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P.J. O'Rourke: I Agree with Me When was the last time a conservative talk show changed a mind?
The Atlantic Monthly ^ | July/August 2004 | P.J. O'Rourke

Posted on 06/07/2004 5:50:22 PM PDT by quidnunc

Last year, on a long car trip, I was listening to Rush Limbaugh shout. I usually agree with Rush Limbaugh; therefore I usually don't listen to him. I listen to NPR: "World to end — poor and minorities hardest hit." I like to argue with the radio. Of course, if I had kept listening to Limbaugh, whose OxyContin addiction was about to be revealed, I could have argued with him about drugs. I don't think drugs are bad. I used to be a hippie. I think drugs are fun. Now I'm a conservative. I think fun is bad. I would agree all the more with Limbaugh if, after he returned from rehab, he'd shouted (as most Americans ought to), "I'm sorry I had fun! I promise not to have any more!"

Anyway, I couldn't get NPR on the car radio, so I was listening to Rush Limbaugh shout about Wesley Clark, who had just entered the Democratic presidential-primary race. Was Clark a stalking horse for Hillary Clinton?! Was Clark a DNC-sponsored Howard Dean spoiler?! "He's somebody's sock puppet!" Limbaugh bellowed. I agreed; but a thought began to form. Limbaugh wasn't shouting at Clark, who I doubt tunes in to AM talk radio the way I tune in to NPR. And "Shari Lewis and Lamb Chop!" was not a call calculated to lure Democratic voters to the Bush camp. Rush Limbaugh was shouting at me.

Me. I am a little to the right of … Why is the Attila comparison used? Fifth-century Hunnish depredations on the Roman Empire were the work of an overpowerful executive pursuing a policy of economic redistribution in an atmosphere of permissive social mores. I am a little to the right of Rush Limbaugh. I'm so conservative that I approve of San Francisco City Hall marriages, adoption by same-sex couples, and New Hampshire's recently ordained Episcopal bishop. Gays want to get married, have children, and go to church. Next they'll be advocating school vouchers, boycotting HBO, and voting Republican.

I suppose I should be arguing with my fellow right-wingers about that, and drugs, and many other things. But I won't be. Arguing, in the sense of attempting to convince others, has gone out of fashion with conservatives. The formats of their radio and television programs allow for little measured debate, and to the extent that evidence is marshaled to support conservative ideas, the tone is less trial of Socrates than Johnnie Cochran summation to the O.J. jury. Except the jury — with a clever marketing strategy — has been rigged. I wonder, when was the last time a conservative talk show changed a mind?

This is an argument I have with my father-in-law, an avid fan of such programs. Although again, I don't actually argue, because I usually agree with my father-in-law. Also, he's a retired FBI agent, and at seventy-eight is still a licensed private investigator with a concealed-weapon permit. But I say to him, "What do you get out of these shows? You already agree with everything they say."

"They bring up some good points," he says.

"That you're going to use on whom? Do some of your retired-FBI-agent golf buddies feel shocked by the absence of WMDs in Iraq and want to give Saddam Hussein a mulligan and let him take his tee shot over?"

-snip-

(Excerpt) Read more at theatlantic.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Extended News; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: pjorourke; rush; talkradio
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1 posted on 06/07/2004 5:50:24 PM PDT by quidnunc
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To: quidnunc
Not one of PJ's pieces. And, many people have listened to Limbaugh to see what evil stuff he had to say, and have come away changed in their political outlook.

Plus, I do't listen to talk radio for arguing. I look for different takes and tidbits about the news, plus some humor.

2 posted on 06/07/2004 5:58:37 PM PDT by Miss Marple
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To: Miss Marple
I should say, not one of P.J.'s better pieces.
3 posted on 06/07/2004 5:59:30 PM PDT by Miss Marple
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To: Miss Marple

I was a young skull of mush. You can credit Rush for changing my political outlook fresh out of college.


4 posted on 06/07/2004 6:02:16 PM PDT by jbstrick (War is not fought for peace. War is fought for victory.)
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To: quidnunc
PJ's slipping. This one's only mildly funny, and that's being generous.

On the serious side, after 9/11 I've heard many callers to talk radio shows in the NYC area say they used to be FM vegheads, but discovered talk radio on that terrible day, since that was the best place to get news.

These callers invariably tell the conservative hosts they've been converted -- usually from vaguely liberal apathy to conservativism. How statistically significant this phenomenon is, I don't know.

5 posted on 06/07/2004 6:04:26 PM PDT by shhrubbery!
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To: quidnunc

Rush is the only really good conservative radio host IMO, and the fact is the mainstream media is so liberal, that for for me, turning to Rush is a comfort, because he articulates how I feel and think about events, much better and with deeper insight that I can muster. It's not about agreeing, per se, it's about framing the issues and putting them in perspective in the unique and entertaining way that he does.


6 posted on 06/07/2004 6:06:08 PM PDT by veronica (Viva la Reagan revolution...)
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To: quidnunc
"They bring up some good points," he says.

