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Parents of Terri Schindler-Schiavo Told to Pay to See Their Daughter
The Terri Schindler Foundation ^ | May 7, 2004 | Terri Foundation

Posted on 05/07/2004 3:23:12 PM PDT by amdgmary

Parents of Terri Schindler-Schiavo Told to Pay to See Their Daughter

Clearwater, FL May 7, 2004: In yet another bizarre twist of the Terri Schindler-Schiavo case, the Schindler family was informed that they must now pay a fee for “security” each time that they want to visit their daughter.

On Wednesday, May 5, 2004, Deborah Bushnell of Dunedin, an attorney representing Michael Schiavo, faxed a letter to attorneys representing the parents of Terri Schindler-Schiavo.

In her communication, Ms. Bushnell recommended that Ms. Schiavo's parents could be permitted to visit their disabled daughter if they would agree to hire an off-duty police person to accompany them. This comes after attorney Patricia Anderson, who represents Ms. Schiavo's parents, filed a Writ of Quo Warranto, demanding that Mr. Schiavo demonstrate what authority he has to deny his wife visits from her immediate family. Should the Schindlers fail to pay, they would be denied visitation rights.

Ms. Schiavo currently has an off-duty police person, paid for by Hospice of the Florida Suncoast, assigned to her on a 24 hour a day basis. Additionally, the Schindlers have reported that, during their visits, nursing staff frequently enter their daughter's room.

Ms. Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, have not been permitted to visit her since March 29, 2004 (39 days), when attorney George Felos of Dunedin issued a press release stating that suspicious marks were found on her arm. A toxicology study conducted on Ms. Schiavo concluded that no unauthorized chemicals were found in her system. Ms. Schiavo's parents, along with her siblings, had attempted to visit her the following day at Park Place Assisted Living and were turned away by nursing staff in compliance with "Mr. Schiavo's orders".

Statement of Attorney Patricia Anderson:

By recommending that the financially-strapped Schindlers may only visit Terri if they pay yet another off-duty police person to accompany them, is an effort to inhibit them from freely seeing their own daughter. A couple of years ago, Michael Schiavo contacted Terri's parents and offered to give the balance of Terri's money over to charity. He and his attorneys used this a talking point for the media - claiming that Michael had no financial interest in Terri's death. What they neglected to mention was that that particular offer was predicated upon the Schindler's agreeing to Terri's dehydration and starvation death.

This latest tactic from Ms. Bushnell is really no different. I will not be surprised if Ms. Bushnell uses this as another talking point with the media in an attempt to make her and her client appear less cruel.

No mother should have to pay an admission fee to see her child on Mother's Day. Perhaps Ms. Bushnell has forgotten how most people spend Mother's Day."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: howlowwilltheygo; schiavo; terrischiavo; terrislaw
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To: Artlover
Bump
351 posted on 05/09/2004 9:37:46 AM PDT by pc93
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To: William Terrell
You need to read the Larry King interview with Michael and Felos.
352 posted on 05/09/2004 9:40:18 AM PDT by pc93
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To: Artlover
Bump
353 posted on 05/09/2004 9:45:01 AM PDT by pc93
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To: William Terrell
So, the judge loves Michael and hates Terri? And is anxious to ignore the law to do so?

Greer could have a number of motivations. One thing which seems apparent from his handling of the case is that he has on a number of occasions 'let things slide' which he should not have. My personal suspicion is that the first few times he let things slide, it was out of a combination of laziness and incompetance; later, he came to recotnize that he had to continue to let things slide, no matter how outrageous they became, because to do otherwise would be to call attention to his earlier misfeasance and malfeasance.

If Michael loses guardianship of Terri, the new guardian will be required by law to audit the books that Michael was supposed to have kept and Judge Greer was supposed to have overseen. If the records show what they likely do (or, in WT-speak, have a 50% chance of showing) then Greer, Felos, and Schiavo are all going to be in a lot of trouble if they have to show the records to anyone charged with protecting Terri's interests.

As for the appeals courts, they're generally not well-designed to deal with judicial malfeasance and misfeasance. If a judge gives a rationalle for a decision which is legally faulty, an appeals court may require that the judge reconsider the case using a legally-correct one. On the other hand, if a judge gives a rationalle which would be correct if the evidence were as he claims it to be, appeals courts are often bound by trial courts' findings of fact.

It is only a slight exaggeration to suggest that if Terri were to walk into Greer's courtroom and Felos put up a doctor who testified that was merely a "reflex" action, that a finding by Greer to that effect would be almost unchallengeable (in fact, in that particular case, appeals courts might decide that the claim that an amulatory person was vegetative could not be believed by any reasonable judge, but there'd be no guarantee of that).

354 posted on 05/09/2004 11:15:44 AM PDT by supercat (Why is it that the more "gun safety" laws are passed, the less safe my guns seem?)
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To: FL_engineer; cyn; FR_addict; windchime; Budge; Deo volente; nicmarlo; Ohioan from Florida; ...
-ping to 354-

>> the new guardian will be required by law to audit the books that Michael was supposed to have kept and Judge Greer was supposed to have overseen<<
355 posted on 05/09/2004 11:21:11 AM PDT by phenn (http://www.terrisfight.org)
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To: pc93; All
I have a few questions.

Who was the Judge, the attorney(s) and the doctor(s) for MS when he had his parents "done in"?

What about his grandmother, who had spent weeks unconscious on a ventilator...did he have her "done in"?

Can we expect to read about these relatives of MS in a book? How many dead relatives does MS have to give the author before its a book deal?

