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Space Vision Misunderestimated
Tech Central Station ^ | June 15, 2004 | Charles Rousseaux

Posted on 06/15/2004 2:59:12 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife

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To: TigerTale
Perhaps you are right, and an X2 objective would be out of the reach of private industry

I don't think it's "out of reach" technically, as the technical details are actually very well known, and we already know they can be achieved.

The problem is that private industry has to be able to make money on their product. That's the sticking point -- is there really a market for a private manned spaceflight capability? Is there a reason for company X to choose a manned flight over an expendable? At some point the answer will probably be "yes," but a lot of things have to happen before then.

41 posted on 06/15/2004 11:31:32 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: r9etb
is there really a market for a private manned spaceflight capability?

If it can be done safely and reliably, I am confident there would be a market for same-day, round-the-world package delivery and passenger service. Not for everything and everyone, of course--but there are some things, and some people, which would "absolutely positively have to be there this afternoon," if the technology allowed it.

42 posted on 06/15/2004 11:35:08 AM PDT by TigerTale (From the streets of Tehran to the Gulf of Oman, let freedom ring.)
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To: TigerTale

If SpaceShipOne is costing roughly $50 million, the orbital version would be over $1 billion. It's not like 60 miles high is halfway to orbit, even though orbit is halfway to anywhere.


43 posted on 06/15/2004 11:46:41 AM PDT by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: RightWhale
If SpaceShipOne is costing roughly $50 million, the orbital version would be over $1 billion.

Yeah, orbital capability would be much more difficult than the X-Prize objective.

If you scale the purse for a theoretical X2 prize in proportion to the numbers cited above, it comes out to more than $200 million. I don't know if that would be enough incentive for a project which might run $1 billion. I also don't know if the X-Prize Foundation could raise that much.

I actually didn't realize SpaceShipOne was costing so much. Rutan must have commerical plans beyond the X-Prize, if he is spending five times as much as the purse to win.

44 posted on 06/15/2004 11:54:35 AM PDT by TigerTale (From the streets of Tehran to the Gulf of Oman, let freedom ring.)
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To: TigerTale
Rutan must have commerical plans beyond the X-Prize, if he is spending five times as much as the purse to win.

Perhaps. OTOH, Paul Allen (Microsoft Tycoon) is Rutan's biggest money guy. $50 million to him may be his idea of charity. The X-prize is cool, and Rutan's SS-1 is definitely cool. There may be not much more to this than two guys doing something neat.

45 posted on 06/15/2004 12:07:36 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: r9etb
Paul Allen (Microsoft Tycoon) is Rutan's biggest money guy. $50 million to him may be his idea of charity.

I forgot about Allen. He does seem to spend his money on whatever suits his fancy. You are right--they may not be interested in making a profit.

46 posted on 06/15/2004 12:11:11 PM PDT by TigerTale (From the streets of Tehran to the Gulf of Oman, let freedom ring.)
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To: TigerTale

They said $30 a few months ago, but then their investors came with some more, so probably $50 is in the ballpark.


47 posted on 06/15/2004 12:18:40 PM PDT by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: RightWhale; Brett66; xrp; gdc314; sionnsar; *Space; anymouse; RadioAstronomer; NonZeroSum; ...
At least Bush is going in the right direction.

Space Ping! This is the Space Ping List! Let me know if you want on or off this list!
48 posted on 06/15/2004 6:41:29 PM PDT by KevinDavis (Let the meek inherit the Earth, the rest of us will explore the stars!)
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To: RadioAstronomer

For your consideration.
""Ping""


49 posted on 06/15/2004 6:49:16 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

As well as getting there first, we're going to have to remain dominant in space technology and infrastructure. Russia has pretty similar ideals to ours now, so they shouldn't be as big of ideological foes. The real deal is China and other people of various ideologies who will get on board our space elevators and such so that they can get into space and criticize and attack the Americans who got them there.


50 posted on 06/15/2004 8:23:28 PM PDT by unibrowshift9b20
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To: TigerTale
I saw a Scaled Composites design for a SpaceShipOne V2.0. It was identical looking to the SS1 except it was larger and could carry 6 passengers. It was still a sub-orbital vehicle. The X-Prize organization has stated that they intend to offer other prizes after the Ansari is won. Such prizes as highest altitude, fastest turnaround times, etc. I think a lot of new money will suddenly start flowing into these sub-orbital companies once the SS1 flies into space. Through engineering incrementalism the capabilities of these new spacecraft can be expanded until orbital velocity is attained.

Of course there is Elon Musk with his rockets and he's planning on bypassing sub-orbital altogether. He should be sending his first payloads into orbit later this year, with his Falcon V rocket launching next year which could be man-rated.

51 posted on 06/15/2004 9:13:36 PM PDT by Brett66
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To: Brett66

SS1 is a prize-winner / proof-of-concept bird. The Ansari money is strictly laginappe; if successful, Scaled will likely present Mr. Allen with a suite of designs for larger private spacecraft (including orbit-capable ships) based upon the lessons and techniques proven in the SS1 program which will enable him to bootstrap a commercial passenger service to space into existence.

(A militarized SS1 would also fill some interesting gaps in the Pentagon’s space capabilities chart. I’d be surprised if there’s not something interesting in that vein in the works already.)

SpaceX has the Falcon 1 vehicle built and ready to fly; the larger Falcon 5 is still on the drawing board as far as I know.


52 posted on 06/16/2004 12:21:36 AM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: KevinDavis

Trying to figure out Kerry's space vision. Seems he says Bush's space vision is long on goals but short on resources. Would Kerry pump more resources into NASA? Hem and haw. Have to weight that against reducing the deficit and funding social programs. In other words, NO. Forget it, Kerry.


53 posted on 06/16/2004 9:05:44 AM PDT by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: Brett66

Can you tell me where I can get more info on This Falcon rocket!


54 posted on 06/16/2004 9:12:44 AM PDT by Empireoftheatom48 (God bless our troops!! Our President and those who fight against the awful commie, liberal left!!)
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To: RightWhale
Seems he says Bush's space vision is long on goals but short on resources.

Kerry's schtick is incoherent criticism. If elected, he won't govern, the polls will.

55 posted on 06/16/2004 9:13:26 AM PDT by hopespringseternal (People should be banned for sophistry.)
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To: hopespringseternal

I rate candidates on the basis of their attitude toward space development. Single issue, other things such as abortion and Second Amendment being equal between candidates. Kerry has just issued his space policy statement and he has flopped. He is a space nincompoop.


56 posted on 06/16/2004 9:18:11 AM PDT by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: RightWhale

If people suddenly acquire an intense, sustained interest in space, Kerry will be your man. In any reasonably likely future, the best NASA can hope for is benign neglect.


57 posted on 06/16/2004 9:22:02 AM PDT by hopespringseternal (People should be banned for sophistry.)
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To: hopespringseternal
If people suddenly acquire an intense, sustained interest in space, Kerry will be your man.

My neighbor's dog knows more about space business. If I had to choose going bird hunting between Clinton, Gore, or Kerry, it would be no contest.

58 posted on 06/16/2004 9:29:47 AM PDT by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: Empireoftheatom48

Click here:

http://www.spacex.com


59 posted on 06/16/2004 10:06:57 AM PDT by Brett66
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To: All
Report of the President's Commission on Implementation of United States: Space Exploration Policy A Journey to Inspire, Innovate, and Discover
60 posted on 06/16/2004 2:43:21 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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