Live bombs to drop for more realistic training (Fort Sill, OK)

Army News Service ^ | May 4, 2004 | Sgt. 1st Class Marcia Triggs

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

Airborne Soldiers demonstrate their teamwork by emplacing and firing cannons within minutes of landing on Fort Sill, Okla., during a Joint Close Air Support exercise. This week troops from the Army, Navy, Marine Corps and Air Force will combine their firepower on a simulated enemy target.
Spc. Matt Meadows

Live bombs to drop for more realistic training

By Sgt. 1st Class Marcia Triggs

May 4, 2004

WASHINGTON (Army News Service, May 3, 2004) – The home to field artillery, Fort Sill, Okla., is re-instituting joint live fire in an exercise this week involving troops from across the country, and a new Joint Fires Course scheduled to debut this fall.

For the first time in about nine years, III Corps Artillery at Fort Sill is hosting a Joint Close Air Support live-fire exercise. Soldiers from Fort Bragg, N.C., will parachute in. Navy F-18 Hornets and Air Force F-16 Fighting Falcons will be used to drop ordnance, including the Navy’s MK-83, a 1,000-pound bomb.

“We want to show that we can realistically coordinate and provide fire in support of joint operations safely,” said Capt. Albert Huang the operations officer for the 212th Field Artillery Brigade.

The exercise, which continues through May 7, will also integrate multiple launch rocket systems, cannon fires and troops from Fort Hood, Texas, and the Marine Corps, Huang said.

There needs to be interdependence among the different services, said Col. John Haithcock, head of the Joint and Combined Integration Directorate at the U.S. Army Field Artillery Center, Fort Sill.

Artillery, the greatest killer on the battlefield, can’t do it alone, Haithcock said. Air and naval gunfire can’t do it all, he added. At any time or place a person on the ground needs to be able to call for fire, and get whatever resources he needs – a ship, artillery or a plane, he added.

In March, Fort Sill also began training on how to employ joint fires through live exercises at its officer basic course -- training that was suspended after resources were cut, and an officer was killed in 1996 by a misguided 500-pound bomb, Haithcock said.

“Close air support training was pushed down to the units, but what we found was some units were very good at it and others were not as good,” Haithcock said. “We’ve realized over the years that we need to provide training here at the school house.”

Haithcock acknowledged that some of the procedures that occurred in 1996 were done incorrectly. Several safety measures have been implemented so that the Joint Close Air Support exercise doesn’t turn tragic.

Huang said that a couple of the measures include using trained, experienced observers and pilots during live drops. Air Force forward observers will guide in aircraft to ensure that pilots have properly identified the targets, and the Army and Marine Corps observers will call in the artillery, he added. Also revisions were made to the air space coordinates to make sure artillery isn’t fired at the same time aircraft is flying over, said Huang.

Repetition on how to employ joint fires leads to enemy deaths, not friendly ones, Haithcock said, adding that a Joint Fires Course is being designed. A three-week pilot course is scheduled to begin in September or October, he said.

“What we found is that we grow and train our fire supporters at brigade levels and below, and they understand how the Army works,” Haithcock said. “However, they don’t get the training at upper-echelon headquarters, which are joint environments.”

Eventually Haithcock said the course will be shortened to two weeks. The curriculum will include an introduction on Army, Navy, Marine Corps and Air Force doctrine; rules of engagement to include international law. Other courses will be joint and combined targeting, time sensitive targeting and air support request, and at the end is a command post exercise.

The course is open to senior enlisted, sergeant first class and above and officers, captain through colonel. Any service members from any career branch can attend the course if they are going to be assigned to a fire-support job in a joint environment. This course isn’t just for field artillerymen, Haithcock said.

Depending on concepts that are being worked under the Future Combat Systems, there may not be a need for as many field artillerymen at the company level, Haithcock said.

“We’re looking at improving the technology of individual Soldier equipment and combat platforms,” Haithcock said. “So if we can provide the individual Soldier the ability to engage a target, then you can probably reduce the number of forward observers on the battlefield.”

The Global Information Grid, a network that connects Soldiers with platforms and command and control systems, is another factor on whether advanced equipment will be able to replace artillerymen.

“We will always need artillerymen, because they do more than just call for fires,” Haithcock said. “They will have to do the planning and execution and have the expertise to figure out how to support maneuver commander’s plan.”

(Editor’s note: Staff Sgt. Michael Lavigne from Soldiers Radio and Television contributed to this article.)

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

For the first time in about nine years, III Corps Artillery at Fort Sill is hosting a Joint Close Air Support live-fire exercise. Soldiers from Fort Bragg, N.C., will parachute in. Navy F-18 Hornets and Air Force F-16 Fighting Falcons will be used to drop ordnance, including the Navy’s MK-83, a 1,000-pound bomb.

