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Scientists Transfer Info Between Atoms (Star Trek Teleportation is REAL!)
Local 6 News ^ | 6-16-2004 | AP

Posted on 06/16/2004 1:54:18 PM PDT by vannrox

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To: techcor
"How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all".

so John Kerry is going to pull an algore and claim he invented this thing....before he didn't invent it.

51 posted on 06/16/2004 2:27:23 PM PDT by ZinGirl
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To: Willie Green
Transporter technology is cool, but I wish they'd work on the food replicators first.

Two words. Penthouse Holodeck.

52 posted on 06/16/2004 2:27:30 PM PDT by Dr.Deth
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To: AntiGuv

I thought they'd said that Heisenburg made accurate data transmission via entanglement impossible. Has something changed in the theory?


53 posted on 06/16/2004 2:27:39 PM PDT by NJ_gent
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To: techcor

Thats what I get for responding to another thread first....oh well. You snooze, you lose.


54 posted on 06/16/2004 2:28:17 PM PDT by Feiny (I can resist anything but temptation.)
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To: techcor

It's been awhile, i used to know most of them by heart.

yeah Jason Alexander would be great.

55 posted on 06/16/2004 2:29:07 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist )
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To: cripplecreek
From everything I've read it would require computing power that may very well be out of reach forever

Forever is a long, long time. Who knows what the next breakthrough might be?

Flying cars OTOH...

56 posted on 06/16/2004 2:29:39 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (I want to die in my sleep like Gramps -- not yelling and screaming like those in his car)
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To: B Knotts

This is something I've been interested in for a number of years. The "Entanglement" is somewhat explained in the partial post below. I copied from "American Physics news, still dont know how to post links properly, but copy and paste should work.

http://www.aip.org/enews/physnews/1997/split/pnu350-1.htm

Story #1), December 10, 1997 by Phillip F. Schewe and Ben Stein

QUANTUM TELEPORTATION has been experimentally demonstrated by physicists at the University of Innsbruck (Anton Zeilinger, 011-43-676-305-8608, anton.zeilinger@ uibk.ac.at; Dik Bouwmeester, Dik.Bouwmeester@uibk.ac.at). First proposed in 1993 by Charles Bennett of IBM (914-945-3118) and his colleagues, quantum teleportation allows physicists to take a photon (or any other quantum-scale particle, such as an atom), and transfer its properties (such as its polarization) to another photon--even if the two photons are on opposite sides of the galaxy. Note that this scheme transports the particle's properties to the remote location and not the particle itself.

And as with Star Trek's Captain Kirk, whose body is destroyed at the teleporter and reconstructed at his destination, the state of the original photon must be destroyed to create an exact reconstruction at the other end. In the Innsbruck experiment, the researchers create a pair of photons A and B that are quantum mechanically "entangled": the polarization of each photon is in a fuzzy, undetermined state, yet the two photons have a precisely defined interrelationship. If one photon is later measured to have, say, a horizontal polarization, then the other photon must "collapse" into the complementary state of vertical polarization. In the experiment, one of the entangled photons A arrives at an optical device at the exact time as a "message" photon M whose polarization state is to be teleported. These two photons enter a device where they become indistinguishable, thus effacing our knowledge of M's polarization (the equivalent of destroying Kirk).What the researchers have verified is that by ensuring that M's polarization is complementary to A's, then B's polarization would now have to assume the same value as M's. In other words, although M and B have never been in contact, B has been imprinted with M's polarization value, across the whole galaxy, instantaneously. This does not mean that faster-than-light information transfer has occurred. The people at the sending station must still convey the fact that teleportation had been successful by making a phone call or using some other light-speed or sub-light-speed means of communication. While physicists don't foresee the possibility of teleporting large-scale objects like humans, this scheme will have uses in quantum computing and cryptography. (D. Bouwmeester et al., Nature, 11 Dec 1997; see also image at Physics News Graphics)


57 posted on 06/16/2004 2:30:58 PM PDT by Iron Matron (Those who serve two masters also have two faces)
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To: jennyp

i still miss those guys... they have a website too with some new stuff on it.

58 posted on 06/16/2004 2:32:20 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist )
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To: jennyp

Don't go out in that cellophane.


59 posted on 06/16/2004 2:32:24 PM PDT by wordsofearnest (As a matter of fact I like beer.)
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To: NJ_gent
Has something changed in the theory?

