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1 posted on 05/27/2004 6:32:15 AM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: RedBloodedAmerican

bump for later. thx


29 posted on 05/27/2004 7:27:32 AM PDT by I-spy-guy
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To: RedBloodedAmerican

Socialism is government ownership of the means of production (land and capital equipment). Nazi Germany retained private ownership of these things under government direction of their use.

Public direction of privately held means of production is the essence of fascism, both in Italy, in Germany, and in Roosevelt's failed New Deal schemes for the industry in the NRA and agirculture in the AAA.

Perhaps more accurately, we need to say that fascism is a leftist system that is antithetical to the rightist Anglo-American free enterprise system.

Hitler was a man of the left and the englightenment.


30 posted on 05/27/2004 7:30:52 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: RedBloodedAmerican

bump


32 posted on 05/27/2004 7:31:45 AM PDT by Tribune7
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To: RedBloodedAmerican
The author makes some wonderful points, this is something I have been telling people for years and he's right - they get that deer in the headlights look lol.

This is also why I worry about the current trends in the GOP. The GOP has always been the nationalist party and in the last few years appears to have jettisoned all support for traditional conservative principles of limited government, it is now only mildly less socialist than the Demcratic party. I do not liken GW Bush to Hitler like the nutsoid left has, GW is a great man, a natural leader with a solid moral compass. However once the pieces are in place - nationalism and socialism in one package - all that is needed is someone who is not a great man with a solid moral compass and all bets are off.

We are entering a period of long term conflict, the war against Islam will be long and bloody. As Orwell demonstrates unscrouplous leaders can manipulate patriotism and justify just about anything in the name of 'winning the war'. All totalitarian societies need an identifible enemy.

So what I fear is we are set up for a fascist-like fall - nationalism + socialism + war

33 posted on 05/27/2004 7:37:29 AM PDT by kjvail (Light 'em up George!!!!)
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To: RedBloodedAmerican

Yes, Hitler was a socialist, in fact a capital "S" socialist, But today, one cannot be "socialist" unless the socialist leadership recognizes one to be "socialist." So, I'm afraid Hitler has been repudiated by the PC grandchildren of his generation of socialists.


36 posted on 05/27/2004 7:49:16 AM PDT by Theodore R. (When will they ever learn?)
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To: RedBloodedAmerican

Bump for later read...


37 posted on 05/27/2004 7:53:43 AM PDT by Andonius_99
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To: RedBloodedAmerican
I guess that's why they called it the Nationalist Socialist Workers Party, or in it's German acronym the N.A.Z.I. party.

Doh!

41 posted on 05/27/2004 8:01:41 AM PDT by jerod
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To: RedBloodedAmerican
If this attempts to equate Nazi-ism with Enviromentalism or Conservationism, than this is a bunch of B.S.

You can disagreee with Greenpeace as most people do, but come on...

43 posted on 05/27/2004 8:17:15 AM PDT by conserv13
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To: RedBloodedAmerican
Nice selective bit of the NSDAP Programme (manifesto). Here's the whole thing, and you can see how it was very palatable to the German people at the time, and some are things many of us would like today. But notice how much of it's as much nationalist as socialist.

1. We demand the union of all Germany in a Greater Germany on the basis of the right of national self-determination.

Good thing, except his definition of "Germany" was pretty big.

2. We demand equality of rights for the German people in its dealings with other nations, and the revocation of the peace treaties of Versailles and Saint-Germain.

This is a result of the Treaty of Versailles, which tried to drive the German people into proverty and make it a second-class nation. We had a much better idea with the Marshall plan after WWII.

3. We demand land and territory (colonies) to feed our people and to settle our surplus population.

Lebensraum!

4. Only members of the nation may be citizens of the State. Only those of German blood, whatever be their creed, may be members of the nation. Accordingly, no Jew may be a member of the nation.

Here's a nationalist, racist bit.

5. Non-citizens may live in Germany only as guests and must be subject to laws for aliens.

That's not so bad, good idea for today.

6. The right to vote on the State's government and legislation shall be enjoyed by the citizens of the State alone. We demand therefore that all official appointments, of whatever kind, whether in the Reich, in the states or in the smaller localities, shall be held by none but citizens. We oppose the corrupting parliamentary custom of filling posts merely in accordance with party considerations, and without reference to character or abilities.

The Democrats wouldn't understand the "only citizens vote or hold office" thing. I like the idea of appointing by ability rather than party affiliation, should be done here.

7. We demand that the State shall make it its primary duty to provide a livelihood for its citizens. If it should prove impossible to feed the entire population, foreign nationals (non-citizens) must be deported from the Reich.

Ah, the socialism kicks in with a nationalist bent. Remember, this was a time when few had food.

8. All non-German immigration must be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans who entered Germany after 2 August 1914 shall be required to leave the Reich forthwith.

Bad idea, seriously stupid and nationalistic.

9. All citizens shall have equal rights and duties.

Okay, great thing.

10. It must be the first duty of every citizen to perform physical or mental work. The activities of the individual must not clash with the general interest, but must proceed within the framework of the community and be for the general good.

Seriously socialist.

We demand therefore:

11-17 are just outright communist land and economic demands.

18. We demand the ruthless prosecution of those whose activities are injurious to the common interest. Common criminals, usurers, profiteers, etc., must be punished with death, whatever their creed or race.

