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Evidence Suggests Larger Conspiracy in Okla. Bombing (Audio-Follow Link)
NPR ^ | Goodwyn | Wade

Posted on 05/07/2004 4:10:37 PM PDT by TigerTale

NPR's Wade Goodwyn reports on evidence there were more conspirators involved in the bombing of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City. Nichols is on trial in McAlester, Okla., on state charges stemming from the largest act of domestic terrorism in U.S. history.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events; US: Arkansas; US: Kansas; US: Oklahoma
KEYWORDS: bombing; okcbombing; oklahomacity; timothymcveigh
This is a riviting report about the liklihood that there were others involved in the Oklahoma City bombing (and not just John Doe #2.)

It is worth noting that, in this case, the existance of a conspiracy is not disputed--it is established fact. The question is, how far did the conspiracy extend? Did it stop with Nichols and McVeigh, or were there others involved? This is an exercise, not in conspiracy theory, but in conspiracy analysis.

Anyone with any interest in, or connection to, the OKC bombing should listen to Goodwyn's excellent report.

Follow the source URL link for the NPR page, where you can get the story in the Real Audio and Windows Media formats. The reports link, above, is WMF only.

1 posted on 05/07/2004 4:10:37 PM PDT by TigerTale
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To: TigerTale
NPR? Never heard of 'em.
2 posted on 05/07/2004 4:14:04 PM PDT by NeonKnight
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To: TigerTale
This has been known ever since it happened. The question is, will the usual suspects let the whole story come out? I doubt it.

For whatever reason, Bush has covered for clinton on every possible occasion. The FBI, the ATF, and the CIA were up to their necks in this, and it's inconceivable that they will ever let the cat out of the bag.

I agree, it's gratifying when a little of it manages to make its way into the news.
3 posted on 05/07/2004 4:17:06 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: NeonKnight
NPR? Never heard of 'em.

If you have any interest in the topic, I recommend witholding judgement until you listen to the report, regardless of the source. The segment is extremely well-done.

4 posted on 05/07/2004 4:17:12 PM PDT by TigerTale (From the streets of Tehran to the Gulf of Oman, let freedom ring.)
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To: Cicero
I agree, it's gratifying when a little of it manages to make its way into the news.

I admit, I have not made study of the matter, so perhaps I found this treatment more compelling than would others. I had never heard of the Aryan National Army (I think that's right--hard to remember without a transcript.) I was blown away to learn the FBI has 20 prints from the Dreamland motel in Junction City--prints they have never run. And they admitted as much in open court. Wow.

5 posted on 05/07/2004 4:20:47 PM PDT by TigerTale (From the streets of Tehran to the Gulf of Oman, let freedom ring.)
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To: TigerTale
Good audio. You can listen and still surf the web if you use IE.
6 posted on 05/07/2004 4:22:38 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic (Re-elect Dubya)
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To: Cicero
I agree, it's gratifying when a little of it manages to make its way into the news.

Apparently, some of the victims and family members think Nichols' lawyers may blow this open during his second trial, in an attempt to deflect blame from their client.

7 posted on 05/07/2004 4:24:45 PM PDT by TigerTale (From the streets of Tehran to the Gulf of Oman, let freedom ring.)
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To: TigerTale
Thanks for the link. I AM interested.

ML/NJ

8 posted on 05/07/2004 4:25:19 PM PDT by ml/nj
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To: afraidfortherepublic
Good audio. You can listen and still surf the web if you use IE.

Yeah. I used to be a Real Audio man, but I almost always use Windows Media Player, these days.

9 posted on 05/07/2004 4:26:01 PM PDT by TigerTale (From the streets of Tehran to the Gulf of Oman, let freedom ring.)
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To: TigerTale
NPR is the only outlet I saw, a few weeks ago, that covered the Secret Service memo regarding the video tape.

They deserve applause.
10 posted on 05/07/2004 4:26:41 PM PDT by Shermy
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To: TigerTale
Sorry. That last response was supposed to be the this part of your post:

The FBI, the ATF, and the CIA were up to their necks in this, and it's inconceivable that they will ever let the cat out of the bag.

