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28 federal managers found to have fake college degrees
The Charlotte Observer ^ | May 12, 2004 | staff

Posted on 05/12/2004 4:28:40 PM PDT by TaxRelief

At least 28 senior-level federal employees in eight agencies have bogus college degrees, including three managers at the office that oversees nuclear weapons safety, congressional investigators have found.The problem is likely even bigger, mainly because the government has no uniform way to check whether employees' alma maters are diploma mills that require little, if any, academic work, the General Accounting Office reported. The names of the 28 senior-level workers have been forwarded to the offices of the inspectors general in their agencies for review. -- ASSOCIATED PRESS

(Excerpt) Read more at charlotte.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; Government; US: District of Columbia
KEYWORDS: cheaters; corruptmedia; diplomamills; fakedegrees; turass
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I want names.
1 posted on 05/12/2004 4:28:41 PM PDT by TaxRelief
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To: TaxRelief
Me too.
2 posted on 05/12/2004 4:33:02 PM PDT by texasflower (in the event of the rapture.......the Bush White House will be unmanned)
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To: TaxRelief
Next question...how are they performing?

Is this a problem with the managers, or the certifications?
3 posted on 05/12/2004 4:33:10 PM PDT by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: TaxRelief
I have never understood 'padding' a resumé. I habitually understate mine. I cannot imagine a greater personal and professional embarrassment than to state that you can do something, and be expected to deliver, when you cannot. I don't want to have to live a lie.
4 posted on 05/12/2004 4:36:30 PM PDT by Riley
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To: TaxRelief
How does one get a fake degree?
5 posted on 05/12/2004 4:37:34 PM PDT by GottaLuvAkitas1
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To: Riley
You'd sure make a lousey democrat. :)
6 posted on 05/12/2004 4:38:13 PM PDT by monkeywrench
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To: TaxRelief
If a degree is a requirement of the position, why is anything short of dismissal acceptable?

Let's start with fraud...

7 posted on 05/12/2004 4:39:13 PM PDT by Publius6961 (I don't do diplomacy either.)
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Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

To: TaxRelief
Given the many years that I've been a federal contractor, you can be sure that there are quite a few more with fake intellects, too. LMAO


9 posted on 05/12/2004 4:42:18 PM PDT by Viking2002 (Liberals are dictatorial social terrorists, and should be treated as such........no mercy!!!)
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To: monkeywrench
Thank you, you made my day.
10 posted on 05/12/2004 4:43:21 PM PDT by Riley
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To: TaxRelief
Only 28 out of thousands? That's pretty good. How many are out there in state and local governments with fake degrees?

With Islamic terrorists murdering Americans in a gruesome way because we supposedly humiliated a few of them, this is at the bottom of my list of problems that have to be solved anytime in the near future.

11 posted on 05/12/2004 4:43:39 PM PDT by rllngrk33 (Liberals are guilty of everything they accuse Conservatives of.)
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To: TaxRelief
Well, technically an Ed. D. is an actual degree. But only technically.
12 posted on 05/12/2004 4:44:01 PM PDT by AmishDude
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To: TaxRelief
This article comes from the Associated Press via the Charlotte Observer. I can ABSOLUTELY GUARANTEE that there are people at both the AP and the Observer with fake degrees as well. Don't point out the speck in someone else's eye when there is a log in your own.
13 posted on 05/12/2004 4:47:06 PM PDT by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: Sawool
There are also fake accrediting organizations out there now.
14 posted on 05/12/2004 4:48:34 PM PDT by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: Riley
Having a college degree has nothing to do with whether you can "do something" or not. Many competent people lack college degrees and many people who have them, I wouldn't hire to shine my shoes.

15 posted on 05/12/2004 4:49:48 PM PDT by SamAdams76 (I don't own this gas-guzzling SUV - my wife does!)
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To: SamAdams76
I couldn't agree more.
16 posted on 05/12/2004 4:52:30 PM PDT by Riley
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To: SamAdams76
Many competent people lack college degrees and many people who have them, I wouldn't hire to shine my shoes.