"That you're going to use on whom?..."

A co-worker was going on a few months ago about how the rich don't "pay their fair share". I went to Rush's website and found a link to the IRS website that has a breakdown of just how much everyone pays. I showed my co-worker that, for starters, his government considers him to be "rich" and that he and a lot of people like him pay the majority of taxes.

He was stunned. At first he questioned the validity of the data, but I pointed out that it was compiled by the IRS.

About a month later I overheard him ranting about how he and everyone like him pay all the taxes. It's Reaganomics (trickle-down theory) and it works.

7 posted on 06/07/2004 6:07:45 PM PDT by randog (Everything works great 'til the current flows.)
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To: quidnunc

My favorite (apochryphal, and severely edited) PJ quote:

"When they put FDR on postage stamps, my mother and her frinds said they didn't know which side to spit on."


8 posted on 06/07/2004 6:08:18 PM PDT by Felis_irritable
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To: quidnunc
...I'm so conservative that I approve of San Francisco City Hall marriages, adoption by same-sex couples, and New Hampshire's recently ordained Episcopal bishop. Gays want to get married, have children, and go to church....

Please, don't be so stupid. The Homosexuals and the Liberals want to destroy the institutions that they perceive do them harm. Of course the Liberals give a damn about the homosexuals, but they have a common foe.

Yea, the queers need to get a marriage license so they can seeing their dying lover in the hospital. Please.
9 posted on 06/07/2004 6:09:27 PM PDT by Joe_October (Saddam supported Terrorists. Al Qaeda are Terrorists. I can't find the link.)
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To: quidnunc

He's right. Not only are they shouting, they've already said whatever they're about to say. I can't handle them anymore. No mas..., no mas!!!!


10 posted on 06/07/2004 6:10:04 PM PDT by AlbionGirl
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To: quidnunc

And, as Rush often says, we turn to him BECAUSE he confirms the conclusions we come to, and since so much of the rest of the world is swallowing the NY Times BS, we are like a special club. We see the truth the liberal BS tries to obscure.


11 posted on 06/07/2004 6:10:36 PM PDT by veronica (Viva la Reagan revolution...)
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To: veronica

There are many great talk show hosts. I love Dennis Prager, Larry Elder and Hugh Hewitt. I also listen to John & Ken on a regular basis. I do not usually listen to Rush because I can only take him in small doses.


12 posted on 06/07/2004 6:13:59 PM PDT by Feiny (Hail to the Chief!!!)
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Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: jbstrick

rush changed my life...still does. he is bright, funny and incisive. and he gave me the courage to speak my mind, unafraid.


14 posted on 06/07/2004 6:16:26 PM PDT by wildwood
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To: Miss Marple

Let's see, pubbies have control of the House, Senate and Presidency, plus the majority of governorships. Obviously, something is happening. I think the point O'Rourke misses (although I admittedly didn't read the whole article) is that in addition to conservatives moderates and people new to politics tune in to Rush and are influenced by his ideas.


15 posted on 06/07/2004 6:18:37 PM PDT by KevinB
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To: veronica

Have you heard Laura Ingraham? I like her show a lot.


16 posted on 06/07/2004 6:18:52 PM PDT by stop_fascism
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To: veronica
.."turning to Rush is a comfort, because he articulates how I feel and think about events, much better and with deeper insight that I can muster".

This is the best answer anyone could ever come up with about the Rush revolution.

I just showed this to my wife who is always asking me: "WHY DO YOU HAVE TO LISTEN TO THAT SHOW EVERY DAY"?

"OH" she said. But WHO is Veronica?

17 posted on 06/07/2004 6:19:38 PM PDT by JOE6PAK ("The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein)
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To: stop_fascism
The Laura Ingraham show is great! She is a Q-T also!


18 posted on 06/07/2004 6:24:24 PM PDT by JOE6PAK ("The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein)
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To: quidnunc
When was the last time a conservative talk show changed a mind?

This is a cheapshot of a title. Later in the article, PJ asks the same of lefty hacks such as Michael Moore and Al Franken. A fairer title would be: When was the last time a screaming face changed a mind?

19 posted on 06/07/2004 6:26:06 PM PDT by Vision Thing (If you neglect to study Reagan, you'll never understand America.)
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To: quidnunc
I voted for Clinton in 96.

In 97 and 98 I worked out of the home and started listening to talk radio.

I am a conservative today because of listening to Dennis Prager, Mike Reagan and David Gold.

If Jesus Christ returns to Earth and runs for President, he better run as a Republican because I'll vote against him if he runs as a Dem.

Intelligent radio, like an astute author, can crystallize the thought process:  perhaps you have a feeling about something that you can't name and suddenly some talk show host verbalizes that very thought you've struggled with - and then all the little pieces fit together in your mind.

You'll take that knowledge into the world:  even if you don't ever verbalize the thought in an argument, it will make you a stronger, and hopefully better, person.

I haven't read this author before.  Is he always this stupid?

20 posted on 06/07/2004 6:26:10 PM PDT by Psycho_Bunny
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