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Did the Arab "Street" Geta Message We Didn't Mean to Send?
self | 5/7/04 | LS

Posted on 05/07/2004 6:31:42 PM PDT by LS

Amidst all the apologies, I want to suggest we all (Hillary Clinton here) take a deep breath and consider something that no one in the administration or Congress has (publicly) considered:

The POW photos are having an unintended effect on the Arab "Street" and the "resistance."

By now, everyone pretty well knows that Arab societies base everything on power and perceptions of power. In part, that is why so many Freepers and conservatives got their panties in a bunch because it appeared in public like "apologizing" was a sign of weakness.

Ah, my friends. You aren't thinking like an Arab. The "street" and, indeed, the leadership doesn't trust much of what we say---they only look at what we do. It would have made no difference if Bush formally apologized and sent each detainee a bouquet of flowers---the "street" would see that as a sham, a pretense, a distraction from the "real" policy.

No, I suggest something else. That the Arab "street" and especially the "resistance" has taken from those photos a message we didn't intend to send, but one that strikes fear into the very heart of them---a message of pure power and dominance. The submissive positions of these "tough" Iraqi men under the heels and attached to the leashes of WOMEN (and relatively small women, at that) sends a very powerful message to the "street."

Don't screw with the Americans. Oh, they'll "apologize," be we know that when the hearings are over, and the attention is off, they can do what they want.

I want to reiterate: this is foreign to our way of thinking. Unless you're a hard-core Democrat, you don't pathologically lie to achieve your objectives. But we must start thinking like the enemy.

Has anyone noticed that we virtually walked into Najaf this week, unopposed? Al-Sadr did nothing. Has anyone noticed that Fallujah is quiet? Very few roadside bombs/suicide bombs in the last couple of days. This could all change, but it is eerie that when a message of power is sent out all over the Middle East---unintentionally on our part---it resonates. Big time.


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: bush; democrats; iraq; iraqipow; pows; rumsfeld; waronterror
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1 posted on 05/07/2004 6:31:43 PM PDT by LS
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To: LS
Very interesting take!! You may be on to something... hmmm...
2 posted on 05/07/2004 6:33:48 PM PDT by Eala (Sacrificing tagline fame for... TRAD ANGLICAN RESOURCE PAGE: http://eala.freeservers.com/anglican)
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To: LS
Uday and Qusay are ed-day.
3 posted on 05/07/2004 6:34:11 PM PDT by annyokie (There are two sides to every argument, but I'm too busy to listen to yours.)
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To: Ragtime Cowgirl
"For your ping list" ping...
4 posted on 05/07/2004 6:35:58 PM PDT by Eala (Sacrificing tagline fame for... TRAD ANGLICAN RESOURCE PAGE: http://eala.freeservers.com/anglican)
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To: LS
I think your point has merit. Time and events will prove your point one way or the other.


One thing I've learned is that what appears to be a major problem ends up not being one.
5 posted on 05/07/2004 6:36:34 PM PDT by Loyal Buckeye ((Kerry is a flake))
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To: LS
What makes you think it is necessarily unintended? Even if the whole thing wasn't planned, we do have people whose sole job is to look for, and exploit, situations like this.
6 posted on 05/07/2004 6:37:52 PM PDT by antiantiamericans
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: LS
It's like judo. You turn your weaknesses into strength. The scandal is a weakness, and we turn it into a strength. Right now, every would-be terrorist is going to have horrible nightmares of sexual torture before they light off their next bomb.

