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Kerry and Communion: The Real Issue (barf)
BusinessWeek Online ^ | May 19, 2004 | Patricia O'Connell

Posted on 05/19/2004 1:31:22 PM PDT by Pete

The lines between politics, religion, and personal freedom just got a little blurrier. In a recent pastoral letter to his parishioners, Colorado Bishop Michael Sheridan declared that Roman Catholics who vote for politicians who support women's abortion rights, stem-cell research, euthanasia, and gay rights should not take Holy Communion.

(Excerpt) Read more at businessweek.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: catholicpolitiians; catholicvoters; communion; kerry
The author has several problems with her argument. Here are a few.

1. As much as the pro-Abortion lobby would like you to believe it, abortion is not a political issue. It is a moral issue. The redefining of abortion as a political issue was a calculated maneuver because they knew they could not win on the moral front.

2. Saying religion is a "private matter" is nothing more than the method by which the secularists among us attempt to silence Christian voices. The "private matter" argument carries no weight when held under the light of the first amendment.

3. This is not a case of the Church trying to influence politics. The Church, (or any church, for that matter) is free to define its doctrine and requirements for participation. What we actually have here is a politician (and others) who are trying to change the Church - not the other way around.

There are more. Ms. O'Connell can be reached via email at patricia_o'connell@businessweek.com

1 posted on 05/19/2004 1:31:22 PM PDT by Pete
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To: Pete
Saying religion is a "private matter" is nothing more than the method by which the secularists among us attempt to silence Christian voices.

Unless those voices are raised in favor of leftist-approved causes like welfare or opposition to the death penalty.

2 posted on 05/19/2004 1:43:57 PM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: Pete

"The lines between politics, religion, and personal freedom just got a little blurrier."

Actually, the Bishop's announcement made the line much clearer. The left continues to argue that abortion is just a political issue, refusing to acknowledge that there is any remote possibility that it an issue that invloves the preservation of life, which makes it a moral question, which makes it a religious issue.


3 posted on 05/19/2004 1:44:28 PM PDT by Spok (In the good old days, men were made of iron and their ships were wooden.)
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To: Pete
Where is the line that separates church and state?

If such a line exists at all, it does not run through a church. The Catholic Church, as is any church, is free to conduct its business as it sees fit, so long as the rights of others are respected. What part of "free exercise" does the author not understand?

4 posted on 05/19/2004 1:48:39 PM PDT by David75
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To: Pete

My tag line says what kerry is in regards to church vs state.


5 posted on 05/19/2004 1:50:18 PM PDT by Iron Matron (Those who serve two masters also have two faces.)
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To: David75

"Where is the line that separates church and state?"

The separation of Church and State means that the government will not finance a Church or regulate a Church. I don't see the GOP granting financial favoritism to any religion or sect.

Will someone explain to me how school prayer, God in the national pledge, and a (we can hope, right?) ban on pre-natal infanticide are violations of that separation?


6 posted on 05/19/2004 1:54:15 PM PDT by French-American Republican
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To: Pete; NYer; Polycarp IV; Aquinasfan; ThomasMore; american colleen; Desdemona; livius; Maximilian; ..
The notion that the liberal media or the Democrats can tell the leaders of the Catholic Church that they must give Holy Communion to pro-abortion maniacs and liberal wacko types like John Kerry (or their supporters) is so absurd it defies much comment. I don't recall the "establishment" clause of the Constitution giving authority over Catholic sacraments to non-Catholic liberals. What will they think of next??? I guess they want the NYT or ABC News to be able to vote for papal candidates.
7 posted on 05/19/2004 2:01:12 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Pete

It may be that they have gotten so used to relying on the Ted Kennedy and John Kerry types to tow the liberal line and distort Catholic teachings that they just asssumed they had a right to authority over Catholic sacramental matters
as well. Talk about statist totalitarianism out of control! Where do they think they are, China? The Soviet Union? Albania?


8 posted on 05/19/2004 2:04:45 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Pete; NYer; Polycarp IV; narses
I ask myself...WHY is this in BusinessWeek???

And then it should be obvious. Using aborted embryonic cells for medical research is BIG BUSINESS. The pharmaceutical industry and the gnostic Biotech firms would love to be able to charge through the roof for "therapies" using cells from the corpses of aborted human babies. Disgusting!