“We want to show that we can realistically coordinate and provide fire in support of joint operations safely,” said Capt. Albert Huang the operations officer for the 212th Field Artillery Brigade.

The exercise, which continues through May 7, will also integrate multiple launch rocket systems, cannon fires and troops from Fort Hood, Texas, and the Marine Corps.

 

 

http://sill-www.army.mil/

    Bang!

[Alamo-Girl]

Bump!

[Lokibob]

Years ago, Ft. Sill used to have a live fire exercise monthly and it was open to the public on a Sat.

Talk about shock and awe. They took all the graduating classes and let them actually fire the bullets. Each battery had a target and fired on that one in a field, I'd guess 1 mile square.

The targets were abandoned cars found on Ft. Sill. LOL

They even fired a Little John rocket (that tells you how long ago this was).

As a finale, they had a TOT (time on target). That was when all the bullets from all the guns hit the targets at the same time.

I'll never forget that demonstration.

Can't imagine what involving the other services would do more impressively.

[boxerblues]

Youngest son was at Fort sill for bootcamp. We decided to do a little sight seeing at Mt Scott not knowing the road up there is next to the firing range, we had the begeevers scared out of.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

The troops ought to see live fire in training for sure.

[Lokibob]

"Time On Target" (TOT) was a surprise tactic for devastating a particular target area almost instantaneously. Suspected "hot" LZ's were often prep'd with a TOT mission while the assault forces hovered or circled overhead at altitude. Troops were then inserted into the 'sanitized' LZ before the smoke cleared.

TOT missions involved timing the firing of multiple batteries so that all fire on the same location, with the firing times adjusted to cause the rounds to all impact at the same time. A typical TOT might involve 4 batteries (24 guns), of different calibers; some firing rounds fuzed for ground burst, some for airburst. The effect is that a particular jungle clearing might be quiet and peaceful one second and in the next second be totally enveloped and saturated with explosions in the air and on the ground. Bombardment may cease after the initial volley or be maintained in Fire For Effect mode, creating a sustained saturation of the area with detonations.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

FAMPL ping material

[Lokibob]

While attending school at Ft. Sill, my car broke down, and i had to leave it on side of road while getting a wrecker.

It wasn't left there an hour before I returned. the MP's had already marked the tires, and left a note on my windshield stating I had 12 hours to move it. The note went on to say that abandoned cars on Ft. Sill were placed on the firing range, typically within 2 weeks.

They needed targets, I guess.

[SAMWolf]

Unbeliveable that's it's been 9 years.

[Lokibob]

Sam,
They have been doing the live fire exercises at the NTC.

[SAMWolf]

Ok Thanks. It sounded like there were no live fire exercises being held.

[MPJackal]

"Can't imagine what involving the other services would do more impressively."

It is not about being impressive. The military is trying to overcome some problems they found when operating in a joint environment. Army talking to Air Force or USMC is a bit more complicated than Army talking to Army. It will also help each service understand the capabilities of the others weapons systems.

FYI. Ft Sill stopped this some years back after the Air Force dropped a bomb on Army Forward Observers kill a few of them.

[MPJackal]

"the MP's had already marked the tires, and left a note on my windshield stating I had 12 hours to move it. The note went on to say that abandoned cars on Ft. Sill were placed on the firing range, typically within 2 weeks."

This is not true.

[Darksheare]

"..training that was suspended after resources were cut, and an officer was killed in 1996 by a misguided 500-pound bomb, Haithcock said. "

If I remember correctly, that happened RIGHT before I went to Fort Sill in August 1996.
Will ping the crew.

[Darksheare]

FAMPL ping.
Joint combat training with LIVE bombs.

[Lokibob]

Not true now? Not true in 1974? Scare tactic?

[Darksheare]

The MP's at Sill when I was there had senses of humor.
Well, most of the time.
As long as we 'undisciplined 13bravos' didn't bust on them too much.

[2Jedismom]

Why was I not pinged to the immediately?

;-D

Is there a place where we can go and observe this from a safe distance? I get such a kick out of the helicopters and F-16s flying over where I live, this would really be a thrill!

Oooooooo-klahoma ping!

[Darksheare]

Sorry!
*dejectedly*

[Sally'sConcerns]

I've been listening to KSWO-TV out of Lawton talk about this but I haven't been hearing any bombs go off or anything. Last year, prior to going into Iraq I'd hear loud booms that would rattle the windows and so far I've not heard a peep this year.