That said, this sexual torture crap is too risky and dangerous to rely on as policy. That's why the people responsible need to have their asses nailed to the wall, no matter what. That's also why it's right to apologize and to put into place policies to make sure this never happens again. Getting gays out of the military is a good start. The next step is to reassign women out of combat roles, and not reassign new women into them.
8 posted on 05/07/2004 6:39:24 PM PDT by rogueleader
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To: LS
Or the quiet in Falujah could be because we put Iraqis back in charge and the quiet in Najaf could be because the tribes and the Shiite elders demanded Sadr get out? Just want to present an alternate universe here!
9 posted on 05/07/2004 6:39:24 PM PDT by Arkie2
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To: LS
I agree with you. I hope that this will work in our favor in the end. What I worry about now is that this hearing today will turn into the Church commission (don't think there won't be a commission out of this) and that there will be handcuffs put on our military and investigative forces like they did to the CIA....make them impotent to be able to conduct the business of interrogating prisoners and getting the needed info to protect our troops during war. I hope I am wrong. But I have this sinking feeling we may never ever be able to wage war and win with the partisanship we have in this country and in the media. Pray I am wrong.
10 posted on 05/07/2004 6:39:32 PM PDT by arbee4bush
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To: LS
Good post and something to ponder.
11 posted on 05/07/2004 6:39:59 PM PDT by BlueAngel
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To: LS
Excellent point. Also note this: the prisoners chose to submit to this humiliation. They could have defied us and chosen their 72 virgins. How strong is their faith? I believe that the Japanese were much more devoted to their faith than the Islamics. God willing, I do not expect to see as many suicide bombers as there were kamakazis back during WWII. Right or wrong, some of the guards called their bluff, and we can learn from that.
12 posted on 05/07/2004 6:40:19 PM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (Backhoe's Gorelick links: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1117579/posts)
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To: LS
What great insight into this!!
13 posted on 05/07/2004 6:41:30 PM PDT by feedback doctor (Freedom, God's gift to man, Clinton the devil's gift)
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To: LS
The apologies were strictly for North American and European consumption.
14 posted on 05/07/2004 6:41:32 PM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: arbee4bush
"What I worry about now is that this hearing today will turn into the Church commission..."

There will be that attempt. It will be a battle royale. A political food fight, and in the end, I believe those who place America first will win out, God willing.

FReegards....
15 posted on 05/07/2004 6:43:13 PM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (Backhoe's Gorelick links: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1117579/posts)
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To: LS
You know? You may be on to something. We know we're dealing with cowards. Perhaps alSadr crapped his kaftan when he saw those photos and pictured himself naked... barking like a dog with a chain on his neck... at the end of a leash held by a 90 pound woman sucking on a Pall Mall.

Hmmmm... there could be something there. Thought-provoking.
16 posted on 05/07/2004 6:43:45 PM PDT by get'emall (Kofi Annan: The Lawn Jockey at the Intersection of Corruption and Lies)
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To: rogueleader
every would-be terrorist is going to have horrible nightmares of sexual torture

Sexual torture? I don't know, but it seems possible that that nightmare ends with end of the torture. This is sexual humiliation -- and in that culture maybe more than elsewhere, that is forever. (At least until you respond to one of those spam e-mails... *\;-)

17 posted on 05/07/2004 6:43:53 PM PDT by Eala (Sacrificing tagline fame for... TRAD ANGLICAN RESOURCE PAGE: http://eala.freeservers.com/anglican)
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

To: LS
These images would not have gotten the same amount of attention had we (the West) not made a big stink about them.

I venture to suggest that the current inmates of Abu Gharaib are the best treated in the history of the prison.

19 posted on 05/07/2004 6:44:37 PM PDT by Bosco (Remember how you felt on September 11?)
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To: LS
Ms England might really be a heroine? You never know. Events often play out in unusual ways.
20 posted on 05/07/2004 6:45:28 PM PDT by tertiary01 (DEMS- the other surrender monkeys.)
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To: fhayek
#1 This is war, not paint-ball. You do what it takes to win. If humiliation is an effective tool to interrogate prisoners, than so be it.

Damn straight. Can you imagine us apologizing and offering cash reparations to jailed lower-level Nazi crimminals during WW2 for "humiliating" them? The American people would've been horrified by such a suggestion. .....but back then we were made of much sterner stuff.

21 posted on 05/07/2004 6:45:52 PM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: LS
Ah, an insightful post, with many thoughtful comments.
22 posted on 05/07/2004 6:46:01 PM PDT by findingtruth
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To: LS
Interesting take LS, if it were the case, we could have peppered the Arab streets months ago with Photoshop bombs. Then again, who knows that the psych ops folks are doing?
23 posted on 05/07/2004 6:46:35 PM PDT by bwteim (Begin With The End In Mind)
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To: LS
What if secretly that was the message we meant to send?
24 posted on 05/07/2004 6:47:45 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: LS
This is entirely true. The Muslims need to know if they slaughter Americans they will end up led around on a leash by a girl.
25 posted on 05/07/2004 6:49:13 PM PDT by Ukiapah Heep (Shoes for Industry!)
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To: LS
I think you're correct;in spades.

