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The small-town girl who ended up on every channel (Lynndie England Leash Girl)
The Baltimore Sun via SMH ^ | May 7, 2004 | John Woestendiek in Fort Ashby, West Virginia

Posted on 05/06/2004 8:13:05 AM PDT by dead

Edited on 05/06/2004 8:34:29 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

Lynndie England loved a good storm. During tornado warnings her mother would have to drag her back inside the house. Her teachers say she wanted a career as a storm-chaser.

Now, the perfect storm has found her.

From hometown hero to the reviled woman holding the leash . . . US Reserve
soldier Lynndie England with an Iraqi prisoner in Baghdad's Abu Ghraib prison.
Photo: The Washington Post

The petite 21-year-old army reservist from the quiet crossroads town of Fort Ashby in West Virginia is the most visible character in the controversy over the abuse of Iraqi detainees at Abu Ghraib prison. She is the thumbs-up girl, the pixie-ish, T-shirted soldier, smiling, pointing and posing for the camera with naked and humiliated inmates.

Soon after the release of the photographs, Terrie England was on the telephone with her daughter while watching television.

Full story ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: West Virginia; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: amateurdominatrix; dummy; idiot; iraqipow; lynndieengland
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
Her mother is busy making excuses.

I'd die of shame if my daughter did anything like this.

I'd break her neck first, though!
101 posted on 05/06/2004 9:24:11 AM PDT by tiamat ("Just a Bronze-Age Gal, Trapped in a Techno World!")
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To: dead
I nominate her for a position with the National Park Service as a ranger at the check in station at Yellowstone. And a year's supply of plaid flannel shirts. And some Sarah McGloughlin tapes.
102 posted on 05/06/2004 9:24:18 AM PDT by AmericanInTokyo (As an overseas Yank, in all my years, I've NEVER seen such disdain toward Americans & the USA.)
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Comment #103 Removed by Moderator

To: Chief_Joe
Yep. And imagine what would have happened if the picture was of a male soldier holding a female on a leash.
104 posted on 05/06/2004 9:26:17 AM PDT by proust (How many deaths will it take till he knows too many people have died?)
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To: AQGeiger
Correct.

btw, these men were being punished because they started a prison riot.

No way were these women controlling these prisoners by themselves.
105 posted on 05/06/2004 9:26:42 AM PDT by WOSG (http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com - I salute our brave fallen.)
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To: Law is not justice but process
>>...I am very encouraged by the outrage our nation has shown over the actions of these out-of-control prison guards....<<

President Bush spoke on Arabic TV regarding this issue. I believe he should address the American people also.

We pride ourselves in our humane treatment of enemy POW's. Whenever the enemy mistreats our guys we are rightously indignant and say we don't do that.

Well, we can't say that anymore. These morons have insulted our nation. They've caused us to lose face before the world.

I think this is big. It makes me sick.

106 posted on 05/06/2004 9:27:24 AM PDT by FReepaholic (War On Terror: If not us, who? If not now, when?)
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To: ken5050
What are the odds that she'll do a Playboy spread sometime soon...

Pretty good I'd say. Can someone please explain that to me -- why people want to see famous/infamous people naked -- no matter what they look like??

107 posted on 05/06/2004 9:28:05 AM PDT by rogercolleridge
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To: tscislaw
No, that's not it...
108 posted on 05/06/2004 9:28:18 AM PDT by RichInOC ("Keep going!" "Why must I be like that? Why must I chase that cat? Nothin' but the dog in me....")
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To: mywholebodyisaweapon
""Wake up! We need to torture these people for about twenty years so THEY WILL FEAR US. They will never love us, much less respect us.""


You are an IDIOT AND SHOULD BE TORTURED FOR ABOUT 20 YEARS.
109 posted on 05/06/2004 9:28:41 AM PDT by commonerX
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To: dead
Old addage: Whatever happens, don't let them turn you over to the women.
110 posted on 05/06/2004 9:29:07 AM PDT by tlrugit
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To: Chief_Joe
My only response to you is that you make me want to puke!
111 posted on 05/06/2004 9:29:29 AM PDT by usflagwaver
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To: Chief_Joe
The military should put together and field units entirely based on what's best to accomplish the military objective, and it should not let gender quota politics designed by whorists (feminists) to be pushed down its throat.