356 posted on 05/09/2004 11:48:46 AM PDT by Chocolate Rose
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To: William Terrell
Troll, troll go away and never come back. You must certainly work for Michael Schiavo. Nothing you say makes any sense.
357 posted on 05/09/2004 1:02:01 PM PDT by amdgmary
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To: William Terrell
Go find it for yourself or hire a secretary. Again, are you new at this? The Schindlers have only been saying this for YEARS. All the court docs are there. Knock yourself out.
358 posted on 05/09/2004 5:21:46 PM PDT by phenn (http://www.terrisfight.org)
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To: amdgmary; William Terrell; All
William Terrell is not spying on you. The blue apple is a picture, nothing more.
359 posted on 05/09/2004 5:31:11 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: pc93; Ohioan from Florida
http://www.propertyrightsresearch.org/2004/articles5/americans_fighting_back.htm

Major Effort For Terri in OHIO... Check it out

360 posted on 05/09/2004 5:53:23 PM PDT by floriduh voter (If You are a Troll, You Are Only Hurting Yourself... www.terrisfight.org)
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To: phenn; All; russesjunjee; GWB and GOP Man; JulieRNR21; cyn; Republic; Politicalmom; Pegita; ...
Please wish all of the mothers that are helping Terri a Happy Mothers Day.

I wish everyone knew how grateful my family is for everything that everyone is doing to help Terri - they are all truly a Blessing and a Gift to Terri from God, because Lord knows we could never do this ourselves.

xxxxx Terri's Brother

361 posted on 05/09/2004 6:01:14 PM PDT by floriduh voter (If You are a Troll, You Are Only Hurting Yourself... www.terrisfight.org)
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To: floriduh voter
How very sweet of him. I really appreciate that kind and thoughtful note.

I am a mother who is blessed to tuck my children into bed at night and to care for them as they need it. I hurt for Mrs. Schindler, who is denied that simple opportunity.

May God keep Terri and her family safe and well until they can be reunited. May He -- please -- soften the hard hearts so that those involved will just do their jobs as they are supposed to, and protect Terri from further harm.
362 posted on 05/09/2004 6:08:37 PM PDT by cyn (http://www.terrisfight.org)
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To: mass55th
I bet they'd be able to find off-duty police officers who would offer to do it for free. They should contact the local police department and ask for volunteers.

I think you have a good idea.

Maybe we should all call the police department and ask them to have one of their men perform this duty as part of the investigation into the case they are supposedly conducting about the needle marks. That way they can investigate the Schindlers up close and personal and Michael can't claim the Schindlers harmed Terri.

This story is getting sicker and sicker. How the Schindlers are able to cope with Michael's evilness is beyond me.

363 posted on 05/09/2004 6:32:43 PM PDT by FR_addict
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To: WFTR
You would think that a case could be filed on Terri's behalf to divorce Michael based on the grounds of adultery. Apparently it can't be done, because it is her guardian who has to initiate it and her guardian is Michael.
364 posted on 05/09/2004 8:25:11 PM PDT by TOUGH STOUGH
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To: supercat
The freeper you argued with is one of the strongest proponent of legalizing ALL drugs. (his posting history makes that quite obvious).
Here is one of his more lucid posts where he doesn't hide his true beliefs behind incessant legalese or verbal obfuscation...
      "I want the legalization of drugs because the WOD [war on drugs] is causing Constitutional protections to erode in our country."

So, to comment in general, on ALL disruptors LIKE HIM, and to phrase this in typical disruptor style....
There is at least a 50% chance a freeper like this is HIMSELF a USER of hard drugs. And if so, then there is at least a 50% chance that a freeper like this would choose a SATURDAY NIGHT to get stoned/high/whatever. After all, he might not be able to perform well in court the next day if he snorted or shot up on a weeknight. Wouldn't that help explain someone's rediculous illogic and inability to focus past his own computer monitor?
365 posted on 05/09/2004 9:28:15 PM PDT by Future Useless Eater (FreedomLoving_Engineer)
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To: phenn; All
>>[to the blueapple guy]Tell me, why are you defending this judge's behavior?

Feel free to decide for yourselves if you think our blueapple Felos-supporter is a lawyer or a federal judge. In one of his posts, he cites 17 federal cases, much like a lawyer or judge would...

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a38b452e44858.htm#261 (post 261)

366 posted on 05/09/2004 9:31:36 PM PDT by Future Useless Eater (FreedomLoving_Engineer)
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To: phenn
I am a Little disgusted right now... I come here to find out the latest on Terri and find a whole lotta debate going on with a troll who by the way wants Terri dead.....Why don't we all just ignore TROLL B GONE
367 posted on 05/09/2004 9:34:53 PM PDT by fiesti
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To: TOUGH STOUGH
>>But Christopher Reeves and Stephen Hawking also cannot survive without physical help from others. Therefore, according to you, they must not want to live and therefore shouldn't.

Our blueapple visitor posted the following PUBLICLY on the Carla Iyer affidavit thread...

I will leave it to others with better psychology training to tell us if this could be affecting his attitude toward Terri.

I am sorry Mr. Terrell had never heard of the excellent results Dr. Hammesfahr has achieved with helping completely vegetative stroke victims to recover some or most of their functioning. The same doctor that offered to treat Terri for free.

368 posted on 05/09/2004 9:36:56 PM PDT by Future Useless Eater (FreedomLoving_Engineer)
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To: FL_engineer
Thank you for the reply, FL_engineer. Your new found information explains a lot.

