Oh, wait. Maybe the writer didn't mean this in a literal sense. Never mind.
Posted on 05/18/2004 1:17:25 PM PDT by .cnI redruM
This ought to be a moment of great triumph for Europe and America together. Instead there is mutual disenchantment. On May 1 the European Union accepted 10 countries—most of them remnants of the Soviet empire—into membership. The EU is now a massive free-trade area and loose political union with 25 countries, 455 million people and an $11.6 trillion economy. After World War II, farsighted Europeans and Americans promoted European unification to end a history of ruinous continental wars. The vision has succeeded spectacularly, and yet there's no common celebration.
(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...
Could it be because Europe is on the fast track towards becoming an Islamic Republic????
Bush is not to blame ... save for rolling out the red carpet for PootiePoot politically same as Clinton rolled it out concretely, mining our own side natch, as the Russians stole Pristina from us.
Anyone whose read their Lenin knows damn good and well that the point of the Euro Soviet (or EU) is to render the nation-state redundant (confine it to Big Decisions like choosing the quaint images on the flip side of each nation's Euro issue) while forming into one giant economic muscle and the long-awaited collectived security system a powerhouse of "Western" energy sufficient to give the US a run for its money.
What's interesting is that China's got the number of our Little (former) Red Hen and is just sitting back and biding their time.
It'll be interesting, if not painful, for Americans to watch from here on out.
Having just helped with a slew of academic Spanish translations (I clean up the translations) on Agenda 21 and the EU stock market, their footnotes and cites suggeset that the writing's on the wall -- _been_ on the wall -- for anyone to see.
Actually, for PMSNBC I thought it was a reasonably good piece. It wasn't the hit piece I expected and came to a reasonable conclusion.
Oh, wait. Maybe the writer didn't mean this in a literal sense. Never mind.
"Could it be because Europe is on the fast track towards becoming an Islamic Republic????"
That was my first thought.
Our fore fathers left Europe and came over here for a reason. We do not want to be like the Europeans.
That said, the charge of ingratitude flows both ways. If Americans seem skeptical of the new Europe it is, in large measure, because the popular view is that we sacrificied a very great deal more, over 50 years of opposition to the real monster that was the Soviet Union, than the principal beneficiaries, who seem, to the U.S., to be using their newfound and hard-won independence to act, not independently of their benefactor, but in an ideology-driven, reflexive, blind and unconstructive opposition for opposition's sake. I don't know what fairyland we expected out of the whole thing, but that certainly wasn't it.
As long as I'm throwing accusations, let me continue with this: one large factor in the current dislocation is a rather unrealistic resentment on the part of the Europeans that the world they're entering as an entity isn't the one they've grandly declared exists: one in which negotiation trumps militarism and force as an extension of statecraft is crude, ignorant, and passe. It isn't really our fault that this isn't the case, nor is it entirely our fault that the EU finds itself ill-equipped to deal with the brutish realities of life in the wild. Wishing it otherwise won't make it so, and vilifying the United States as the successful practitioner of such force serves only to mask the fact that it's a damn good thing for them that we are.
lol!
>>>>their footnotes and cites suggeset that the writing's on the wall -- _been_ on the wall -- for anyone to see.
Sounds like some good FR posts. Are there links????
I dunno what their deal is... *I* don't feel disenfranchised.....
Sounds like a personal problem to me!
:::::snicker::::
I am sure that you're right and it is a very scary situation.
The truth is that Europe is too weak to lead and too proud to follow.
My pet theory is that Europe, or at least France, has been contemptuous of America since the time of the American and French revolutions. Basically, France has a wicked case of revolution envy. Theirs was an exercise in ugliness and absurdity, while ours was a triumph of ideological sanity. Furthermore, it was the unbalanced rationalism and state-centered "fraternity" of the French that would later heap so much suffering upon humanity in the form of Communism. Bottom line -- history has demonstrated that France's ideas suck and America's ideas work. And this galls the Gauls to the core. Their failures and their dependence on the US over the last century has left them with a sense of shame and envy that they assuage by casting us as the great moral evil in the world. It's all very unhealthy.
That is for sure!
If I felt that this country had something in common with Germany and/or France I would be more than a little concerned. Heaven forbid we ever reach that point.
In other words, the Euros are acting just like bratty and spoiled teenagers.
.cnI redruM wrote:
Even Bronze Age women enjoy suffrage in the US....(just a joke)
The EU a rival to the USA? That is laughable. Wait until the sloganeering ends and reality closes in on them. They just abandoned the notion of an EU wide patent process this week, imagine the feathers that would fly when they try to become a cohesive military power. The Greeks will not die for the Norwegians nor the French ransom the cities of Poland with Paris under a nuclear umbrella. This "Europe" that they talk of really does not exist in anything but their propaganda, a truth that shall be all to evident when hard times overtake them collectively and individually. The coming crisis is just a few years away.
With America out of the picture Germany would have to become a nuclear power and this is something that the Russians will never allow. It will be more like South America a few years on instead of the current dream of Europe that they are now intoxicated with.
