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Islamís Nazi Connections
FrontPageMagazine.com ^ | December 5, 2002 | Serge Trifkovic

Posted on 05/30/2004 12:16:34 AM PDT by Remember_Salamis

Islam’s Nazi Connections By Serge Trifkovic FrontPageMagazine.com | December 5, 2002

An essay adapted by Robert Locke from Dr. Serge Trifkovic’s new book The Sword of the Prophet: A Politically-Incorrect Guide to Islam.

One of the good things one can truthfully say about Islam is that there has never been any love lost between Moslems and Marxists. Sadly, the opposite end of the totalitarian political spectrum is quite another matter. SS chief Heinrich Himmler was known to remark that he regretted that Germany had adopted Christianity, rather than "warlike" Islam, as its religion, and there is a disturbing amount of twisted but very real logic in his remark. Beyond the obvious dislike of a certain other religion, we have the plain fact that both Nazism and Islam both openly aim at world conquest. Both demand the total subordination of the free will of the individual – the very word "Islam" means submission in Arabic. Both are explicitly anti-nationalist and believe in the liquidation of the nation-state in favor of a "higher" community: in Islam the umma or community of all believers; in Nazism the herrenvolk or master race. Both believe in undemocratic leadership by a privileged knower of an absolute, eternal, and ultimately mystical truth: the caliph or führer respectively. To be fair, in strict Nazism Arabs are racial Semites and thus subhumans, but as Robert Locke has written, the Nazis did not really believe in their racial mythology when they found it inconvenient, and they exploited their commonalities with Islam for all they were worth. If the British army had not stopped Rommel in the sands of El Alamein in 1942, preventing him from conquering the Middle East, the consequences for world history might have been dramatic. What did happen was quite ugly enough.

The Nazis began by attempting to exploit Arab resentment of the British and French colonial rule that they were under during the 1930’s, colonial rule which, in light of the subsequent bloody and tyrannical history of the region, it is hard to condemn today as worse than the likely alternative. The promised the Arabs "liberation" from the French and British, a promise which the naïve Arabs, not grasping the character of a Nazi regime that would likely have reduced them to slaves in its own empire, took at face value. This gave rise to a curious Arab ditty rendered in English thus:

"No more monsieur,

No more mister.

In heaven Allah,

On earth Hitler."

Hitler himself was even given an Arabic name: Abu Ali. But Hitler’s Germany went further and sensed the demonic potentialities inherent in the mythology, reliably emotionally satisfying to persons crazed with resentment, of radical anti-Semitism. It made a concerted, and remarkably successful effort to plant modern anti-Semitism in the Arab world.

The founding of Israel helped further this project. As Bernard Lewis has written,

"The struggle for Palestine greatly facilitated the acceptance of the anti-Semitic interpretation of history, and led some to attribute all evil in the Middle East—and, indeed, in the world—to secret Jewish plots."

Thus even before Israel was created the struggle to create it was turned into an existential battle of identity, with the complete denial of the legitimacy of Jewish existence as a central component of Moslem aspiration.

The Nazis managed to recruit some Moslems directly. Several Moslem SS divisions were raised: the Skanderbeg Division from Albania, the Handschar Division from Bosnia, and smaller units from throughout the Moslem world from Chechnya to Uzbekistan were incorporated into the German armed forces in one capacity or another. This was only taking the first step in Heinrich Himmler’s planned grand alliance between Nazi Germany and the Islamic world. One of his closest aides, Obergruppenführer Gottlob Berger, boasted that

"a link is created between Islam and National-Socialism on an open, honest basis. It will be directed in terms of blood and race from the North, and in the ideological-spiritual sphere from the East."

What an image: a Nazi-Moslem alliance to conquer the world! Naturally, totalitarian ideology (as shown by the Sino-Soviet and Iran-Taliban splits, for example) is a notoriously weak glue, so it is questionable how far this could have prospered. But the thought is chilling enough.

Major Nazi sympathizers of this era include Ahmed Shukairi, the first chairman of the PLO; Gamal Abdel Nasser and Anwar Sadat, future presidents of Egypt; and the founders of the Pan-Arab socialist Ba' ath party, currently ruling Syria and Iraq. One Ba'ath leader has since recalled of this time:

"We were racists, admiring Nazism, reading their books and sources of their thought. We were the first who thought of translating Mein Kampf."

