't care what our troops do to obtain information vital to the welfare of our troops, countrymen, and country.
__________

OK. Fair enough.

What about when our troops do it for kicks, as seems to be the case in at least some of these situations.

Is that OK?

I don't see what "information vital to the welfare of our troops" is being extracted while smoking, laughing and pointing at prisoners genitalia, all the while mugging for the camera.
23 posted on 05/05/2004 8:46:59 AM PDT by dmz
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To: Radix
Ensuring the safety of enemy combatants........The only reason to ensure their safety is for their value as hum-int assets.

Islam laughs at such nonsense.

Everything in America is catch and release. Criminals, enemy combatants, marriages, politicians, murderers, rapists, fishing, bank fraud, bribery convictions, etc....

This is an area of the world where they stone you to death for showing your face and behead you for stealing an orange.

Oh how islam must be entertained pushing our buttons.........Watch Teddy Dance.....

24 posted on 05/05/2004 8:47:30 AM PDT by blackdog (I feed the sheep the coyotes eat)
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To: slim mackerel
i agree with your comment
25 posted on 05/05/2004 8:53:16 AM PDT by Liberatio (Please forgive my misspelling)
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To: dmz
It's psychological warfare. What do you think the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay were doing to our security units guarding them?

My dad was a prison guard. They throw feces at you, shank you, you hand them toothpaste and they shove it up their butt and laugh at you.

These are not weak Americans accustomed to civil compliance. Most of these prisoners have been trained to avoid successful interogation and the games played to soften them up may seem sadistic and unpleasant, but there is a method.

It is vital to our mission that we know everything they have up their sleeve. Our psy-ops guys know how to get it done without piling dead bodies up to the ceiling.

I would even hedge to guess that this may have been deliberately leaked for some end game purpose. Be patient, let's see.

26 posted on 05/05/2004 8:56:17 AM PDT by blackdog (I feed the sheep the coyotes eat)
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To: slim mackerel
Ah, the sweet smell of perspective.
27 posted on 05/05/2004 8:57:13 AM PDT by MJM59
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To: Old Sarge; slim mackerel
Hey, this is no joke. I agree with this guy. 8->

I think this was the least we could do to these apes for what they've done to our guys and gals. Can you say, homicide bombers, terrorists?

'sides, we all know that the enemy knows by now that all they have to do is get the liberals' panties in a bind with their cry-baby crap, and they WILL BE SET FREE!

Let's see, did those who took some hostages mistreat them? Did they treat them according to the GC? Let's ask our media if they know!

28 posted on 05/05/2004 8:59:38 AM PDT by beachn4fun (The prisoners are crying....Now the liberals are crying...did any of them cry when our guyz died?)
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Comment #29 Removed by Moderator

To: thoughtomator
Baloney. I am a soldier who risked his life in Iraq to do the right thing and I am outraged. People with me died and lost limbs so that these sickos could play gang-bang? If reality matches appearances, the responsible parties should be tried at court martial and punished. There is plenty of evidence to warrant a thorough investigation. The truth is the truth, and we should never be afraid to face it. The thousands of men and women who are serving honorably demand it. You're not defending me or any other soldier when you defend lawlessness.
30 posted on 05/05/2004 9:06:31 AM PDT by bin2baghdad
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To: bin2baghdad
I'm not defending the abuse - it's an outrage, against everything that we are supposed to be as a nation. I have confidence that the system will provide justice in this case. Hopefully they'll have the sense to shut down that prison, a powerful symbol of Saddam's tyranny.

I just find the crowing on the Left - the ones using this incident to attack the war policy - to be disgusting. And it is right in line with their continuing campaign to sabotage the war at great risk to us all.
31 posted on 05/05/2004 9:11:16 AM PDT by thoughtomator (yesterday Kabul, today Baghdad, tomorrow Damascus)
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To: thoughtomator
Everyone KNOWS how the left will respond to this. They've just been waiting for an excuse to spit on us and call us baby-killers. Everyone KNOWS how it will play in the Arab world. That's why I'm more pissed right now at the people who did this than at the left or press or the UN or al-Jazeera. Their response is predictable. Because their response is predictable, the guilty soldiers are responsible for more than simply violating our American values of human decency; they've increased the risk for every soldier on the ground and made it much more difficult to achieve the mission. My commander told us that we would have to work together to achieve our mission - but any private could screw it up all by themselves by behaving badly. He was right. I guess I expect more from my fellow soldiers.
32 posted on 05/05/2004 9:25:36 AM PDT by bin2baghdad
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To: LindaSOG
We are winning ~ the bad guys are losing ~ trolls, terrorists, democrats and the mainstream media are sad ~ very sad!

~~ Bush/Cheney 2004 ~~

33 posted on 05/05/2004 9:26:58 AM PDT by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: slim mackerel
Well, peeing on the enemy is a great American military tradition. Remember Captain Bucher of the Pueblo?