I had a friend in a similar situation with her father-in-law. They removed the feeding tube. We got into a discussion last year about feeding tubes, which got rather heated and she told me about the decision they made regarding her father-in-law. She said it was his time to die. I know a discussion with her about Terri would go much the same. She doesn't believe in feeding tubes, period. It seems that WT has the same mindset.

Devices like those that have helped Stephen Hawking would be good for folks like Terri, and victims of strokes like another poster subtley suggested. But perhaps if Terri could receive therapy, she wouldn't even need a device. I hate the hopeless situation Terri has been plunged into when there is indeed ample reason for hope in her case.

From the bottom of my heart I thank all those like yourself who have done so much on her behalf. You are all truly quite remarkable. : )

369 posted on 05/09/2004 10:05:08 PM PDT by TOUGH STOUGH
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To: William Terrell
The point about the brain transplant is you need to undergo major deprogramming.
370 posted on 05/09/2004 10:23:50 PM PDT by yesnettv (We need to decide to save Terri's life. I did.)
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To: amdgmary; Chocolate Rose; floriduh voter; Ohioan from Florida; iowamomforfreedom; pc93; ...
` 365
371 posted on 05/09/2004 10:32:17 PM PDT by Future Useless Eater (FreedomLoving_Engineer)
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To: FL_engineer; Jim Robinson; All
The war on drugs is a complete failure when you look at the "stated goal" of the mission. This poster you are referring to has nerve to even mention the erosion of constitutional protections, while calling for a fellow human being to be cruelly put to death.

On a personal note, I don't care if the stuff becomes legal, because people will buy the stuff anyway. I've spent the last 25 years in neighborhoods watching the drug trade, and who benefits. The criminals and the government, that's who.

Don't let this red herring lead you astray. Anyone can come up with an online persona, and a set of beliefs. The guy could be drowning his liver in single malt Scotch for all we know. This particular poster is nauseating, and he's doing it on purpose. That's why I didn't do a total smackdown on him this morning. I smell a rat. Perhaps the presence of trolls on the Terri threads could have a positive meaning. It means we're making headway, albeit frustratingly slow, but small gains are better than no gains at all.

This is a public forum, and anyone can view our posts. I'm sure that many of our opponenents on various issues mine this site for various reasons. That is a hazard of free speech on the internet. We cannot let trolls keep us from doing what we feel is right. There is a woman who needs our help. Will we all succeed? That depends on God's plan, not a troll.
372 posted on 05/10/2004 1:07:10 AM PDT by TheSpottedOwl (Torrance Ca....land of the flying monkeys)
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To: TheSpottedOwl; FL_engineer
I had abondoned this thread after I posted my opinions and realized this cause had reached farmers with pitchforks witch buring stage.

I'm sorry you don't like my opinion. I'm sorry you assign all sorts of absurd assumptions about me as a result of it.

FL_engineer, how can you think clearly when you are hysterical? Here, here's two apples for you, which must mean I'm spying on you twice. Get a grip man.

373 posted on 05/10/2004 7:57:52 AM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: FL_engineer; All
Would you like to make your accusations to me? And defend them? I'm calling you out. Here, now. Put up or shut up.

374 posted on 05/10/2004 8:14:14 AM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: amdgmary; yesnettv; phenn; supercat; pc93; iowamomforfreedom; Artlover; FL_engineer; mtbopfuyn
It appears that my questions and comments have disturbed the lot of you. FL_engineer went off the deep end.

I'll tell you where I'm coming from on this Shiavo issue, and you can like it or not, agree with it or not.

To me, this is not about a judge, Mr. Shiavo, the Schindlers or any other player or misplayer.

I'm nearing 60. The chance that I may find myself in a similar shape as Terri Shiavo is a possibliity, and becomes more a possibility as I get older.

The thought that I may be trapped in a minimally living body, with endless days of mere existence, with no way out except death, with a lot of people who do not know me working overtime to keep me from going to my Lord makes me afraid and angry.

And questions to you all are based on these considerations. I believe in God. I believe in an afterlife. I wonder if many of you here do, too.

The Shiavo situaltion has the positive effect of motivating me to get a living will. My pity and compassion goes out to Mrs. Shiavo, who was too young to think of such a thing.

That's all I have to say. Blessings on you, and take it or leave it.

375 posted on 05/10/2004 8:57:24 AM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: cyn
This is Terri's 42nd day of forced isolation from her parents, siblings,
priest, those who love her and her 1491st day confined to just a single
small room by Hospice of the Florida Suncoast (give or take a few days
of having to be in the hospital from neglect and almost being
dehydrated/starved to death).

Just when you thought the bottom of the barrel was being reached. now there
is a fax from Michael Schiavo's attorney Deborah Bushnell that the
Schindlers could be permitted to visit their daughter if they pay for an off
duty police officer to accompany them (arranged by Deborah Bushnell & Co. of
course):

                     Deborah A. Bushnell
                          Attorney
                     204 Scotland Street
                      Dunedin, FL 34698
                     Phone: (727)733-9064


By Facsimile: (727) 898-4903

                                                   May 06, 2004

Patricia Fields Anderson, Esq.
447 Third Avenue N., Suite 405
St. Petersburg, FL  33701

Re: Schiavo, Theresa - #1834 -Guardianship

Dear Pat:

I received your fax dated May 4, 2004.

We inquired of Hospice as to whether they would allow their
security officers to be in the room during Robert and Mary
Schindlers' visitation.  To date, we have not received their
consent to this arrangement, and it does not seem likely that
such an arrangement can be made with them in the near future.