11 posted on 05/07/2004 4:27:01 PM PDT by TigerTale (From the streets of Tehran to the Gulf of Oman, let freedom ring.)
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To: afraidfortherepublic
I was glad that Terry wasn't fried so we could maybe get to some truth to the OKC bombing. GORELICK was giving the orders at the time.
12 posted on 05/07/2004 4:27:08 PM PDT by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: ml/nj
Thanks for the link. I AM interested.

No problem. I live in Overland Park, which is mentioned in the story, and I am originally form McPherson, where some of the fertilizer for the bomb was purchased. So this story hits close to home.

13 posted on 05/07/2004 4:29:10 PM PDT by TigerTale (From the streets of Tehran to the Gulf of Oman, let freedom ring.)
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To: Shermy
NPR is the only outlet I saw, a few weeks ago, that covered the Secret Service memo regarding the video tape.

I find it difficult to dismiss the entire organization for its editorial bent. I just like to be aware of the spin.

Just wish NPR didn't pay for its spin with my tax money. :)

14 posted on 05/07/2004 4:32:22 PM PDT by TigerTale (From the streets of Tehran to the Gulf of Oman, let freedom ring.)
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To: Sacajaweau
I was glad that Terry wasn't fried so we could maybe get to some truth to the OKC bombing.

Yes. If it weren't for the current trial, all of this might just stay buried.

There is the professor who is coming out with a book highlighting McVeigh's possible connections with the ARA, but the trial makes it more likely someone will pay attention.

15 posted on 05/07/2004 4:35:13 PM PDT by TigerTale (From the streets of Tehran to the Gulf of Oman, let freedom ring.)
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To: TigerTale
Aryan National Army

Aryan Republican Army. Sorry.

16 posted on 05/07/2004 4:36:13 PM PDT by TigerTale (From the streets of Tehran to the Gulf of Oman, let freedom ring.)
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To: TigerTale
I lost a lot of gadgets on this computer last week when I was hit by a virus that I was trying to clean up. I may not even have Real Audio anymore. My computer is still not back to normal, and I may have to reinstall everything. :(
17 posted on 05/07/2004 4:37:29 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic (Re-elect Dubya)
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To: afraidfortherepublic
Found this in a government paper on the OKC bombing.

And Democratic representative Charles Schumer urged Republican leaders to delay plans to vote on a repeal of the assault weapons ban in light of the Oklahoma tragedy.

"It would send the wrong message to paramilitary extremists on one side and ordinary people on the other," Schumer said in a letter to Dole & House Speaker Gingrich.

Why didn't he use the term "terrorists" rather than limiting it??

18 posted on 05/07/2004 4:44:48 PM PDT by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: afraidfortherepublic
I lost a lot of gadgets on this computer last week when I was hit by a virus that I was trying to clean up. I may not even have Real Audio anymore. My computer is still not back to normal, and I may have to reinstall everything.

It won't help now, but in the future? When you get it restored, clone the drive to a spare HD. All the HD makers I'm familiar with offer free software that includes some sort of drive copy feature. The spare naturally has to be big enough to hold all your data, but that said, this is the fastest way to recover from disaster. I clone mine routinely.

19 posted on 05/07/2004 4:45:06 PM PDT by backhoe
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To: TigerTale
Well, I'm listening to the NPR report.

And maybe there is a good reason to be suspicious of NPR.

Jayna Davis has just had a book published, and some time ago she conducted a rather amazing public presentation to Sen. Arlen Specter which you can listen to here. Davis establishes an Iraqi connection in her work.

The report you linked seems very suspicious to me. Why is the Jayna Davis book, published last month, not even mentioned? My guess is that this NPR report is a backfire of sorts to deflect attention away from an Iraqi connection. This may solely be due to the political consideration that establishment of an Iraqi connection would help President Bush, but there may be other nefarious reasons. I cannot think of any good reason for for not mentioning Jayna Davis at all in a 12 minute news segment except that this report is disinformation.

ML/NJ

20 posted on 05/07/2004 4:46:26 PM PDT by ml/nj
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To: TigerTale
Duh! This has been clear from the outset! The FBI was expert in infiltrating militias and white/black power groups. They had at least one agent/contact in the group and knew when the bomb would go off. Something happened (I believe that the FBI showboats from Washington were late - it was Willie's administration, after all) and the blast was not stopped.