"The absolute truth of this bowel wrenching confession is attested to by my fervent desire to paean the Korean People’s Army Navy, and their government and to beseech the Korean people to forgive our dastardly deeds unmatched since Attila. I therefore swear the following account to be true on the sacred honor of the Great Speckled Bird."
34 posted on 05/05/2004 9:28:43 AM PDT by Flash Bazbeaux ("I'll have the moo goo gai pan without the pan, and some pans.")
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To: blackdog
I really don't care what our troops do to obtain information vital to the welfare of our troops, countrymen, and country. I have faith in their discretion.

Well perhaps those MPs who had no responsibility to obtain any information, but simply to secure the prison and ensure the safety of the prisoners can let us all know how a dyke pointing at a naked prisoner's genetals and laughing was vital to the welfare of our country. I have missed that small point.

35 posted on 05/05/2004 9:29:52 AM PDT by MACVSOG68
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To: slim mackerel
Good post. Thanks. F the Liberal Media.
36 posted on 05/05/2004 9:37:11 AM PDT by Musket
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To: LindaSOG
Totally misguided braindead.

So why is the entire administration in panic mode going on Arab tv if this is such a small deal.

Stupid article. You cannot lessen the severity and magnitude of this systemic abuse by this pablum.

Nauseating article.
37 posted on 05/05/2004 9:47:51 AM PDT by swarthyguy
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To: MACVSOG68
Dyke? ..........ahem....

Posturing and male dominance is the lifeblood of Arab/Islam culture.

I suggest those of us who have never been in nor ran a prison temper their views until the dust settles. Stuff like this goes on inside prisons right here in America every day and I don't see politicians lining up in que to spout off about it?

I suggest this may be just what the Bush Doctrine ordered up for the first order of business of a new Iraqi governing body. A few hundred Iraqi combatants giving testimony in front of a new governing Iraqi council might be just the thing to sell the people on democracy. It will keep the groups from infighting and trainwrecking. All the while in the back of their minds they'll remember in Saddam days they'd just be murdered and tossed in a ditch at night, never to be heard from again.

One can surely disagree with Bush policy, but he does have one and he does everything deliberately. He may be wrong or right, but he's no lightweight.

38 posted on 05/05/2004 9:50:44 AM PDT by blackdog (I feed the sheep the coyotes eat)
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To: bin2baghdad
Thank you for your service and welcome to Free Republic.

There was a thread the other day saying that Iraqi guards were responsible for mutilating and killing some prisoners and our men and women were more or less just humiliating the bums. I hope it's true.

Of course they must be punished. There'll be some DDs and some time handed out.

39 posted on 05/05/2004 9:52:13 AM PDT by metesky (You will be diverse, just like us.)
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To: slim mackerel
Man, do I ever miss Larry and Eric in the morning.

The Regular Guys Rocked...'eff you, Steve. 8^)

40 posted on 05/05/2004 10:00:56 AM PDT by AngryJawa (Thank You Troops!)
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To: MACVSOG68
Thanks for your posts. You are a thoughtful person.

I suggest you read a few good books on the prison systems in America. From the days of Toqueville to present, American penal systems(from the root word pennance) has been a global oddity.

While Africa and Islam were selling their undesireables off into slavery or executing them and their entire families, America was spending the public treasury to house, clothe, and feed undesireables and then putting their families on public assistance.

We Americans have such a huge GDP, we can afford a justice system and somehow we think that's a shared global priority. It's not. Ninety percent of the world spends most of it's governing time figuring out how to cull the herd. We spend it pampering the herd because we can afford it.

My dad spent twenty years working in the prison system(maximum security) and you do have a right to be concerned about the treatment of prisoners, but your concerns would be more genuine right here at home, not in Iraq. You also need some reality checks on the behavior and management of prisoners. They have nothing but time and resources to do you harm, which in Iraq is why they got there. You must keep them off balance and confused 24/7. It's a science I'm sad to say.

41 posted on 05/05/2004 10:06:32 AM PDT by blackdog (I feed the sheep the coyotes eat)
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To: blackdog
You also need some reality checks on the behavior and management of prisoners. They have nothing but time and resources to do you harm, which in Iraq is why they got there.

I'm less concerned about the prisoners here in the US who have been completely through our justice system, have attorneys and many liberal organizations looking out for their welfare. In the battlefield, enemy combatants have none of that; in addition, are subject to conventions on the treatment of enemy prisoners to which we are a signatory. Few of those prisoners are anything more than suspects; few have had any charges levied, and it's doubtful that the MPs there had any responsibility for "working" the prisoners to keep them off balance.

I don't have a problem with tough interrogation, and much less of a problem with what happens in the heat of battle. But I do believe that no one up the chain of command had any hint of this. Sometimes it's best to just be out in the open and admit a problem rather than build a justification that might not withstand the test of time. Take care.

