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Teachers Placed on Leave for Berg Video
AP ^ | 5/15/04 | AP

Posted on 05/15/2004 9:29:14 AM PDT by I_saw_the_light

VILLA PARK, Calif. - At least three teachers have been placed on paid leave following complaints they showed students the videotaped beheading of American Nicholas Berg in Iraq (news - web sites).

Villa Park High School English teacher Stephen Arcudi allowed students to use his classroom computer to see video footage of Berg being executed, school officials said.

"Because of our concern over his judgment and the way he handled the situation, we have put him on leave while we continue to investigate," said Orange Unified School District Assistant Superintendent Cheryl Cohen.

Two other teachers were put on leave by the Grossmont Union High School District near San Diego.

Cohen said both a parent and a student complained.

Arcudi, 46, said he discouraged a student from trying to find the Berg video on the Web. But his students said Arcudi gave out the Web address where the video could be found.

"He said: `This is the enemy we're up against and these are the things you don't get to see,'" said Naim Dujak, 17. "He did not force anyone to watch it."


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: culturewar; doublestandard; indoctrinationcenter; iraq; nickberg; nickbergvideo; publicschools; reeducationcenter; taxdollarsatwork; teacher; terrorists; whywefight; youpayforthis; yourjobiniraq
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OK FReepers, What do you think? I dont want my 13 year old to see this. He's a sensitive kid and he understands these people are evil. But what about other kids who might not get it? I mean older kids-16, 17, year olds. I dont know myself-I see some of these video games and movies and I wonder if it would bother some of them at all. OTOH, `This is the enemy we're up against and these are the things you don't get to see,'" said Naim Dujak,

Everyone needs to understand what we are dealing with here and some kids dont get that at home. A lot of people were for showing this on CBS after all the prison pictures which I am sure kids have seen, so how about it? I am torn between knowing this would damage some kids and letting them know the reality of what will happen if these animals win. How about your thoughts?

1 posted on 05/15/2004 9:29:14 AM PDT by I_saw_the_light
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To: I_saw_the_light

It's not up to teachers to make this decision -- it's up to parents.


2 posted on 05/15/2004 9:31:19 AM PDT by ellery (Was Abe Lincoln a "chickenhawk?")
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To: I_saw_the_light

I think this teacher did the right thing. Individual high schoolers are DEFINITELY old enough to decide for themselves if they want to see this video.

This video is a major news story. A 16-year-old is only 2-years away from being old enough to be in the army, and there is no reason that the should not be given the option to see this video.

Personally, I think it is important that every American see this video so they remember who it is we are fighting and why.

I wouldn't let my 5-year-old see it -- but a teenager? They are definitely old enough to wake up and smell the coffee.


3 posted on 05/15/2004 9:37:16 AM PDT by Maceman (Too nuanced for a bumper sticker)
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To: ellery

You are exactly right. Where does it stop? The computers are in the classroom for learning not keeping up to date on sadistical actions. Are the students allowed to access porn in order to study sex issues? If a student wants to see this there is the local library or their home computer. It is sad that schools think that parents are incapable of making these decisions and so they set out to correct the problem.


4 posted on 05/15/2004 9:38:06 AM PDT by taxesareforever
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To: I_saw_the_light

I'm torn on this as well, so I think I would err on the side of getting parental permission first. I think the kids should see it and that most of them should be able to handle it, and I'm glad the teachers didn't force anyone to watch it.


5 posted on 05/15/2004 9:38:34 AM PDT by Quick1
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To: I_saw_the_light
Rather poor judgement on the teacher's part, Discuss what happened sure, but no need to give all the gory details. If kids want to see iit they can look it up themselves.

As a teacher, I am amazed at the lack of judgement some other teachers use. To do something like this is asking for trouble.

6 posted on 05/15/2004 9:38:55 AM PDT by The Great RJ
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To: I_saw_the_light

I want everyone of adult age to see this, and we need to see the real 9/11 videos. This traitorous crud the left is pulling has to be exposed, and the nature of our enemies has to be in everyone's mind.