Quite true, but claiming to have one gets a person consideration in hiring that the candidate does not deserve. It is the lie that is the issue here, as with illegal immigrants, these people's first action in their pursuit of a job is a lie.

17 posted on 05/12/2004 4:54:16 PM PDT by KC_for_Freedom (Sailing the highways of America, and loving it.)
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To: TaxRelief
I want names.

I want resignations, their backpay reimbursed to taxpayers, and indictments for fraud.

18 posted on 05/12/2004 4:54:33 PM PDT by Rockitz (After all these years, it's still rocket science.)
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To: TaxRelief
Admittedly, I did not go on to read the entire article. Twenty-eight? This has to be in the realm of multiples of thousands. I paid for my degrees, and while I didn't enjoy my undergraduate studies, I enjoyed my MBA while holding a full time job. I remember falling asleep for a fraction of a second at least twice while take a shower before going to work. This is how exhausted I was and would do it again at a drop of a hat.
19 posted on 05/12/2004 4:55:18 PM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: GottaLuvAkitas1
It is not 'fake' per se, just from a college that is not accredited. And hence their fallacious nature .....a degree from a 'college' that is not accredited implies that there is no way to know if the education was of any value, and more importantly if there was any education at all (since many just ask for money and send the person a degree). Sad really, if you ask me.
20 posted on 05/12/2004 5:03:12 PM PDT by spetznaz (Nuclear missiles: The ultimate Phallic symbol.)
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To: Riley
Back in the 80's, I would sometimes get hired via a 10 minute telephone interview. Once I asked the employer, "Don't you want to see my resume?" He told me, "If you can't do the job, we'll fire you."

Fair enough!

Later in life, I learned that when working for the government, they only cared about your "credentials", not your knowledge or ability. That was so nobody could blame them for hiring you.

21 posted on 05/12/2004 5:04:49 PM PDT by snopercod (I used to be disgusted. Then I became amused. Now I'm disgusted again.)
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To: SamAdams76
It appears the point of the article is fake diplomas. But then again, I didn't read the entire article.

Rush Limbaugh never went to college; and yet, he has more money than God to site one example.

22 posted on 05/12/2004 5:05:20 PM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
Karl Rove doesn't have a degree, or at least didn't when he first became Bush's political advisor. (Probably has a few honorary degrees by now). Yet he has a sharper mind and higher intellect than the overwhelming majority of college graduates. A degree doesn't mean too, too much.

However, I know a couple of folks working for large companies who hold decent jobs, managing people in support departments and all...but they are bitter because some promotion opportunites aren't available to them. A degree is required for higher level jobs even though they both know they are are up to the task. There are too many other people who are also qualified - so if for no other reason than to be able to "check the box", the degree does make a difference.

23 posted on 05/12/2004 5:18:31 PM PDT by Diverdogz
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To: TaxRelief
28 federal managers found to have fake college degrees

Idiots. Did it ever occur to them to try to get a real one like I did....

....through email?

24 posted on 05/12/2004 5:24:11 PM PDT by lowbridge ("You are an American. You are my brother. I would die for you." -Kurdish Sergeant)
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To: TaxRelief
It doesnt matter. There will be NO accountability.

They should be fired.

25 posted on 05/12/2004 5:24:12 PM PDT by Diogenesis (We do what we are meant to do)
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To: TaxRelief
The way the Postal Service handled this years ago was to just abolish all of the requirements for degrees in all of it's jobs (except the National Medical Director ~ he had to be a licensed physician).

Notice the gal over in Homeland Security ~ she didn't have any degrees, but claimed something like 3 of them. Earlier she was the "supervisor" with the White House contractors in charge of Bill Clinton's e-mail files. She and one of her gumbahs were called before Congress to testify.

As far as I can tell reading the record over and over, it looks like she and her friend misrepresented everything ("they lied").

I'm not sure how she got a regular civil service job, but she had been a contractor at the WH. Presumably Billzo and his buddies put her in a Schedule C job, and then she converted that into a regular job with the new administration in January 2001.

Her lead gumbah found a job at USPS. Although he was classified as a regular employee at the Eagan Minnesota Postal Data Center, he passed himself off as the Eastern Area director of IT (Information Technology) in Pittsburgh.