The ATF weapons stash was not built into the equation and, instead a some good pictures of a destroyed truck, the whole building went up. From there on it was pure cover up. McVeigh kept his mouth shut out of loyalty to guys he didn't know were informing on him and the FBI hustled him to kingdom come. I've always maintained that the Dallas AIC (now retired) has boxes full of CYA documents that would show the whole truth. It does demonstrate how easy it is to use a federal investigation to cover a conspiracy.

21 posted on 05/07/2004 4:47:23 PM PDT by Tacis
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To: TigerTale
Michelle Malkin has been talking about this since it happened.

Check these links

22 posted on 05/07/2004 4:48:57 PM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (We are at war with an enemy which is trying to kill us. The RATs have sided with the enemy.)
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To: ml/nj
I cannot think of any good reason for for not mentioning Jayna Davis at all in a 12 minute news segment except that this report is disinformation.

Well, I can't comment on the Davis book, as I am not familiar with it. I might want to read it when it comes out--I am open to the possibility of Middle East connection.

To date, however, the only evidence I know of which supports such a connection is John Doe #2's reportedly dark complexion. This would not seem to fit the white-supremecist profile. But it would fit in with the idea of Islamists and white supremecists working together. So the NPR report does not have to be disinfo. It might just be incomplete.

23 posted on 05/07/2004 4:56:39 PM PDT by TigerTale (From the streets of Tehran to the Gulf of Oman, let freedom ring.)
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To: ROCKLOBSTER
Michelle Malkin has been talking about this since it happened.

Thanks for the links. I believe I knew Malkin had written some about OKC. Perhaps I was not aware of the extent of her coverage.

24 posted on 05/07/2004 4:57:40 PM PDT by TigerTale (From the streets of Tehran to the Gulf of Oman, let freedom ring.)
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To: Tacis
The ATF weapons stash was not built into the equation

I had not thought of this. Shouldn't there be records somewhere regarding how much of an arsenal was stored in the Murrah Building?

25 posted on 05/07/2004 4:58:39 PM PDT by TigerTale (From the streets of Tehran to the Gulf of Oman, let freedom ring.)
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To: TigerTale; All
Here's the old bump list:

OKCbombing:

To find all articles tagged or indexed using OKCbombing, click below:
  click here >>> OKCbombing <<< click here  
(To view all FR Bump Lists, click here)

26 posted on 05/07/2004 5:02:15 PM PDT by backhoe
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To: TigerTale
I had NPR on for the first time in 5 years today (coverage of the hearings) and later heard the OKC report.

It was amazing; makes me believe many people knew about it. They didn't even talk about Iraqi intellegence at Eloheim City.
27 posted on 05/07/2004 5:08:45 PM PDT by Finalapproach29er (" Permitting homosexuality didn't work out very well for the Roman Empire")
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To: Finalapproach29er
They didn't even talk about Iraqi intellegence at Eloheim City.

I'm not familiar with this connection. Do you have more information on this?

28 posted on 05/07/2004 5:10:19 PM PDT by TigerTale (From the streets of Tehran to the Gulf of Oman, let freedom ring.)
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To: backhoe
Thanks. Looks like you, or someone added the keyword to this thread as well. I appreciate it.
29 posted on 05/07/2004 5:11:08 PM PDT by TigerTale (From the streets of Tehran to the Gulf of Oman, let freedom ring.)
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To: TigerTale
I can't claim the credit for that-- a tip o' the hat to an Unknown Freeper...
30 posted on 05/07/2004 5:23:44 PM PDT by backhoe
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To: TigerTale
I still believe that the truth about OKC is being held back by W and others as a "nuclear deterrent" against the Clintons trying to get back into power. Hillary can keep her little Senate seat but if she tries to go higher they will slap her down with this.
31 posted on 05/07/2004 5:38:33 PM PDT by ikka
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To: All
Don't rule out Saddam or radical Islam. The white supremacist organizations are united to radicals of all stripes by hatred of Jews and America. Dennis Mahon (Elohim City) "admits to being closely associated with the Aryan Republican Army bank robbers and to admiring the IRA terrorists. He boasts of his connections to Saddam Hussein’s intelligence service and admits to having been in its pay, beginning during the Persian Gulf War, when he organized several rallies for Iraq." From an Internet source, not Insight mag.

www.insightmag.com/news/2001/11/19/National/Iraq-Connections.To.U.Extremists-135660.shtml