One would think so. That's the way it has been going in science, something new is observed and next thing you know there are papers and conferences and a new symbol appears in the equations. Quantum entanglement is sure interesting, but it is hard to work with and there aren't a lot of observations yet. It may turn out to be very valuable and make all kinds of sci-fi things possible.

60 posted on 06/16/2004 2:32:24 PM PDT by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: holymoly

.


It's SPOCK..!!!!


.


61 posted on 06/16/2004 2:32:40 PM PDT by ALOHA RONNIE (Vet-Battle of IA DRANG-1965 http://www.LZXRAY.com)
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To: boris
Given that converting a human body to pure energy would probably liberate enough energy to destroy the Earth

Not even close.

To destroy the Earth and create an asteroid belt you would need roughly a 60km sphere of antimatter with a density approaching nickel-iron.

A 200 lb man turned to antimatter would release about 3.89 Teratons of TNT in an equivalent explosion. By way of comparison it would be somewhere between the K-T impact event and the energy required to disrupt the planet's atmosphere. Still, it's orders of magnitude less than required to destroy the Earth.

Of course it just would kill most every living thing on the planet.

1.8E+17 J/g Antimatter
4.19E+12 J / kiloton

62 posted on 06/16/2004 2:33:15 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (Resolve to perform what you must; perform without fail that what you resolve.)
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To: D_Idaho

Your intellect?

That's an interesting question. If you believe in remote viewing....the Ingo Swann stuff, not the Dr. Doom (Ed Dames) stuff.....you can read where there were several experiments done where the projection of thought was intantaneous....as in "at the same time" the experiments registered the results at the same time, in the US and Europe.

Not to hijack the thread, but Ingo did many government sponsored experiments in the early 70's describing the surfaces of Saturn, Neptune, etc.....all the scientists regarded him as a pure nutter at the time. As our planetary probes did their fly-bys during the last 30 years, his descriptions have been proven to be spot on.

Just something to ponder.....


63 posted on 06/16/2004 2:33:16 PM PDT by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: Petronski
but hey, don't you have a keg on tap in your home?

Nah. With all the six-packs that are sold in supermarkets around here,
I haven't the slightest idea where I'd go to find a decent selection of kegs.
Gotta go all the way back to Pennsylvania to find a good beer distributor.

64 posted on 06/16/2004 2:34:00 PM PDT by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: freedumb2003
Flying cars OTOH...

I want one with a bumper sticker which says "NOW it's the 21st Century!"

65 posted on 06/16/2004 2:34:07 PM PDT by TigerTale (From the streets of Tehran to the Gulf of Oman, let freedom ring.)
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To: freedumb2003

"Forever is a long, long time. Who knows what the next breakthrough might be?"


Also true. 66 years from the Wright brothers first flight to a moon landing.


66 posted on 06/16/2004 2:35:16 PM PDT by cripplecreek (you tell em i'm commin.... and hells commin with me.)
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To: RightWhale
Inexplicable Communion Theory

Hey, I like that! =)

67 posted on 06/16/2004 2:35:17 PM PDT by AntiGuv (When the countdown hits zero - something's gonna happen..)
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To: Kirkwood

Darn! Don't I feel like such a fool by making great fun of all those cool guys attending Star Trek Conventions while I stayed home and merely got laid!


68 posted on 06/16/2004 2:36:07 PM PDT by Bluntpoint
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To: vannrox

This is more like "Subspace communications".


69 posted on 06/16/2004 2:36:17 PM PDT by Paradox (Occam was probably right.)
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To: vannrox

Is this really 'teleportation' or the near-instantaneous creation of a copy?

Big difference...


70 posted on 06/16/2004 2:36:44 PM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
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To: AntiGuv

Well, it is kind of catchy, and of course, it is yours by right of copyright.


71 posted on 06/16/2004 2:36:50 PM PDT by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: spodefly

7 of 9... isn't there a corroloary to the Kornikova rule?


72 posted on 06/16/2004 2:37:05 PM PDT by Yehuda (http://PostNineEleven.blogspot.com/)
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To: ALOHA RONNIE

Fascinating

73 posted on 06/16/2004 2:39:01 PM PDT by COEXERJ145
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To: TigerTale
After doing some googling, it appears that quantum transporation is not necessarily superluminal, because it must use a "classical information channel."

But all this stuff is beyond my feeble understanding of physics.

