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Agenda of Islam - A War Between Civilizations
tzemach ^ | Professor Moshe Sharon

Posted on 06/14/2004 4:16:29 AM PDT by dennisw

Agenda of Islam - A War Between Civilizations

Professor Moshe Sharon -- reprinted by permission     Comments


Home | articles | Agenda of Islam - A War Between Civilizations

There Is No Fundamental Islam

"Fundamentalism" is a word that came from the heart of the Christian religion. It means faith that goes by the word of the Bible. Fundamental Christianity, or going with the Bible, does not mean going around and killing people. There is no fundamental Islam. There is only Islam full stop. The question is how the Koran is interpreted.

All of a sudden we see that the greatest interpreters of Islam are politicians in the western world. They know better than all the speakers in the mosques, all those who deliver terrible sermons against anything that is either Christian or Jewish. These western politicians know that there is good Islam and bad Islam. They know even how to differentiate between the two, except that none of them know how to read a word of Arabic.

The Language of Islam

You see, so much is covered by politically correct language that, in fact, the truth has been lost. For example, when we speak about Islam in the West, we try to use our own language and terminology. We speak about Islam in terms of democracy and fundamentalism, in terms of parliamentarism and all kinds of terms, which we take from our own dictionary. One of my professors and one of the greatest orientalists in the world says that doing this is like a cricket reporter describing a cricket game in baseball terms. We cannot use for one culture or civilization the language of another. For Islam, you've got to use the language of Islam.

Driving Principles of Islam

Let me explain the principles that are driving the religion of Islam. Of course, every Moslem has to acknowledge the fact that there is only one God.

But it's not enough to say that there is only one God. A Moslem has to acknowledge the fact that there is one God and Mohammed is his prophet. These are the fundamentals of the religion that without them, one cannot be a Moslem.

But beyond that, Islam is a civilization. It is a religion that gave first and foremost a wide and unique legal system that engulfs the individual, society and nations with rules of behaviour. If you are Moslem, you have to behave according to the rules of Islam which are set down in the Koran and which are very different than the teachings of the Bible.

The Bible

Let me explain the difference.

The Bible is the creation of the spirit of a nation over a very, very long period, if we talk from the point of view of the scholar, and let me remain scholarly. But there is one thing that is important in the Bible. It leads to salvation. It leads to salvation in two ways.

In Judaism, it leads to national salvation — not just a nation that wants to have a state, but a nation that wants to serve God. That's the idea behind the Hebrew text of the Bible.

The New Testament that took the Hebrew Bible moves us toward personal salvation. So we have got these two kinds of salvation, which, from time to time, meet each other.

But the key word is salvation. Personal salvation means that each individual is looked after by God, Himself, who leads a person through His word to salvation. This is the idea in the Bible, whether we are talking about the Old or the New Testament. All of the laws in the Bible, even to the minutest ones, are, in fact directed toward this fact of salvation.

Secondly, there is another point in the Bible, which is highly important. This is the idea that man was created in the image of God. Therefore, you don't just walk around and obliterate the image of God. Many people, of course, used Biblical rules and turned them upside down. History has seen a lot of massacres in the name of God and in the name of Jesus. But as religions, both Judaism and Christianity in their fundamentals speak about honouring the image of God and the hope of salvation. These are the two basic fundamentals.

The Essence of Islam

Now let's move to the essence of Islam. Islam was born with the idea that it should rule the world.

Let's look, then, at the difference between these three religions. Judaism speaks about national salvation — namely that at the end of the story, when the world becomes a better place, Israel will be in its own land, ruled by its own king and serving God. Christianity speaks about the idea that every single person in the world can be saved from his sins, while Islam speaks about ruling the world. I can quote here in Arabic, but there is no point in quoting Arabic, so let me quote a verse in English. "Allah sent Mohammed with the true religion so that it should rule over all the religions."

The idea, then, is not that the whole world would become a Moslem world at this time, but that the whole world would be subdued under the rule of Islam.

When the Islamic empire was established in 634 AD, within seven years — 640 AD — the core of the empire was created. The rules that were taken from the Koran and from the tradition that was ascribed to the prophet Mohammed, were translated into a real legal system. Jews and Christians could live under Islam provided they paid poll tax and accepted Islamic superiority. Of course, they had to be humiliated. And Jews and Christians living under Islam are humiliated to this very day.

Mohammed Held That All the Biblical Prophets Were Moslems

Mohammed did accept the existence of all the Biblical prophets before him. However, he also said that all these prophets were Moslems. Abraham was a Moslem. In fact, Adam himself was the first Moslem. Isaac and Jacob and David and Solomon and Moses and Jesus were all Moslems, and all of them had writings similar to the Koran. Therefore, world history is Islamic history because all the heroes of history were Moslems.

Furthermore, Moslems accept the fact that each of these prophets brought with him some kind of a revelation. Moses, brought the Taurat, which is the Torah, and Jesus brought the Ingeel, which is the Evangelion or Gospel — namely the New Testament.

The Bible vs. the Koran

Why then is the Bible not similar to the Koran?

