Posted on 05/23/2004 8:29:20 PM PDT by quidnunc
As I read it the author's point is that while the word is familiar to the Muslim world - the concept is not - I guess his prrof that the Muslim world knows what democracy is even while rejecting it is that their word for democracy is the same as the Greek. Maybe it's a stretch to put it in that way.
The Turks, Iranians, and Israelis are the only non-Arabs in the Middle East.
That's because up until 450 years ago, Turkey, as the former seat of the eastern Roman empire, was Christian. The fall of Constantinople in 1453 is why the Eastern Orthodox and Catholic churches are still at odds.
The only other advanced Islamic country is Iran. As we've seen, the majority of people there desire a secular government, but are being suppressed by the mullahs.
The Arabs are nothing but primitive neanderthals. If it wasn't Islam, they'd have come up with some other perverted theology as a cover for their profound male/sexual insecurities.
Yea, but theyre not your grandpa's Islamists. Theyre more like Christian Democrats; western Turkey (ie the functional part of Turkey) would never permit going back to the 10th century.
The arguement was that Islam was incompatible with democracy. Race and or nationality wasn't an issue here but perhaps it should be. I know the Turks aren't Arabs.
"If it wasn't Islam, they'd have come up with some other perverted theology as a cover for their profound male/sexual insecurities."
Yes, you are likely correct. There is something very strange about their absolute dread of women. Very peculiar. I don't know why women don't leave that religion in droves.
Are we making progress? When do the Islamists give up terrorism?
To repress religion, though, has its own faults.
I dont have a good answer to this dilemma but would just point out that Turkey is far from a true western-style democracy. Their military have the 'right' to engage in coups for the sake of the country's unity.
It's as if the Marines not the Supreme Court were the ultimate arbiter of the law of the land (hmmm, on second thought, ....).
NO. Most of Turkey was captured by Islamic Saracens, along with most of the Byzantine empire, as early as 650AD. The Ottomans came later by a few centuries to rule most of Asia Minor, and by 1000AD, the formerly great Byzantine empire was a rump state. Constaninople held on because it was magnificently guarded and impossible to seige, due to its sea approaches, great city walls and the terrain. But the advent of gunpowder changed that, and the Ottomans tooks Constaninople in 1400s.
And Destro can remind you that the ethnic Greeks of Turkey that remained under the ottoman rule were finally driven out in the 1920s under Turkey's nationalistic 'cleansing'.
The only other advanced Islamic country is Iran. As we've seen, the majority of people there desire a secular government, but are being suppressed by the mullahs. The early Caliphates were quite advanced, they borrowed knoledge from Christian syriacs/assyrians and so learned the wisdom of the ancient greeks and others; so was the tolerant Moorish empire that ruled parts of spain from 700s to 1300s... The period of 700-1000AD, Islam was at its civilizational apex while Europe was in the barely literate dark ages. When the Christians took Toledo from the Moors(1085AD), the Europeans "discovered" Aristotle, previously bottled up in a few dusty books in a few monastaries. From 1100AD on,Europe advanced while the lands under Islam did not. The rest, as they say, is history.
Dont confuse the current status with historical worth... countries like Egypt were the superpowers of 1500BC. From 50BC onwards, though, they've been the pawns of others (including various Arab invaders).
We're not talking about suppression, we're talking about reformation; injecting it with humanism, just as Christianity and Judaisn "grew up".
Lets say goodbye to the 10th century, where the Koran is interpreted literally and women are chattel and men get the hands chopped off for stealing an apple, and so on.
Oh, and Turkey is not all the way there, but theyre not too far behind with respect for the law, property, and the rest. Tunisua, also, is fairly civilized. It can be done, even in that part of the world.
'Cause they're just as screwed up. Such a pity that these primitives can reach out and 'touch' us. It would be so much nicer to just contain them in their own special little hell hole out in the desert. Alas, ain't no use sticking our heads in the sand, so here we are, taken to the (their) streets.
Islam is not compatible with DEMOCRACY! That is a fact that no one can ignore!
Islam is a very political religion and it wants to meddle in POLITICS. That is why It is dangerous!
Hinduism is less domination-oriented than Islam.
I agree in regards to the ethnic strife in Turkey. They seem to have had problems with Armenians,Greek Cypriots, and...Kurds over the years. It's like..."Turkey's for Turks but not for ye" when it comes to representative democracy!
200 years ago Americans lived in a Constitutional republic ( as we would like to continue to do so)....an idealistic republican is one who would wish for us to forego democracy and persist with our constitutional republic
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