9 posted on 05/19/2004 2:10:54 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Pete

Excellent analysis. That "political issue" thing comes right out of the weekly fax of Dem Talking Points.


10 posted on 05/19/2004 2:26:16 PM PDT by madprof98
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To: cpforlife.org

ping.


11 posted on 05/19/2004 2:32:23 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Pete
John Kerry Throws Communion Hosts Back At Vatican
hehehe
12 posted on 05/19/2004 2:44:06 PM PDT by happydogdesign
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To: Pete

In the same issue, the article on stem cells was just as tone-deaf morally and logically. This is one mag that won't get my dime.


13 posted on 05/19/2004 3:04:52 PM PDT by Paul_B
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To: Pete

Thanks for posting this. It's good to be aware that some liberals are trying to hijack the Catholic Church.


14 posted on 05/19/2004 3:09:36 PM PDT by syriacus (Have you hugged a rudderless, down-at-the-mouth liberal today?)
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity

They would settle for the VOTF Board of Directors having majority control of the Cardinalate-electors.


15 posted on 05/19/2004 3:11:45 PM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity

BINGO!!! You win the prize.

Watch Tom Thompson, now Sec'y, HHS, bend and twist to get those stem-cell research dollars to UW-Madison, just as he did as Governor of Wisconsin.

Thompson, BTW, claims to be Catholic.


16 posted on 05/19/2004 3:13:18 PM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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To: syriacus
It's good to be aware that some liberals are trying to hijack the Catholic Church.

They've been working on it since 1950--or more properly, since the day after Pentecost.

We're used to it.

17 posted on 05/19/2004 3:15:05 PM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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To: ninenot

This is the BIG STINK in the phony Catholic bioethics circles now - providing ethical cover for the expected, huge profits from harvesting aborted stem cells. Follow the money. They want to be able to give pharmaceutical companies, biotech firms, and research hospitals the right to create embryonic humans to be "harvested" for research.
The "Catholic" medical mafiosi who are in on this have blood on their hands. Disgusting beyond belief!


18 posted on 05/19/2004 3:17:20 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity

"The notion that the liberal media or the Democrats can tell the leaders of the Catholic Church that they must give Holy Communion to pro-abortion maniacs and liberal wacko types like John Kerry (or their supporters) is so absurd it defies much comment. "

Yes, and in the same sanctimonious demand, claim that separation of church and state demands that the Church give Communion to them!!!


19 posted on 05/19/2004 5:12:14 PM PDT by AMDG&BVMH
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity

"It may be that they have gotten so used to relying on the Ted Kennedy and John Kerry types to tow the liberal line and distort Catholic teachings that they just asssumed they had a right to authority over Catholic sacramental matters "

This is excellent analysis -- they are so used to going to dissidents to comment "authoritatively" on Church/moral matters, that to them, dissident = Church.

They can't afford to NOT have Catholic dissidents speaking out! It actually gives them some "Catholic cover" for non-Catholic, fundamentally immoral positions. If these Kennedy-Kerry "Catholics" are all discredited and no longer able to be called Catholics, the scales will fall from some people's eyes . . . NO ONE, including the media, will be able to then PRETEND that you can be a Catholic and support abortion.

It was a great scam, while it lasted! Hopefully, its days are numbered . . . ;)


20 posted on 05/19/2004 5:19:24 PM PDT by AMDG&BVMH
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To: AMDG&BVMH
If these Kennedy-Kerry "Catholics" are all discredited and no longer able to be called Catholics, the scales will fall from some people's eyes . . . NO ONE, including the media, will be able to then PRETEND that you can be a Catholic and support abortion.

Being Catholic and Democrat just don't go together. How any Christian can be pro-choice is amazing but true. Look at all the pro-choice Protestant denominations.

21 posted on 05/19/2004 5:45:27 PM PDT by Dr. Scarpetta
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To: AMDG&BVMH
They can't afford to NOT have Catholic dissidents speaking out! It actually gives them some "Catholic cover" for non-Catholic, fundamentally immoral positions. 20 posted on 05/19/2004 5:19:24 PM PDT by AMDG&BVMH

Nothing seems to give them a bigger charge then to create the illusion that a Catholic can support something woefully evil like abortion. Even non-Catholics can figure out there is something weird about pro-abortion "Catholics."