Mohammed explains that the Jews and Christians forged their books. Had they not been changed and forged, they would have been identical to the Koran. But because Christians and Jews do have some truth, Islam concedes that they cannot be completely destroyed by war [for now].

Nevertheless, the laws are very clear — Jews and Christians have no rights whatsoever to independent existence. They can live under Islamic rule provided they keep to the rules that Islam promulgates for them.

Islamic Rule and Jihad

What happens if Jews and Christians don't want to live under the rules of Islam? Then Islam has to fight them and this fighting is called Jihad. Jihad means war against those people who don't want to accept the Islamic superior rule. That's jihad. They may be Jews; they may be Christians; they may be Polytheists. But since we don't have too many Polytheists left, at least not in the Middle East — their war is against the Jews and Christians.

A few days ago, I received a pamphlet that was distributed in the world by bin Laden. He calls for jihad against America as the leader of the Christian world, not because America is the supporter of Israel, but because Americans are desecrating Arabia with their filthy feet. There are Americans in Arabia were no Christians should be. In this pamphlet there is not a single word about Israel. Only that Americans are desecrating the home of the prophet.

Two Houses

The Koran sees the world as divided into two — one part which has come under Islamic rule and one part which is supposed to come under Islamic rule in the future. There is a division of the world which is very clear. Every single person who starts studying Islam knows it. The world is described as Dar al-Islam (the house of Islam) — that's the place where Islam rules — and the other part which is called Dar al-Harb — the house of war. Not the "house of non-Muslims," but the "house of war." It is this house of war which as to be, at the end of time, conquered. The world will continue to be in the house of war until it comes under Islamic rule.

This is the norm. Why? Because Allah says it's so in the Koran. God has sent Mohammed with the true religion in order that the truth will overcome all other religions.

Islamic Law

Within the Islamic vision of this world, there are rules that govern the lives of the Moslems themselves, and these rules are very strict. In fundamentals, there are no differences between schools of law.

However, there are four streams of factions within Islam with differences between them concerning the minutiae of the laws. All over the Islamic world, countries have favored one or another of these schools of laws.

The strictest school of law is called Hanbali, mainly coming out of Saudi Arabia. There are no games there, no playing around with the meanings of words. If the Koran speaks about war, then it's war.

There are various perspectives in Islam with different interpretations over the centuries. There were good people that were very enlightened in Islam that tried to understand things differently. They even brought traditions from the mouth of the prophet that women and children should not be killed in war. These more liberal streams do exist, but there is one thing that is very important for us to remember. The Hanbali school of law is extremely strict, and today this is the school that is behind most of the terrorist powers. Even if we talk about the existence of other schools of Islamic law, when we're talking about fighting against the Jews, or fighting against the Christian world led by America, it is the Hanbali school of law that is being followed.

Islam and Territory

This civilization created one very important, fundamental rule about territory. Any territory that comes under Islamic rule cannot be de-Islamized. Even if at one time or another, the [non-Moslem] enemy takes over the territory that was under Islamic rule, it is considered to be perpetually Islamic.

This is why whenever you hear about the Arab/Israeli conflict, you hear — territory, territory, territory. There are other aspects to the conflict, but territory is highly important.

The Christian civilization has not only been seen as a religious opponent, but as a dam stopping Islam from achieving its final goal for which it was created.

Islam was created to be the army of God, the army of Allah. Every single Moslem is a soldier in this army. Every single Moslem that dies in fighting for the spread of Islam is a shaheed (martyr) no matter how he dies, because — and this is very important — this is an eternal war between the two civilizations. It's not a war that stops. This war is there because it was created by Allah. Islam must be the ruler. This is a war that will not end.

Islam and Peace

Peace in Islam can exist only within the Islamic world; peace can only be between Moslem and Moslem.

With the non-Moslem world or non-Moslem opponents, there can be only one solution — a cease-fire until Moslems can gain more power. It is an eternal war until the end of days. Peace can only come if the Islamic side wins. The two civilizations can only have periods of cease-fires. And this idea of cease-fire is based on a very important historical precedent, which, incidentally, Yasser Arafat referred to when he spoke in Johannesburg after he signed the Oslo agreement with Israel.

Let me remind you that the document speaks of peace — you wouldn't believe what you are reading! You would think that you were reading some science fiction piece. I mean when you read it, you can't believe that this was signed by Israelis who are actually acquainted with Islamic policies and civilization.

A few weeks after the Oslo agreement was signed, Arafat went to Johannesburg, and in a mosque there he made a speech in which he apologized, saying, "Do you think I signed something with the Jews which is contrary to the rules of Islam?" (I have obtained a copy of Arafat's recorded speech so I heard it from his own mouth.) Arafat continued, "That's not so. I'm doing exactly what the prophet Mohammed did."

Whatever the prophet is supposed have done becomes a precedent. What Arafat was saying was, "Remember the story of Hudaybiya." The prophet had made an agreement there with the tribe of Kuraish for 10 years. But then he trained 10,000 soldiers and within two years marched on their city of Mecca. He, of course, found some kind of pretext.