Many of the Nazi sympathizers of this era have never repudiated their beliefs; some still openly parade them.

In 1945, one name was missing from the Allies’ list of war criminals, that of Haj Mohammed Amin al-Husseini, the Mufti or supreme religious leader of Jerusalem and the former President of the Supreme Moslem Council of Palestine. In May 1941, the Mufti declared jihad against Britain and made his way to Berlin after the British put down his attempt to establish a pro-Nazi government in Iraq by a coup d’etat. When he met Hitler, on November 21, 1941, he declared that the Arabs are Germany’s natural friends, ready to cooperate with the Reich with all their hearts by the formation of an Arab Legion. Hitler promised that as soon as the German armies pushed into the Southern Caucasus the Arabs would be liberated from the British yoke. The Mufti’s part of the deal was to raise support for Germany among the Moslems in the Soviet Union, the Balkans and the Middle East. He conducted radio propaganda through the network of six stations, set up anti-British espionage and fifth column networks in the Middle East.

In the annual protest against the Balfour Declaration held in 1943 at the Luftwaffe hall in Berlin, the Mufti praised the Germans because they "know how to get rid of the Jews, and that brings us close to the Germans and sets us in their camp is that up to day." Echoing Muhammad after the battle of Badr, on March 1, 1944 the Mufti called in a broadcast from Berlin:

"Arabs! Rise as one and fight for your sacred rights. Kill the Jews wherever you find them. This pleases God, history, and religion. This saves your honor."

In 1941, he had pledged "to solve the question of the Jewish elements in Palestine and in other Arab countries as required by national interests, and in the same way as the Jewish question in the Axis lands is being solved." Bernard Lewis writes that in addition to the old goal of a Jew-free Arabia "he aimed at much vaster purposes, conceived not so much in pan-Arab as in pan-Islamic terms, for a Holy War of Islam in alliance with Germany against World Jewry, to accomplish the Final Solution of the Jewish problem everywhere."

According to German officials who knew him, The Mufti had repeatedly suggested to the various authorities with whom he was maintaining contact, above all to Hitler, Ribbentrop and Himmler, the extermination of European Jewry. He considered this as a comfortable solution of the Palestinian problem. Perhaps "the Nazis needed no persuasion or instigation," as he was later to claim, but the foremost Arab spiritual leader of his time did all he could to ensure that the Germans did not waver in their resolve. He went out of his way to prevent any Jews being allowed to leave Hungary, Romania, and Bulgaria, which were initially willing to let them go: "The Mufti was making protests everywhere — in the Office of the (Foreign) Minister, in the antechamber of the Secretary of State, and in other departments, such as Home Office, Press, Radio, and in the SS headquarters." In the end, Eichmann said, "We have promised him that no European Jew would enter Palestine any more."

The contemporary heirs to the Nazi view of Judentum are not the handful of powerless skinheads and Aryan Nation survivalists. They are schools, religious leaders, and mainstream intellectuals in the Moslem, meaning primarily Arab, world. Quite apart from the ups and downs of the misnamed "peace process" in the Middle East, quite apart from the more or less bellicose posture towards the government of Israel, the crude way they actively demonize all Jews as such is startling.

The most prominent and influential daily newspaper in the Arab world is Al-Ahram, a semi-official organ of the Egyptian government. In June 2001 it carried an op-ed article, "What exactly do the Jews want?"--and the answer was worthy of the Nazi newspaper the Völkische Beobachter six decades earlier:

"The Jews share boundless hatred of the gentiles, they kill women and children and sow destruction… Israel is today populated by people who are not descendants of the Children of Israel, but rather a mixture of slaves, Aryans and the remnants of the Khazars, and they are not Semites. In other words, people without an identity, whose only purpose is blackmails, theft and control over property and land, with the assistance of the Western countries."

The second most influential Egyptian daily is Al-Akhbar, which went a step further on April 18, 2001: "Our thanks go the late Hitler who wrought, in advance, the vengeance of the Palestinians upon the most despicable villains on the face of the earth. However, we rebuke Hitler for the fact that the vengeance was insufficient."