7 posted on 05/15/2004 9:40:46 AM PDT by gitmo (Thanks, Mel. I needed that.)
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To: I_saw_the_light

Anyone with this poor judgement should not be a teacher.


8 posted on 05/15/2004 9:41:51 AM PDT by Double Tap
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To: I_saw_the_light

I've heard two teachers here in Tacoma, WA are on leave for showing the video.....I'm thinking they should get parental permission, but I think parental permission should be required for ANY discussion of sex, homosexuality, bisexuality, etc.....in other words, anything outside of readin', ritin', and 'rithmetic...


9 posted on 05/15/2004 9:44:00 AM PDT by goodnesswins (Countries around the world are ALIENATING ME...an American!)
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To: I_saw_the_light
Under a certain age....and I'm thinking it's pretty inappropiate. Maybe 15-16 yrs. of age......maybe younger in a case by case way.

Most kids, these days have been exposed to more violence, ( real and fake ) than I ever was when I was a teenager....

Besides that....many 17-19 yr olds....are better than the media at determining the difference between humiliation...and killing.

For me...where the rubber meets the road would be the teacher taking it upon himself/herself to deem what is appropiate, and what is not...for my kid.

Another reason why we HS'ed.....

FWIW-

10 posted on 05/15/2004 9:44:08 AM PDT by Osage Orange (Don't believe everything you think........)
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To: ellery

I agree.

Parent's decision.

I DO think the matter should be discussed in school, ( And I LIKE this teacher's comments!) and I suppose if they wanted to have the video shown in class, they could get paretns to sign a permission slip.

Kids whose parents won't sign can study in the library.


11 posted on 05/15/2004 9:47:00 AM PDT by tiamat ("Just a Bronze-Age Gal, Trapped in a Techno World!")
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To: I_saw_the_light

As a parent, I would have some concerns. As a human being and watching how the press ignored the horrific brutality committed against a young American plus the fact we need a wakeup call in a hurry since 911 didn't achieve a complete one, something has got to happen to make people realize that islam IS NOT a religion of peace. And that there are barbaric people in this world ready to duplicate what happened to Nick Berg if get caught in the wrong situation. We need to get our children ready. Too bad Michael Berg didn't put more of a warning to his son.


12 posted on 05/15/2004 9:47:47 AM PDT by lilylangtree (Veni, Vidi, Vici)
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To: I_saw_the_light
am torn between knowing this would damage some kids and letting them know the reality of what will happen if these animals win. How about your thoughts?

....how could it damage them anymore than perverted MTV or the video games out there, which lets them be the killer?????

13 posted on 05/15/2004 9:48:12 AM PDT by GrandMoM (REMEMBER God is never surprised. He knows everything BEFORE it happens!!!!!!)
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To: I_saw_the_light

Old enough for slasher films, old enough for the truth.


14 posted on 05/15/2004 9:48:27 AM PDT by Diogenesis (We do what we are meant to do)
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To: ellery
It's not up to teachers to make this decision -- it's up to parents.

This is a tough one, because some parents are idiots. Ask Nick Berg. The parents should have the final say on this, but I hope many people watch the video.

15 posted on 05/15/2004 9:50:26 AM PDT by Pukin Dog (Sans Reproache)
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To: I_saw_the_light

Although the teacher showed bad judgment, I bet he wouldn't have gotten in trouble if the students had seen Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse photos.


16 posted on 05/15/2004 9:50:30 AM PDT by inkling
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To: ellery

Agreed. It would be a worthwhile discussion topic but as a picture or video it is definitely not suitable for children and those with minor children under 18 should know that.


17 posted on 05/15/2004 9:52:21 AM PDT by secret garden (Go Spurs Go!)
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To: I_saw_the_light

I went to VPHS (a loooonnnng time ago). Bully for Arcudi!