Thus, in Islamic jurisdiction, it became a legal precedent which states that you are only allowed to make peace for a maximum of 10 years. Secondly, at the first instance that you are able, you must renew the jihad [thus breaking the "peace" agreement].

In Israel, it has taken over 50 years in this country for our people to understand that they cannot speak about [permanent] peace with Moslems. It will take another 50 years for the western world to understand that they have got a state of war with the Islamic civilization that is virile and strong. This should be understood: When we talk about war and peace, we are not talking in Belgium, French, English, or German terms. We are talking about war and peace in Islamic terms.

Cease-fire as a Tactical Choice

What makes Islam accept cease-fire? Only one thing — when the enemy is too strong. It is a tactical choice.

Sometimes, he may have to agree to a cease-fire in the most humiliating conditions. It's allowed because Mohammed accepted a cease-fire under humiliating conditions. That's what Arafat said to them in Johannesburg.

When western policy makers hear these things, they answer, "What are you talking about? You are in the Middle Ages. You don't understand the mechanisms of politics."

Which mechanisms of politics? There are no mechanisms of politics where power is. And I want to tell you one thing — we haven't seen the end of it, because the minute a radical Moslem power has atomic, chemical, or biological weapons, they will use it. I have no doubt about that.

Now, since we face war and we know that we cannot get more than an impermanent cease-fire, one has to ask himself what is the major component of an Israeli/Arab cease-fire. It is that the Islamic side is weak and your side is strong. The relations between Israel and the Arab world in the last 50 years since the establishment of our State has been based only on this idea, the deterrent power.

Wherever You Have Islam, You Will Have War

The reason that we have what we have in Yugoslavia and other places is because Islam succeeded in entering these countries. Wherever you have Islam, you will have war. It grows out of the attitude of Islamic civilization.

What are the poor people in the Philippines being killed for? What's happening between Pakistan and India?

Islamic Infiltration

Furthermore, there is another fact that must be remembered. The Islamic world has not only the attitude of open war, but there's also war by infiltration.

One of the things which the western world is not paying enough attention to is the tremendous growth of Islamic power in the western world. What happened in America and the Twin Towers is not something that came from the outside. And if America doesn't wake up, one day the Americans will find themselves in a chemical war and most likely in an atomic war — inside the U.S.

End of Days

It is highly important to understand how a civilization sees the end of days. In Christianity and in Judaism, we know exactly what is the vision of the end of days.

In Judaism, it is going to be as in Isaiah — peace between nations, not just one nation, but between all nations. People will not have any more need for weapons and nature will be changed — a beautiful end of days and the kingdom of God on earth.

Christianity goes as far as Revelation to see a day that Satan himself is obliterated. There are no more powers of evil. That's the vision.

I'm speaking now as a historian. I try to understand how Islam sees the end of days. In the end of days, Islam sees a world that is totally Moslem, completely Moslem under the rule of Islam. Complete and final victory.

Christians will not exist, because according to many Islamic traditions, the Moslems who are in hell will have to be replaced by somebody and they'll be replaced by the Christians.

The Jews will no longer exist, because before the coming of the end of days, there is going to be a war against the Jews where all Jews should be killed. I'm quoting now from the heart of Islamic tradition, from the books that are read by every child in school. They Jews will all be killed. They'll be running away and they'll be hiding behind trees and rocks, and on that day Allah will give mouths to the rocks and trees and they will say, "Oh Moslem come here, there is a Jew behind me, kill him." Without this, the end of days cannot come. This is a fundamental of Islam.

Is There a Possibility to End This Dance of War?

The question which we in Israel are asking ourselves is what will happen to our country? Is there a possibility to end this dance of war?

The answer is, "No. Not in the foreseeable future." What we can do is reach a situation where for a few years we may have relative quiet.

But for Islam, the establishment of the State of Israel was a reverse of Islamic history. First, Islamic territory was taken away from Islam by Jews. You know by now that this can never be accepted, not even one meter. So everyone who thinks Tel Aviv is safe is making a grave mistake. Territory, which at one time was dominated by Islamic rule, now has become non-Moslem. Non-Moslems are independent of Islamic rule; Jews have created their own independent state. It is anathema.

And (this is the worse) Israel, a non-Moslem state, is ruling over Moslems. It is unthinkable that non-Moslems should rule over Moslems.

I believe that Western civilization should hold together and support each other. Whether this will happen or not, I don't know. Israel finds itself on the front lines of this war. It needs the help of its sister civilization. It needs the help of America and Europe. It needs the help of the Christian world. One thing I am sure about, this help can be given by individual Christians who see this as the road to salvation.

  [Prof. Moshe Sharon teaches Islamic History at the Hebrew University, Jerusalem.]



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: agendaofislam; christianity; clashofcivilizatio; clashofcivilizations; fundamentalism; islam; islamicterrorism; islamofacism; jihad; koran; muslims; religionofpeace; sharia; terrorism
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1 posted on 06/14/2004 4:16:30 AM PDT by dennisw
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To: SJackson

ping


2 posted on 06/14/2004 4:17:01 AM PDT by dennisw ("Allah FUBAR!")
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To: dennisw

Bump!