It is hard to imagine hatred more vitriolic than that which reproaches the Nazis for not completing the Final Solution more thoroughly. What is remarkable is not that such sentiments exist, but that they are freely circulated in the mainstream media and internalized by the opinion-making elite throughout the Moslem world. In the same league, we find the claim that the Holocaust in fact never happened and that the Jews and Israelis are the real Nazis is regularly made. The Jewish-Nazi theme is a favorite of Arab caricaturists, some of whom use the swastika interchangeably with the Star of David, or juxtapose them. Graphic depiction of the Jews appear to have been lifted directly from the pages of the notorious old Nazi newspaper Der Stürmer (The Stormtroooper.)

A final tidbit: it is no accident that a number of Nazi war criminals found refuge in Moslem nations. Take the notorious Otto Skorzeny, an SS officer who led the rescue of Mussolini from captivity, was described by the OSS, predecessor to the CIA, as "the most dangerous man in Europe," and later found service under General Nasser in Egypt. There were others.

Thankfully, the Nazis of course lost WWII and the abortive alliance between Islam and Nazism never panned out. Sadly, there exist Moslems today, not on the fringes but in the mainstream of their nations, who still view this as a great lost opportunity based on profound natural affinities.


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KEYWORDS: islam; jewish; muslim; nazi; naziislam; vkpac; wwii; zotinside
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1 posted on 05/30/2004 12:16:35 AM PDT by Remember_Salamis
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To: Remember_Salamis

Bttt


2 posted on 05/30/2004 12:19:08 AM PDT by lainde (Heads up...We're coming and we've got tongue blades...And panties!)
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To: Remember_Salamis

bump


3 posted on 05/30/2004 5:13:06 AM PDT by Dustbunny
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To: Remember_Salamis; All
 
-Islam, a Religion of Peace®? Some links...--

4 posted on 05/30/2004 5:18:46 AM PDT by backhoe (--30--)
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To: sauropod

read later


5 posted on 05/30/2004 5:28:06 AM PDT by sauropod (Paleo-cons make better lovers)
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To: sauropod

bump


6 posted on 05/30/2004 6:15:53 AM PDT by foreverfree
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To: Remember_Salamis; SJackson; dennisw; veronica

<< One of the .... things one can ....say about islam is that there has never been any love lost between moslems and marxists. Sadly, the opposite end of the totalitarian political spectrum is quite another matter. >>

There is no "opposite end of the totalitarian political spectrum."

Herr Hitler's National Socialist Workers Party, Ted Kennedy's' Nancy Peolosi's and John Fonda Kohnkerry's socialist "Democrats," Harry Lee's "peoples' action" potty, mad murdering Mao Tze Tung's malignant mob -- and Pol Pot's pack of people piling putrid corpses all occupy the political spectrum's lunatic left wing fringe.

As do such of their evil associates as the cowardly, pack-hunting and anonymously-murdering, bank-robbing, drug and gun running gangster bastards that so grandiosely self-style themselves the "i r a."

And to suggest -- as this writer manages -- that the death-and-destruction-worshipping, pagan-heathen/panthiest false-prophet-following Hitler/Himmler National socialist workers party's Germany was and/or is "Christian" is to understand neither Christianity nor the manifestation of evil that was and is naziism in any of its forms -- islamic or socialistic.


7 posted on 05/30/2004 6:54:14 AM PDT by Brian Allen (Per Adua Ad Astra!)
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To: Remember_Salamis

Abu Adolf bump!


8 posted on 05/30/2004 6:57:17 AM PDT by dennisw ("Allah FUBAR!")
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To: Brian Allen

I totally agree. Far Right is used because Nazis are commonly percieved to be of the right, which is false.

Regarding christianity, the author said nothing of "Nazism's christianity", but of the German people's christianity. In fact, the author mentions comments made by high-ranking nazis that they wished Germany WAS Islamic because they're so "warlike". The author acknowledges that the Nazi regime was establishing a pseudoreligion based on paganism mixed with a personality cult built around Hitler (a personality cult is the trademark of left-wing totalitarians)


9 posted on 05/30/2004 7:01:54 AM PDT by Remember_Salamis (Freedom is Not Free)
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To: Remember_Salamis

I agree. Many people think we're fighting the last battle of the Gulf War of 1991. I think we're fighting the last battle against totalitarianism (including fascism and communism).