"Iraq Connections to U.S. Extremists," Oct. 26, 2001 by Kelly Patricia O Meara

"This fits with the Oklahoma City defense team's conclusions concerning Dennis Mahon, long suspected of being a player in the conspiracy to bomb the Murrah building. Mahon is described in Jones' book as 'a virulent racist and avowed enemy of the U.S. government' and is a high-ranking member of the White Aryan Resistance (WAR) movement. The defense team reports that its investigation shows 'the Iraqi government has given Dennis Mahon thousands of dollars over the past six years, and Mahon has been banned from entering Canada and the United Kingdom and is classified by Interpol as an international terrorist.' The FBI did not bother to interview Mahon in connection to the Oklahoma City bombing."

32 posted on 05/07/2004 5:54:29 PM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (Benedict Arnold was a hero for both sides in the same war, too!)
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To: TigerTale
the Davis book ... I might want to read it when it comes out--

The Davis book is out. If you are as interested in the Oklahoma City Bombing as you suggest you probably would have clicked on the links in the message to which you replied, and known this.


I am open to the possibility of Middle East connection. ... To date, however, the only evidence I know of which supports such a connection is John Doe #2's reportedly dark complexion.

Listen to the presentation to Specter, and then reply. Otherwise you do so from ignorance.

ML/NJ

33 posted on 05/07/2004 6:32:00 PM PDT by ml/nj
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To: ml/nj
If you are as interested in the Oklahoma City Bombing as you suggest you probably would have clicked on the links in the message to which you replied, and known this.

Wow. That's a rather snide reply to a perfectly congenial post. I didn't realize my level of interest was under examination.

Listen to the presentation to Specter, and then reply. Otherwise you do so from ignorance.

I have already admitted my ignorance of the subject on this thread--once in the very post to which you replied. I certainly don't know enough about the topic to debate it--and starting a debate was not my intention. I merely responded to your post with my first thoughts upon reading it--surely a legitimate contribution to the discussion.

I appreciate and value your perspective, but I don't see the purpose in upbraiding those who are not as informed as yourself, or whose level of interest does not rise to your own.

I'm looking for a pleasant exchange of ideas and information. Perhaps your interests differ. Either way, I hope this thread provides each of us with a constructive opportunity to pursue our objectives.

34 posted on 05/07/2004 7:52:18 PM PDT by TigerTale (From the streets of Tehran to the Gulf of Oman, let freedom ring.)
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To: ikka
I still believe that the truth about OKC is being held back by W and others as a "nuclear deterrent" against the Clintons trying to get back into power.

Under any circumstances, this would be unjust. If there really is a Middle East connection, it would also be short-sighted and irresponsible.

I wouldn't be surprised to find the cause is mere bureaucratic inertia and CYA crap. But it could also be that the Bush administration sees opening up a "solved case" as damaging to the Presidency as a whole. Republican and Democratic administrations have been known to cover for one another, to protect the institution of the Presidency, and to preserve their own perogatives.

That doesn't make it right.

35 posted on 05/07/2004 8:01:20 PM PDT by TigerTale (From the streets of Tehran to the Gulf of Oman, let freedom ring.)
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To: TigerTale
Maybe it will come out. We can always hope.

The Oklahoman had a lot of good stuff on this in the early months. And Ambrose Evans-Pritchard's book connected most of the dots at an early stage.

I must admit that I'm surprised the judge is allowing this evidence to be admitted in open court. It's more than what happened in the earlier trials.
36 posted on 05/07/2004 8:47:39 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: TigerTale
Wow. That's a rather snide reply to a perfectly congenial post.

A pretty interesting response from someone engaged in a discussion who pays no attention to what the other person has said!

ML/NJ

37 posted on 05/08/2004 5:14:04 AM PDT by ml/nj
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To: ml/nj
A pretty interesting response from someone engaged in a discussion who pays no attention to what the other person has said!

As I indicated, I posted my immediate reaction--no criticism of you or your position was intended.

Upon reviewing your post, I see that I misread the part about the book's publication--you indicated it came out last month. I apologize if my use of the future tense annoyed you.

38 posted on 05/08/2004 6:08:02 AM PDT by TigerTale (From the streets of Tehran to the Gulf of Oman, let freedom ring.)
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