3 posted on 06/14/2004 4:37:40 AM PDT by Perseverando
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To: dennisw; All
Clash of Civilizatio:
To find all articles tagged or indexed using Clash of Civilizatio, click below:
  click here >>> Clash of Civilizatio <<< click here  
(To view all FR Bump Lists, click here)


4 posted on 06/14/2004 4:51:11 AM PDT by backhoe (-30-)
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To: dennisw

This needs to be sent to the White House.


5 posted on 06/14/2004 4:57:41 AM PDT by MSSC6644
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To: MSSC6644

The WH has known this for many years. They simply spin and put another face on it, so as not to piss-off 1.3b 'untermentsch' around the world.


6 posted on 06/14/2004 5:22:19 AM PDT by 7.62 x 51mm ( )
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Yehuda; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; ...
If you'd like to be on or off this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.
7 posted on 06/14/2004 5:30:33 AM PDT by SJackson (America...thru dissent and protest lost the ability to mobilize a will to win, Col Bui Tin, PAVN)
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To: dennisw

There is no moderate Islam. There are some moderate people who profess to be Muslims, but they mostly ignore their murderous vile ideology.


8 posted on 06/14/2004 5:31:09 AM PDT by tkathy (nihilism: absolute destructiveness toward the world at large and oneself)
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To: 7.62 x 51mm

The clearest recitation of reality I've seen.


9 posted on 06/14/2004 5:38:20 AM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: dennisw

This needs to be in NY Times front page....fat chance of that though.


10 posted on 06/14/2004 5:40:06 AM PDT by Roamin53 (World War III started on Bill Clinton's watch. He just wasn't sure which side he was on.)
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To: 7.62 x 51mm

They simply spin and put another face on it, so as not to piss-off 1.3b 'untermentsch' around the world.

I'm assuming you think this is a bad thing?


11 posted on 06/14/2004 6:15:35 AM PDT by Valin (Hatred is the coward's revenge)
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To: SJackson; dennisw; Cachelot; Yehuda; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; ...
There is no moderate Islam.

IMHO, the reasons for the West's, The US in particular, studious ignorance of these aspects of Islam, are twofold:

1
The feared and very likely, popular reaction to the Muslim invasion of Western Europe by immigration is going to be extremely severe and chaotic. It will probably begin in Italy or the South of France. If you were to walk the streets of Toulon or Marseilles today, you would find them little different from those of Marrakech. I cannot imagine the feisty Provençaux putting up with that level of filth for much longer. However, on the official level, the euroweenies will send out engraved invitations to their daughters' circumcision party before they would risk an accusation of being politically incorrect.

2
Here in the US, the authorities fear a helter-skelter type armed reaction to the next al-qaida outrage. This could be exactly what al-qaida is trying to provoke. Muslims have to know that this is, after all, still an armed populace, so they must know that this is a possibility. They could well be planning for just that. I think this explains Bush's bland and fatuous statements on the "highjacked ROP."

The irony of all this is that in the WOT, we are, in numerical terms, facing far more Muslims than all of the enemy forces in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam combined. Even if you buy the absurd "Islam is a ROP that has been high-jacked" crap, we have to make people, especially potential Kerry voters, understand that this is a real war, just as real as the Revolution and apt to last 5 times as long. The stakes are a lot higher, too.

GWB and the Republicans have in no way made that clear.

12 posted on 06/14/2004 6:34:27 AM PDT by Kenny Bunk (The Middle East: a splendid colonial opportunity.)
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To: Kenny Bunk

>>GWB and the Republicans have in no way made that clear.

Very true. Unfortunately, it is probably also true that, on this issue, for the vast majority of those in our country, the words of Colonel Nathan Jessep ring true: "You can't handle the truth!"

I'm fresh out of good ideas on how to change this. I think it will take a 10X 9/11 event, and I'm really not sure that would do it. I fear I will get to see, in my lifetime.


13 posted on 06/14/2004 6:50:08 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (hoplophobia is a mental aberration rather than a mere attitude)
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To: dennisw
We need a reaganesque leader who will boldly, eloquently, articulately and passionately explain Islam's goals/methods to Americans and forge a consensus who are resolved to defeating Islam. Unlike Bush who respects and promotes Islam we need a leader (actually many of them) who understands that to defeat terrorism we have to defeat its roots in a malignant religion/political system.

I am impatient for the time when Islam will be outlawed as seditious and emigrant Muslims will be deported.
14 posted on 06/14/2004 7:12:53 AM PDT by fatidic (fatidic : of or relating to prophecy)
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To: 7.62 x 51mm
I am disgusted with GOP leaders, esp. Bush, for betraying America by lying to us about the Islamic threat. As a Christian I am also dismayed at the naivete of too many Christians who are lulled into accepting Bush or others who wear their religion on their sleeves and attribute to them some divine attributes of wisdom and godly intent to do His will. We've got to look beneath the surface to see what's really there and not be so easily manipulated.

