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14 arrested in undercover federal probe of Nevada gun shows
Las Vegas SUN ^ | May 21, 2004 | ASSOCIATED PRESS

Posted on 05/22/2004 4:54:17 PM PDT by TERMINATTOR

RENO, Nev. (AP) - Federal agents working undercover at gun shows in Nevada the past year have arrested 14 suspects on a variety of firearms charges that include illegally possessing machine guns and explosives, agents said Friday.

The FBI, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and local law enforcement agencies joined to apprehend the 13 men and one woman in five Western states - Nevada, California, Utah, Idaho and Washington - as part of "Operation Over the Line."

Nine of the suspects were arrested after search warrants were served Friday, and five others already were in custody as part of the investigation, said Daniel Bogden, U.S. attorney for Nevada.

They've been indicted by federal grand juries in Nevada and Idaho. The indictments, some dating to February, were unsealed Friday.

"Undercover ATF agents purchased nearly 40 firearms using different Reno gun shows as the hub of activity," said John Torres, ATF special agent in charge of the San Francisco office.

"We also seized explosives at one residence in Reno today," including 20 blasting caps and 20 feet of detonating cord, he said.

The agents purchased guns over the past year at about 10 gun shows, one in Las Vegas and the rest in Reno, including large events held at the Reno Hilton hotel-casino and the Reno-Sparks convention center, authorities said. The weapons include eight machine guns, 10 hand guns and 15 long guns, Torres said.

Items seized include a bulletproof vest, assault rifles and semiautomatic pistols - specifically a Korean-made AK47 machine gun, a .45-caliber submachine gun, an AK47 semiautomatic assault pistol, a Glock 9 mm pistol, a Glock .40-caliber pistol and a Baretta semiautomatic pistol.

"We want to show that you can't use gun shows as a vehicle to conduct illegal firearm sales," Torres said.

The operation was "part of a nationwide commitment to reduce the number of illegal guns in possession out there," Bogden said.

Assistant Washoe County Sheriff Jim Lopey said the operation was a huge success.

"We got a lot of weapons off the street," he said.

Torres and Bogden said each of the suspects appeared to have been acting independently and none is known to be involved in terrorism or belong to a gang.

"But we want to be sure they do not get into the hands of gang members," he said.

The indictments show undercover buys were made at the "Las Vegas Gun Show" on Jan. 17 and at various sessions of the "Big Reno Gun Show" on April 23 and last year on Aug. 16 and Nov. 15.

"We are not targeting gun shows. We're targeting people who use gun shows as a conduit to traffic illegally in firearms," Torres said.

A message left at the number for the Big Reno Gun Show was not immediately returned. Another listed contact, Donald Shiffer of Carson City, was out of town and not immediately available for comment, said a woman who answered the telephone and identified herself as his daughter.

Nina Delgadillo, senior special agent and spokeswoman for the ATF field office in Sacramento, emphasized that most gun show dealers follow the law.

"This is a minority of people who are using gun shows to conduct illegal activities," she said.

"Unfortunately you have this other kind of people mixed in here," added Thomas Cannon, ATF special agent in charge of the Reno office.

Several of the people charged were felons or were covered by domestic violence restraining orders and were prohibited from possessing firearms, Bogden said.

Only licensed dealers can sell firearms at gun shows and they can sell directly to people only from within the same state. Sales to out-of-state buyers must include a licensed dealer from their home state.

Most of the charges in the indictments are punishable by up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine, although several carry maximum sentences of 10 years in prison, including possession of a machine gun and possession of a firearm by a felon, Bogden said.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: California; US: Idaho; US: Nevada; US: Utah; US: Washington; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 10handguns; 15longguns; assaultrifles; atfisagang; atfjackboots; atfsacramento; bang; banglist; batfe; bulletproofvest; fbi; gunshows; jackboot; overtheline; renonv; restrainingorders; semiautomaticpistols
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Even under the unconstitutional "gun laws", private sales between individuals at gunshows are "permitted", aren't they?
1 posted on 05/22/2004 4:54:19 PM PDT by TERMINATTOR
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To: TERMINATTOR

Not in California, and several other states. Sales MUST go through a dealer. State law, not Federal.