In the interim, the Schindlers may visit Terri in the presence
of a security officer.  However, we would have to make private
security options.  If your clients are agreeable to paying the
cost of such supervision, please let us know, and we will
follow up to make arrangements for the visitation and let you
know the cost.


                                          Sincerely,



                                          <signed>
                                          Deborah A. Bushnell


cc Michael Schiavo
   George J. Felos, Esq.
   Scott P. Swope, Esq.

+++

Terri is denied any extensive/comprehensive range of motion therapy or any
kind of therapies that could make her better. Terri is not terminal yet
Michael Schiavo is trying hard to make it so. AHCA's April 1st investigation
didn't see anything wrong with Terri's teeth yet shortly after their
investigation 5 teeth were completely removed from her mouth, with no
restorative work considered. How could the AHCA not have noticed anything
wrong? The surveyors notes of this investigation are a must read. They show
to what lengths Hospice of Florida Suncoast, Michael Schiavo, etc. are going
to deceive investigators to cover up the fraud and criminal neglect they are
committing upon Terri, the people of Florida, United States and the world.
The AHCA appears to be complicit in aiding and abetting these crimes. These
Chapter 119 documents are available upon request.

There is a big question: WHAT ARE YOU AND YOUR FEDERAL AND
STATE GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS DOING ABOUT BRINGING THE
PERPETRATORS TO JUSTICE? Contact the senators for your district and
ask them what can be done, there are any number of actions that can be
taken.

Contact as many people as you can (governmental and non-governmental)
about Terri's plight. Make stickers, bumper stickers, licence plates,
posters, etc.

Be creative, do take action.

"Petition for State protective custody for Terri" (please get the petition
information out to as many peoples as possible)
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/chisana7/

"Saving Terri Schiavo"
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/19461949/

Laws being broken:
http://zimp.org/

Petition for Governor Bush to put Terri in protective custody:
http://www.petitiononline.com/chisana7/petition.html

Connect the Dots ... for Terri
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1130771/posts?page=11#11

http://www.terrisfight.org
 
376 posted on 05/10/2004 9:31:12 AM PDT by pc93
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To: William Terrell
Look, as to your last post, I'd like to comment. If you so desire to not be trapped in a "minimally living body,with endless days of mere existence..." I have no problem with that, and I doubt other posters here feel any differently. You are free to choose what you wish for yourself! Get that living will if that would make you feel better.

In my opinion, and while I can only speak for myself, there are many here who object to the way the Florida law has been handled in Terri's case. The law allowing Michael to remove her feeding tube is being retoactively applied to Terri as if she could mind-read forward 9 years ahead of her collapse! How could she have known or consented to something which wasn't brought up (even in the law) by the time of her collapse? She couldn't have...no one could have.

If Terri would never have wanted to live hooked up to "tubes", and Michael was aware of this...why, oh why would he have had her resuscitated and hooked up to a feeding tube all those years ago? When she came out of her coma, she used to be able to swallow, she could eat small amounts. It is not up to us to decide if Terri would want to live or die. The law tells us clearly that if she she responds, she cannot have that feeding tube removed unless there is clear and convincing evidence that proves she would want to have it removed.

Furthermore, although she may not wish to live hooked up to "tubes", it is not mutally excluded that she may wish to relearn to swallow. She may wish to at least have liquid nutrition by mouth. Terri swallows her own drool. Just because she can't eat orally right now doesn't mean that her feeding tube should be removed without giving her the chance to try. Maybe Terri wants hope. Maybe Michael is taking away Terri's hope. He does not have that right! None of us do.

Terri has had many opportunities to move on to the afterlife if she and God both desired that outcome. Modern medicine is not keeping her from going. It may have kept her from going back in 1990, but it is not keeping her from going now. If Terri were to have a heart attack, or kidney failure, or lung failure, etc, etc, no one would suggest that Terri be resuscitated. That would be keeping her alive indefinitely. But a feeding tube such as the kind that Terri has (yes, there are different types) is not a modern medical device.

If you are so upset that Terri is leading a minimally-existent life, perhaps you should be more concerned that her so-called "husband" and guardian does not allow her to be removed from her room via wheelchair (which she has) to be in fresh air, to feel sunshine or rain.

You seem to think that BECAUSE YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND how life could be meaningful to Terri, that life couldn't be meaningful to Terri or anyone else in her same condition. Yet, I tell you that because you have not walked in Terri's shoes, you cannot know for sure how Terri views her life. You seem to think that because it wouldn't be what you want, it couldn't be what Terri wants. And you seem to think that, because we are reasonably sure that none of us knows what Terri wants, that Michael's word is as good as it gets. I'm sorry. That's where I disagree with you. And if the law says that's okay, that's where I disagree with the law, too.

I have family in Florida. I was born and raised there. I go there to visit. I take my own family there from time to time. What happens in Terri's case is important to me, too. And I don't agree with the decision to show this girl the exit door, because of the reasons I gave above.

There is too much doubt about what caused Terri's collapse.

There's too much doubt about the motives of her "husband" and his fiancee.

There's too much doubt about whether or not Terri's guardian has filed the paperwork approving his guardianship of her the way it should have been.

There's too much doubt about whether Terri would want to live like this or not.

There's too much doubt about whether or not rehabilitation methods could/would work for Terri.

There's too much doubt as to whether Terri is PVS (did I fail to mention that it is misdiagnosed almost 50% of the time - medical fact...look it up).

IN SHORT, there's TOO MUCH DOUBT about almost every aspect of this case!