Thank you.

112 posted on 05/06/2004 9:29:55 AM PDT by Skooz (My Biography: Psalm 40:1-3)
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To: rogercolleridge
Same reason why people rubberneck at traffic accidents...
113 posted on 05/06/2004 9:30:07 AM PDT by ken5050 (Ann Coulter needs to have children ASAP to propagate her genes.....any volunteers?)
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To: ishabibble
bump.
114 posted on 05/06/2004 9:30:09 AM PDT by cicero's_son
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To: phil1750
I'm hearing nasty rumours that they came out of the Pentagon, but i have nothing to back that up with.

I am not saying apologise. if you apologise in the ME, they see you as weak and press further.

the way to handle it is to simply state, " The things that were done were wrong. Those who did them will be dealt with sternly".

AND THAT'S ALL!

The young trooper was going along with her gang. I think she's very trashy.

I'm also not saying pamper the prisoners. Hell, if I were running it, more of them would be being hauled out and shot.




However, these pictures are simply unclean and beneath us.

115 posted on 05/06/2004 9:30:10 AM PDT by tiamat ("Just a Bronze-Age Gal, Trapped in a Techno World!")
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To: dead
You realize she will be a hot property in the San Fernando valley among the BSDM/humiliation subsection of the porno industry. She will probably get enough money to get her mom out of that trailor.
116 posted on 05/06/2004 9:31:51 AM PDT by mbraynard
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To: dead
We should have just nuked these clowns and been done with it.
117 posted on 05/06/2004 9:32:16 AM PDT by expatguy (Fallujah Delenda Est!!)
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To: dead
I hope they throw the book at this "pixie-ish" little knuckle-dragger. The military must cull its ranks when necessary.
118 posted on 05/06/2004 9:33:25 AM PDT by pickemuphere
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To: tscislaw
You are going to catch hell for that comment, just now, by the troglodytes, the "my country, right or ugly", or the "Shucks, even Beelzebub could don a US military uniform and that would make him OK in my book"-crowd on FR.

You took the road less traveled. So did President Bush. So do most of the active duty military on FR about this issue.

And for THAT, you are liable to catch wrath and hell.

119 posted on 05/06/2004 9:33:30 AM PDT by AmericanInTokyo (As an overseas Yank, in all my years, I've NEVER seen such disdain toward Americans & the USA.)
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To: Anubus
Maybe I am just jaded but I really don't care. The only thing that really bothers me about this whole thing is how the Left and the Arab world are using these pictures to further their anti-US agenda.

Maybe I should care, but I don't. So they put a leash on a naked guy. Big whoop. Pretty tame when put against the tapestry of the last 5000 years of warfare and brutality that make up human history. The fact that there is more outrage (even in the US it seems) over these pictures than over the smoldering contractors hanging from a bridge tells me that the outrage is manufactured.

The one exception I will make to that statement is the outrage shown by our military people. They feeled betrayed by the idiots in these pictures. I think that outrage is justified.

120 posted on 05/06/2004 9:34:02 AM PDT by Pete
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To: expatguy
But surely, first, they deserve a military trial and their superiors need to be held accountable, don't you agree?
121 posted on 05/06/2004 9:34:30 AM PDT by AmericanInTokyo (As an overseas Yank, in all my years, I've NEVER seen such disdain toward Americans & the USA.)
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To: mbraynard
Or at least into a "double wide", what with the AV industry cash advances on her first flick....
122 posted on 05/06/2004 9:35:12 AM PDT by AmericanInTokyo (As an overseas Yank, in all my years, I've NEVER seen such disdain toward Americans & the USA.)
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To: tlrugit
"Old addage: Whatever happens, don't let them turn you over to the women."