18 posted on 05/15/2004 9:54:28 AM PDT by null and void (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: GrandMoM
I'd have to agree with you on the MTV.

I've lived in areas of the world that were family values were the way of life in the community. Cable TV came and with it MTV. These places haven't been the same since. The kids don't know what the real world is all about, and unfortunately here in the States their parents "don't get it" either. I've never seen so many 30ish "kids" still living at home.....and probably still watching MTV.
19 posted on 05/15/2004 9:56:24 AM PDT by not2worry
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To: The Great RJ
If kids want to see it they can look it up themselves.

Ummm, they did. Read the article...

20 posted on 05/15/2004 9:56:26 AM PDT by null and void (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: Double Tap
Anyone with this poor judgement should not be a teacher.

We disagree.

21 posted on 05/15/2004 9:57:28 AM PDT by null and void (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: I_saw_the_light

It's up to me, the parent. And for everything else a note always gets sent home for us to sign, that definetely should have been done in this case!!!


22 posted on 05/15/2004 10:04:16 AM PDT by Mon
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To: null and void
We disagree on what?

That it was poor judgement for the teacher to direct the kids on where to go to see the video, and provide the means to do it, all without the parents permission?

OR, that people with bad judgement should not be teachers?

23 posted on 05/15/2004 10:05:26 AM PDT by Double Tap
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To: I_saw_the_light
It is a very serious mistake for anyone whose job does not require it to look at pictures of a severed neck. I can only speak from personal experience, but I handled a murder case 21 years ago, where the victim's head was almost severed, and the very detailed Police photos of the severed anatomy were presented to the jury. While there were other emotionally wrenching aspects to the case, so that those pictures were not the sole factor, by any means, they were a major factor in the fact that six of the jurors (one half) had to seek psychiatric help afterward.

I also know very intelligent persons who have been terribly traumatized by seeing the results of auto fatalities where a head was severed. The detailed images of a severed neck are far more traumatic than those of a bullet riddled body. This is not something to seek out, or encourage others to seek out.

I do not know how detailed the images from the Berg murder may be. I have no intention of pursuing those images. One does not have to go out of one's way, to torture one's own psyche, to understand that killing the innocent to make political statements is wrong. Indeed, there is a major danger in doing so, that one will make savagery seem more, rather than less, acceptable.

William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site

24 posted on 05/15/2004 10:07:03 AM PDT by Ohioan
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To: I_saw_the_light
If I recall correctly, the reason this story is being picked up by the pressWHORES, the teacher are ANTI-WAR and were telling and showing the student one reason WHY we shouldn't have gone to war. I read that in another article by some other paper! It's another hit piece against the president, the war and of course blame Bush for Berg beheading! That's why the story made waves!
25 posted on 05/15/2004 10:08:26 AM PDT by RoseofTexas
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To: I_saw_the_light

Sorry, this should have been left up to the parents. It was not the teachers' place to show it, just as it would not be their place to show "adult" type movie or music clips they felt were "relevant." They meant well but did wrong.


26 posted on 05/15/2004 10:08:50 AM PDT by Libertina (This Tagline contains adult content and has been relocated to the Smokey Back Room.)
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To: Libertina
The reason we don't show kids porn is that we don't want them trying out what's in the movie. Do you really think that any of the kids who saw that beheading are going to try it out? Kids may be growing up too fast today, but they need to know about our enemies.

It wasn't too gory when I was a kid to have to duck and cover under my desk if the Russkies launched nukes our way. A nuclear war is far more terrifying than an individual act of violence, no matter how bloody.

27 posted on 05/15/2004 10:14:33 AM PDT by hunter112
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To: Double Tap
We disagree that "children" who are a few years from draft age shouldn't see what they will be up against.

We disagree that a teacher who provides a web address and lets the "children" look it up themselves is a BAD teacher.

I think it should be REQUIRED viewing in senior level current events class.