2 posted on 05/22/2004 4:59:18 PM PDT by weaponeer
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To: TERMINATTOR
"We got a lot of weapons off the street," he said.

There's that same trite, tired line they always use. As if the old lady who brings a rusted .38 to a gun amnesty buy back would otherwise be using it to rob bodegas.

3 posted on 05/22/2004 5:03:42 PM PDT by rageaholic
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To: TERMINATTOR
All gun laws are not unconstitutional. And there are definitions of what consitutes a dealer and what constitutes an individual.

Class III NFA and explosives have definite restrictions over who can sell them (individuals cannot sell them to persons who don't have a licenss).

But I'll turn it around: The Stupid Liberals have been shouting about the "gun show loophole" that allows this to happen. But we now see that it is illegal and that all we really need to do is enforce the law. We don't need new laws.

4 posted on 05/22/2004 5:04:18 PM PDT by tbeatty (fr ANWR: "Why should care about a Caribou I'm never gonna eat?")
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To: TERMINATTOR

Depends on the state, one of those pesky "loopholes" the
socialists are intent on closing.

Gee 14 people busted, in five states, over a year, must be
some kind of pandemic huh.


5 posted on 05/22/2004 5:05:02 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: TERMINATTOR
Items seized include a bulletproof vest, assault rifles and semiautomatic pistols - specifically a Korean-made AK47 machine gun, a .45-caliber submachine gun, an AK47 semiautomatic assault pistol, a Glock 9 mm pistol, a Glock .40-caliber pistol and a Baretta semiautomatic pistol.

How is it illegal to have a bulletproof vest? And what is an "AK47 assault pistol" ?!?!?!

6 posted on 05/22/2004 5:13:31 PM PDT by ikka
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To: ikka

AWB will be renewed. Count on it.


7 posted on 05/22/2004 5:16:02 PM PDT by Rebelbase
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To: ikka
I believe California DEFINES a bullet resistant vest or armor as a FIREARM so they can keep Joe Citizen from having one.

Similar noises have been made in Ohio wanting to make armor illegal for citizens.

8 posted on 05/22/2004 5:19:39 PM PDT by hoosierham
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To: ikka

In some states it is illegal to own a bullet proof vest.


9 posted on 05/22/2004 5:20:46 PM PDT by eastforker (The color of justice is green,just ask Johny Cochran!)
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To: tbeatty
All gun laws are not unconstitutional.

Okay, I'll play. Name one gun law that is NOT an infringement of the Second Amendment.

10 posted on 05/22/2004 5:20:59 PM PDT by Living Stone (The following statement is true: The preceeding statement is false.)
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To: tbeatty
Words have meanings ;liberals and statists ignore them.

"shall not be infringed"; now how much clearer can that be ?

Licenses,permits,registration are all infringements. Of course, the judges of the twentieth century turned the Constitution on its head.

11 posted on 05/22/2004 5:22:58 PM PDT by hoosierham
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To: tbeatty

All this talk about unconstitutional "gun laws" that aren't laws is giving me a headache, so I'll just agree - there are no gun laws!


12 posted on 05/22/2004 5:23:14 PM PDT by TERMINATTOR ("In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." -General Patton)
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To: ikka

When Malvo was on the rampage, BPF were selling like hotcakes except they were being brought in from out of state cuz they could not be legal baught or sold, I think it was Md, not for sure .


13 posted on 05/22/2004 5:24:39 PM PDT by eastforker (The color of justice is green,just ask Johny Cochran!)
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To: hoosierham; eastforker

So if I buy some ceramic plates and put them into a fishing vest, I am committing a felony?!?! How the heck can you define a flat piece of ceramic or a yard's worth of Kevlar to be a firearm?!?!? ARGH....


14 posted on 05/22/2004 5:27:34 PM PDT by ikka
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To: Rebelbase
The gun laws ratchet only works one way;if AWB were permitted to expire a new precedent might be set.