Another old addage: Anyone who can bleed for a week and not die is not someone to mess with.

123 posted on 05/06/2004 9:36:09 AM PDT by Positive
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To: Semaphore Heathcliffe
"she's so TINY looking."

Yes, she is. In fact I'm susprised they allowed her to deal directly with terrorist suspects, all of whom are bigger than her.

124 posted on 05/06/2004 9:36:28 AM PDT by cake_crumb (UN Resolutions = Very Expensive, Very SCRATCHY Toilet Paper)
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To: commonerX
Well, if you have your way, we will probably both be taken prisoner in our own country and enslaved, so we can discuss it further then by tapping out Morse code between cells.

Judging by your use of words and snap judgments of other people's mental abilities, I wouldn't want to have to live by your wits.
125 posted on 05/06/2004 9:37:05 AM PDT by mywholebodyisaweapon
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To: SandyInSeattle
"In my Marine Corps, you are expected to think."

Consider Puller's comment, "generals are a dime a dozen, but a good shotgun is hard to find." The thinking should focus on your duty and the commander's intent of objectives. Marine leadership teaches Marines what is important to focus on, gives them knowledge and promotes the developement of wisdom within them to enable them to produce results that fulfill the commander's intent.

This soldier was a private under the guidance of older, senior noncoms and officers. She was following their lead. Unless she is more knowledgeable and wise than they are, it is unlikelikely she would ever know in the short term what she was actually doing. Now she will be told that what she's done was wrong and why it was.

They were not torturing and killing prisoners. It is doubtful she could have told the rest of the bunch that they were doing it all wrong and they should do what she suggests.

126 posted on 05/06/2004 9:37:31 AM PDT by spunkets
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To: AmericanInTokyo
I was refering to the Iraqis.

Btw, how are things in Japan, Im in Texas for a few weeks before heading back to Malaysia.

Just had a beautiful steak last night grilled over Mesquite.

127 posted on 05/06/2004 9:37:44 AM PDT by expatguy (Fallujah Delenda Est!!)
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To: dead
The picture at the top of this thread makes me want to vomit.

For every person that says that we don't needs guns to protect ourselves from our own government, this picture proves otherwise. We are no different from the Iraquis with respect to what happens to people when one group gets to play "prison guard" and one group gets to play "prisoner." The guards become oppressors, and the prisoners become the oppressed.

As a side note, where was the outrage in the Arab community when Saddaam was doing worse than this to his OWN people??
128 posted on 05/06/2004 9:40:21 AM PDT by Henrietta
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To: Polybius
I'm not defending what she did - if she's guilty. I would like to know the entire context.
129 posted on 05/06/2004 9:40:45 AM PDT by cake_crumb (UN Resolutions = Very Expensive, Very SCRATCHY Toilet Paper)
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To: spunkets
Also other released prisoners have said, "these guys were being bad". Given their behavior and the directives of her superiors, it's easy to see why she went along.

I think you are right.

It is clear we are totally over-reacting now in the media. Some prisoners were bad, and some idiot officer somewhere decided that this kind of humiliation was appropriate. It wasnt, it was abhorrent. But it was an exception not a rule, and now we have huge amounts of handwringing, with no sense of balance nor context. No sense of balance that this humiliation is far less serious than the brutal tortures that are regular in saddam's Iraq or even in other Arab countries today. (eg practices like throwing people to lions, forcing gasoline in them and then shooting them and watching them explode, the 'grenade in the mouth' trick, the acid pourings on flesh, the burning tortures, horrible beatings, etc.

Meanwhile 98% of what the US is doing is extremely careful. Often the enemy is using 'human shields' and there are many cases where US troops have decided not to fire at an enemy combatant in a crowd to avoid civilian casualties. The enemy knows this, so they deliberately fire mortars from residential areas, use mosques/schools, etc. and fire from crowds.

One story I read mentioned how a soldier had to watch as his buddy was killed and then burned in a vehicle. This was in an area where the soldiers had previously helped build the schools and helped bring water supplies up to par and other works. And some Iraqis nearby were cheering this grisly scene. Did the young soldier, manning a machine gun at the time, kill those Iraqis cheering the death of his friend? No, he held back.

