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Mark Steyn: Time for some serious art about war
Chicago Sun-Times ^ | 06/06/04 | Mark Steyn

Posted on 06/05/2004 8:19:15 AM PDT by Pokey78

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To: Pokey78
It's not about economics, it's about the loss of that ''cultural confidence''

This is sad, and more than a bit frightening. When the majority the media do not believe we are the good guys, it becomes more difficult for the general public to remember that we are, in fact, the good guys.

41 posted on 06/05/2004 10:07:31 AM PDT by Friend of thunder (No sane person wants war, but oppressors want oppression.)
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To: daviddennis

Date conservatives.


42 posted on 06/05/2004 10:18:28 AM PDT by Max Combined
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To: Pokey78
I agree with him, however, I think that unlike WW II, surfeit is another bad art culprit. The period that preceeded WW II was a period of deprivation, and a pretty serious and long-lived one at that. That, in and of itself, paves the way for artistic expression in a way that surfeit probably never can. Goya's Colossus, not only symbolizes Spain's experience with War, it symbolizes the near absolute destruction of ordinary living that normally accompanies war. Iraqis, have a much better chance of proudcing great Art, then any of the people the Coalition Forces are acting in defense of.

Another problem with producing good Art, is that a lot of what needs saying has already been said many, many times. Sure, you can find myriad ways to express age-old themes, but who's really living the age-old themes? Who really would like them to be revived? Not near the majority, if you ask me.

The theme of love is virulently manifested in the inability of 1/2 of the population to stay true to their commitment, their word, and they don't want to have the theme of an all-enduring love brought back around, IMO; too much to think about, too much of an indictment against the call for them to live a life of abandon, be filled w/self-esteem, etc. This of course doesn't apply to the men and women who are divorced, but would have given everything to tough it out, if the other partner had been willing. Unfortunately, I don't think these people represent a large portion of that 1/2 of the population.

Maybe we produce bad art, because a whole lot of people don't really want it, they see it as harsh judgement.

43 posted on 06/05/2004 10:19:14 AM PDT by AlbionGirl
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To: ken5050

Pure grain alcohol and rainwater.


44 posted on 06/05/2004 10:23:31 AM PDT by atomicpossum (I give up! Entropy, you win!)
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To: Pokey78

Didn't the band Three Doors Down do a video featuring US servicemen and women for their song "Here Without You?"


45 posted on 06/05/2004 10:25:27 AM PDT by ryanjb2
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To: daviddennis
Thoughts?

Many. But it's your relationship, not mine. :-)

46 posted on 06/05/2004 10:25:38 AM PDT by atomicpossum (I give up! Entropy, you win!)
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To: Shooter 2.5
Well, yes and no. There were some great songs out of World War II. Fantastic songs. The only problem is if we watch a current movie depicting that era, the only song that's played is "In the Mood". I like the song but you would think it was the only one that was ever composed from the years 1940-45.

And if there was a song from The War, it was "I'll be seeing you."

Like everybody who wasn't gimpy, Johnny Carson served. His last week on the air, he put on some amazing shows. One night, Bette Midler performed not one, not two, but four songs, accompanied by some comely ladies in mermaid suits. I always forget one, but I recall "Miss Oda Regrets," "One for My Baby," and in closing, "Here's That Rainy Day." I could have sworn I saw Johnny wipe away a tear at the end of that song, but he did it in such a subtle way, I've never been absolutely certain.

The last night wasn't a normal show at all, but a camera following Johnny around for a typical day of producing the show. As far as I'm concerned, the penultimate show was his send-off. He had the surviving performers who had been his guests on his first show, in 1962 -- Mel Brooks and Tony Bennett. Bennett gave a beautiful, perfect rendition of "I'll be Seeing You," which was Carson's favorite song.

47 posted on 06/05/2004 10:27:13 AM PDT by mrustow
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To: Pokey78

Thanks, Pokey!


48 posted on 06/05/2004 10:32:50 AM PDT by UnklGene
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To: expatguy
http://www.lileks.com/bleats/

"ask and you shall receive"

49 posted on 06/05/2004 10:45:00 AM PDT by Countyline
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To: ken5050
... what does Steyn drink..Lawdy, I hope it ain't Molson's or Labatt's..my money's on Jamieson's....

If he's anything like me, he drinks whatever he fancies.

50 posted on 06/05/2004 10:51:41 AM PDT by Agnes Heep (Solus cum sola non cogitabuntur orare pater noster)
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To: Pokey78

Steyn is on target again. I refuse to listen to today's "popular culture". I'm listening to a compilation of Irving Berlin songs right now.