The only that would have made those pictures even worse,to the "Arab Street",would have been if these pictures also showed women rubbing bacon all over those "brave" soldiers for Allah.

26 posted on 05/07/2004 6:50:22 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: get'emall
Perhaps alSadr crapped his kaftan when he saw those photos and pictured himself naked... barking like a dog with a chain on his neck... at the end of a leash held by a 90 pound woman sucking on a Pall Mall.

Imagine what some of those Arab women who get beaten if they let their burkas slip and reveal a little bit of their face are feeling when they see a tiny American woman leading one of their abusers around on a leash. Psychologicaly this has to be jolting.

27 posted on 05/07/2004 6:50:59 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: LS
Brilliant analysis. Should be passed on to Conservative friendly newspapers (Washington Times, Orange Co., CA Register etc.).

Bob
28 posted on 05/07/2004 6:51:08 PM PDT by Signalman
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To: LS
I think Rush brought this up today.
29 posted on 05/07/2004 6:51:47 PM PDT by Musket
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To: LS
I still wish there were a few buckets of pig guts poured over the naked frat boys - would have sent a stronger message.

(Just joking - but we should have a policy of burying suicide bombers in latrines covered in pig guts - that might send a message.)

30 posted on 05/07/2004 6:52:43 PM PDT by 11th_VA (Freedom is not free)
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To: LS
The Muslim Street. The Muslim street had better get the message if they haven't already gotten it. I agree I think they have.

Next item on the agenda: Hand over Bin Laden al Zawhari and Mullah Omer's heads.

Next item: Re-elect Dubya and keep Rumsie and Rice right where they are.

31 posted on 05/07/2004 6:53:10 PM PDT by eleni121 (Preempt and Prevent---then Destroy)
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To: Eala
Sexual Torture ??

This doesn't involve sending Hillary Clinton and Rosie O'Donnell to Iraq does it ??

That sounds too cruel, even for me to devise LOL
32 posted on 05/07/2004 6:54:13 PM PDT by RightWingNut
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To: Ukiapah Heep
There was the article a couple days ago about the angry mullah because some petite muslim female comedian lifted him up. If I was making MTV videos, I think I'd be seeing a good theme...... sheikhs on leashes --- but I think I'd have their robes left on them.
33 posted on 05/07/2004 6:54:40 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: Bosco
"I venture to suggest that the current inmates of Abu Gharaib are the best treated in the history of the prison."

Yeah....the previous inmates, under Saddam, are dead.

34 posted on 05/07/2004 6:54:52 PM PDT by goodnesswins (Tagging you.....)
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To: LS
So...what you are saying is that instead of sending them to the 72 virgins,we are going to relegate them to a lifetime of shame?
35 posted on 05/07/2004 6:55:02 PM PDT by tapatio
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To: LS
"Unless you're a hard-core Democrat, you don't pathologically lie to achieve your objectives. But we must start thinking like the enemy."

If that's the case, then we must decry the Left's attack upon fetishism as an attack against the very font of multiculturalism. You'd figure someone as liberal as Kerry would be the first one to stand up and speak out on behalf of Leather Lovers, Pain Mistresses, and every Sub/Dom in the military.

lol. Personally I think there's a few bad apples in every barrel. Prosecute them and move on.

36 posted on 05/07/2004 6:55:28 PM PDT by Darheel (Visit the strange and wonderful.)
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To: Eala
I don't know if this sexual harassment will do the job. Personally I would like us to locate this piss-ant called Al-Sadr and the mosque he is located in. Once located we drop a MOAB (Muslims & Other Arab Bastards) bomb. I figure a few of these, probably less than 10-20 would shut the Arab-Muslim's up.

For added affect I suggest that someone send a anonymous package to CAIR with the following item. Of that item I am not meaning a bomb or anything lethal, just fun. At last I heard that the office of CAIR was in DC. It would be a device that would sound like an old fashion air-raid Klaxon, set off by any US Military Aircraft. Then I would order 24 hour random fly-overs. CAIR is a Islamist terrorist group that was founded by terrorists, have supported terrorists and should be spit on by every TRUE American reporter they whine to.