42 posted on 05/05/2004 10:21:54 AM PDT by MACVSOG68
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To: MACVSOG68
Man are you clueless on American Justice. Didn't you hear me when I told you that what you are complaining about going on in Iraq occurs right here in America every day?

Just what do you think a BAU is in a state prison?

I can't blame anyone trying to be compassionate with genuine motives, but you need to do your homework my friend.

43 posted on 05/05/2004 10:33:56 AM PDT by blackdog (I feed the sheep the coyotes eat)
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To: blackdog
Of course there is abuse of prisoners in our prisons system. That is why you always read about guards getting arrested for abusing the prisoners.

The guards, civilians and military, are professionals, and they are expected to act professionally.
44 posted on 05/05/2004 10:51:07 AM PDT by Fishing-guy (AL)
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To: slim mackerel
Boy, with this argument, Sadam was actually a good guy.
45 posted on 05/05/2004 10:53:28 AM PDT by Fishing-guy (AL)
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To: blackdog
Man are you clueless on American Justice. Didn't you hear me when I told you that what you are complaining about going on in Iraq occurs right here in America every day?

In 1998, during the Lewinski affair, the Democrats had several defensive mechanisms. First was denial, then attacking the investigators, then trivialization (it's all about sex), diverting attention to other "more serious" things ($50 million with all the crime going on, etc), and finally, moral equivalancy (Everybody does it).

At that time, It seemed clear to me that the Dems were on the wrong side, and we, especially here at FR, were on the right side. Now, unfortunately, the shoe appears to be on the other foot, and we at FR have used every one of those defensive tools on this and related threads to justify or trivialize what has happened.

Telling anyone that the harm these actions have done to our political capital in that part of the world should be ignored because the same things happen here in America every day is simply an example of moral equivalancy. I don't question the veracity of what you are saying. I'm merely telling you that it is irrelevant to this discussion. I would invite you to start a thread on the American justice system if you are that concerned. I want us to succeed in the war against terrorism, and will not be drawn into any argument that posits some unrelated example of moral equivalancy to either parry the original argument or justify it.

I can't blame anyone trying to be compassionate with genuine motives, but you need to do your homework my friend.

This has nothing to do with compassion, and everything to do with the rule of law during wartime.

46 posted on 05/05/2004 11:11:51 AM PDT by MACVSOG68
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To: Fishing-guy
Someone is going to shoot at a bus full of children on their way to school. You have seven guys in your jail who know where, when, who, and how. They refuse to cooperate and feed you false information regarding the whereabouts of the rest of their group.

Whatchya gonna do?

I think the 9/11 commission is asking one thing and demanding another, while hiding behind civility.

Let's study the Israeli's and their experience with Islamic prisoners? I'd love to hear some running history of the methods used in Israeli prisons. On the one hand I know they are good, compassionate people. On the other, they are constantly being attacked and gathering intel is vital. How do they walk that line? Do they?

What experience have the Russians had with prisoners from the Chechnyian conflict? Turkey? Greece? Spain? Indonesia?

47 posted on 05/05/2004 11:16:41 AM PDT by blackdog (I feed the sheep the coyotes eat)
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To: MACVSOG68
We don't even know what coutry these prisoners are from? Prior experience tells us they are foreign to Iraq. Rules of war dictate protections to uniformed combatants, not terrorists or guerilla warfare.

Again, I say uniformed combatants. No uniform, no rules. That's the Geneva Convention. There are not too many countries who are signators of the Geneva Convention.

I am not supporting violence toward them. I'm just saying that your argument of rules of war do not apply based on our being a signator of the Geneva Convention. You need to belong to a state who has declared war for that and you need to wear their uniform.

48 posted on 05/05/2004 11:24:40 AM PDT by blackdog (I feed the sheep the coyotes eat)
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To: blackdog
Are you arguing for hiring Sadam's goons? They seemed to be very efficient in getting information out of prisoners.

O wait. We can't hire Sadam's goons. Because, they are BAD people.
49 posted on 05/05/2004 11:38:11 AM PDT by Fishing-guy (AL)
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To: blackdog
I am not supporting violence toward them. I'm just saying that your argument of rules of war do not apply based on our being a signator of the Geneva Convention. You need to belong to a state who has declared war for that and you need to wear their uniform.

You are correct that we do not know where these prisoners came from, yet we believe we are in a war, and as such, our military leaders are requiring that we comply with the rules of war, which is not all that difficult. We are after all, the strongest military power in the world, and should not attempt to use the non uniform issue to circumvent our responsibilities.

As I have stated before, I support strong interrogation techniques if we have reason to believe they will be productive, and I rarely question actions resulting from the heat of battle. The commander on the ground must be given wide leeway in the pursuit of victory.

As you well know, that is not what this is about. This is about alleged atrocities, not committed in the heat of battle, or even by responsible individuals. This appears to be about out of control soldiers with inadequate supervision.

50 posted on 05/05/2004 11:43:33 AM PDT by MACVSOG68
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