This of course assumes that we do not let the Democrats turn us in the another European socialist state. I am curious about this comment:
What's interesting is that China's got the number of our Little (former) Red Hen and is just sitting back and biding their time.
It'll be interesting, if not painful, for Americans to watch from here on out.
Could you pleas elaborate on what you mean here as I do not quite understand what you mean to say. Are you implying that there will be an alliance between China and the EU? I so I would not bet on it. France is just looking for a new sugar daddy now that Germanies eyes are roving. The rest of Europe will not allow it. The new member states know who keeps them sae and it is not France.
As for Agenda 21 and the like, all I can say is that I have been personally involved with two of the EU Science and Technology programmes and one of the old EC's similar science initiatives in the 80's and I can tell you they are all a joke. Nothing really serious comes from them. I do not see any real threat from that angle except for a brief period of dominance in particle physics for about 10 years starting in 07, and that will have little practical application. The kind of reforms needed here are so deeply cultural, so close to the bone and so disruptive of not just the political order but the social order in the EU member states that I doubt it shall ever happen. I know planeloads of scientist that have moved back to the EU to "build the house of Europe" and within two or three years they are right back in the US of A and glad of it.
What we must do is cut taxes and regulations and obstacles to personal freedoms. Then all the gifted Europeans with fire in their bellies will just move over here.
The EU is going to be a shocking and bitter disappointment to the Europeans and they are beginning even now to see it. That is one of the key reasons for their bitter anti-americanism. As time goes on we shall see Europe vanish into history as a credible civilization. Our real struggle for dominance lies elsewhere.
At least that is my take on it and I deal quite abit with the EU and Russia.
Lots to think about there ... in many ways, I sure hope you're right and I have a few questions for you already which I'll frame when I have more time.
As for the "elites" who've designed this sytem, I still think the combination of proletarian and banker--to cop a Belloc phrase--will be more formidable than you suspect.
I guess I also see some things differently than you. The saddling of Germany with East German's problems as the Wall "fell into" the West ... I think there's some natural kneecapping built into the scheme from way back by some of the most calculating folk the world has ever seen.
I'm most curious of all how it is you see our achieving any dominance save that for which we're slated to achieve ... say, as in shelling out for all the "democratization" of select nations as we single out certain terrorists (in the Mid-East if not Ireland, Colombia if not Copenhagen) for our War on Terror game of Whack-A-Mole.
While I understand there are certain advantages to cornering the market on outsourced "security services" of newly-liberated nations about the globe (as discussed by Condi and Pootie-Poot this week), seems to me that taking on those responsibilities -- particularly in the unilateral fashion which alone makes them attractive from an intel and/or control standpoint -- drains both our finances and our store good will capital worldwide.
Thanks very much for the "hopeful" post ... trust you don't mind if I revisit same later with some questions.
Regards.
I appreciate the cool map. I'm going on a school field trip with one of the kids next week to this Continental Divide site.
In his book "Of Paradise and Power," Robert Kagan argued that Americans and Europeans have divergent views of military power. Americans believe that only raw power can defeat evil, he wrote. Having controlled historical hatreds through the EU, Europeans prefer negotiation and compromise.
Europe has lived under the US security umbrella for nearly 60 years. They still believe the Cold War was won by negotiations rather than US military power, which made containment possible. Without the immediate threat of the Soviet Union, Europe is reverting back to its long held belief that they are superior to the uneducated, inferior rabble in the United States.
Europe is dying with a declining birth rate, a social welfare system that is sucking more and more resources from everything else including defense, and a wave of immigration, which threatens their cultures. France(as always) sees Europe as a counterweight to American influence and power and labors under the illusion that they will be the driving force. Unfortunately for France, we are not living in the 18th Century of shifting alliances and balance of power politics.
The gradual drifting of Europe from the US should not come as a surprise. With the defeat of the Soviet Union and the loss of a common enemy, the US military presence in Europe has steadily declined from the days of nearly 400,000 troops on the continent to less than 100,000 with more reductions to come.
NATO has become an alliance in search of a mission. Although the recent enlargement by adding 7 contries may be encouraging to the membership, NATO's military capabilities are not significantly enhanced. The US continues to spend more money on defense than the rest of NATO combined and the gap between our capabilities and the rest continues to widen. There are some real inoperability problems as Bosnia/Kosovo demonstrated. With Europe spending less and less on defense, the gap will continue to widen.
The US needs to rethink our basic relationship with Europe and figure out how to best advance our common interests. The Europeans may wish to blame GWB, but it is more of a case of Europe trying to find an identity post Cold War.
Maybe, but given the arrogance of the EU bureaucracy, it will me a messy collapse. I'm thinking of a latter-day 30-Years war: a multi-sided affair with the EU and a few nation-states on one side, and a motley collection of shifting groups on the other.
In my travels I've concluded "old" Europeans are clueless about, and fearful of, America's religiosity. It's a profound moral power they don't understand in their venal, secular entitlement-addled lives.