Bush just may be a conservative ,as in one who wants no change;we wish for a reactionary to lead us back to a nation of free,self-responsible people.

15 posted on 05/22/2004 5:27:58 PM PDT by hoosierham
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To: tet68

Yeah, NWO statists would like us to believe the Second
Ammendment is a "loophole".


16 posted on 05/22/2004 5:31:08 PM PDT by TERMINATTOR ("In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." -General Patton)
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To: ikka
The same way some Cuban illegals are being detained at the border while in reality they are confined in federal prison a hundred miles from the nearest national border.

Lawyers need not refer to Johnson,Funk and Wagnal, or any other dictionary;was it the rabbit or the Red Queen who said :words mean what I want them to mean"?

17 posted on 05/22/2004 5:32:40 PM PDT by hoosierham
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To: ikka

In some or perhaps all states it is a felony for a convicted felon to possess a bulletproof vest.

How they gave up a right to passive self protection is beyond me.


18 posted on 05/22/2004 5:34:52 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: TERMINATTOR; yall

This federal action is a complete perversion of our constitution by ALL involved..
And the buck stops at the white house.


19 posted on 05/22/2004 5:35:13 PM PDT by tpaine ("The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being." -- Solzhenitsyn)
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To: TERMINATTOR

Note that NO connection to any TERROISTS is suspected or impugned;gosh I guess we have already caught ALL the terrorists hiding in the U.S. of A. !!!! At least we can spare the people to spend months harrassing a few citizens.


20 posted on 05/22/2004 5:36:42 PM PDT by hoosierham
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To: ikka

"AK47 assault pistol"


Krinkov? Osama has one in many of his videos.


21 posted on 05/22/2004 5:36:59 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (DEMS STILL LIE like yellow dogs.)
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To: TERMINATTOR

Whereas a "loophole" is a firing port in the wall, about 16 inches above the floor, it helps to tear some boards or sheetrock loose and fill the walls with dirt, also sandbags
are your friend.

Remember, a bunker without a berm, is a grave.


22 posted on 05/22/2004 5:38:32 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: hoosierham

The problem comes when a terrorist action is tied to a gun show, oh the outcry we will hear!
If you like gunshows better go now before they are a thing of the past.


23 posted on 05/22/2004 5:40:27 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: tpaine; *bang_list

Yep, lawless anarchy from the top down.


24 posted on 05/22/2004 5:42:27 PM PDT by TERMINATTOR ("In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." -General Patton)
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To: TERMINATTOR
Several of the people charged were felons or were covered by domestic violence restraining orders and were prohibited from possessing firearms, Bogden said.

If those charged as felons are still considered dangerous, you have to wonder why they didn't keep them locked up.

25 posted on 05/22/2004 5:49:50 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: TERMINATTOR; everyone
This federal action is a complete perversion of our constitution by ALL involved..
And the buck stops at the white house.

Yep, lawless anarchy from the top down.

Actually, I view it as worse that that. I see these ongoing infringements as a deliberate policy, intended to subvert away our republican form of government, and to replace it with the social welfare state model.

Communitarianism is alive and in charge in DC, regardless of which 'party' is in the white house.

26 posted on 05/22/2004 6:03:14 PM PDT by tpaine ("The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being." -- Solzhenitsyn)
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To: TERMINATTOR

So much for trying to claim that the 'gubermint' ought to go after gun criminals.


27 posted on 05/22/2004 6:06:53 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad (Rising waves, what motive is behind your impulse? The desire to reach upwards.)
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To: TERMINATTOR

In other news 10 million illegal alien lawbreakers continue to roam the country unchecked....


28 posted on 05/22/2004 6:07:42 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: FITZ

Supposedly by your 'logic' if someone gets their driver's license revoked then they must be incarcerated, too.


29 posted on 05/22/2004 6:08:24 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad (Rising waves, what motive is behind your impulse? The desire to reach upwards.)
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To: tpaine

Yes, anarcy is the wrong word for it. It's far more organized than that. Treasonous usurpation of power from the top down, is more like what I was trying to say.


