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Publisher Pulls Books From Amazon.com In Protest "Understanding Loved Boys and Boylovers"
KIRO ^

Posted on 06/09/2004 7:07:14 AM PDT by esryle

SEATTLE -- A controversial book has one local publisher pulling his books off the Internet giant Amazon.com.

Larry Reynolds, a Shoreline publisher of recreational boating guides, wants Amazon.com to stop selling a book called "Understanding Loved Boys and Boylovers," which he says promotes relationships between grown men and young boys.

"A lot of people out there just aren't aware that Amazon is doing it," he said.

For the past year, Reynolds has written numerous letters to the Internet company to try and convince it to drop the title.

When the company refused to budge, Reynolds pulled his company's books off Amazon.com.

He also spent $1,600 to take out large ads in the Seattle Times and Seattle Post-Intelligencer criticizing Amazon.com.

"They have to make better choices then they are making now," Reynolds said.

An Amazon.com spokesperson told KIRO 7 "Our goal is to support freedom of expression and to provide customers with the broadest selection possible. We believe it is censorship to not carry a book in our catalog simply because we find its message repugnant."

Reynolds, who is a former college English professor, understands the irony of a publisher asking to ban a book.

"But censorship stops when it start hurting somebody in very demonstrative ways and in my mind pedophilism is one of those cases."


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events; US: Washington
KEYWORDS: amazon; amazondotcom; boycott; boycottamazon; chickenhawks; childmolestation; comeforyourchildren; homosexualagenda; indoctrination; itsjustsex; nambla; prisoners; seduction; sex; statutoryrape

www.esryle.com
1 posted on 06/09/2004 7:07:14 AM PDT by esryle
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To: esryle

I've stopped buying at amazon. Seems they are way over the line, even for liberals.


2 posted on 06/09/2004 7:11:26 AM PDT by sarasota
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To: esryle

Good for Mr. Reynolds. If there were more like him maybe Amazon and some of the others who support this perversion would start to get the idea. Let'em parrot the censorship line all they want, hit them where it hurts.


3 posted on 06/09/2004 7:13:19 AM PDT by bereanway
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To: esryle
As Rush has pointed out, only the government can censor. Corporations make ethical choices daily. I would hope that Amazon.com would do the right thing in determining what is appropriate to sell.

Here is a link to the Amazon.com listing.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0967699703/qid=1086791165/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-4318246-6415816?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Editorial Reviews
Amazon.com
Is there such a thing as a legitimate sexual relationship between an adult male and an underage boy? Most civilized people would answer emphatically "no," and Understanding Loved Boys and Boylovers won't convince them otherwise. Defensive in tone and amateurishly produced, this monograph uses both pseudo-scholarship and anecdotes in its attempt to justify its target audience's actions and feelings. --Christopher Hart

Book Description submitted by the publisher SafeHaven:

Many researchers is the fields of Psychology and Human Sexuality have been taking a fresh look at the "conventional" wisdom which has been the basis for evaluation of intergenerational male/male sexual activities. The long assumed "harm" of such activities has failed to be supported by research, and the sociocultural "wrongness" based on this "harm" is therefore left without any rational basis. An extremely thorough and exhaustive paper, "A Meta-Analytic Examination of Assumed Properties of Child Sexual Abuse Using College Samples" was published in the July, 1998 Psychological Bulletin, the journal of the American Psychological Association. It brought forth howls of protest from right wing radicals all the way up to and including the United States House of Representatives, but after the furor subsided, the paper, having been subjected to intensive examination at every level, has been judged to be true, accurate and objective science.
Previous to this, a collection of papers by such authors as Bullough, Bernard, Schild, Warren, Bauserman, et al., was published as "Dares to Speak", edited by Joseph Geraci. Before that there was "Male Intergenerational Intimacy" by Brongersma. Both of these volumes are currently in print, and are available.