74 posted on 06/16/2004 2:39:09 PM PDT by B Knotts
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To: Doctor Stochastic
Thus you would be only 25% fly with the new setup.

Talk about a buzz kill...

75 posted on 06/16/2004 2:40:04 PM PDT by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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To: B Knotts
I guess that should read quantum transportation of information is not necessarily superluminal.
76 posted on 06/16/2004 2:42:29 PM PDT by B Knotts
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To: bunkerhill7
When Lex Luthor aimed a Duplicator Ray at Superman, without his knowledge, the result was Bizarro.

I understand that the same kind of thing happened to Al Gore.

77 posted on 06/16/2004 2:42:33 PM PDT by Zeppo
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To: RightWhale
Oooh - you're right!

Inexplicable Communion Theory ©

There - that's better! =)

78 posted on 06/16/2004 2:44:54 PM PDT by AntiGuv (When the countdown hits zero - something's gonna happen..)
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To: Yehuda
7 of 9... isn't there a corroloary to the Kornikova rule?

I believe the "Kornikova rule" is actually a corrolary to the "Anne Coulter Rule". Nonetheless, the principle is applicable across all posts referring to Anna K., Anne C., 7 of 9, and Laurie Dhue.


79 posted on 06/16/2004 2:47:40 PM PDT by spodefly (This post meets the minimum daily requirements for cynicism and irony.)
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To: AntiGuv

Absolutyly secure, uncrackable, unjamable, military communications.


80 posted on 06/16/2004 2:54:18 PM PDT by patton (I wish we could all look at the evil of abortion with the pure, honest heart of a child.)
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To: RightWhale
"Has something changed in the theory?"

One would think so. That's the way it has been going in science, something new is observed and next thing you know there are papers and conferences and a new symbol appears in the equations. Quantum entanglement is sure interesting, but it is hard to work with and there aren't a lot of observations yet. It may turn out to be very valuable and make all kinds of sci-fi things possible.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but Heisenburg simply states that you can't know both the location and the velocity of a given subatomic particle at the same time--the more accurately you pin down one, the "fuzzier" the other gets. We can still accurately detect spin just fine, so how would this affect ansible communication?

I've also never been clear on how FTL communication wrecks havok with causality. After all, if you're observing a planet ten light years away and communicate with it instantaniously, it's not like your communiques arrive there ten years ago. It's the light waves from the planet that are ten years out of date, not the planet itself. Such communication might reveal that one or the other planet is aging more quickly due to relativistic effects, but what's the problem there?

81 posted on 06/16/2004 2:54:37 PM PDT by Buggman ("You can't tell a deaf Chinaman anything by whispering in French." --Protagoras)
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To: neverdem

Beam me up ping


82 posted on 06/16/2004 2:55:09 PM PDT by Born Conservative ("Nothing wrong with shooting as long as the right people get shot" - Dirty Harry)
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To: B Knotts

Yes...
and on pbs last year,
I saw a scientific program where a signal was accelorated from one state of existence to another, and actually arrived there microseconds before it was actually sent...
they used gravity or a super collidor to accelorate the data to a speed in excess of light.

I saw it on TWICE. It was hard to understand, as quantum theory escapes my ability to logically accept. Matter existing at a sub atomic level in more than two places at once.

technically speaking they say anything is possible in the (scary) world of quantum physics... which is where we ar headed... string theory seems to be confirmed by these little experiments.

the recording they tranferred WAS distorted, but was a musical passage recognizable in comparison to the original.. sort of like Bell's voice to his dog... on the first record.


83 posted on 06/16/2004 2:55:52 PM PDT by Robert_Paulson2 (the madridification of our election is now officially underway.)
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To: randog

No, they have to use the smallest particles possible... Republican testicles.


84 posted on 06/16/2004 2:56:42 PM PDT by thoughtomator (No Gays = No AIDS; No Arabs = No Terror; No French = No Appeasement)
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To: techcor

Don't crush that dwarf, hand ME the pliers.


85 posted on 06/16/2004 2:57:15 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: AntiGuv

I always thought that Inexplicable Communion Theory was actually explicable after all -- that the entangled particles are joined in some higher dimension -- no matter how far apart they appear in three dimensions they are adjacent (or occupy the same space) in a higher dimension. Thus limitations of the speed of light pertaining to information transmission are not violated in the higher dimension. I'll go back to the terror thread now, where I am more qualified.