51 posted on 06/05/2004 10:55:49 AM PDT by earlyamerican
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To: Countyline

Thanks for the link - but it did not link to what I wanted to ready ie. what Steyn was refering to. It must be in the archives I guess ~ Do you know the name of it?


52 posted on 06/05/2004 11:02:52 AM PDT by expatguy (Fallujah Delenda Est!!)
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To: MEG33

Country sure is different from days of old. I recently discovered it via XM. I find much - not all - of it to affirm the values I believe in, and also to have a very high level of creative musicanship.


53 posted on 06/05/2004 11:17:09 AM PDT by Paul_B
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To: Pokey78

Thanks one more time for the unexcerpted Pokey Ping! Steyn for--well, for the highest office he qualifies for.


54 posted on 06/05/2004 12:01:04 PM PDT by Watery Tart (Hey, wait a minute! They ALL can’t be holy cities!)
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To: Pokey78
Not so long ago, Madonna knew her place. It was hanging naked over a wall with her bottom in the air and a German wolfhound giving her the come-hither look while a gay dance troupe cavorted in the background. See Page 67, if memory serves, of her 1992 picture book Sex. If only Madonna went to as much trouble to take a novel position when it comes to war.

Best. Column. Ever.

55 posted on 06/05/2004 12:40:02 PM PDT by RansomOttawa
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To: DUMBGRUNT

LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!


56 posted on 06/05/2004 12:45:27 PM PDT by alwaysconservative
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To: Gritty

I'm glad you were able to work MY favorite line into your tag! Steyn is brilliant, as always.


57 posted on 06/05/2004 12:51:10 PM PDT by alwaysconservative
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To: daviddennis

I have only seen the ads on TV, don't plan to see the movie, but would like to see your comments on the "flood" scenes. The twenty-story high waves coming around the corners of New York skyscrapers seemed eerily similar to the waves of smoke and debris that hit New Yorkers on Sep 11, 2001.

Since it is INNNSENNsitive to show video of the real 9/11,(At least that is what the controllers of TV-footage have told us!), I think this moviemaker is mocking Americans during these scenes. How did they affect you seeing it on a big screen?


58 posted on 06/05/2004 1:07:33 PM PDT by maica (Member of Republican Attack Machine, RAM, previously known as the VRWC)
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To: maica

Well, I have a strange way of looking at scenes like that - I was thinking about all the complex computer programming and design that went into trying to make the waves look authentic :-).

But one thing that struck me as odd was that no buildings collapsed. You would surely think that the kind of force represented by those waves would collapse a lot of buildings and turn NYC into a pancake. It's quite possible that the filmmakers consciously decided they didn't want to create another 9/11, but it's equally plausible that making the city a pancake would have so obviously killed everyone in the city, including our heroes, that it was just not viable as a plot device.

You might remember that the 1993 attack on the WTC was supposed to cause the tower to fall horizontally towards the other tower, destroying them both. This didn't happen, and in the case of 9/11, the two towers collapsed with remarkably little damage to the surrounding area. In the case of a giant tidal wave affecting New York, I can't see the buildings not collapsing into each other, in a remarkable echo of was was supposed to occur in the 1993 plot.

The point many reviewers made was that the people who died were like ants and props, and you really didn't feel anything for them. My opinion was identical to the reviewers. There's something ugly about such a huge desensitization of death.

In thinking about your question with the tidal waves being echoes of 9/11, I didn't think about it at the time, but there were some scenes that did look remarkably similar. That's only in reaction to your question, though. I was more involved in the moronic actions of the characters at that time than anything else. It's likely, though, that the events are not comparable because The Day After Tomorrow was made on such a grandiose scale - even the World Trade Centre towers are pretty small compared to having the whole island of Manhattan as your canvas.

The plot was so poorly thought out and riddled with inconsistencies as to make even the special effects feel oddly moot. If your suspension of belief doesn't work for the plot, the special effects are likewise diminished for you. At least that's how I saw the movie.

Did that help?

D


59 posted on 06/05/2004 1:41:16 PM PDT by daviddennis (;)
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To: Shooter 2.5
...There were some great songs out of World War II...

-I'll Walk Alone
-Bluebirds Over The White Cliffs Of Dover
-A Nightengale Sang In Barkley Square
-For All We Know (we will never meet again)
-Lili Marlane
-I'll Be Seeing You
-Making Believe (you're here in my arms)


Many, many others. Not to forget (Ve heil! heil! right) "In Der Fuhrer's Face."
60 posted on 06/05/2004 1:45:54 PM PDT by Pistol (Guns: Our nation's liberty teeth- G. Washington)
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