Skip to comments.Local Bars Still Feeling Some Effects of State Smoking Ban(Should waivers be granted?)
Posted on 06/10/2004 8:20:25 AM PDT by fight_truth_decay
SARATOGA SPRINGS -- According to a report conducted for bar owners in the state, the workplace smoking ban enacted last year led to the loss of 2,000 industry jobs and millions of dollars in wages.
Ridgewood Economic Associates of New Jersey conducted the study for New York Nightlife Association based in New York City, and the Empire State Restaurant and Tavern Association based in Albany.
The report stated that since the state's Clean Indoor Act took effect on July 24 banning smoking in all workplaces, $28.5 million in wages and salary payments and $37 million in gross state product were lost in the industry.
Ridgewood, which used data from the state Department of Labor, also found that businesses that supply bars have also suffered losses to the tune of 650 jobs, $21.5 million in wages and $34.5 million in gross state product.
Saratoga County has shown little evidence of economic loss, though, according to the state Department of Health, which grants waivers to businesses that show a 15 percent decline in profits since the ban. Only two bars have applied: Connie's Roadhouse in Moreau, which was granted a waiver in April, and the Alley Bar in Saratoga Springs which was denied one.
Janine Stuchin, project coordinator with the Adirondack Tobacco Free Network's southern region base on Phila Street, said she's surprised at the complaints from bar owners.
'I think things are going very well,' she said. 'I continue to hear from the public of their support.'
Even if bars are hurting, she said, it's a public health issue. 'The ban is designed to protect workers from secondhand smoke,' she said.
Suzanne Dormandy, manager Tin & Lint on Caroline Street, said no one has lost their job over the ban, but business is hurting.
'It's supposedly for the employees' health, but now we can't afford health care,' she said.
Dormandy said in a tourist city like Saratoga Springs, when patrons go out for a cigarette, they drift like smoke into another bar.
A bill lingering in the state Legislature, sponsored by Assemblywoman RoAnn Destito, D-Rome, and Sen. Raymond Meier, R-Western, calls for pool halls, bowling alleys and bars (a business where food sale is incidental) to be allowed a separate room with air filtration for smoking.
Assemblyman Roy McDonald, R-Wilton, said he hadn't studied the bill yet, but that something had to be done to equalize waiver granting.
'It's got to be more structured,' he said. 'What do you say to the ones that don't get it?'
June 10, 2004-"For 35 years I have been a provider of electronic games and amusements, mainly to bars, taverns, restaurants, diners and entertainment centers. I have never seen such a drop in business like the one this past year. It is directly tied to the smoking ban.
I talk with other service providers (food, alcohol, cleaning supplies, even state-sponsored "Quick Draw" gambling). When it comes to bars, restaurants and other businesses they serve, they all have the same story: Many have closed.
Now several bills have been introduced to revise New York State's smoking ban, almost a year old. These proposals would exempt bars, taverns, clubs and entertainment centers that primarily do not serve food from the smoking ban and require them to install air-purification filtration systems.
Some kind of reason, common sense and accommodation must be brought to the financial crisis many are finding themselves in." More:
Shaun Levine, executive director of the New York State Conservative Party, was strongly opposed to the bill. Her group is trying to get the state to amend the Clean Indoor Air Act to allow more waivers for businesses that blame the smoking ban for revenue losses.
"I think it's insane that we send our boys to Iraq to defend our country, but they can't have a cigarette," she said Monday. "They can give their life, but they can't have a smoke."
Should bar owners showing "financial hardships" from the smoking ban under the Clean Indoor Act be granted "smoking waivers"?
As one employee said,the ban is for employees' health but now she can't afford health care.
Funny, they pass legislation that is supposedly about protecting health and put that protected person out of work. Therefore they become poverty striken and are now esposed to an entirely new set of risks to their health.
Anyone with a brain knows the bans have NOTHING to do with health and everything to do with control and the bottom line of the pharmaceutical companies annual report.
I wish they'd just ban the selling of cigs and we could all go and find our own bootlegger.It would be easier than all this bullshit!
As of May 11th- The Cattaraugus County businesses are: the bar Rough Cuts in South Dayton; Off Track Betting in Olean; the Ischua Fire Department, and the Kinney Hose Company in Weston Mills.
Each waiver application was voted on separately. To qualify for a waiver, businesses either have to show 15 percent loss in revenue or show other financial hardship, such as building a special room for smokers prior to the start of the ban in July(cannot build one after?).
Businesses also have to keep smoke from reaching non-smokers and staff by having a separately ventilated room with no paid workers serving the room.
Rough Cuts has a building for smokers, separated from non-smokers by a walkway, said Jordan in his report. After increasing the size of the fan to vent smoke outdoors and arranging for a stronger self-closing door to the smoking room, the building met the standards for the waiver, said Jordan.
The OTB facility had a separate room with separate ventilation and a self-closing door already in place, said Ellis.
The Ischua Fire Department originally had a separate room for non-smokers pressurized to keep smoke out, said Jordan. The deparment switched the rooms, changing the non-smoking room to a smoking room and venting the smoke outside, then using the larger room for non-smokers instead.