The above mentioned paper and books are intended primarily for researchers, educators, and other people knowledgeable in these areas. Therefore, I have authored a "layman's" introductory volume, "Understanding Loved Boys and Boylovers", which essentially covers the same premises, data, and conclusions as the above, but which is written in mostly non technical language, with the average citizen in mind. This book, while certainly bound to be controversial, and which espouses certain changes in various laws, is carefully maintained within the limits of current laws, there is nothing in it which could possibly concern any postal inspector, or which could create any legal liability. SafeHaven Foundation Press
4 posted on 06/09/2004 7:31:49 AM PDT by wmichgrad
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To: esryle
An Amazon.com spokesperson told KIRO 7 "Our goal is to support freedom of expression and to provide customers with the broadest selection possible. We believe it is censorship to not carry a book in our catalog simply because we find its message repugnant."

Translation: We have sold our souls for the almighty dollar.
5 posted on 06/09/2004 7:34:56 AM PDT by wasp69 (Fair winds and following seas, Mr. President. We shall all see you soon.....)
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To: esryle

Now, if Amazon has policies in effect about not selling other types of legally written books, like "how to make a bomb" or something like that, then there's grounds of inconsistency. If they make a judgment about one type of book, they really don't have any reason NOT to make judgments about others. They're not in the BUSINESS of censorship or non-censorship. They sell stuff, and they can choose to sell whatever they want. Therefore, when they choose to sell a book like this, it means they approve of it.

Has Amazon ever dropped a book or product based on feedback or demands? Well, after heavy protests, they did in fact take off that Man/Boy "love" book from their site in 1999. So...protest away; meanwhile, take your business elsewhere.


6 posted on 06/09/2004 7:35:20 AM PDT by AmericanChef
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To: esryle

A man with courage. God bless Mr. Reynolds for taking this stand.


7 posted on 06/09/2004 7:42:19 AM PDT by King Black Robe
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To: sarasota
"I've stopped buying at amazon. Seems they are way over the line, even for liberals."

Same here, Once I checked on a Conservative book and it had a link to donate to the DNC to defeat Bush I was through with them. But this would have done it even faster.

8 posted on 06/09/2004 7:48:31 AM PDT by No Blue States
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To: No Blue States

Was that Misunderestimated by Sammons? I found the same thing and filed a complaint. It would come and go as if a hacker was on board. I pulled my account and cancelled my amazon visa card.


9 posted on 06/09/2004 7:57:56 AM PDT by sarasota
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To: All

Amazon have been promoting paederasty and pedophilia booklets and pamphlets for years.

I stopped purchasing there since 1998 and will no longer patronize them - I'll wait as long as a library or garage sale if I have to....

Nobody needs Amazon if they are going to sell books with a political bias.

There is only one way as a consumer to show disapproval..
S H U N !!!


10 posted on 06/09/2004 8:06:02 AM PDT by imintrouble
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To: esryle
Understand that it isn't just Amazon, it's the publishing industry in general that has come to view books as essentially content-neutral commodities with a fairly low profit margin. Which they are if you are pushing product and not ideas. It's the price you pay for running mega-bookstores.

I don't think that problem is so much that someone is selling these books as it is that someone's buying them.

11 posted on 06/09/2004 8:14:12 AM PDT by Billthedrill
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: All

Email them and let them know your opinion. I went to the Contact Us page and sent them the following email:

It has come to my attention that your web site offers for sale "Understanding Loved Boys and Boylovers," a book that promotes pedophilia. I understand a spokesman for you company said that you do not believe in censoring the book simply because you believe it is repugnant. Your spokesman apparently doesn't understand that while David Riegel is free to write whatever book he wishes, you are not obligated to provide a forum in which he can advance his opinions. Since you have dropped the ball on this issue, I'm going to pick it up. I will not give my money to a company that fails to stand up against child molestation. I will make no further purchases from Amazon as long as you offer this book for sale. And I will make sure my friends and family do not as well.


13 posted on 06/09/2004 8:39:24 AM PDT by ahayes
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To: esryle

I just sent my friend who has a novel on sale through them and let him know I can't buy his book from Amazon. Eager to hear his reply.


14 posted on 06/09/2004 8:44:38 AM PDT by subterfuge (Liberalism is, as liberalism does.)
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To: esryle
He also spent $1,600 to take out large ads in the Seattle Times and Seattle Post-Intelligencer criticizing Amazon.com.

A cynic might think that the publishers of the pederasty book put him up to this. They certainly couldn't have asked for better advertising.

I notice that Amazon also sells several editions of Mein Kampf. This is clearly a much more dangerous book than any paean to buggery; should Amazon be pressured not to sell it?