Wouldn't you agree that when we're talking about the finality of death these grave doubts should be put confirmed one way or the other? I do. The fact that Greer seems to think these issues are settled does not make that it a reality.

May God bless you and yours, for in the end, as in the beginning, we belong to Him.
377 posted on 05/10/2004 10:10:53 AM PDT by Ohioan from Florida (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.- Edmund Burke)
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To: pickyourpoison
bttt
378 posted on 05/10/2004 10:29:27 AM PDT by pickyourpoison (" Laus Deo ")
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To: floriduh voter
JUDGE W. DOUGLAS BAIRD ruled Terri's Law unconstitutional after telegraphing that he felt Terri's Law was unconstitutional before SCHIAVO V. BUSH WAS HEARD. I was just looking back through pings to try and find something and I read your post again and just realized what a bogus situation this was. Any prospective juror who said the same thing as Judge Baird would probably not be picked to serve on the jury. We have a hypocrist in action here!! Since he's a judge that disqualifies him from being barred from hearing a case even though he publicly showed bias. B-O-L-O-G-N-A
379 posted on 05/10/2004 10:41:05 AM PDT by tutstar ( <{{--->< http://ripe4change.4-all.org)
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To: tutstar
Baird is far too biased and appears to have a conflict of interest (bribe? blackmail?) to be kept on this case.
380 posted on 05/10/2004 10:46:46 AM PDT by Dante3
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To: Ohioan from Florida
Yes, all I can do is speak for myself. And all anyone else can do is speak for themselves. Yes, there is doubt. I'd say there is always doubt about any case unless there is clear evidence. That's why we have jury trials.

When I post my opinions, I come out of my fears, thoughts, considerations and beliefs about justice, fairness, and the effect of law on the people, of which I'm one.

When I look at this controversy, my judgment is, whether true or not, that all the others that post on this subject are doing the same. I'm sorry, I might be wrong, but I don't see much concern for Terri herself.

I see reactions to events centered around Terri and the use of Terri politically to address those events. And see this camouflaged as love and caring for Terri. Maybe I'm out of line, but, God help me, it angers me to see this.

Maybe there can be justice in this case. How, can you tell me, will the doubt be removed? The events will keep on regardless of my opinion. But I, before God, will express them, and I haven't seen one reason to abate them.

I'll tell you this. Beyond my considerations in this matter, I personally believe the Mr. Shiavo is trying to avoid a personal responsibility to his wife he accepted before God when he married her, and he is using the rights that matrimony gives him from centuries of English and American law to do it.

I'm not talking about confusing statutes that states enact for money and power. I talking about ancient common law that has worked for our cultures for a very, very long time. I'm talking about this because I'm a conservative.

Over the centuries, we have benefited from these laws and customs built up around marriage and personal relationships. There is always bad people that use good laws to further their own ends. I see that these customs are challenged at their core by the egregiousness of one case.

This is what I see. The common law must survive a bad man and a bad judge for the good of all. The common law was changed in just such a manner to allow nofault divorce without having to have a clear cause, and that is helping mightily to destroy this culture, the one in which I live and depend on for security.

Right or wrong, That's what I think. And I'll face all the farmers with pitchforks in the country to say it. The blessings of Christ to your and yours also.

381 posted on 05/10/2004 10:56:50 AM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: Dante3
Which is why Jeb's attorney asked that Baird be recused from the case, but no, the answer was, no.
382 posted on 05/10/2004 11:02:09 AM PDT by Ohioan from Florida (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.- Edmund Burke)
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To: Ohioan from Florida
Which is why Jeb's attorney asked that Baird be recused from the case, but no, the answer was, no.

Who ruled on that one?

383 posted on 05/10/2004 11:10:10 AM PDT by Krodg
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To: William Terrell
WILLIAL TERRELL WROTE: "...Is this about what is the best for Terri or what is best for her parents. It has been done time and again, once a person concedes one legal point, immediate lawsuits are filed to proceed with others. Maybe Mr. Shiavo is concerned with that. I would be. This is why there are a lack of apologies on the slavery reparations issue.

Terri's parents' are concerned that Terri's health, safety and even LIFE are at stake! Her parents WANT her and WANT to remove her from danger.

On the other hand, Terri's "loving"-Hitleresque-lying-adultering-possibly-attepmted-murderer-"husband"-in-name-only is giving ALL signs of attempting to KILL her to keep her QUIET so she cannot TELL what REALLY happened to her that fateful night long ago and in the year after that when she suffered BROKEN BONES all over her body.

I'm sure Michael is concerned with THE DEATH PENALTY if Terri should ever get the $750,000 of THERAPY that HE got for HER THERAPY after telling the JURY (i.e. under oath) that he loved Terri and wanted to help her the rest of his life---never ONCE mentioning during THAT lawsuit that she "wanted to die."

WILLIAL TERRELL ADDED: "And perhaps Mr. Shiavo really believes Terri would want to die. That you don't believe him from evidence meaningful to you is worth no more than anyone else's opinion about and view of that same evidence.

What Mr. Schiavo claims he believes Terri wants and what Terri actually wants are likely to be two different things. If Terri did not make a FULLY INFORMED Advanced Directive (which she did not), he has no business being allowed to KILL her via removal of food.

As the mother of a severely mentally and physically disabled daughter, I can tell you---FIRST HAND---that parents of disabled children LOVE their children even though they are disabled!