I would imagine he didn't have any degrees, but he didn't need any, and with the friends he had, his position with USPS is secure as long as Bob Otto is his boss. Bob, of course, has all of his training at the US Department of Agriculture Graduate School ~ might check out how they are accredited at http://www.grad.usda.gov/

One presumes this sort of nonsense is OK with Mr. Casey, who was appointed to the USPS Board of Governors by President Bush with the highest recommendation by various key Republicans in Congress. It's not likely you will ever see Casey complain about any of this.

26 posted on 05/12/2004 5:25:27 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: SamAdams76
The issue isn't whether a degree makes a person a better employee, it's whether a person who obtains the position fraudulently is a desirable employee.

It would be my contention that he or she is not.

27 posted on 05/12/2004 5:31:54 PM PDT by CharacterCounts
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To: KC_for_Freedom; SamAdams76
"Many competent people lack college degrees and many people who have them, I wouldn't hire to shine my shoes."

"It is the lie that is the issue here"


I agree with BOTH of you. I also find that in too many cases the degree requirement is nothing more than a culling device to cut the number of applicants for far too many positions, for which a degree is irrelevant or unnecessary.

It is also a leading cause of dilution of a 'hard' degree's value, as well as the proliferation of bastardized, watered-down, and hyphenated "degrees".
28 posted on 05/12/2004 5:34:33 PM PDT by ApplegateRanch (The world needs more horses, and fewer Jackasses!)
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To: TaxRelief
If these 28 managers get the boot they can always become Ordained Minsters.
29 posted on 05/12/2004 5:39:01 PM PDT by Rebelbase
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To: Rebelbase
ooopps..Ministers!
30 posted on 05/12/2004 5:39:24 PM PDT by Rebelbase
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To: CharacterCounts

"It more than just resume fraud.
You've got to be able to destroy evidence.
Now that WE have a copy of Gorelick's book "Destruction of Evidence"
we will NEVER NEVER be fired again.
"


31 posted on 05/12/2004 5:41:36 PM PDT by Diogenesis (We do what we are meant to do)
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To: SamAdams76
The issue is fraud, not ability.
32 posted on 05/12/2004 5:50:36 PM PDT by TaxRelief
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To: rllngrk33
Only 28 out of thousands?

We're talking "senior level" here. They should be fired and prosecuted for fraud.

God knows how many lower level bureaucrats are sporting these fictitious degrees.

33 posted on 05/12/2004 5:57:28 PM PDT by jackbill
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To: TaxRelief
This also means, of course, that these idiots are also liars. Would they also be mostly RATs? Inquiring minds want to know...
34 posted on 05/12/2004 5:59:08 PM PDT by Paulus Invictus (4)
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To: lepton
Next question...how are they performing?

I am sure that they are covering their asses and suckin down perks with great distinction.

35 posted on 05/12/2004 6:01:49 PM PDT by Stentor
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To: Viking2002
We purposely hired eight newly graduated, top-of-class MBA's just to get "their expertise." Two years later all were gone (fired) except one and he turned out to be average for business smarts and productivity. The old guys with years of experience and BA or BS degrees did much better than the "educated MBAs". Go figure!
36 posted on 05/12/2004 6:04:54 PM PDT by Paulus Invictus (4)
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To: Rockitz
I want names too, it is an insult to those of us who attended classes for 4 or 5 yrs, did tons of work with which we disagreed, and put up with longwinded Dem/Lib professors with an agenda...just to get a piece of paper that would let us do what we were qualified to do in the first place....YES, I want names, fraud charges, reimbursement of salaries and I want to know how they have impacted the job they took from someone who actually did the work to get there. Have they made critical mistakes because of a lack of expertise, thereby influencing important government decisions that we would object to? Were they appointed by Clinton or someone else based on that phony degree?
37 posted on 05/12/2004 6:05:15 PM PDT by Kackikat
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To: Diverdogz
Ref post #23.

Thank you for your interesting and informative comments. I didn't realize Mr. Rove did not have a degree. I had never given it a thought. I am guilty of "presuming."