The Kinney Hose Company in Weston Mills already had a separate room set aside for smokers, said Jordan. He added that both fire facilities would have bingo volunteers in the smoking rooms for bingo, but those individuals would all be unpaid. They have no paid employees in the smoking room, he said. Under the criteria for the waivers, no paid employees are allowed in smoking rooms. This stems from the original intent of the law: preventing second-hand smoke from getting to workers.
Public Health Director Barbara Hastings said she was very glad we can move forward with the waivers. She added that other businesses had applied for waivers, and the health department was waiting for them to complete separate smoking facilities before the department can inspect the buildings.
Will never happen. Government is more addicted to tax revenue from cigs than smokers are to cigs.
The Government is not only addicted to the taxes they receive from cigarettes they are also addicted to their jobs, which in turn means "their power"...they listen to the whining liberals and want to "protect" everyone...in all actuality they only protect themselves and their power trips. They have yet to learn you can't sit on both sides of the fence but they keep trying! If it were up to me I'd run them all out of office, have about had it with their overprotectiveness and HAVE had it with the dang liberals! Last I knew smoking cigarettes wasn't against the law, if the liberals have their way it will be though, then what will the jackasses who make laws do for tax revenues?
Ah yes, let them eat cake.
See, Janine Stuchin, project coordinator with the Adirondack Tobacco Free Network's southern region base, has her rice bowl, so who cares about the incomes of the little pipples she and her fellow Nazis are tanking?
But don't you see? As with all liberals it's their intentions that count.
Further, a vast majority of New Yorkers have said in recent polls that they are happy with the new law. One survey shows that many regular restaurantgoers see a smoke-free environment as an attraction.
The early evidence, however, is that many businesses are unharmed. In fact, though rumors swirl in an environment where every bit of news is trumpeted by the side it favors, a reporter could not verify that one bar, restaurant or club, of the more than 20,000 in the city, had closed solely because of the smoking ban.
The ban does not appear to have deterred businesses from opening in New York City. The New York State Liquor Authority, which issues licenses to establishments that serve alcohol, received 127 applications from city businesses last month, compared to 126 in November 2002. The number of licenses granted by the authority in that same period rose to 106 last month, from 75 the year before.
The city's Health Department, which enforces the smoking ban, has also analyzed monthly employment numbers and found no overall job loss in the food service and drinking industry. Critics have countered that such findings are politically motivated, and cannot show when establishments cut back shifts and absorb revenue losses. But many restaurants and bars refuse to divulge their finances, making it difficult to gauge the validity of their complaints.
Polls back the city's contention that New Yorkers have welcomed the ban. A New York Times poll in June showed that 56 percent of the 962 respondents said they approved of the smoking ban. A Quinnipiac University poll in October found that 62 percent supported the ban.
Tim Zagat, the publisher of restaurant guides, surveyed more than 29,000 of his volunteer reviewers this year and found that 96 percent said they would eat out as much, if not more, with the smoking ban. Only 4 percent said they would eat out less. "I don't care how you cut it," Mr. Zagat said. "I think it's long-term good for
"But many restaurants and bars refuse to divulge their finances, making it difficult to gauge the validity of their complaints."
Great to see you post in support of the philosophy that the government should have access to all information we posess.
"Polls back the city's contention that New Yorkers have welcomed the ban."
Ah, yes, government via polls. Where else have we seen this before?
Hmmm. Those restaurants that are complaining about lost revenues are refusing to provide data to support their claims. And another poster said it was a conspiracy by the liberal media to NOT report that data in their papers. hmmm.
Throws out the claim by a previous poster that jobs were lost.
The laws were not enacted on polls. But the post-enactment polls confirm that the majority agree with the decision.
You twist everything. All I am saying is that if you claim damages, you should prove your damages. Of course proving anything goes completely against the pro-smoker agenda.
The city's Health Department, which enforces the smoking ban, has also analyzed monthly employment numbers and found no overall job loss in the food service and drinking industry
hmmmmm ..who do you believe? Who is more politically motivated? ;)
- Michael LeBoeuf Businesses Harmed by Smoking Bans (mostly NY covered) - CHART
Anti-smoking organizations insist that bans are somehow good for people in hospitality businesses. This chart shows otherwise. These businesses have lost a significant portion of their business as a direct result of smoking bans. Many are closed. Many that are still open have told us they doubt they'll survive much longer.
Most of this information comes directly from businesses that have contacted me or my colleagues. Some comes from newspaper articles. Blank spaces in the chart represent data that is unavailable, or that doesn't apply. (For instance, a distributor doesn't receive tips, and many owner-operators of small taverns don't have any employees other than themselves and family members.)
Last Update: Thursday, June 03, 2004
Other states posted:Black Duck Lounge Tavern
70% Houlton ME
"I've never seen it like this before. It's like all the customers just disappeared."
...the bans have NOTHING to do with health and everything to do with control...
I might add that the bans are but one of hundreds of look-good-work that politicians and bureaucrats engage in to give the illusion that they're earning a paycheck.
How is it that individuals and society prospered and increased prosperity for years and decades prior to last years laws and this years laws? How is it that people and society can flourish without next years laws?