Terri's parents WANT to take Terri even without getting the $750,000 that Michael Schiavo apparently DEFRAUDED a court out of when he CONVENIENTLY FAILED to mention Terri's alleged claim to want to die while he ALSO claimed he was wanting to get the $750,000 for Terri's THERAPY.

Terri's parents have ONLY Terri's safety, health and LIFE in mind. "Loving"-Hitleresque-adulterer-husband ONLY wants to KEEP the apparently FRAUDULENTLY-gained money AND keep from getting the DEATH PENALTY if Terri ever regains her ability to TELL what happened.

384 posted on 05/10/2004 11:10:24 AM PDT by Concerned
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To: William Terrell
WILLIAL TERRELL WROTE: "...Is this about what is the best for Terri or what is best for her parents. It has been done time and again, once a person concedes one legal point, immediate lawsuits are filed to proceed with others. Maybe Mr. Shiavo is concerned with that. I would be. This is why there are a lack of apologies on the slavery reparations issue.

Terri's parents' are concerned that Terri's health, safety and even LIFE are at stake! Her parents WANT her and WANT to remove her from danger.

On the other hand, Terri's "loving"-Hitleresque-lying-adultering-possibly-attepmted-murderer-"husband"-in-name-only is giving ALL signs of attempting to KILL her to keep her QUIET so she cannot TELL what REALLY happened to her that fateful night long ago and in the year after that when she suffered BROKEN BONES all over her body.

I'm sure Michael is concerned with THE DEATH PENALTY if Terri should ever get the $750,000 of THERAPY that HE got for HER THERAPY after telling the JURY (i.e. under oath) that he loved Terri and wanted to help her the rest of his life---never ONCE mentioning during THAT lawsuit that she "wanted to die."

WILLIAL TERRELL ADDED: "And perhaps Mr. Shiavo really believes Terri would want to die. That you don't believe him from evidence meaningful to you is worth no more than anyone else's opinion about and view of that same evidence.

What Mr. Schiavo claims he believes Terri wants and what Terri actually wants are likely to be two different things. If Terri did not make a FULLY INFORMED Advanced Directive (which she did not), he has no business being allowed to KILL her via removal of food.

As the mother of a severely mentally and physically disabled daughter, I can tell you---FIRST HAND---that parents of disabled children LOVE their children even though they are disabled!

Terri's parents WANT to take Terri even without getting the $750,000 that Michael Schiavo apparently DEFRAUDED a court out of when he CONVENIENTLY FAILED to mention Terri's alleged claim to want to die while he ALSO claimed he was wanting to get the $750,000 for Terri's THERAPY.

Terri's parents have ONLY Terri's safety, health and LIFE in mind. "Loving"-Hitleresque-adulterer-husband ONLY wants to KEEP the apparently FRAUDULENTLY-gained money AND keep from getting the DEATH PENALTY if Terri ever regains her ability to TELL what happened.

385 posted on 05/10/2004 11:10:25 AM PDT by Concerned
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To: tutstar; cyn
Of course it's baloney in our favorite Sixth Judicial Circuit. Please visit www.conservative-spirit.org for some encouraging news on the front page.
386 posted on 05/10/2004 11:13:22 AM PDT by floriduh voter (If You are a Troll, You Are Only Hurting Yourself. www.conservative-spirit.org (FV))
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To: Concerned
I took care of my brain damaged mother for 5 years and destroyed my career to do it, although I benefited in other ways. I know something about the matter. Thank you for accurately reproducing my posts.

Michael Shiavo is more than likely a criminal in his heart, but he has the backing of law, and common law. God will judge him when human law can't.

387 posted on 05/10/2004 11:19:39 AM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: William Terrell
You are wrong to assume that there is no concern for Terri herself just because you choose not to see it that way.

You said, "I see reactions to events centered around Terri and the use of Terri politically to address those events. And see this camouflaged as love and caring for Terri. Maybe I'm out of line, but, God help me, it angers me to see this." This is exactly what I feel, too, but perhaps from a different perspective.

I see Michael having impure motivations for doing this to Terri, camouflaged as love and caring. If he really loved Terri, he wouldn't have procreated two children with the woman he's living with out-of-wedlock. If he really loved Terri, and cared for her, he would give her the best of care, including dental cleanings twice a year. He would allow her to have range of motion therapy. He would allow her to have swallow tests. He would allow her parents and family to see her free of charge. If he loved Terri, he would let her be wheeled out into the fresh air or to go to an exotic bird show. He would allow her stimulation of a variety of sorts. I wouldn't wish his type of love and caring on my greatest enemy.

I see a fame and money hungry lawyer (Felos) going after his next kill. He would be a two-bit lawyer if it weren't for the notoriety of the Estelle Browning case, in which he made a name for himself.

I see a judge, who very well may be incompetent to be doing the important job he's been allowed to do for the last several years. His motivation for continuing to rule as he does has more to do with admitting that he has overlooked many laws to begin with, and so now has to cover that up by continuing to do the unethical thing. He has had ample opportunity to fess up and to let someone else take the case over, but he thinks he is being more honorable by sticking with it.

Finally, I see a group of pro-euthanasia advocates within the hospice industry, tainting the true mission of the hospice movement. It's possible they were there all along, pushing this agenda to kill off people who are helpless, and "we" just didn't see their masquerade. Hospice says it's there to help deal with the end-of-life. That doesn't necessarily mean we should be pushing people over the edge.

It angers me to see Terri being used in this way. She is a real person and has a real value, even if only truly known by God Himself. But the fact that Terri is a sister to me as a child of God, well, I care about who she is and how she feels, even if what she feels is far different than anything I know or have experienced.