Every day our soldiers are holding back from being even more harsh. Every day, our soldiers die from an enemy that is cruel and cowardly; just today another car bomb that killed Iraqi civilians that dared to go near the US 'green zone'. Every day on FR, we hear calls from the "MOAB" crowd to be more, not less, harsh and damn the civilians and collateral casualties.

we are not, should not, and cannot approach the level of barbarity of our enemy. Not even with this pictures.

130 posted on 05/06/2004 9:41:00 AM PDT by WOSG (http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com - I salute our brave fallen.)
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To: dead
You know I can understand abuses taking place during wartime. These prisoners are creeps and likely deserve every bit of this, but what I can't understand is people wanting to take pictures of themselves doing it. It's like those idiot gang members who keep the security videos of themselves holding up convenience stores.

Drill sergeants and commanders ought to impress this stuff upon new recruits. Maybe something like this, "You're going to have break some eggs to make an omelette over there, but for God's sake, don't take any pictures of yourself doing it."
131 posted on 05/06/2004 9:41:55 AM PDT by elmer fudd
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To: Chief_Joe
Is there any real proof that Jessica Lynch had photographs taken of her in any compromising situations? Are you only quoting rumors, or do you have some concrete evidence?

If you are correct, so be it. However, I think we should be very careful about reporting rumors if we do not have certain evidence.

No rebuke intended, just caution.
132 posted on 05/06/2004 9:44:01 AM PDT by arjay ("I don't do bumper stickers." Donald Rumsfeld)
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To: Skooz
One things for sure. The dame's sure no longer anonymous.

Just Google her and she is on PAGE AFTER PAGE AFTER PAGE of websites around the world. Name, age, hometown, high school, photo. Sample such as this, from a German site:

"...Die Gefreite Lynndie England, mit ihrer Zigarette im Mundwinkel vor den Genitalien eines Iraker posierend, diese Frau hat mit einer Aufnahme vergleichsweise..."

133 posted on 05/06/2004 9:44:16 AM PDT by AmericanInTokyo (As an overseas Yank, in all my years, I've NEVER seen such disdain toward Americans & the USA.)
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To: proust
Yep. And imagine what would have happened if the picture was of a male soldier holding a female on a leash.

If you replaced the female in these pictures with a male and the males with females, you would have this case already over with and the guy locked up in Leavenworth. The very reason the case seems to have been bottled necked and is dragging on is because of a reluctance to prosecute some of those responsible who happen to be women: England and Karpinski.

134 posted on 05/06/2004 9:44:19 AM PDT by Chief_Joe (From where the sun now sits, I will fight on -FOREVER!)
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To: JCEccles
"Far more posts are being improperly chracterized as approving of the abuse when they clearly disapprove of the abuse. These posters apparently don't satisfy the 'purer than thou' critics who for some reason seem incapable of noting two important facts: first, the abuse was uncovered and stopped by the US itself without being prompted by public outrage; second, the offenders are being appropriately sanctioned and prosecuted."

Very well said. Thank you.

135 posted on 05/06/2004 9:44:58 AM PDT by cake_crumb (UN Resolutions = Very Expensive, Very SCRATCHY Toilet Paper)
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To: Henrietta
"We are no different..."

Bravo Sierra. If we were no different, we wouldn't be humiliating them, we'd be lopping bits of them off with a dull machette. Those wires in the one photo would actually be hooked to a car battery instead of nothing. We'd be feeding people alive into plastic shredders and wood chippers.

Is what happened right? No. Neither was it anywhere NEAR the same kind or level of barbarism the Iraq's themselves have perpetrated. Another differnce? The perps here will be found, tried, and punished.

No different? That is what the liberals want you to believe.

136 posted on 05/06/2004 9:45:08 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (For an Evil Super Genius, you aren't too bright are you?)
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To: Sloth
"What a moron. Make an example of her."