The dems went over to the dark side long ago and I hold out no hope of reforming them, but there is still a small chance that the GOP can be reformed from the inside and I'd like to see FR do its part in this with Jim Robinson' blessing, instead of shortsightedly aiming to reelect George Bush.
15 posted on 06/14/2004 7:25:23 AM PDT by fatidic (fatidic : of or relating to prophecy)
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To: MSSC6644; Roamin53
Agreed! But look, this excellent article isn't even in the Breaking News or Front Page sidebar of FR as it should be until every freeper has an opportunity to read it.

So, why don't we copy this article and send it to everyone on our email list, every talk show host we can think of and bombard the news media and news media personalities and members of congress and state legislatures with a copy of this article? Then sooner, rather than later, the facts will get out and the public will give damn. Let's also give the leaders of our churches and synagogues a copy of this article. I'd like to see it reprinted in newspapers across America. I hope it is given out on college campuses in every state.

cheers
16 posted on 06/14/2004 7:51:37 AM PDT by fatidic (fatidic : of or relating to prophecy)
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To: dennisw

There is no god named Allah and Mohammed was a false prophet1 Allahu Fubar!


17 posted on 06/14/2004 8:28:40 AM PDT by sheik yerbouty
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To: dennisw

Gutsy post for the truth.


18 posted on 06/14/2004 12:46:21 PM PDT by BayouCoyote (The 1st victim of islam is the person who practices it.)
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To: Mudboy Slim; Happy2BMe; sultan88; Landru

Excellant read, snippet:

>"A few weeks after the Oslo agreement was signed, Arafat went to Johannesburg, and in a mosque there he made a speech in which he apologized, saying, "Do you think I signed something with the Jews which is contrary to the rules of Islam?" (I have obtained a copy of Arafat's recorded speech so I heard it from his own mouth.) Arafat continued, "That's not so. I'm doing exactly what the prophet Mohammed did."

Whatever the prophet is supposed have done becomes a precedent. What Arafat was saying was, "Remember the story of Hudaybiya." The prophet had made an agreement there with the tribe of Kuraish for 10 years. But then he trained 10,000 soldiers and within two years marched on their city of Mecca. He, of course, found some kind of pretext.

Thus, in Islamic jurisdiction, it became a legal precedent which states that you are only allowed to make peace for a maximum of 10 years. Secondly, at the first instance that you are able, you must renew the jihad [thus breaking the "peace" agreement]...."


19 posted on 06/14/2004 3:14:07 PM PDT by FBD (...Please press 2 for English...for Espanol, please stay on the line...)
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To: joanie-f; MeekOneGOP

Ping.

You may want to bookmark this one, Joanie!

Excellant read.


20 posted on 06/14/2004 3:30:15 PM PDT by FBD (...Please press 2 for English...for Espanol, please stay on the line...)
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To: dennisw

bump^


21 posted on 06/14/2004 3:48:55 PM PDT by FBD (...Please press 2 for English...for Espanol, please stay on the line...)
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To: FBD

Only those supporting the continued spread of Islam believe or trust Yassar Arafat.


22 posted on 06/14/2004 3:51:57 PM PDT by Happy2BMe (Ronald Reagan to Islamic Terrorism: YOU CAN RUN - BUT YOU CAN'T HIDE!)
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To: backhoe
I'd say it covers the most important points pretty well.

I tend to think of GW in terms of FDR on this, he knows full well what is coming, but this nation cannot be pushed to war, not of the type we face. It must drag a President
kicking and screaming for peace into it on it's own.

The President, Our President has told us, time and time again, "This is going to be a long war..." He has told us
of the sacrifice to come, we have seen a glimpse of the enemy but yet do not even begin to realize the TOTAL struggle we are engaged in.

Some of us, who've seen the face of war, some of us who follow the world of politics, some of us who lost loved ones in the attacks, understand, most do not.
It's going to take more, more time, more attacks, more lives lost, more families destroyed before the rest wake up
to the threat we face.

In the small breathing space we have left, we must PREPARE.
We must do what we can to educate our citizens about the truth of Islam, we must ELECT leaders who know the truth of Islam, and we must begin to stock the arsenal of freedom
for the monstrous clash coming our way. That arsenal begins
with you and the weapons you SHOULD have, the weapons you
SHOULD know how to use, those weapons which are YOUR BIRTHRIGHT! Having done that, and taken the responsibility
for yourself and your family, then you can take on the responsibility for your country. The ingenuity of american
thinking in unparalleled in the world, put it to use!

Time is running out, we hear more and more the reports of
war and rumors of war, recently a planned attempt to blow
up a MALL, it's coming home to us folks, we had better begin.

/rant
Tet68
23 posted on 06/14/2004 4:08:50 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: tet68
Hello, tet68... FWIW, I agree with you. I wrote this screed some time ago- the file's title is "Fire and Blood and Iron"


The entire West ( dare I say "the civilized World?" ) is locked in a fight to the death with militant Islam.

There will be no second-place winner, no "third way" solution-- it is March or Die time, folks.