It's Gen Y's equivalent of the Greatest Generation's "Why We Fight"

You seem to believe that ignorance of the enemy is a GOOD thing.

I don't.
28 posted on 05/15/2004 10:22:19 AM PDT by null and void (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: I_saw_the_light
"How about your thoughts?"

They just need to teach the kiddies how to suck a bannana, and how to put on a condom.

They have no business showing kids filth, like actual death. Ya know?

29 posted on 05/15/2004 10:24:07 AM PDT by G.Mason (A President is best judged by the enemies he makes when he has really hit his stride…Max Lerner)
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To: Double Tap

Does that include my high school history teacher who showed her students hours of Holocaust documentary films? Those were horrific as well and part of the syllabus.


30 posted on 05/15/2004 10:24:14 AM PDT by mewzilla
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To: I_saw_the_light

I don't see a dilemma here. Myself, I didn't have to decide not to see it, but that's just me. I read on this forum people bragging, although they wouldn't call it that, they had seen it 20 times. Well, most of our teachers are like most of us, why shouldn't they be? Expertly trained by Hollywood and the publishers of Stephen King, among others, to crave, although they wouldn't call it that, snuff movies, voyeuristic television, pornography under other names, and so on. Nothing to see here, except naked bodies, blood and gore, all's fine otherwise!


31 posted on 05/15/2004 10:24:40 AM PDT by Revolting cat! ("In the end, nothing explains anything!")
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To: Ohioan
I do not know how detailed the images from the Berg murder may be.

It's pretty low rez and blurry. Horrifying none the less. The time stamps indicate that the released "bragging rights" video is edited, eliminating a full minute of the actual sawing. Thank God.

32 posted on 05/15/2004 10:27:44 AM PDT by null and void (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: mewzilla

This video wasn't part of the class curriculum, was it?


33 posted on 05/15/2004 10:35:46 AM PDT by Double Tap
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To: Libertina

Agreed. I would not allow my daughter to be exposed to that video, though her contemporary history class did discuss the event.


34 posted on 05/15/2004 10:36:49 AM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: null and void
You needed this video to determine what our enemies were like? That is too bad.

I've known what our enemies were like for a long time, and I have never seen this video.

I guess we do disagree that it is the parents responsibility to determine whether their children see this or not. You obviously think the teacher should be making these decisions. I don't.

If the teacher in question had made the remark that, "This is all Bush's fault for getting us into this war", you would be up in arms about it. But since this teacher made a statement that was to your liking, it is OK.

You seem to believe that ignorance of the enemy is a GOOD thing.

Simply a ridiculous statement. Our enemy, radical islamic terrorist, have been demonstating their barbaric ways for some time now. This video is the first you've seen of it?

35 posted on 05/15/2004 10:51:11 AM PDT by Double Tap
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To: null and void

We've heard too much garbage for the last couple years, of how Islam is a "religion of peace". This shows the nature of our enemy better than 10,000 op-ed pieces. As someone said above, if you are old enough to see slasher movies, you are old enough to to see the truth.
--TRAVIS--


36 posted on 05/15/2004 10:57:31 AM PDT by TravisABQ (Is it true that cannibals don't eat clowns because they taste funny?)
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To: I_saw_the_light

Paid leave for being stupid?


37 posted on 05/15/2004 10:58:56 AM PDT by Unicorn (Two many wimps around The democrats would rather win the WH then win the war-Tom Delay)
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To: Double Tap
You needed this video to determine what our enemies were like? That is too bad.

Garsh! After 2-1/2 years of a steady diet of BOTH the President AND the media saying 24/7 "it's a religion of peace".

mebee.

Whatsa matter? You afeared of some high schoolers seeing the truth with their own eyes???

38 posted on 05/15/2004 11:05:50 AM PDT by null and void (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: Ohioan

"I do not know how detailed the images from the Berg murder may be. I have no intention of pursuing those images."