A bit severe, but he was definitely for law and order (as he saw it).

19. We demand that Roman Law, which serves a materialistic world order, be replaced by a German common law.

Good, we work under common law too.

20. The State must consider a thorough reconstruction of our national system of education (with the aim of opening up to every able and hard-working German the possibility of higher education and of thus obtaining advancement). The curricula of all educational establishments must be brought into line with the requirements of practical life. The aim of the school must be to give the pupil, beginning with the first sign of intelligence, a grasp of the nation of the State (through the study of civic affairs). We demand the education of gifted children of poor parents, whatever their class or occupation, at the expense of the State.

Education is important, good, but with indoctrination. Although free at tax expense is going socialist.

21. The State must ensure that the nation's health standards are raised by protecting mothers and infants, by prohibiting child labor, by promoting physical strength through legislation providing for compulsory gymnastics and sports, and by the extensive support of clubs engaged in the physical training of youth.

Except for the compulsory part, physical health is good, but this was in line with his creating a superior race thing.

22. We demand the abolition of the mercenary army and the foundation of a people's army.

Defeinitely a good idea.

23. We demand legal warfare on deliberate political mendacity and its dissemination in the press. To facilitate the creation of a German national press we demand:

What follows is the standard press controls you find in any communist state. Bad idea. Except the part about preventing foreign control of German newspapers has some merit.

24. We demand freedom for all religious denominations in the State, provided they do not threaten its existence not offend the moral feelings of the German race. The Party, as such, stands for positive Christianity, but does not commit itself to any particular denomination. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit within and without us, and is convinced that our nation can achieve permanent health only from within on the basis of the principle: The common interest before self-interest.

Whoah, I thought everybody said the Nazis were godless! And here is pro-Christianity built right into their programme. But notice they are pro-Christian, but only so long as no church threatens the state. That's communist.

25. To put the whole of this programme into effect, we demand the creation of a strong central state power for the Reich; the unconditional authority of the political central Parliament over the entire Reich and its organizations; and the formation of Corporations based on estate and occupation for the purpose of carrying out the general legislation passed by the Reich in the various German states.

Standard tool of fascist or communists states.

So you see in the end the NSDAP was a nice mix of a totalitarian nationalist state with a whole bunch of socialism thrown in, and a bit of religion as well.

44 posted on 05/27/2004 8:22:13 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: RedBloodedAmerican

Bookmarked and bumped for future reading.


45 posted on 05/27/2004 8:44:12 AM PDT by TBarnett34 (Go home, Cynthia McKinney!)
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To: RedBloodedAmerican

good read...


47 posted on 05/27/2004 9:42:04 AM PDT by jcb8199
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To: RedBloodedAmerican

The ghost of Hitler talks to Hillary disguesed as Eleanor Roosevelt.


48 posted on 05/27/2004 9:42:58 AM PDT by SpinyNorman (Kerry: the only man that can look like the front end of a horse while acting like the back end.)
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To: RedBloodedAmerican

Hitler a socialist? Who knew? This will be a major news item, I bet! Or oughta be! That makes all the difference in the world. Say goodbye to socialism in Sweden, North Korea and all those other places that never ever suspected this. Wow!


49 posted on 05/27/2004 9:45:08 AM PDT by Revolting cat! ("In the end, nothing explains anything!")
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To: RedBloodedAmerican; ECM; Enterprise; CrazyIvan; randog; COEXERJ145; Old Sarge; sergeantdave; ...
Here's a good thumbnail synopsis (I picked this up off the Web some time ago):

If a leader were to arise -- a man who was a vegetarian; a radical environmentalist; a tea-drinking, nature worshiping, anti-smoking fanatic; a socialist; a proponent of abortion and of medical research utilizing fetal tissue; a man who would outlaw speech and ideas that he didn't approve of; an animal rights activist; a controversial artist and writer; a pagan who's harshest rhetoric was directed against Jews and Christians -- he could rise quickly to the leadership of the Green Party. Indeed, such a man would find few critics among Democrats, and would be welcomed by the faculty of most colleges. Such a man did once exist, and did become the leader of a modern nation only a few decades ago. That man was Adolph Hitler.

51 posted on 05/27/2004 11:05:49 AM PDT by SpyGuy
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To: RedBloodedAmerican

Theres no doubt that the Nazi Party was obviously very socialist during its growth in the 20's and early 30's. However, after coming to power, Hitler didn't want to upset the Conservative military and economic leaders of Germany. So this forced him to make the Nazis less socialist, hence the dissolving of the SA.


58 posted on 05/27/2004 1:14:38 PM PDT by Democratshavenobrains
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To: RedBloodedAmerican

Thank you for posting this. Bookmarked for future reference.


61 posted on 05/27/2004 3:53:59 PM PDT by adaven
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To: RedBloodedAmerican

Nice post!


66 posted on 06/01/2004 7:57:16 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: RedBloodedAmerican

Hitler is dead. All that stuff died with him.


68 posted on 06/01/2004 10:13:38 AM PDT by RightWhale (Theorems link concepts; proofs establish links)
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To: Michael81Dus

Ping to an article regarding our conversations on Left vs. Right.


71 posted on 06/01/2004 1:09:43 PM PDT by An.American.Expatriate (A vote for JF'nK is a vote for Peace in our Time!)
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bttt


74 posted on 07/22/2004 6:53:39 PM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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