It is Us versus an eighth-century "culture" of plunder, forced religious "conversions," and the mistreatment of women.

The sooner we face up to this fact realistically and quit dancing around PC talking-point nonsense about diversity and tolerance, the better off we'll all be.

We did not pick this fight- which really has roots in Jimmy Carter's appeasement in 1979 of militants- but we had damned well better see it for what it is, and be prepared to face it and finish it.

I'll put it in raw, personal terms-- I don't want Sharia law visited upon my women, and I don't want a goat-roper "culture" infesting my land.

I don't want their vile, nasty, loathsome weapons of mass destruction loosed upon my fair country, either.

They picked the fight, and now it is up to us to finish it- balls to the wall, hammer and anvil, fire and blood and iron... freedom is never, ever free, and the coin you pay it in is men's lives and tears and blood.

What we saw during Gulf War I was our military doctrine ( high tech ) versus Soviet doctrine ( throw a lot of low tech iron at the problem )-- and we all know how that turned out.

What we have just seen in the 3-Week War is Information-Tech,
( What some are calling it Hyperwarfare... )
or 21st Century warfare versus 20th Century...

What I would suggest, and call your attention to, is the fact that we, and Israel, are capable of waging 21st Century warfare, and the entire Arab world is not.

Proven fact, by recent events.

One more thing- this will be a war where we are all called to be warriors- so I suggest to you that the time has come to get hard, and stay hard... it really is the time for fire and blood and Iron...



24 posted on 06/14/2004 4:37:41 PM PDT by backhoe (Just an old Cold Warrior, draggin' his BAR into the Sunset...)
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To: FBD
bump!

25 posted on 06/14/2004 7:39:47 PM PDT by MeekOneGOP (Call me the Will Rogers voter: I never met a Democrat I didn't like - to vote OUT OF POWER !)
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To: jolie560; datura; Grampa Dave; texson66; dennisw; NautiNurse; bikepacker67; kidd; SJackson; ...

This has got to be one of the best written articles, describing the differances between Islam and other religions that I have ever read.

Please bookmark this article, and ping others to it.

Very few folks truly have an understanding of Islamists, and their deceptive agenda of global domination over other religions.

Excellant post Dennisw!
Thank you!


26 posted on 06/15/2004 4:10:01 PM PDT by FBD (...Please press 2 for English...for Espanol, please stay on the line...)
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To: dennisw; FBD; McGavin999; freedom44; nuconvert; sionnsar; AdmSmith; dixiechick2000; onyx; ...

PING!

Thanks FBD!


27 posted on 06/15/2004 10:00:11 PM PDT by F14 Pilot (John ''Fedayeen" sKerry - the Mullahs' regime candidate)
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To: F14 Pilot

Thanks, F14 Pilot!


28 posted on 06/15/2004 10:22:36 PM PDT by windchime (Podesta about Bush: "He's got four years to try to undo all the stuff we've done." (TIME-1/22/01))
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To: F14 Pilot

Thanks for the ping!


29 posted on 06/15/2004 10:43:07 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: dennisw

Bump for printing after the wife wakes up.


30 posted on 06/16/2004 3:05:24 AM PDT by bad company (God speed Dutch)
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To: dennisw; F14 Pilot

Thank you for posting this. And pilot, thanks for the ping.


31 posted on 06/16/2004 4:17:44 AM PDT by ovrtaxt (Stop the war. ********** NUKE EM NOW !)
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To: Cultural Jihad; E Rocc; good ol' W

Perhaps you folks can enlighten us on a few issues here.


32 posted on 06/16/2004 4:24:35 AM PDT by ovrtaxt (Stop the war. ********** NUKE EM NOW !)
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To: dennisw
In the end of days, Islam sees a world that is totally Moslem, completely Moslem under the rule of Islam. Complete and final victory. Christians will not exist, because according to many Islamic traditions, the Moslems who are in hell will have to be replaced by somebody and they'll be replaced by the Christians. The Jews will no longer exist, because before the coming of the end of days, there is going to be a war against the Jews where all Jews should be killed. I'm quoting now from the heart of Islamic tradition, from the books that are read by every child in school. They Jews will all be killed. They'll be running away and they'll be hiding behind trees and rocks, and on that day Allah will give mouths to the rocks and trees and they will say, "Oh Moslem come here, there is a Jew behind me, kill him." Without this, the end of days cannot come. This is a fundamental of Islam.

The ONLY alternative to this twisted vision, is either the death of vast populations of Muslims, or the mass conversion of the same to Christianity. If our leaders drop the PC BS, the former may come to pass. But I also know that many, many souls are praying for the latter.

33 posted on 06/16/2004 4:29:18 AM PDT by ovrtaxt (Stop the war. ********** NUKE EM NOW !)
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To: Travis McGee

Here's a good article.


34 posted on 06/16/2004 4:43:09 AM PDT by ovrtaxt (Stop the war. ********** NUKE EM NOW !)
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To: dennisw

Printed bump


35 posted on 06/16/2004 4:50:11 AM PDT by bad company (God speed Dutch)
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To: dennisw

Wow, I am going to copy this article.