I'm only 25 miles away and the wind is blowing in the right direction so I don't know how they could be blowing up stuff with live bombs without me hearing it.

[E.G.C.]

BTTT!!!!!!!

[2Jedismom]

Keep me posted!

[Sally'sConcerns]

I'll let you know when I hear the first bombs go off. We haven't even had any air traffic to speak of in the last month or so. Of course, in Marlow, the only air traffic we do hear is from Ft. Sill.

[CatoRenasci]

I do not have fond memories of the MPs at Ft. Sill. They used to wait outside the FSOOM (Ft. Sill Officers' Open Mess = Officers Club) for poor unsuspecting LTs in OBC to come out three sheets to the wind, car keys in hand, and bust them for DUI because the keys showed "intent" to drive. It seemed to be the Post MP Sport during my 2 years at Sill. I never got busted, because a friend warned me about it before I arrived at Sill, but a lot of the newbies found themselves without car privileges and/or with big fines. Nasty.

When I was working on an Operational Test II with troops in from all over, I was constantly having to bail troops out from MP attention. They really seemed to enjoy roughing the kids up.

[ConservativeMan55]

Thats what I'd like to know!

[ConservativeMan55]

Ok. I'm freaking out! My hit counter from my Web site says that a politician from Washington is viewing my site!

Kick ass!

[Darksheare]

Admittedly, there was the night in The Impact Zone where the LT and I were yucking it up off duty on pass, and the MP's came wandering inside.
They walk over to us, probably because I was the shortest guy there and we were laughing like loons, and started with odd questions.
Being the jerk that I am, I asked them if their 'pretty painted pistol belts' had something to do with "don't ask/ don't tell".
I don't think I've run that fast before or since.
Did make it back to the barracks though, and the LT thought it was funny.
'Course, they were looking for us for awhile after that.
*lol*

Yeah, we had a few MP's there that loved bothering the Privates.
And there were more than a few instances where one or more of my training battery had to be bailed out.
I somehow managed to avoid MP attention.
At least until that night.

[CatoRenasci]

LOL- anent your comment to the MPs about their "pretty painted pistol belts".....

Most of my memories of Sill are fond, except those involving the MPs. Once, I even had to get my boss (a very old school (brown-shoe army) O-6) involved when the MPs didn't respond to my blandishments to spring my TDY charges there for the tests. I have to say it was almost worth being up at 4:30am to hear my boss, and his boss (a mere 0-7) explain to the young, but self-assured, MP 0-3, that his concern for regulations with respect to alcohol consumption among the unwashed was impeding a major Operational Test, and that unless the troops in question were released to me tuit suit, said O-3 would find his pending reassignment to Thule, Greenland required his immediate departure by earliest available flight, which would be leaving at 0600.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Field Artillery & Mortar Ping List

[windchime]

Bump!

[gwjack]

Years ago in the run-up to Gulf War (1990-91) my daughters and I were camping at the Wichita Mountain Wildlife Refuge. Early one Saturday morning we walked (hiked) to the top of Elk Mountain for a picnic lunch. While there we were able to see with the naked eye Army aircraft dropping "chalk" bombs on the range. I don't know if you would be able to see their "live" drops. Good luck.

Gwjack

[Sally'sConcerns]

11:09 am - boom

11:11 am - BOOM

This has been an activation of the emergency notification of the BOOM, shake, rattle and roll at Ft. Sill.

[2Jedismom]

Whoooohooooo! Let's ROLL!

God Bless our Oklahoma troops!

[2Jedismom]

I wish I could be there...I'm glad you're able to hear it!

[2Jedismom]

It's begun!

[Sally'sConcerns]

Hopefully I'll get to hear more than the two I've already reported hearing. After I heard them I was all prepared to rattle all day long.

[2Jedismom]

I hope you do too!!

Did I ever tell you about when the helicopters circled my house? I was ballistic for quite a while over that...

[BlueLancer]

They regularly have live-fire exercises for aircraft .. bombing runs and Warthog chaingun .. here on Fort Hood, as well as artillery and mortar live-fires. We live about 14 miles away and when they're really tuned up, the ground shakes and rolls like a ship in heavy seas.

The noise and shaking doesn't bother the wife or I, and our cat takes it in stride as well. Nothing like the sound of freedom to help you fall asleep.

[BlueLancer]

"They needed targets, I guess."

I remember training up on the LAW, the Dragon, and the TOW systems back in the mid-70's and we used everything from old tank carcasses to "impounded/unclaimed" automobiles and trucks to bulldozers and cement-mixers.

They sure blowed up real good ...

[Sally'sConcerns]

Nope, you've never told me about the helicopters. What made you go ballistic?