10 posted on 05/30/2004 7:50:42 AM PDT by Piranha
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To: Remember_Salamis

Then you really need to check out the BUSH history. You would be happy to find out that Grandpa Bush had more ties with the Nazi then any Muslim anything. BUT I BET YOU KNEW THAT.

http://www.lpdallas.org/features/draheim/dr991216.htm

Check this site or go to any search engine and type BUSH IN NAZI GERMANY and tell me what you get.
That is all Good Day.


11 posted on 05/30/2004 8:05:47 AM PDT by thewonder (Yes a man not a god)
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To: thewonder

"President Bush owes his family inheritance to Adolf Hitler, and his grandfather, Prescott Bush, helped finance the Nazi rise to power in Germany. These stories had circulated for years but resurfaced on May 13, 2003, in the Cuban Communist Party newspaper Granma, headlined, "Bush Family Funded Adolf Hitler." As the Associated Press reports, Prescott had been on the board of Union Banking Corp., whose majority owner, the Thyssen family of Germany, indeed had funded the Nazis against a feared communist takeover of Germany in the 1920s and 1930s. Family leader Fritz Thyssen broke with Hitler over the 1938 Kristallnacht pogrom against the Jews, was stripped of his citizenship and fortune, and was in a Nazi prison at the time the elder Bush sat on that board. There is no evidence that Prescott Bush, who owned just one share of Union Banking, had anything to do with the Thyssen political work in Germany.

Some critics go even further to accuse the president of having inherited ill-gotten profits from a Nazi slave-labor operation near the Auschwitz death camp in Poland. But the Polish company in which Prescott Bush had an interest, Silesian-American Corp., was stolen by the Nazis in 1939, the year before Auschwitz was built. Discussing this controversy, columnist Joe Conason of the New York Observer writes, "Henry Ford was a Nazi collaborator. Joseph P. Kennedy Sr. was a Nazi sympathizer. Unless additional information emerges to indict him, Prescott Bush Sr. was neither. To misuse such terms for political advantage against his grandson is to trivialize very grave offenses.""


12 posted on 05/30/2004 8:24:34 AM PDT by Remember_Salamis (Freedom is Not Free)
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To: Remember_Salamis

I just wish everyone would give the Nazi connection to everything they disagree with a rest.


13 posted on 05/30/2004 8:35:25 AM PDT by tbeatty (On ANWR: "Why should I care about a Caribou I'm never gonna eat?")
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To: thewonder
Hi-ya TROLL!

I think you have an appointment with the Viking Kitties - don't be late, that only gets them madder.


ZOT!!!

Have fun back at the DU

14 posted on 05/30/2004 8:35:38 AM PDT by Condor51 (Leftists Are Moral and Intellectual Parasites)
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To: Remember_Salamis
One of the good things one can truthfully say about Islam is that there has never been any love lost between Moslems and Marxists.

Not exactly true. The muslim terrorist group known as "the palestinians" has always had close and intimate ties with various marxist groups, as well as ties to Hitler.

15 posted on 05/30/2004 8:42:40 AM PDT by DonaldDuke
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To: tbeatty
I just wish everyone would give the Nazi connection to everything they disagree with a rest.

Shut up about the facts, you mean?

Or are you possibly ignorant of the historical connections between islam and nazism? Including the Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini's participation in the Wannsee conference and the crafting of "the final solution"?