22 posted on 05/19/2004 10:41:47 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Dr. Scarpetta
Being Catholic and Democrat just don't go together. How any Christian can be pro-choice is amazing but true. Look at all the pro-choice Protestant denominations. 21 posted on 05/19/2004 5:45:27 PM PDT by Dr. Scarpetta

And it's much wider than just the abortion issue. Secular humanist liberals are Statists. They seek to impose the supremacy of a godless state and all of its governmental machinery and bureaucracy above all other institutions and concerns. This is the road to totalitarianism. How anyone who calls themselves a "Christian" could possibly go along with these policies is absurd.

23 posted on 05/19/2004 10:45:04 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Pete
What we actually have here is a politician (and others) who are trying to change the Church - not the other way around.

Absolutely right! That's why, when someone posted a satirical piece yesterday saying that Kerry wanted to start his own pro-abort Catholic Church, numerous people took it seriously. In this modern (or post-modern?) age, satire becomes more and more impossible -- because it's so hard to stay ahead of what's really happening!

24 posted on 05/20/2004 12:48:36 AM PDT by maryz
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
Using aborted embryonic cells for medical research is BIG BUSINESS. The pharmaceutical industry and the gnostic Biotech firms would love to be able to charge through the roof for "therapies" using cells from the corpses of aborted human babies.

One can't help suspecting it's darker than that; the "hard-headed businessman" doesn't invest in something until he thinks it has a good chance of success. All the stem-cell therapies that have succeeded to date are adult or placental stem-cells. Embryonic stem-cell experiments have been worse than failures.

25 posted on 05/20/2004 12:52:39 AM PDT by maryz
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To: Dr. Scarpetta

"How any Christian can be pro-choice is amazing "

People have an amazing capability for rationalization and denial. That is why: 1. The media likes to publicize pro-abortion Catholics and Christians, so that the avg. pew sitter could think, hey, there are some really important people who are prochoice so it is ok for me, too. 2. The media tries to make prolifers shut up and go away, and calls them extremists, so the avg. pew sitter could think, hey, I don't want to be like those raving extremists . . .

But the most important reason, I think, is to assuage their own consciences, by shutting out the credible pro-life voice so that they can pretend it does not exist at all . . .


26 posted on 05/20/2004 6:41:52 AM PDT by AMDG&BVMH
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity

"give them a bigger charge "

again, very perceptive. There does seem to be an element of gloating involved! ;)


27 posted on 05/20/2004 6:42:59 AM PDT by AMDG&BVMH
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
I once got into an interesting conversation with two student, one RCC and ELCA. They both argued for stem cell research, since the abortion happened already why not use the stem cells (dead baby parts) for the "greater good".

One student, who had given a talk about stem cells at her ELCA church, said that her dad had diabetes and that stem cells might cure him. I ended the conversation by asking how many dead babies was her dad's life worth?

In the end, that is what this type of research is. Extermination along the lines of what the Nazi doctor's of WWII got hanged for.
28 posted on 05/20/2004 9:08:06 AM PDT by redgolum
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To: redgolum
They both argued for stem cell research, since the abortion happened already why not use the stem cells (dead baby parts) for the "greater good".

Not hard to refute. For one thing, it is unethical and unlawful to take parts of someone's body without their consent. If the donor didn't consent, you are grave-robbing from a murdered baby, a crime scene. Utilitarian arguments FOR killing unborn babies for parts are grotesquely absurd. It's hard to imagine God would allow this to proceed without wrathful consequences. Sad that so many Americans, even those calling themselves Christians, see no problem with this monstrous development in tissue harvesting from the aborted.

29 posted on 05/20/2004 12:47:51 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: maryz
One can't help suspecting it's darker than that

Apparently they have lost any sense of the sacredness or dignity of human life. Sad that so many modern Americans, even some calling themselves Christians, have fallen into this madness and collective moral insanity.

How long can such a civilization survive?

30 posted on 05/20/2004 12:50:48 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
I whole heartedly agree. While neither of the two was a close friend, they were pretty good acquaintances. I know that neither one had thought their positions through to its logical extreme.

What worries me is that there are so many who think like that. I actually heard someone say we should use aborted babies and old people for medical research so they could contribute to the society. Many of the doctors in pre war Germany used similar logic.
31 posted on 05/20/2004 2:26:09 PM PDT by redgolum
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