[Darksheare]

LOL!
THULE?!
Ouch, that must've left singe marks.

The MP's went from grinning like cheshire cats to a deep purple-ish crimson in seconds at the painted pistol belt remarks.
I almost didn't make it out the back door of the place.

The next morning our Cap was asking about the 'two soldiers' who'd made a run from the MP's the night before, he evidently didn't know that one of the guilty party was his LT standing behind him snickering.
I'd been pretty much 'squeaky clean' up until then.
Afterwards, some of the guys would point and say, "If we want to get in trouble, let's go with him."
*sigh*

Still, in hindsight, it probably wasn't such a hot idea on my part.
;-)

[2Jedismom]

Well, it's a bit of a story, so I didn't want to type it all up if you'd already heard it! LOL

It all started on 9/11...that evening, when no one was supposed to be flying, a helicopter flew over our house. Loud. Low. Thunked right over our house. All the neighbors rushed out and we watched it fly over very low.

That's when I started noticing the helicopters. Never had before, although I suppose they'd always been there. They are green, military helicopter with a very distinct thunking sound, unlike the lighter sound of news or emergency helicopters. Started noticing them a lot! They were always flying either north to south, or south to north.

So I could hear these choppers coming from a long ways off and the jedis and I got in the habit of dashing outside into the front yard and waving at them! LOL We did it for a long time...a year at least. Then one day, one swerved our direction. It was flying North to South and it swerved way over toward out house! The jedis and I just stood there wondering what it was going to do, but then it just lined back up the way it was and flew on south.

The very next time we heard the chopper...we dashed out and this time it made a bee-line toward our house and circled our house! RIGHT OVER our house!! The jedis started jumping up and down shouting, I jerked our flag off the front of the house and started waving it! Very exciting!!!

They've done it twice. The second time I was alone, and I waved the flag a bit, but then just stood in the driveway waving and laughing...they had their side doors open that time. (I could see the door was open but couldn't tell if they were waving...I'd recently bonked myself in the eye with a electric plug.)

Tickled me no end! See, it's a long story.

[Darksheare]

Caissons!

[Darksheare]

Wish I could be there!

[2Jedismom]

Me too, my FRiend...

I always pray for the F16 pilots when they fly over...pray a hedge of protection around them. I'm sure they can't see me, but God can see them!

[Sally'sConcerns]

That is such a cool story! The helicopters that occasionally fly over us don't fly that low.

Kind of reminds me of the time when I lived in the flight path of Houston Intercontinental. I could stand out on the deck in the backyard and wave at the pilots. On occasion I swear I think I saw them wave back.

I know what you mean about the sound of those kind of helicopters. It's a low thwump-thwump-thwump sound, almost like the rotor (I started to say wings!) is beating a rug on the clothesline but louder and bigger.

[Darksheare]

Got to watch A-10 pilots strut their stuff up at Fort Drum a few times while my unit was doing live fire.
But that's somewhat different.
We weren't coordinating attacks on any targets in the impact zone or such.

They'd quit doing the combined training at Sill in 96 right before I got there.
(9Aug96, my training began on 13Aug96 -a Friday.)
When we were going through basic, they told us about 'the accident' and how our future profession in artillery was inherently dangerous.
One or two guys wimped at that point.

[MPJackal]

"The MP's at Sill when I was there had senses of humor.
Well, most of the time.
As long as we 'undisciplined 13bravos' didn't bust on them too much."

How can you not have a sense of humor with those wacky cannon cockers? I was there fron 94-98. I had heard all kinds of horror stories about Lawton, OK, but I really enjoyed my time there.

[MPJackal]

" have to say it was almost worth being up at 4:30am to hear my boss, and his boss (a mere 0-7) explain to the young, but self-assured, MP 0-3, that his concern for regulations with respect to alcohol consumption among the unwashed was impeding a major Operational Test, and that unless the troops in question were released to me tuit suit, said O-3 would find his pending reassignment to Thule, Greenland required his immediate departure by earliest available flight, which would be leaving at 0600."

Oh please. You know how many times I have heard this sort of story. MP's are taught very early that regulations are in writing for a reason. You might want to check whose signature is on EVERY Army regulation......The Army Chief of Staff. I believe that trumps your O-7. Oh, and that O-3 MP works for the Post Commanding General, and on Fort Sill that also happens to be the Commandant of the Field Artillery School. One more thing, Arty O-7 don't make assignments for MP's and NO MP Officer at DA gives a whip about some pissed off O-6 or O-7 in OK.

Also, how many times have you seen an MP go out of his way to help someone? Tell one of those stories next time.