What I can tell you is that when I was younger, I didn't think that I'd want to live an imperfect life, but as I got older I realized that none of us lives a perfect life. We get what we get, sometimes of our own doing. There have been times where I have gone through quite a bit of pain and suffering, sometimes physical and sometimes mental, and now that I'm past that people say, "How'd you ever make it through that?" And I can't tell them except for the grace of God. It was tough, but not impossible. It wasn't much fun, but it wasn't always dismal. I spent a lot of time in prayer.

I think it's possible that Terri is able to endure her ordeal so far, because God is with her in a special way. Maybe even in a way so special that we here on Earth don't/can't understand unless God gives us the grace to understand.

I care about Terri because she is a sister to me, a sister in Christ, another of God's children. I wouldn't want what's happening to Terri to happen to any other person, including her husband, his lawyer, or the judges. The laws in Florida have been written so that this SHOULDN'T be happening to Terri, but they are. So how do we get the laws of Florida to be executed properly? You'd think that Judge Greer should be able to handle this, but in fact, he may truly be incompetent. Why isn't he taking care of his own paperwork? He should never have let this get to this point, but since he has, there must be some legal way to remedy this situation. This is wrong, and it really doesn't matter to me if there are laws saying Michael can do this. There are plenty of laws that say he can't. Now what do the common people do?
388 posted on 05/10/2004 11:49:53 AM PDT by Ohioan from Florida (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.- Edmund Burke)
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To: Krodg
Baird himself.
389 posted on 05/10/2004 11:51:24 AM PDT by Ohioan from Florida (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.- Edmund Burke)
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To: Ohioan from Florida
Well, actually, the common people are doing what the common people can do. All I can do is pray that their efforts aren't used to further destroy the common law about marriage any more than it already has.

390 posted on 05/10/2004 11:56:13 AM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: TheSpottedOwl
This poster you are referring to has nerve to even mention the erosion of constitutional protections, while calling for a fellow human being to be cruelly put to death.

As you said in your private reply this statemnt should be discussed publicly since you stated it publicly. Good.

First of all, reproduce the post where I said I a fellow human being should be put to death.

Second, I admit I can't see any relationship between the two concepts, so you should explain it to me.

391 posted on 05/10/2004 12:30:04 PM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: TheSpottedOwl; William Terrell
You gave me a choice to debate a statement I made either in public or private. As I indicated to you, I prefer public since I made this statement in public.

This poster you are referring to has nerve to even mention the erosion of constitutional protections, while calling for a fellow human being to be cruelly put to death.

Prison inmates are constitutionally protected from cruel and unusual punishment. When the state executes criminals, they are given lethal injection for the most part, because activists consider the electric chair cruel.

We have heard of several people who were brain aware of what was happening to them, although doctors and loved ones didn't realize this. One woman wrote a book about her experience being starved and dehydrated. God helped this woman muster enough strength to make the doctor and nurses take notice. There have been other instances of this. Talk about cruel and unusual punishment. These people went through agony.

The reason why we all feel so strongly about Terri is that she does respond, and that her family and independent specialists are deliberately being prevented from helping her. Her husband is determined to kill her. This is murder, and she has a constitutional right to be protected. This is a very disturbing situation. Here we have a woman who was injured under suspicious circumstances. Her husband lied about her care needs to win a fat malpractice suit and a medical trust fund. All of a sudden he remembers that Terri wouldn't want to be kept alive on machines.

Terri's parents have offered to let Michael Schiavo keep the money and just divorce her. Think about it William. This man has had a relationship with a woman that has produced 2 children. Why not just divorce Terri? We may be on different sides of the basic issue, but there is nothing basic about this, and if you'd really take a look at the evidence, I think you'd see there is something else going on disgused as a right to die issue.

I believe in appropriate care until natural death. Sometimes family members go overboard when it is clear that their loved one is brain dead. All Terri has is a feeding tube. It is comfort care, not technically life support. She isn't brain dead, she responds and there is video to support that fact.

Our constitution and the rights they provide are being challenged in many different areas. This is the slippery slope. If Michael Schiavo gets away with murder, none of us, including you William will be safe.

392 posted on 05/10/2004 1:05:40 PM PDT by TheSpottedOwl (Torrance Ca....land of the flying monkeys)
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To: FR_addict; dandelion; cyn; floriduh voter; dixiegrrl; Ethan_Allen; atruelady; lonevoice; ...
That's great news. You know? I was told that Felos used Sen King's statement that he regretted voting for Terri's law during part of the court proceedings.

What I'm about to say would qualify as a 'tin foil hat' theory to some but it seems to be a little clearer to me how this is playing out.

All the anti-Terri statements from Senator King have been to media 'outside his district' but near the area where the case is being tried.

Felos is tied to hospice, Greer has a tie to hospice through a colleague, Jim King is tied to hospice. Jim King is determined to keep the statutes just as they are. He knows there is little to no coverage of any of this in his district and that is why he will make such comments in that area freely because the scene has already been set to push the pro-death agenda in that area. I doubt very seriously that the decisions that have been made in Terri's case would have come down the same way here in Jax, could be wrong but don't think I am.

Look who made a contribution to King's campaign in 1999, Jerger & Sons

King Jr, James E. "Jim" (REP)(STS) 01/20/1999 500.00 CHE
JERGER & SONS INC
7785 66TH ST N
PINELLAS PARK, FL 33781

I looked up Jerger at Sunbiz.org
and found this
MOBILE ADJUSTMENT COMPANY
Richard M Jerger Jr. (the same name as listed on Jerger & Centonze Insurance & the address matches the one which was used for the campaign contribution to King)
PRINCIPAL ADDRESS
7785 66TH ST N
PINELLAS PARK FL 34664-8080 US

There are other businesses listed under Richard Jerger Sr which also list Jerger Jr as an agent.