16 posted on 05/30/2004 8:49:29 AM PDT by DonaldDuke
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To: thewonder

TROLL


17 posted on 05/30/2004 8:49:40 AM PDT by WhirlwindAttack (could we just make iraq into a huge gas station?)
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To: Remember_Salamis; All
I'm sure he is aware of currency speculator and Leftist financier George Soros' father's status as an "Honorary Aryan" in the Third Reich. It wasn't often Hungarian Jews went on holiday in Berlin under Hitler's regime.
I wonder if he was aware or even cares Mr. Soros is a supporter of NAFTA and FTAA. Soros is against Bush for financial gain.
More Info
18 posted on 05/30/2004 9:09:08 AM PDT by olde north church (compensation is a female canine)
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To: Remember_Salamis

http://www.prophetofdoom.net

CHAPTER 16


MEIN KAMPF

Online Version


19 posted on 05/30/2004 12:39:01 PM PDT by ATOMIC_PUNK (Let your opponent point to you the way to overcome him.)
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To: ATOMIC_PUNK
We've got our own Nurenburg in our backyard, A_Punk: Islamic Center of Greater Cincinnati.
20 posted on 05/30/2004 12:44:43 PM PDT by Zuben Elgenubi
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To: Remember_Salamis

related topic:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/1144829/posts?page=1
"A serious question: Is Islam illegal in the US (or in some areas in the US)?"(vanity)


21 posted on 05/30/2004 1:19:08 PM PDT by King Prout (the difference between "trained intellect" and "indoctrinated intellectual" is an Abyssal gulf)
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To: thewonder; MeekOneGOP; 4mycountry; mhking; jriemer; onyx; cyborg; tiamat; MEG33
the wonder,

VKS:

dinner-time!

22 posted on 05/30/2004 1:27:27 PM PDT by King Prout (the difference between "trained intellect" and "indoctrinated intellectual" is an Abyssal gulf)
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To: thewonder

be gone enema bag


23 posted on 05/30/2004 1:28:23 PM PDT by cyborg
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To: WhirlwindAttack; Condor51

y'all spotted it, so this troll shall go to your credit when we tire of batting it around and request a ZOT! from the Almighty Mods.


24 posted on 05/30/2004 1:28:53 PM PDT by King Prout (the difference between "trained intellect" and "indoctrinated intellectual" is an Abyssal gulf)
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To: King Prout

That's a cute cat.

Yours?


25 posted on 05/30/2004 1:30:28 PM PDT by tiamat ("Just a Bronze-Age Gal, Trapped in a Techno-World!")
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To: tiamat

yep. Jones T. Cat.
15lbs of bizarre furry son.


26 posted on 05/30/2004 1:34:14 PM PDT by King Prout (the difference between "trained intellect" and "indoctrinated intellectual" is an Abyssal gulf)
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To: King Prout

He's sweet!


27 posted on 05/30/2004 1:39:07 PM PDT by tiamat ("Just a Bronze-Age Gal, Trapped in a Techno-World!")
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To: Remember_Salamis

Yeah, sounds about true. Big difference is that Islam really is a religion and Nazism was a made-up one.


28 posted on 05/30/2004 1:41:53 PM PDT by RightWhale (Theorems link concepts; proofs establish links)
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To: tiamat

yeah, he's a good kid.


29 posted on 05/30/2004 1:43:05 PM PDT by King Prout (the difference between "trained intellect" and "indoctrinated intellectual" is an Abyssal gulf)
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To: RightWhale

"Big difference is that Islam really is a religion and Nazism was a made-up one."

fast forward some 1000 years.
"Mein Kampf" has become the bible of a large organization of Nazis.
Is Nazism no longer "made-up"?
No? Ok...
Then why is the lunatic death-cult-cum-mafia designed by Mohammed a "real religion"?


30 posted on 05/30/2004 1:45:40 PM PDT by King Prout (the difference between "trained intellect" and "indoctrinated intellectual" is an Abyssal gulf)
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To: thewonder
you really need to check out the BUSH history

I own Ford stock. Ford had contracts with Germany, he even had factories in Germany. You know where my sympathies must lie.

-abu Whali

31 posted on 05/30/2004 1:48:25 PM PDT by RightWhale (Theorems link concepts; proofs establish links)
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To: King Prout

They didn't make it. I'm kind of wondering what would have happened to them when abu Ali eventually died anyway since the whole scam was centered on him. Irreplaceable, and a good thing, too.


32 posted on 05/30/2004 1:53:33 PM PDT by RightWhale (Theorems link concepts; proofs establish links)
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To: RightWhale

He would have had successors, his Omars and Alis, just like Mo. So far as I can tell, Nazism and Islam are virtually identical in etiology.