15 posted on 06/09/2004 8:56:39 AM PDT by Physicist
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To: ahayes

yep....Duly noted & emailed.
Mine went something like this...
"I will not associate myself with,or do business with, a company that sells books or other materials that promote pederasty and/or pedophilia.Your website/store should be investigated by the FBI. Thank You,Sincerely," Blah-blah,you know.What they are doing is beyond irresponsible.
Business is business,but this is beyond the pale.


16 posted on 06/09/2004 9:04:56 AM PDT by gimme1ibertee (Nope......No Tag Line Here! (keepin'my tags to myself,thank you very much!!))
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To: esryle

Paging Bill O'Reilly....


17 posted on 06/09/2004 9:23:18 AM PDT by citizen (Write-in Tom Tancredo President 2004!)
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To: wmichgrad

What's it's ranking on Amazon. I don't even want to log on to that page. Did you notice?


18 posted on 06/09/2004 10:13:05 AM PDT by ModelBreaker
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To: ModelBreaker; Billthedrill; Physicist; gimme1ibertee; ahayes; imintrouble; sarasota; esryle
It's rank is 8,905. I would say that people are buying it, which is very scary.

The top three results for Mein Kampf rank 21,732, 21,836 and 32,878. I think that if a company wants to maintain a specific image, then they would be very careful about what they sell. Now, Amazon.com may not have any particular image it is trying to portray regarding family values or morals. But, I do wonder how much its on-line partners, such as Target and Toys R Us, care about their family friendly image. Do they want to be associated with with a company that sells this crap, boy love, mein kampf or otherwise?

If you want to send a message to Amazon.com, start writing to their on-line partners.
19 posted on 06/09/2004 10:35:07 AM PDT by wmichgrad
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To: wmichgrad
It's rank is 8,905. I would say that people are buying it, which is very scary.

Yikes! I was happy when my book was at 12,000. Even in the 12,000 - 30,000 range, us authors make money (not a full income, but there's a decent check every quarter). I suspect this guy could support a modest lifestyle living off this trash--and Amazon is helping him.

20 posted on 06/09/2004 10:49:10 AM PDT by ModelBreaker
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To: sarasota
I've stopped buying at amazon. Seems they are way over the line, even for liberals.

I stopped buying from them years ago, for simple economic reasons:

- They're not the lowest price (try half.com, buy.com, deepdiscountdvd.com etc.)
- They're not the best shipping (see above)
- They dump sales tax on shipments to my state

Amazon was the high-cost supplier, so they dropped off my supplier list long ago.

21 posted on 06/09/2004 10:52:36 AM PDT by Hank Rearden (Refuse to let anyone who could only get a government job tell you how to run your life.)
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To: imintrouble

" Amazon have been promoting paederasty and pedophilia booklets and pamphlets for years. "


I fail to see how pedophilia and pandering to it is freedom of expression. Some really warped minds festering inside this country.


22 posted on 06/09/2004 10:53:29 AM PDT by SunnySide
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To: SunnySide

What? Can you please clarify?


23 posted on 06/09/2004 11:00:57 AM PDT by wmichgrad
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To: esryle; little jeremiah

Bump and ping


24 posted on 06/09/2004 12:14:42 PM PDT by scripter (Thousands have left the homosexual lifestyle)
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To: esryle
From GayBookWorld:
Understanding Loved Boys and Boylovers
by David L. Riegel

Many researchers is the fields of Psychology and Human Sexuality have been taking a fresh look at the "conventional" wisdom which has been the basis for evaluation of intergenerational male/male sexual activities. The long assumed "harm" of such activities has failed to be supported by research, and the sociocultural "wrongness" based on this "harm" is therefore left without any rational basis. An extremely thorough and exhaustive paper, "A Meta-Analytic Examination of Assumed Properties of Child Sexual Abuse Using College Samples" was published in the July, 1998 Psychological Bulletin, the journal of the American Psychological Association. It brought forth howls of protest from right wing radicals all the way up to and including the United States House of Representatives, but after the furor subsided, the paper, having been subjected to intensive examination at every level, has been judged to be true, accurate and objective science.