Why were they donating to King when they aren't even living in his district?
393 posted on 05/10/2004 1:12:25 PM PDT by tutstar ( <{{--->< http://ripe4change.4-all.org)
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To: William Terrell
Reproduce the post? Good Lord, lol it will take me all day. Well Terri is being put to death in the cruelest fashion. It's one thing to keep a terminal patient comfortable and let God take over, quite another to starve someone to death.

We rely on judges to follow the law, not their personal convictions. When their person convictions outweigh their duty to uphold the law, the recipient of such conduct is being denied basic civil rights that are supposedly guaranteed under the Constitution.

I hope that offers some kind of explaination between the issues.

I am truly sorry to hear about your mom, and how it affected you. Taking care of a disabled family member can take its toll.

You have to understand that people have deliberately come to this site to cause all kinds of trouble. Most of us don't go to sites and forums that we disagree with. There's been a lot of monkey business going on around here, and when you're dealing with a controversial situation complete with judges who won't follow the law, one can get pretty edgy.
394 posted on 05/10/2004 1:22:09 PM PDT by TheSpottedOwl (Torrance Ca....land of the flying monkeys)
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To: tutstar
Wow, nice catch tutstar!
395 posted on 05/10/2004 1:26:20 PM PDT by iowamomforfreedom (The right to die? or the right to be killed - http://www.life-or-death-decisions.org)
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To: tutstar
For those that missed the petitiion thread:

Remove Florida Senator Jim King from Office Petition
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1132398/posts

396 posted on 05/10/2004 1:30:44 PM PDT by FR_addict
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To: tutstar
TO PROTECT HIS LEGACY so that the happy couple could starve the innocent wife. Ya think that they are "concerned" when Tom Lee takes over in the fall? You betcha.

That's why we help Terri whether she's IN CRISIS OR JUST BEING HELD HOSTAGE.

The news media has supressed this story as much as possible or switched the stories to markets based probably on their wink and nod relationships with the likes of people like JIM KING. If it's about him and it's good, Jax news covers. If it's about this HORRID DEATH BUSINESS, a complete news blackout.

397 posted on 05/10/2004 1:56:19 PM PDT by floriduh voter (If You are a Troll, You Are Only Hurting Yourself. www.conservative-spirit.org (FV))
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To: fiesti
William Terrell aka apple guy said he was done posting on Terri threads and then he re-emerged. BUT THE LITTLE BLUE APPLE hasn't returned with him. Of course this is one troll I'm way over. I think his posts are confusing on purpose to disrupt and get us off track from our purpose here which is to help save Terri which will help save thousands, millions, billions and trillions of Terris yet to be.

Read my tag line, visit my web site home page today. I have good news there...

398 posted on 05/10/2004 1:59:38 PM PDT by floriduh voter (If You are a Troll, You Are Only Hurting Yourself. www.conservative-spirit.org (FV))
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To: iowamomforfreedom; All; floriduh voter; cyn
here's another $500.00 to
King from

500.00 CHE
THE JEGER COMPANY INC
78TH AVE & 66TH STREET NORTH
PINEALLAS PARK, FL 34664

It is misspelled at the Div Elect site but you can pull it up at Sunbiz with the correct spelling. There are no Jergers listed as agent,officer, or director for this business but there are
Raymond Blacklidge 100.00
Steve Beaty 500.00

who also made individual contributions to Sen King

and the address appears to be the same location as the other donation I posted,
Can anyone from the area, or someone with time to check mapquest verify if this is the same location
399 posted on 05/10/2004 2:05:58 PM PDT by tutstar ( <{{--->< http://ripe4change.4-all.org)
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To: William Terrell
"That's why we have jury trials."

You should know by NOW THAT TERRI HASN'T HAD EVEN ONE JURY TRIAL. SHE HAS RETAINED RIGHTS BUT THEY'VE BEEN STEPPED ON OVER AND OVER AND OVER. There's absolutely no excuse for the way her guardianship file has been handled, the way her rehab money more than likely went up somebody's nose.

Life isn't fair but it SHOULD BE JUST. Terri deserves JUSTICE and she's had NO JURY TRIALS. Even Governor Bush isn't afforded the rights of a Defendant in Schiavo v. Bush, Judge W. Douglas Baird presiding. JUDGE BAIRD IS NO JURY, HE'S ANOTHER JUDGE who's had every Sam Seltzer Steak that he's ever ordered but STARVING SOMEONE because Judge Greer doesn't want anyone to ruin the "Terri FORCED EXIT PLAN" is JUST WRONG, ILLEGAL, A SIN AND IMMORAL.

Get your Living Will but when you say "poor Terri", that's Felos-speak. If you live in Dunedin, Florida, I have no doubts that you are a neighbor or friend of HINO's attorney.

If you went to him for your Living Will, God help you. The man should be disbarred in my opinion. There are better and other Estate Law attorneys in this major metropolitan area.

And finally, "nearing 60" is nothing to be afraid of. If you held strong religious beliefs, you'd have no fear, you'd have FAITH.

400 posted on 05/10/2004 2:10:20 PM PDT by floriduh voter (If You are a Troll, You Are Only Hurting Yourself. www.conservative-spirit.org (FV))
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