33 posted on 05/30/2004 2:20:01 PM PDT by King Prout (the difference between "trained intellect" and "indoctrinated intellectual" is an Abyssal gulf)
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To: DonaldDuke
No. Not ignorant. I just don't care. It was 60 years ago.

Keep in mind the allies of the German Nazis. The Russians, Japanese, Italians, etc etc. If your not willing to condemn Germany, Italy and Japan at this point, why would you try to connect Islam. It's a waste of time and it generates much more backlash than it moves the argument forward.

34 posted on 05/30/2004 2:38:37 PM PDT by tbeatty (On ANWR: "Why should I care about a Caribou I'm never gonna eat?")
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To: thewonder; King Prout
I think you need a little education concerning a ZOT.

Have a lightning-filled day. ZOT time!

35 posted on 05/30/2004 2:40:32 PM PDT by 4mycountry ("Completely concretely" - - That's "the power of the 'Freeper'.")
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To: 4mycountry

people aren't playing much of a game of tethertroll with this one (must be out and about on Sunday/Memorial Day stuff), figger it's time to call in the lightning?


36 posted on 05/30/2004 2:57:47 PM PDT by King Prout (the difference between "trained intellect" and "indoctrinated intellectual" is an Abyssal gulf)
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To: tbeatty
If your not willing to condemn Germany, Italy and Japan at this point, why would you try to connect Islam.

I am more than willing to condemn the recidivist leanings of today's Germany. They certainly exist, as does the Nazi leanings of France (which recently admitted to having tried to supply Saddam Hussein with nuclear weapons for use against Israel).

Islam does not deserve a free pass. There is an unbroken historical line from that mufti to current muslim policies to eradicate the Jews, and the muslims are the only people actually depraved enough to invoke Hitler's name as a blessing.

Maybe you should care a little more about history, before it repeats itself with you en route to an oven.

37 posted on 05/30/2004 3:02:56 PM PDT by DonaldDuke
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To: tbeatty

try this on for size:

get a copy of the Koran.
transcribe a section of its text onto your computer. just a few random paragraphs ought to be sufficient.
realize, since all pronouncements of Mohammed bear the seal of Allah's kiss and all pronouncements from Allah come out of Mohammed's mouth, that for all practical purposes Mohammed and Allah are one and the same. So, delete all iterations and variations of "Mohammed" and "Allah" from the text, replacing them with "the Leader".
With me so far? good.
Now, delete all the repetitive BS space-filler, the formalized nonsense of "peace be unto his name" et omnia generis alia. It holds no denotative value. It is just dross: scrap it.

Now, re-read the redacted text.

Ask yourself: What does this stuff sound most like.

For most of your possible randomly chosen passages, the answer is "the Nurnberg Rally"

Comparisons between Nazism and Islam are absolutely valid, as they are wake-up calls to the facts.


38 posted on 05/30/2004 3:05:06 PM PDT by King Prout (the difference between "trained intellect" and "indoctrinated intellectual" is an Abyssal gulf)
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To: DonaldDuke

well put!


39 posted on 05/30/2004 3:05:48 PM PDT by King Prout (the difference between "trained intellect" and "indoctrinated intellectual" is an Abyssal gulf)
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To: 4mycountry

nevermind #36 - it is dead.


40 posted on 05/30/2004 3:13:22 PM PDT by King Prout (the difference between "trained intellect" and "indoctrinated intellectual" is an Abyssal gulf)
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To: King Prout
The same argument can be made for the Apostles and the New Testament. Likewise, the books of the Old Testament are not written by God Himself.

Moreover, the Koran is a beautiful document. Claiming that the Islamofascists are the true bearers of Islam is like claiming that David Koresh or Jim Jones represented true Christianity.

The problem is Islamic civilization's failure to adjust to modernity, which is the product of historical and cultural processes, not its theology as such. If you mis-diagnose a disease, you will not know the appropriate cure. And this war is too important to base strategy on silly stereotypes.

41 posted on 05/30/2004 3:19:04 PM PDT by Seydlitz
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To: Remember_Salamis

Saying they had ties to hitler is like saying a Palestinian Christian has ties to hitler because he is selling cucumbers and paying taxes to the PLO.