38 posted on 05/12/2004 6:15:49 PM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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Comment #39 Removed by Moderator

To: TaxRelief
I think that many Baby Boomers lied on their resumes and/or defaulted on their student loans.

Grain of Salt Warning: I got this from seeing one or two episodes of "Mad About You." Paul Reiser said, "just lie on your resume," and the audience laughed. Helen Hunt said, "I went to Yale, but skipped out on my student loans." Again, the audience laughed.

They probably would not have laughed if, for example, Reiser said, "commit fraud at your workplace," and Hunt said, "steal expensive things from your school."
40 posted on 05/12/2004 6:19:10 PM PDT by Unknowing (Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.)
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To: CharacterCounts
Ref post #27.

You are correct. It is the lie I don't and never will tolerate.

41 posted on 05/12/2004 6:22:45 PM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: GottaLuvAkitas1
How does one get a fake degree?

Classes USA: Online degree programs
(The possibilities are endless, but none of them are free.)

42 posted on 05/12/2004 6:26:23 PM PDT by TaxRelief (We have our marching orders, NC FReepers!)
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To: Kackikat; Paulus Invictus; Rockitz; texasflower
More info from http://www.news-leader.com/today/0512-Taxpayersf-85774.html:

According to the GAO report:

• Of 463 federal officials identified with bogus degrees, 257 are employed at the Department of Defense.

• The Energy Department had the second-largest number of employees with bogus degrees — 35. Next was the U.S. Postal Service, with 29, and the Department of Transportation, with 17. The report did not identify officials by name.

• Government officials who obtained bogus degrees included energy officials with "emergency operations responsibilities" and officials from the National Nuclear Security Administration with security clearances.

• GAO's inspector general reviewed its own employees and none was found to have fake degrees. "We're clean," said GAO spokesman Jeff Nelligan.

• A review of federal payments made to just two of 137 suspected diploma mills between July 2003 through February 2004 found that taxpayers paid $169,470 for fraudulent courses and degrees.

• Five of the diploma mills cited in the report took in at least $111 million in revenue between 1995 through 2000.

43 posted on 05/12/2004 6:43:08 PM PDT by TaxRelief (We have our marching orders, NC FReepers!)
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To: Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
Nothing that you wrote makes you guilty of anything :)
44 posted on 05/12/2004 6:50:05 PM PDT by Diverdogz
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To: Diverdogz
Ref post #27.

You are correct. It is the lie that I don't tolerate.

45 posted on 05/12/2004 6:52:04 PM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: KC_for_Freedom
Quite true, but claiming to have one gets a person consideration in hiring that the candidate does not deserve.

That's open to debate. If one were to be completely honest, then one must concede that quite often the demand for a degree is a way of artificially limiting consideration, and does not actually correlate to those capable of doing a given job. One can reasonably consider that fraudulent as well. I think that lying on ones resume speaks quite ill of the person, and those who do should really compensate theier employer if it turns out that they are not capable of doing the job (yeah, that'll happen) - but on the other side of it, if they are capable, without the certificate, then what does "deserve" mean?

46 posted on 05/12/2004 6:57:46 PM PDT by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: Diverdogz
You are so kind; I love you. I so rarely get a compliment. I now think "go to hell" is a compliment on FR. Thank you.
47 posted on 05/12/2004 7:00:45 PM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: TaxRelief
the government has no uniform way to check whether employees' alma maters are diploma mills that require little, if any, academic work,

Is it any wonder that our government screws up as much as it does? It can't even verify real schools, but it takes trillions from us in taxes? Morons.
48 posted on 05/12/2004 7:03:19 PM PDT by Bronco_Buster_FweetHyagh
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To: muawiyah; kristinn; tgslTakoma
Her name is Laura Callahan and the article stated that she had resigned her position in Homeland Security. I wonder where Ms. Callahan is now.
49 posted on 05/12/2004 7:06:29 PM PDT by Angelwood (FReepers are Everywhere! We Support Our Troops! (Hillary's Vast Rt Wg Conspiracy))
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To: Angelwood
For all we know she's probably got a job with USPS where so many of her friends are located. Someone might check on that.
50 posted on 05/12/2004 7:26:09 PM PDT by muawiyah
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