I hope she goes to prison for a long, long, time. No punishment can compensate for the horrible image she has given our military.

Just goes to show, give people power and they WILL abuse it.
137 posted on 05/06/2004 9:45:54 AM PDT by Henrietta
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To: dead
"Ohhhhh, Lynndie......"

Off-topic I wanted to reach through the radio yesterday and slap Hannity across the chops as he was trying to make excuses for these people.

Somehow he seems to have missed the point that this stuff has made our position in Iraq much more difficult, and it is likely that American soldiers will die as a result of the publicity that has followed.

138 posted on 05/06/2004 9:46:25 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: dead
"She is the thumbs-up girl, the pixie-ish, T-shirted soldier, smiling, pointing and posing for the camera with naked and humiliated inmates."

That's right, HUMILIATED, not tortured.

Where's the pictures of the acid burns on 100% of the guy's body? Where's the pictures of the high-voltage leads on the guy's genitals? Where's the pictures of the severed hands?

These prisoners are the ones who are indiscriminate bombers and killers. They have information that would be helpful in ending the carnage over there. More power to these guards.

The thing that makes this war the most difficult is the 5th-column democRATs we have back home who are constantly back-biting the effort.

139 posted on 05/06/2004 9:47:16 AM PDT by nightdriver
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To: AD from SpringBay
"I'm having difficulty caring. The man on the leash is an enemy combatant - not someone who forgot to buckle up before driving to Kroger."

As one earlier poster said, we judge ourselves by OUR standards, not the standards of the enemy which we are fighting.

We treat our prisoners humanely, period. There is no excuse for this behavior, period. Would you want OUR soldiers treated this way, merely because they are enemy combatants?
140 posted on 05/06/2004 9:48:40 AM PDT by Henrietta
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To: Pete
There is clearly a lack of proportionality here
141 posted on 05/06/2004 9:49:55 AM PDT by fooman (Get real with Kim Jung Mentally Ill about proliferation)
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To: tscislaw
Your outrage is well directed, but I am a prosecutor and I believe that bad people are the ultimate reason things like this happen. I believe the measure of a system is how it responds to the actions of bad people. Under Saddam those who were effective at torture and humiliation of prisoners were promoted and decorated for their actions. Under our constitutional republic such actions MUST must be met not with approbation but with condemnation AND punishment.

A nation deserves no shame for producing bad people: I bet there are thousands in the U.S. today who are morally worse than Hitler or Saddam. A nation does deserve shame if they fail to punish bad actions by any person or, much worse, they allow a bad person to lead and become accomplices in their leaders crimes (Hitler did not carry out the Holocaust alone, it took the efforts of a significant proportion of the German nation and the inaction of the rest).

Fair minded people will judge our reaction to the actions of these prison guards rather than holding all Americans responsible for the reprehensible actions of a few. (Note: Al Jazeera and the far left do not count as fair-minded people, so brace yourself for a propaganda blitzkrieg)

I would argue that this is as much an opportunity to demonstrate to the world how the rule of law is to be maintained as it is a scandal. I think the ultimate imprisonment of those proven responsible will be a strong message to the world that democracies do not tolerate such actions. I suspect Lynndie England will be in the vanguard of the parade to Fort Leavenworth, and that she probably deserves to be.
142 posted on 05/06/2004 9:49:55 AM PDT by Law is not justice but process
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To: Pete
The one exception I will make to that statement is the outrage shown by our military people. They feeled betrayed by the idiots in these pictures. I think that outrage is justified.

I care about it because this incident will probably prompt a few salamikaze fence-sitters to try their hand at killing Americans. All it takes is a few stupid f*cks to make a real mess. Sounds like we've discovered a few stupid f*cks in the MPs.

143 posted on 05/06/2004 9:50:52 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: Henrietta
"The guards become oppressors, and the prisoners become the oppressed."

Let's be clear about one thing: One of the prisoners identified had killed coalition forces, then was taken prisoner, then incited a prison riot, and then was punished for it. Nobody was, or should have been, "playing" anything.