SledgeCS

37 posted on 05/07/2004 6:57:07 PM PDT by SledgeCS (If you call me a European-American, get ready for a fight over that INSULT...)
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To: LS
Well, they are certainly dancing in the liberal streets. Just like the Arab streets, except no liberal ever likes America.
38 posted on 05/07/2004 6:58:45 PM PDT by Bernard
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To: FITZ
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1126307/posts
Mullah furious after defamatory stunt
Nettavisen ^ | 28.04.04 | Av Carin Pettersson og Kjetil Mæland
Posted on 04/28/2004 8:53:32 PM EDT by aculeus
39 posted on 05/07/2004 6:58:47 PM PDT by bwteim (Begin With The End In Mind)
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To: LS
Makes sense to me. I know several Muslim men that treat their wives like a piece of property.
40 posted on 05/07/2004 7:01:22 PM PDT by new cruelty
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To: RightWingNut
Where's the picture of Hillary in the dominatrix outfit?
41 posted on 05/07/2004 7:01:41 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: FITZ
NOT THAT!
42 posted on 05/07/2004 7:02:31 PM PDT by CWOJackson
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To: bwteim
Thanks for putting that link --- that was the funniest thing --- as a Muslim woman would understand you don't even need to put panties over their heads --- just lift them up by your arms. That gets them spitting mad.
43 posted on 05/07/2004 7:03:35 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: fhayek
Yeah, you nailed it. This stuff is so lame compared to other wars. I actually thought the pictures were a bit comical. As the poster states, the pictures may have made a very large point to a culture which treats it's women like crap. And guess what? NO ONE GOT HURT! Seeing a human being jump from a burning sky scraper; now that's NOT funny. And guess what? That person died and not one Arab or Muslim leader was asked to apologize, nor did any apologize. In fact, those societies cheered at what happened on 911. I say screw 'em, and I say screw the libs who are demanding this non-stop apology.

A long while ago I worked with a guy who fought in the Phillipines after we went back and retook the Islands in WWII. The things he told me that our soldiers did to the Japanese soldiers would make you sick. They didn't do them for the fun of it; they were extracting information that ultimately saved US lives. I have no doubt we did the same thing in Europe. The Geneva convention was violated by us when necessary, and because we won, we wrote the history.

That's why it is called War, it's horrifying by it's nature. I believe the Union General Sherman said something to the effect that "It is good that war is so terrible, else we would grow too fond of it." You want to talk about a guy who "humiliated" and "abused" the enemy? Hell, those Muslims in those photos were in that prison for a reason. Sherman took the battle to non-combatants; women, children, young and old alike. He burned their citys and crops, destroyed every shred of wealth in his path, and made their lives a living hell. Southerners still hate him to this day. And do you know what? It was Sherman and his tactics that won the war for the Union. Had he not taken and destroyed Atlanta, the John Kerry of his day, George McClellan, would have won the election of 1864.

And what of John Kerry? What did he do in the war? By his own admission. Hmmmmmmmm?

44 posted on 05/07/2004 7:04:43 PM PDT by yooper (If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there......)
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To: CWOJackson
That could be our ultimate weapon.
45 posted on 05/07/2004 7:05:05 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: LS
[ Has anyone noticed that we virtually walked into Najaf this week, unopposed? Al-Sadr did nothing. Has anyone noticed that Fallujah is quiet? Very few roadside bombs/suicide bombs in the last couple of days. This could all change, but it is eerie that when a message of power is sent out all over the Middle East-]

I noticed.. but thats only because "the Great Satan" runs both the Democrat Party and Islam.. and hes waiting to see what evil the democrats can do on their own.

46 posted on 05/07/2004 7:05:47 PM PDT by hosepipe
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To: FITZ; aculeus
Thank aculeus!
47 posted on 05/07/2004 7:07:07 PM PDT by bwteim (Begin With The End In Mind)
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To: LS
Glad you posted this. I posted on another thread that: "That I don't condone what happened there but it might make our military more respected by our enemies. They might not want to fall into our hands now!"
48 posted on 05/07/2004 7:07:12 PM PDT by TheLion
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To: CWOJackson
[sarcasm on ]
Perhaps it was just a secret plot to get obscene pictures past the Saudi sensors... [/sarcasm off ]
49 posted on 05/07/2004 7:07:15 PM PDT by Pikachu_Dad
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To: LS
Bingo. The photo of the dirty iraqi with the dog collar has already saved a bunch American lives.
50 posted on 05/07/2004 7:08:47 PM PDT by jimbo123
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