Previous to this, a collection of papers by such authors as Bullough, Bernard, Schild, Warren, Bauserman, et al., was published as "Dares to Speak", edited by Joseph Geraci. Before that there was "Male Intergenerational Intimacy" by Brongersma. Both of these volumes are currently in print, and are available on line from both Amazon and Barnes and Noble.

The above mentioned paper and books are intended primarily for researchers, educators, and other people knowledgeable in these areas. Therefore, I have authored a "layman's" introductory volume, "Understanding Loved Boys and Boylovers", which essentially covers the same premises, data, and conclusions as the above, but which is written in mostly non technical language, with the average citizen in mind. This book, while certainly bound to be controversial, and which espouses certain changes in various laws, is carefully maintained within the limits of current laws, there is nothing in it which could possibly concern any postal inspector, or which could create any legal liability. SafeHaven Foundation Press

Emphasis mine.
25 posted on 06/09/2004 12:21:01 PM PDT by scripter (Thousands have left the homosexual lifestyle)
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To: esryle
Some people have too much time on their hands... from here:
Rearranging the letters of ''Understanding Loved Boys And Boy Lovers' - David L. Riegel' (Book that attempts to justify paedophilia) gives:

Very odd old arse-bandit involved in lad-buggery lesson.


26 posted on 06/09/2004 12:38:45 PM PDT by scripter (Thousands have left the homosexual lifestyle)
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To: EdReform
Molesters, Inc
27 posted on 06/09/2004 12:49:48 PM PDT by scripter (Thousands have left the homosexual lifestyle)
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To: esryle
An Amazon.com spokesperson told KIRO 7 "Our goal is to support freedom of expression and to provide customers with the broadest selection possible. We believe it is censorship to not carry a book in our catalog simply because we find its message repugnant."

Same reply I got when I e-mailed them long ago.

28 posted on 06/09/2004 1:44:58 PM PDT by bruin66 (Time: Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once.)
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To: esryle

I stopped buying at Amazon too.


29 posted on 06/09/2004 7:12:13 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN

Here's a book site I haven't had any problems with getting rare titles;

http://www.alibris.com/


30 posted on 06/09/2004 7:16:11 PM PDT by Hillarys Gate Cult
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To: *Homosexual Agenda; EdReform; scripter; GrandMoM; backhoe; Yehuda; Clint N. Suhks; saradippity; ...

Homosexual Agenda Ping - Amazon Is Still Bad, Very Bad!

I thought they weren't selling this book anymore, or maybe it was another book... Obviously they are either:

(1) Anxious to promote homosexuality/pederasty/pedophilia (shades of the same nasty color)

Or

(2) They care so much about profit that they don't give a **** what they sell.

I think it's part of each. Buying from Amazon helps them be what they are - purveyors of pedophila promotion. Ever heard of karma? Ever heard of "if you touch excrement you're going to stink too?"

Sorry if this offends anyone but I have HAD IT UP TO HERE with the seduction and destruction of children. HAD IT.

Let me know if anyone wants on/off this pinglist.

This is no sane excuse for tolerating this evil, none whatsoever. Anyone who tries to excuse it is painting themselves with the same brush of pedophilia promotion.


31 posted on 06/09/2004 8:02:52 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Take Back The Rainbow! Take back the word "GAY"!)
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To: little jeremiah
Belated Bump


What We Can Do To Help Defeat the "Gay" Agenda


Homosexual Agenda: Categorical Index of Links (Version 1.1)


Myth and Reality about Homosexuality--Sexual Orientation Section, Guide to Family Issues"

32 posted on 06/11/2004 7:16:49 AM PDT by EdReform (Support Free Republic - All donations are greatly appreciated. Thank you for your support!)
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To: sarasota

Thank you sir for your stand. Don't be surprised if you see this Boy Love book prominantly placed next to Hillary's POS book at the entrance to B & N. They suck too.


33 posted on 06/11/2004 7:19:40 AM PDT by gathersnomoss
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To: gathersnomoss

Agreed, and I never visit B&N. Borders is my choice where I rearrange their "new arrivals" to position the Dick Morris book on Hillary in front of Hillary's book and put the Sammons book on W, Misunderestimated, up on the top shelf (as opposed to their positioning on a bottom shels on the back side). We freepers need to help them put their priorities in order.


34 posted on 06/11/2004 9:14:31 AM PDT by sarasota
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