The unprofessionalism of how this was handled needs to be met with reprimands and condemnation, but to broad brush call our enemies killing our soldiers the 'oppressed' is absurd.

Most of these men are terrorists who killed in cowardly ways and deserve death, and they wont get it because we are too kind to them and their families.

The same cannot be said for how they treated the Italian civilian they kidnapped. we may be signatories to the Geneva convention, but our enemy is signed up with the evil tactics of terrorism.
144 posted on 05/06/2004 9:51:52 AM PDT by WOSG (http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com - I salute our brave fallen.)
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To: tiamat
"I'd break her neck first, though!"

Me too.

Now I wonder where the outrage is over the blindfolded Iraqi American contractor who was paraded on Arab television. We know why it's absent: it's the "American" part.

145 posted on 05/06/2004 9:52:08 AM PDT by cake_crumb (UN Resolutions = Very Expensive, Very SCRATCHY Toilet Paper)
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To: spunkets
This soldier was a private under the guidance of older, senior noncoms and officers. She was following their lead. Unless she is more knowledgeable and wise than they are, it is unlikelikely she would ever know in the short term what she was actually doing. Now she will be told that what she's done was wrong and why it was. They were not torturing and killing prisoners. It is doubtful she could have told the rest of the bunch that they were doing it all wrong and they should do what she suggests.

You misunderstand; I was speaking in general terms, not about this specific situation.

We truly don't know whose lead she was following, or what she was told by whom. I do question her personal sense of ethics in getting caught up in what she probably thought was just a little bit of fun, but she is very young. I'm willing to make some allowances for lack of maturity.

Repercussions should be proportionate to the level of involvement and the grade of the individual. I imagine she will get a slap, while those above her will be dealt with more harshly.

146 posted on 05/06/2004 9:53:28 AM PDT by SandyInSeattle (You need tons click "co-ordinating")
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To: AmericanInTokyo
Oh, yeah. If she plays her cards right, she could be legendary in certain perv circles and retire a very rich young lady.
147 posted on 05/06/2004 9:54:11 AM PDT by Skooz (My Biography: Psalm 40:1-3)
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To: Pete
"The fact that there is more outrage (even in the US it seems) over these pictures than over the smoldering contractors hanging from a bridge tells
me that the outrage is manufactured."

Word.
148 posted on 05/06/2004 9:54:14 AM PDT by Law is not justice but process
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To: Henrietta
"I hope she goes to prison for a long, long, time."

And the people who kill coalition soldiers through roadside bombs, what punishment should they get?

long long time?

but with Cable TV?
149 posted on 05/06/2004 9:54:17 AM PDT by WOSG (http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com - I salute our brave fallen.)
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To: WOSG
It is clear we are totally over-reacting now in the media. Some prisoners were bad, and some idiot officer somewhere decided that this kind of humiliation was appropriate. It wasnt, it was abhorrent. But it was an exception not a rule, and now we have huge amounts of handwringing, with no sense of balance nor context. No sense of balance that this humiliation is far less serious than the brutal tortures that are regular in saddam's Iraq or even in other Arab countries today. (eg practices like throwing people to lions, forcing gasoline in them and then shooting them and watching them explode, the 'grenade in the mouth' trick, the acid pourings on flesh, the burning tortures, horrible beatings, etc.

Great way of putting all of this into prespective. I spent a year in Vietnam, we did not torture the North Vietnamese we captured, but I am sure some did. Everyday I hear of this atrocity or that torture that happened in WWII, Korea or Vietnam, but they are the exception and not the rule. The last time I was in Germany I had an elderly German for a friend. He had spent most of WWII as a POW in Mississippi. He was first captured by the Brits in Africa and then transferred to US custody. All treated him with respect, but there were others who were not treated well on both sides.

Again, we have to put this into prespective, prosecute the guility to the maximum allowed and then get on with the war.

150 posted on 05/06/2004 9:55:30 AM PDT by SLB ("We must lay before Him what is in us, not what ought to be in us." C. S. Lewis)
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