It is THE primary reason they hate and fear George W. Bush. He's a "God-fearing" man. It is why they cannot acknowledge the growing Muslim peril within their borders. They are empty people.
Come to think of it, that's why the American left hates him - and us - so.
=== He's a "God-fearing" man.
Perhaps.
I have a hard time reconciling this notion with his use of Scripture during his first prime-time address to the nation wherein he personally sanctioned the use of human embryos (albeit "already killed") for taxpayer-funded scientific study.
Additionally, I'm not sure I understand his consistently evidencing support for whatever "civil unions" the states may elect to designate as equivalent to marriage (for purposes of benefits or exercise of the "marital option" to procure children by adoption or the Artificial conception which provided the embryos from which his scientists extracted stem cell lines for study.)
I think the marital union (as foundation for Family ... absent the exclusion of God with birth control) and the creation of and respect for human life cuts to the heart of God's will where truly God-fearing men are concerned.
So I have my doubts, I suppose, based on his actions and words. Luckily, it's for his Maker to know and judge rightly his heart.
(And with respect to that last ... I guess I also wonder at comments like: "Jesus Christ is my favorite philosopher." Who has anything to "fear" from or presumes to be judged by their "favorite philosopher"? All well and good to enjoy the personal and most intimate relationship that is knowing, loving and serving God. But I personally lean towards awe and mystery (and shame) at the notion He knows me rather than confidently presuming He loves me no matter whose will I choose, chums to the end.)
I'm not sure "clueless" or "fearful" correctly describe the Old Europeans. For the most part, I don't think they much care save for where it strikes them as absurd we still cling to such childish notions or outrageous that we presume God's blessing regardless our actions as a nation ... including the aborting of over 40 million of our unborn, the santioning of homosexual marriage and/or civil unions, etc. etc.
They've got enough "historical" knowledge of Christianity to know better than that.
I do sense a Steppenwolf sort of melancholy sometimes ... and that's only to be expected. After all ... Hope is the Christian commission. I think it's a fact that what's left of our Ameri-Can Do attitude and freshness and optimism is indeed the vestiges of our Christianity.
But where we've fallen into the more calculated Choices we believe are forced upon us by exigencies of Economics and other Circumstance ... where we adopt birth control, abortion, tolerance for aberration and injustice ... I think we'll go the same way as the Euros.
The Age of Atheism has only begun, you know. All things considered, I suspect Christianity's saving graces are being tempered like steel in places like Sudan, Nigeria, China, Viet Nam, the Phillipines and Latin America moreso than here where our leadership -- folks like Tom DeLay -- tout the "saving graces of Western materialism" with which we think to win the hearts of Chicoms who already have our number, thank you very much, if the trade deficit's any indication.
Generally, when they're doing things right, Christians end up hated, resented and persecuted by this world, you know. No one ever fears or is jealous of a Christian. If that's the case, the Christian can't possibly be acting in a Christ-like fashion.
This is just one reason I think it's a pity that so many confuse material goods with God's blessings. I've been accused of being some kind of sadomachocist before for saying it, but God sends Trials and Tribulations to those He really loves. That's the stuff of which saints are made.
"The Greeks will not die for the Norwegians nor the French ransom the cities of Poland with Paris under a nuclear umbrella."
Exactly. Whereas North Carolinians, Oregonians, et al have proven over and over again that they are willing to die for each other.
"It is THE primary reason they hate and fear George W. Bush. He's a "God-fearing" man. It is why they cannot acknowledge the growing Muslim peril within their borders. They are empty people."
Strange but true. To them (and the American Left, a spin-off of said Euro-Elites) GWB is the religious fanatic -- but somehow the Islamo-Thugs AREN'T.
Hmmm....
Drifting Apart? I'm not sure "drifting" is the proper word to use regarding europe flushing itself down a third world toilet.
Here's a better one as far as detail and nomenclature are concerned, but it doesn't show the direction of techtonic plate movements (which were surely oversimplified on the other map, anyway).
(Apologies for getting the thread off topic with this gag; the figurative as opposed to literal drifting apart of Europe and the US is an important issue.)
Samuelson is not so bad sometimes. But he makes a common error, in that his premise is based on a rather significant over-estimation of the similarity of Europe and America historically.
For most of history since the US was established, we have not been close cultural partners. The exception has been with Britain, and since the onset of the WW II/Cold War era a sort of superficial papering over, in the service of a common security goal (it wasn't enough to keep France from pulling out of NATO in the sixties, even though we saved the Franc, and then attempting to destroy the dollar in 1970.)
Not long ago, Condi Rice was addressing the issue of US-Euro relations cooling off--she said it plainly: "We are not like Europe. We have different values." Indeed, it has always been so.
I'm just reminded of Kevin Nealon's words: "Europe -- They're always there when they need us."
Thanks, even better. What gag? I emailed this one to the teacher. The literal drifting apart of Europe and the US is an important issue. I look forward to the field trip! :-)
BINGO!
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