36 posted on 06/16/2004 4:59:50 AM PDT by Diva
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To: ovrtaxt
It's about as "enlightening" as the "Protocols of The Elders of Zion". Nothing more (or less) than religious bigotry.

The "Tzemach" homepage is rather interesting, they feature the nuts that want to tear down the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque so they can build a "Third Temple", an act which would set off a gigantic war.

Fortunately, President Bush and our other leaders know better than to pander to nuts like this.

-Eric

37 posted on 06/16/2004 6:50:28 AM PDT by E Rocc (Republicans believe every day is the 4th of July, but Democrats believe every day is April 15.)
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To: E Rocc
Seeing the calls for the mass-murder of innocents, I wonder how much of the angst of these yahoos is really just bloodthirsty-driven envy.
38 posted on 06/16/2004 6:56:23 AM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: fatidic

I was too, at first, but I finally realized why he said what he said. We can't take on 1.2bn muzzies all at once. We have to do it a country/region at a time.

I'll bet you dollars to donuts that if we both sat down with W and had a couple of burgers and cold ones, he'd admit that Islam is an evil that must be wiped out. I was thoroughly dismayed that he didn't say that publicly, and even more PO'd that he invited the muzzie filth into the WH.

They're gaining the protected "victim ststatus" now, and I have a huge problem with that.

The liberal-demokkkRATs are a complete loss; that's another show, entirely.


39 posted on 06/16/2004 6:59:50 AM PDT by 7.62 x 51mm ( )
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To: fatidic

But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohamedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind.

LUMEN GENTIUM
Nevertheless, the religiosity of Muslims deserves respect. It is impossible not to admire, for example, their fidelity to prayer. The image of believers in Allah who, without caring about time or place, fall to their knees and immerse themselves in prayer remains a model for all those who invoke the true God, in particular for those Christians who, having deserted their magnificent cathedrals, pray only a little or not at all.
"Crossing the Threshold of Hope" by Pope John Paul II

Gee. There's the President and there's visible head of the Christian Church, and then there's you.

40 posted on 06/16/2004 7:10:35 AM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Cultural Jihad
I wonder how much of the angst of these yahoos is really just bloodthirsty-driven envy.

You hint at the underlying cause, if only obliquely. I never understand why educated people like the author can't look past the religious issues and address the real issue: namely, absent a religion, the people who embrace the more violent aspects of Islam would have created some other justification for war and terror.

Let's examine this statement a little closer. What it says is that there a certain people(s) who (1) have a limited IQ [ie they lack the intellectual capacity to explore/invent and otherwise interest themselves], and (2) are very violent. They don't actually need a religious basis (ditto Genghis Kha, Attila, et al) to justify their deeds. All they need is something to harness and focus their rage.

One could go on and posit that the Jews are the exact opposite (high IQ and very passive) and that their religion reflects this orientation - scholarly and reflective. Christians are somwhere in the middle - driven by exploration/experimentation and manifest humanity, but not shy about territorial/cultural expansion.

In each case, the adaptive religions are fairly recent. Evolution has been going on for millenia - religions that are 5k, 2k and 1.5 year old are as current as last year's World Series in real terms.

The real issue is: how do civilized people deal with primitive savages, regardless of their 'cause', be they common criminals, fascists, communists and now Islamics?

41 posted on 06/16/2004 7:37:53 AM PDT by Snerfling
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To: F14 Pilot

You're welcome! :)
Bmp^


42 posted on 06/16/2004 7:39:45 AM PDT by FBD (...Please press 2 for English...for Espanol, please stay on the line...)
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To: sheik yerbouty
"There is no god named Allah and Mohammed was a false prophet1 Allahu Fubar!"

Dear Sheik, you crack me up!Allah Fubar Indeed!

43 posted on 06/16/2004 7:55:06 AM PDT by strongbow
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To: Cultural Jihad; E Rocc
"...there's visible head of the Christian Church..."

WHAT???

The Pope is the Head of the Catholic Church.

Sorry Bud, I don't need an intercessor to talk to God, and I don't need the Pope PERIOD, to be a christian.

The Pope is NOT my head of anything, and he doesn't speak for anyone other than Catholics.

As for Muslims religiousity, they pray towards Saudi Arabia, not towards God, and that in itself speaks volumes about their "faith".

And as to muslims religiousity? After their prayers they run out in the streets and yell "Death to Americans! Death to Isreal!"

44 posted on 06/16/2004 8:16:52 AM PDT by FBD (...Please press 2 for English...for Espanol, please stay on the line...)
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To: Cultural Jihad; E Rocc; Snerfling
FROM THE KORAN ITSELF... ("HEIL HITLER" Now Upgraded to "ALLAH AKBAR?")

- "O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends." - [al-Ma'idah 5:51.11]

Here are but a few passages in the Qu'ran concerning fighting and killing for the cause of Allah:

-Muslims are encouraged to be wholly occupied (Sura 2:273) with fighting for Allah's cause. - Allah will give "a far richer recompense to those who fight for him" (Sura 4:96).