Then be careful when you peruse these Berg threads. Seriously. Some FReeper has decided to post screen shots of the bloody action without warning, so I saw what I did not want to see on two different threads.

Kinda ticked me off, but I don't have the energy to complain and get on that merry-go-round. It would be nice if they posted a large cap warning before, though, out of respect.


39 posted on 05/15/2004 11:09:48 AM PDT by avenir (There are bigger fish to fry...and that fish is probably me!)
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To: null and void

Did you suddenly go illiterate? Try to rewrite your last post with a little respect and sense and we can continue this debate.


40 posted on 05/15/2004 11:12:35 AM PDT by Double Tap
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To: Double Tap
Simply a ridiculous statement. Our enemy, radical islamic terrorist, have been demonstating their barbaric ways for some time now. This video is the first you've seen of it?

Nope. But I'd be willing to bet it's the first time some of the rock the vote MTV generation has gotten anything that remotely casts it in such a clear light.

How many 9-11 bodies did you see in US media?

Let's count them...One. The Fire Dept Chaplain, and that's only because the media thought (erroneously) that he was gay...

41 posted on 05/15/2004 11:13:43 AM PDT by null and void (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: Double Tap

After 2-1/2 years of a steady diet of BOTH the President AND the media saying 24/7 "it's a religion of peace".

Maybe.

What's the matter? Are you afraid of some high schoolers seeing the truth with their own eyes???

I might add that "it's a religion on peace" is the only thing the President and media agree on...


42 posted on 05/15/2004 11:16:49 AM PDT by null and void (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: null and void
Your preaching to the choir on this post. I agree.

But the topic of this thread and our discussion was on whether a high school teacher should be showing or making available this decapitation video to students without parental permission.

I still say it was bad judgement on the teachers part and he/she should be fired for doing it.

43 posted on 05/15/2004 11:19:54 AM PDT by Double Tap
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To: Double Tap

And that's the part that I disagree with you about.


44 posted on 05/15/2004 11:23:25 AM PDT by null and void (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: Double Tap

BTW, I'm not trying to pick a fight, I'm just noting that my opinion is different than yours.

I'm comfortable with that. I've been reading your posts and noding in agreement for years.


45 posted on 05/15/2004 11:26:10 AM PDT by null and void (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: null and void
After 2-1/2 years of a steady diet of BOTH the President AND the media saying 24/7 "it's a religion of peace".

Maybe.

What's the matter? Are you afraid of some high schoolers seeing the truth with their own eyes???

No, I'm not afraid of high schoolers seeing what barbaric animals can and will do. I just don't like the idea of teachers making decisions that could severly affect someone without the parents permission. I equate this with a teacher showing porn in the class room to make a point. Besides the fact that the porn would be illegal to show underage persons, it would demonstrate bad judgement. As this teacher did IMO.

I might add that "it's a religion on peace" is the only thing the President and media agree on...

Again, you are preaching to the choir.

46 posted on 05/15/2004 11:28:49 AM PDT by Double Tap
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To: I_saw_the_light

They will see worst on there own. What matters is how a parent responds to individual child.


47 posted on 05/15/2004 11:30:14 AM PDT by DAVEY CROCKETT (There is no such thing as coincidence, GOD is in control.)
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To: I_saw_the_light

The teacher probably should have gotten parental permission before showing the video. It was more than I could handle and I am an adult who has seen a lot.


48 posted on 05/15/2004 11:30:54 AM PDT by LoudRepublicangirl (loudrepublicangirl)
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To: null and void
Hey, even people on the same team can disagree on how to win the race, or war.

No hard feelings here.

49 posted on 05/15/2004 11:33:36 AM PDT by Double Tap
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To: I_saw_the_light

Everyone in America should be forced to watch this and all the unshown gore video/pics from the WTC. Otherwise we'll end up with kerry and losing this war.


50 posted on 05/15/2004 11:35:14 AM PDT by Monty22
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