42 posted on 05/30/2004 3:25:55 PM PDT by JudgemAll
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To: Remember_Salamis

I dont think FDR would have suffered a Bush family with ties to Hitler during the war. I think these were cutoff once it was officialy known that hitler was a scumbags.

The Bush never rooted for Hitler against America or freedom, let alone begged to them in any way.

But of course scumbags like to mess and to claim they beg less than the Bushs would do.


43 posted on 05/30/2004 3:28:05 PM PDT by JudgemAll
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To: Seydlitz
you are incorrect on all counts.

The same argument can be made for the Apostles and the New Testament. Likewise, the books of the Old Testament are not written by God Himself.

In the old testament, there are multiple prophets, messengers, and historical/mythological authority figures. In the New Testament, there is Jesus, the four cannonic Gospels of four separate disciples, various epistles from various authors, etc... In the Koran and Sunnah, there is ONLY Mohammed. HUGE difference, bud.
Moreover, while both the Old and New Testaments contain unpleasant stuff, they contain NOT ONE equivalent to the ongoing present-tense commandments from On High to temporally fight, slaughter, murder, subjugate, deceive, subvert, and enslave non-believers to be found in the hundredfold throughout all Islamic Writ.
Islam and Judeo-Christianity are NOT equatable.
DEAL WITH IT.

Moreover, the Koran is a beautiful document.

Irrelevant. The denotation is ugly, vicious, violent, implacable, and immutable. That the poetry in which it is couched is pleasing to the aesthetics of some people is utterly irrelevant to the survival of civilization from the cancer that poetry bears.
DEAL WITH IT.

Claiming that the Islamofascists are the true bearers of Islam is like claiming that David Koresh or Jim Jones represented true Christianity.

You miss the point. MOHAMMED HIMSELF sets himself up as both the original islamofascist AND sole true torchbearer of Islam. The central credo of Islam is as follows:
"There is no god but Allah, and Mohammed IS his prophet."
Present tense, ongoing, eternal, infallible, EXCLUSIVE, and ABSOLUTE.
Throughout the Koran and Sunnah are requirements for all who call themselves Muslim to submit to EVERYTHING Mohammed says, to emulate him in ALL ways.
Islamofascists ARE the only "true" Muslims. DEAL WITH IT.

The problem is Islamic civilization's failure to adjust to modernity, which is the product of historical and cultural processes, not its theology as such.

See above: the single greatest factor which has stymied their civilization's advancement out of the seventh century is the THEOLOGICAL PRECEPT that Mohammed is INFALLIBLE IN ALL THINGS, including his many societal pronouncements.
DEAL WITH IT.

And this war is too important to base strategy on silly stereotypes

And what if the "stereotypes" bear a significant resemblance to reality, hrmn?
They DO.
DEAL WITH IT.
Once you deal with all of the above, you might be able to see what is going on with eyes that have shed the scales leftist uberegalitarian nonsense have placed upon them.

At the moment, however, you are blind.
DEAL WITH IT.

Rest assured, if you do not, Islam's true sons WILL ASSUREDLY DEAL WITH YOU.

44 posted on 05/30/2004 3:46:02 PM PDT by King Prout (the difference between "trained intellect" and "indoctrinated intellectual" is an Abyssal gulf)
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To: Seydlitz

Yikes. Muhammad was not a holy man. Just read the Haddiths yourself and you will get sick to your stomach if you are a decent human being.

http://www.prophetofdoom.net/


Bukhari:V4B52N270 “Allah’s Messenger said, ‘Who is ready to kill Ashraf? He has said injurious things about Allah and His Apostle.’ Maslama got up saying, ‘Would you like me to kill him?’ The Prophet proclaimed, ‘Yes.’ Maslama said, ‘Then allow me to lie so that I will be able to deceive him.’ Muhammad said, ‘You may do so.’”

Tabari VIII:179 “Abdallah bin Sa’d fled to Uthman, his brother, who after hiding him, finally surrendered him to the Prophet. Uthman asked for clemency. Muhammad did not respond, remaining silent for a long time. Muhammad explained, ‘By Allah, I kept silent so that one of you might go up to him and cut off his head!’ One of the Ansar said, ‘Why didn’t you give me a sign?’ Allah’s Apostle replied, ‘A prophet does not kill by pointing.’”