30 posted on 05/22/2004 6:22:37 PM PDT by TERMINATTOR ("In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." -General Patton)
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To: TERMINATTOR

I don't know what orginizations to which you belong, but it appears you have work to do. We here in the Last Frontier, owned mostly by the federal government, have been working diligently and cooperatively with numerous organizations to regain state and individual rights. We now have an open carry law {Kimber .45ACP Pro Carry} and have held state oil leases. It's an infinite battle, but there is no choice. Whine if you must just don't quit. Regards,


31 posted on 05/22/2004 6:30:51 PM PDT by Alaska Wolf (Trained by English Setters)
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To: TERMINATTOR

I don't know what orginizations to which you belong, but it appears you have work to do. We here in the Last Frontier, owned mostly by the federal government, have been working diligently and cooperatively with numerous organizations to regain state and individual rights. We now have an open carry law {Kimber .45ACP Pro Carry} and have held state oil leases. It's an infinite battle, but there is no choice. Whine if you must just don't quit. Regards,


32 posted on 05/22/2004 6:30:51 PM PDT by Alaska Wolf (Trained by English Setters)
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To: Alaska Wolf

Oops, my bad, pilot error


33 posted on 05/22/2004 6:34:09 PM PDT by Alaska Wolf (Trained by English Setters)
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To: TERMINATTOR

If the government has no business being in my bedroom, it certainly has no business being in my gun cabinet.


34 posted on 05/22/2004 6:37:33 PM PDT by yooper (If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there......)
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To: Cultural Jihad

So much for trying to claim that the 'gubermint' ought to go after gun criminals.



And aside from violating arbitrary and dubious gun laws, what exactly was their "crime"?

The government ought to go against those who commit crimes against others using guns. But denying a released felon the right to self defense is morally wrong. If he's safe enough to let out, why worry?

The JBTs like to enforce arbitrary and absurd things as "gun crimes" so that their cheering section will vote them more money for going after "gun criminals."


35 posted on 05/22/2004 6:48:51 PM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Your Friendly Freeper Patent Attorney)
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To: TERMINATTOR

"We also seized explosives at one residence in Reno today," including 20 blasting caps and 20 feet of detonating cord, he said.



You don't suppose they busted the nice guy who sells cannon fuse and rocket igniters (wrapped in shrink wrap, with extending wires, as "electric matches") and decided to exaggerate a bit?


36 posted on 05/22/2004 6:51:50 PM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Your Friendly Freeper Patent Attorney)
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To: TERMINATTOR

If these folks were selling illegal weapons at the gun show what is the problem?. To me this article says we dont need more gun laws we need to enforce the ones we have now, I hav always said this, now I am going to complain when the law does what I ask? Gun shows arent a license to sell illegal arms.


37 posted on 05/22/2004 6:52:02 PM PDT by sgtbono2002 (I aint wrong, I aint sorry , and I am probably going to do it again.)
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To: Cultural Jihad
TERMINATTOR posted:

"Several of the people charged were felons or were covered by domestic violence restraining orders and were prohibited from possessing firearms, Bogden said."

______________________________________


If those charged as felons are still considered dangerous, you have to wonder why they didn't keep them locked up.
25 FITZ

______________________________________


Supposedly by your 'logic' if someone gets their driver's license revoked then they must be incarcerated, too.
29 cj

______________________________________


Daft logic on your part cj, as losing a driving license still permits you to own and ride in, thus 'use' a vehicle.

In the case at hand, the state is claiming it can flat out prohibit ownership/possession of certain types of property, based on what 'might' happen if it is misused.