- Regarding infidels:
(unbelievers), they are the Muslim's "inveterate enemies" (Sura 4:101).

-Muslims are to "arrest them, besiege them and lie in ambush everywhere" (Sura 9:5) for them.

-They are to "seize them and put them to death wherever you find them, kill them wherever you find them, seek out the enemies of Islam relentlessly" (Sura 4:90).

-"Fight them until Islam reigns supreme" (Sura 2:193).

"Cut off their heads, and cut off the tips of their fingers" (Sura 8:12).

- If a Muslim does not go to war, Allah will kill him (Sura 9:39). He is to be told, "the heat of war is fierce, but more fierce is the heat of Hell-fire" (Sura 9:81).

- A Muslim must "fight for the cause of Allah with the devotion due to him" (Sura 22:78)

- Muslims must make war on the infidels (unbelievers) who live around them (Sura 9:123).

- Muslims are to be "ruthless to unbelievers" (Sura 48:29).

- A Muslim should "enjoy the good things" he has gained by fighting (Sura 8:69).

- A Muslim can kill any person he wishes if it be a "just cause" (Sura 6:152).

- Allah loves those who "fight for his cause" (Sura 61:3). Anyone who fights against Allah or renounces Islam in favor of another religion shall be "put to death or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off alternative sides" (Sura 5:34).

- Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him." Sahih Al-Bukhari (Sura- 9:57)

- Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Koran 9:5)

- ( the unbeliever)"Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire." (Koran 69:30-37)

- I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them. (Koran 8:12)

- They should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides. (Koran 5:33) - "Know that paradise is under the shades of swords." - Sahih al-Bukhari Vol 4 p55

And as for treatment of women:

"Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.
- Koran, Surah IV: 34, "The Women."

ISLAM- The Religion of BIGOTRY, MISOGENY, AND HATRED; and the words of their "Prophet" Muhammed, who in fact killed hundreds of people by beheading them, confirms it.

45 posted on 06/16/2004 8:39:27 AM PDT by FBD (...Please press 2 for English...for Espanol, please stay on the line...)
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To: Cultural Jihad; E Rocc; Happy2BMe; Snerfling; F14 Pilot
The Enemy Is Not Just Al Qaeda

"...Al-Banna’s vision was in perfect accord with that of classical Muslim scholars such as Ibn Khaldun, who taught in the fourteenth century that:
“in the Muslim community, the holy war is a religious duty, because of the universalism of the Muslim mission and (the obligation to) convert everybody to Islam either by persuasion or by force.”[5]

In a similar spirit, Al-Banna wrote in 1934:
“it is a duty incumbent on every Muslim to struggle towards the aim of making every people Muslim and the whole world Islamic, so that the banner of Islam can flutter over the earth and the call of the Muezzin can resound in all the corners of the world: [Allahu Akbar]! ( God is greatest )

46 posted on 06/16/2004 9:08:08 AM PDT by FBD (...Please press 2 for English...for Espanol, please stay on the line...)
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To: All
"Muslims do not need patronizing liberals to meet them halfway;
Muslims need to write an honest biography of the prophet that does not shun the truth, least of all cover it up with the dishonest subterfuge of condescending western scholars"
-Ibn Warraq
Author of; "Why I Am Not A Muslim", "Studies on Muhammed", and the "Rise of Islam".
Warraq is an Arab.

47 posted on 06/16/2004 10:22:39 AM PDT by FBD (...Please press 2 for English...for Espanol, please stay on the line...)
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To: FBD
I agree with what you are stating. My point is, in the absence of the Koran, violent/retarded societies would have to create one. Religion is a man-made belief system - as such, it merely reflects its society/culture.

My concern isn't with Islam - that's merely a symptom for what really ails these primitive savages. The West's problem is how to deal with lesser developed peoples. If it wasn't for the danger of OUR advanced technology being used against us, we could go back to ignoring them.

But, of course, that is not the case, so the challenge is how to beat them when 1/2 of our own people want us to lose as well.

48 posted on 06/16/2004 11:18:00 AM PDT by Snerfling
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To: Cultural Jihad
Christians and Muslims do not worship the same god. The God of the Bible has a totally different nature and relationship with His creation than Allah's. The two gods are diametrically opposed to the aims of the other. Though Muslims claim to worship the same god as Christians and claim to revere the same prophets, this, too, is patently impossible because the Koran's version of these prophets has nothing in common with the Bible's version except their names.

I feel sorry when I see a Muslim slave pray to a demonic god knowing that all they believe is a monstrous lie and the fruits of their faith produces more a culture of hate, fear, cruelty and bondage of the human spirit.
49 posted on 06/16/2004 11:32:00 AM PDT by fatidic (fatidic : of or relating to prophecy)
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To: dennisw
one day the Americans will find themselves in a chemical war and most likely in an atomic war — inside the U.S.

This will be the day that Islam dies.

50 posted on 06/16/2004 11:38:47 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (Resolve to perform what you must; perform without fail that what you resolve.)
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