Tabari VII:101 “The Khazraj asked the Prophet for permission to kill Sallam Huqayq, who was in Khaybar. He granted this.”

Tabari VII:112/Ishaq:372 “When a blind Jew became aware of the presence of the Messenger and the Muslims he rose and threw dust in their faces, saying, ‘Even if you are a prophet, I will not allow you into my garden!’ I was told that he took a handful of dirt and said, ‘If only I knew that I would not hit anyone else, Muhammad, I would throw it in your face.’ Sa’d rushed in and hit him on the head with his bow and split the Jew’s head open

It goes on and on and on ad nauseum.


45 posted on 05/30/2004 4:10:40 PM PDT by OK
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To: Seydlitz

Here are more spiritually inspirational verses:

Qur’an 8:12 “Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: ‘I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.”

Tabari VII:133/Ishaq:387 “When Muhammad saw Hamzah he said, ‘If Allah gives me victory over the Quraysh at any time, I shall mutilate thirty of their men!’ When the Muslims saw the rage of the Prophet they said, ‘By Allah, if we are victorious over them, we shall mutilate them in a way which no Arab has ever mutilated anybody.”

Tabari VIII:96 “A raiding party led by Zayd set out against Umm in Ramadan. During it, Umm suffered a cruel death. Zyad tied her legs with rope and then tied her between two camels until they split her in two. She was a very old woman. Then they brought Umm’s daughter and Abdallah to the Messenger. Umm’s daughter belonged to Salamah who had captured her. Muhammad asked Salamah for her, and Salamah gave her to him.”


46 posted on 05/30/2004 4:18:15 PM PDT by OK
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To: OK

ad nauseam et ad infinitum.


47 posted on 05/30/2004 4:23:25 PM PDT by King Prout (the difference between "trained intellect" and "indoctrinated intellectual" is an Abyssal gulf)
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To: Brian Allen
There is no "opposite end of the totalitarian political spectrum."

Thank you. I was going to post that, but you beat me to it. You are 100% right. I do not see a whole lot of difference between naziism, communism, and islamism.

48 posted on 05/30/2004 4:23:26 PM PDT by Mark17
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To: OK
The Old Testament is full of similar lines. Heck, I just opened it at random and what do I find? Deuteronomy 7:2 "And when the Lord your God delivers them into your power for you to defeat you must exterminate them." Flip a few more pages and one reads (in Numbers 25:4) "Take all the leaders of the people and hurl them down to their death before the Lord in the full light of day, that the fury of my anger may turn away from Israel."

The Bible is full of this stuff, and plenty of Crusades, Inquisitions and pogroms remind us that brutality and murder in the name of Christianity is in no short supply. Only willful ignorance could hold otherwise. Yet, Christianity is not a bloodthirsty religion. Allow me to suggest that the same is true of Islam. Selective quote picking from the Koran is pretty unconvincing in light of this reality.

49 posted on 05/30/2004 4:50:28 PM PDT by Seydlitz
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To: King Prout
So, let me see if I understand your "arguments".

1). Mohammed is bad and the Apostles are good because the Apostles out-number Mohammed. Ergo, if two or more people claim to be describing divine revelation, it must be true.

2). A document which contains exhortations to kill is bad, unless it is the Bible.

3). Mohammed is bad because he is Allah's prophet. Jesus is also considered to be a prophet to Islam, but one must ignore that fact and blame everything on Mohammed.

4). The failure of Islamic civilization comes from Mohammed's pronouncements in the 7th Century, A.D., even though Islamic civilization was one of the world's most progressive and modern until the 16th Century, A.D. It just took 900 years for the Muslims to actually obey Mohammed.

5). Stereotypes of Muslims are just fine, especially in the context of formulating national security policy (thinking takes effort, after all, so why waste energy?). Does your rule of stereotypes also apply to Jews and African-Americans?

6). Mohammed claiming infallibility is bad. The infallibility of the Pope is good.

7). People who have views somewhat different than yours are "blind".

Gee, I'm convinced.

50 posted on 05/30/2004 5:07:49 PM PDT by Seydlitz
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