That claim clearly violates the rule of constitutional law. -- We have an inalienable right to life, liberty, and property.. See the 14th.
38 posted on 05/22/2004 6:52:09 PM PDT by tpaine ("The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being." -- Solzhenitsyn)
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To: tpaine
We as a society make such determinations and judgments all the time. Drunk drivers are arrested even without plowing into pedestrians first, and it's hardly a constitutional issue. A counterfeiter can get his artwork and machines confiscated even if it never leaves his own private basement. A hacker can be barred from owning or using a computer. Any crime which is talked about and planned with others in advance is itself a crime, even if they don't act upon it. Seems the law is perfectly fine with such 'might happen' judgments.
39 posted on 05/22/2004 7:01:17 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad (Rising waves, what motive is behind your impulse? The desire to reach upwards.)
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To: Cultural Jihad

I think if you are a dangerous felon, you shouldn't be out of prison in the first place. If you're a domestic abuser --- beating your wife half-to-death or threatening to kill your family --- then you should be locked up. If you are not a danger --- but you could be in fear for your own life --- why shouldn't you have the right to protect yourself? If you committed a serious crime --- but you aren't dangerous, you could have some pretty bad enemies who wish to kill you --- shouldn't you have the same right to self-protection that I, a more innocent person has?


40 posted on 05/22/2004 7:02:46 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: Cultural Jihad

Here is an example --- you once committed some kind of felony crime --- maybe embezzled money from your boss but you served your time and you're out --- your ex-husband or ex-boyfriend is dangerous and threatening to murder you if you try to leave him --- you cannot get a gun for your own protection. That's why I think this kind of thing is bad.


41 posted on 05/22/2004 7:06:56 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: FITZ

Rights come with responsibilities. If one proves one's inability to act responsibly with a right, one loses the right. Whether one has to lose ALL rights is another question entirely.


42 posted on 05/22/2004 7:07:07 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad (Rising waves, what motive is behind your impulse? The desire to reach upwards.)
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To: sgtbono2002
Gun shows arent a license to sell illegal arms.

Just which arms are illegal under the second amendment? There is not a single gun law in this country which is not un-Constitutional.

When you see someone arrested for a non-violent "gun crime", i.e. merely possesion of a "prohibited weapon", what you are seeing is a crime being commited by an out of control illegitimate government.

43 posted on 05/22/2004 7:09:57 PM PDT by Living Stone (The following statement is true: The preceeding statement is false.)
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To: Cultural Jihad
A hacker can be barred from owning or using a computer.

A chronic drunk can ride a bus or bicycle --- what type of transportion you can have isn't a right in the Consitution --- a computer isn't either --- a computer isn't going to save your life --- it's not part of that right to protect your life or your family's.

44 posted on 05/22/2004 7:10:15 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: FITZ

"You wait here. I'll tell the warden you're demanding your rifle back."

45 posted on 05/22/2004 7:12:38 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad (Rising waves, what motive is behind your impulse? The desire to reach upwards.)
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To: Living Stone

Bingo, and amen!


46 posted on 05/22/2004 7:43:43 PM PDT by TERMINATTOR ("In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." -General Patton)
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To: TERMINATTOR
illegal guns

Sigh.

They speak the same language as in china. Illegal this, illegal that.

America is a land of laws meant to balance the law of the lawless.

There may be illegal aliens, illegal individuals, but illegal weapons? Technology? Whatever.

When idiotic morons who don't know the law and who do not know the technology claim successfuly they can backseat drive airline pilots and what not, the nation is on a path to decadence.

47 posted on 05/22/2004 7:45:48 PM PDT by JudgemAll
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To: TERMINATTOR

I just do not understand how people do not understand this. WTF is wrong with these people with thier "reasonable gun laws"--and on a supposedly conservative board, at that.


48 posted on 05/22/2004 7:51:59 PM PDT by Living Stone (The following statement is true: The preceeding statement is false.)
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To: TERMINATTOR
"We are not targeting gun shows. We're targeting people who use gun shows as a conduit to traffic illegally in firearms," Torres said.

They're targeting gun shows.

49 posted on 05/22/2004 7:56:01 PM PDT by TC Rider (The United States Constitution 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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To: Cultural Jihad

Would you be so kind as to say a prayer for me the next time you have prostrated yourself before the state-god from whom all privileges flow?


50 posted on 05/22/2004 7:57:22 PM PDT by Living Stone (The following statement is true: The preceeding statement is false.)
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