86 posted on 06/16/2004 2:58:30 PM PDT by steve86
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To: Robert_Paulson2

Now that's weird...and kinda creepy.


87 posted on 06/16/2004 2:58:33 PM PDT by B Knotts
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To: vannrox

This is way cool.


88 posted on 06/16/2004 3:01:46 PM PDT by prairiebreeze (Proud in my refusal to purchase a copy of "My Lie".)
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To: BearWash
Yes, that's roughly my understanding as well, but that is a supposition of what they are doing, not an explanation of why and how they are doing it.
89 posted on 06/16/2004 3:06:36 PM PDT by AntiGuv (When the countdown hits zero - something's gonna happen..)
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To: Buggman
Wave functions have an imaginary component so the wave functions must be taken as a computational device not as a reality. The group velocity is associated with the velocity of the particle, but the wave packet is not the particle.

As to the other, we would not have a business interest in simple communication across the galaxy at this time, but in getting ourselves back and forth. That is the goal. Make it happen.

90 posted on 06/16/2004 3:07:19 PM PDT by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: NJ_gent; B Knotts

I don't know enough about the current state of the research and the physics underlying it to comment intelligently on those questions (causality & the uncertainty principle) as they're relevant here. But they are very good questions!


91 posted on 06/16/2004 3:08:58 PM PDT by AntiGuv (When the countdown hits zero - something's gonna happen..)
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To: D_Idaho

the omni present characteristics implicated by aspects of quantum and string theory.... sound familiar to God's description of his state of existence. Perhaps the matieral world has its reality, based on the immaterial, omnipresent realm of quantum... and perhaps that is where the human soul enters the material human reality, from an ominipresent God, who is its source.

God may not only be less than a breath away, he may be permeating us at every level on a quantum level... and we, him. making a lot of sense, of a lot of religious hobblety gob...

God may be transcendent or "above" us, but not in the physical sense, in the quantum sense. Perhaps all the energy and existence of good and evil flow from a yin and yang balance, that is of God's nature, on a quantum level... and perhaps when we pass, we don't go to heaven... it may be a place, on a quantum level that exists right here, right now, where we live and breathe... we just cannot see it until we are "liberated" from the rather "heavy" atomic material reality, in which we are accustomed to swimming.

Wouldn't surprise me, if all that Jesus spoke of, was NOT of this world... but permeating it at every level, while being unseen.

interesting.


92 posted on 06/16/2004 3:11:10 PM PDT by Robert_Paulson2 (the madridification of our election is now officially underway.)
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To: TigerTale
I was thinking something like...


93 posted on 06/16/2004 3:12:01 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (I want to die in my sleep like Gramps -- not yelling and screaming like those in his car)
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To: BearWash

The thing is, and apparently most people do not see this, there is only one atomic particle and we are seeing it over and over. They are all images connected because they are all the same one. There is something else going on that makes it look like a zillion instances of the particle in the universe. Don't imagine that there is an original particle somewhere that we can't see, because we actually see that particle all the time from different aspects.


94 posted on 06/16/2004 3:12:59 PM PDT by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: RightWhale
The group velocity is associated with the velocity of the particle, but the wave packet is not the particle.

Okay, just manipulate and measure the velocity then. It seems simple enough, in theory if not necessarily in practice.

As to the other, we would not have a business interest in simple communication across the galaxy at this time, but in getting ourselves back and forth. That is the goal. Make it happen.

I'd love to, to be honest, but I don't see it happening in my lifetime. Developing ansible communication, on the other hand and as has already been pointed out, has any number of applications beyond communicating with one's interstellar starships and colonies: The ultimate in uninterceptible communications, real-time control of our interplanetary missions, etc.

I'm just still unclear on why FTL communications would cause such paradoxes that they must be impossible, as some here claim.

95 posted on 06/16/2004 3:15:18 PM PDT by Buggman ("You can't tell a deaf Chinaman anything by whispering in French." --Protagoras)
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To: Buggman
I'm just still unclear on why FTL communications would cause such paradoxes

I can't help with that since I don't see a problem either.

96 posted on 06/16/2004 3:19:12 PM PDT by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: boris
Unless you want two (2) copies you must destroy the original (the scanning process might do that anyway), which means murdering Commander Ryker #1, which might present some wee legal complications. If you don't murder Commander Ryker #1, we have two of him, same fingerprints, same SSN, same address. #2 owns one-half of everything owned by number One, and he can prove it.

Reminds me of a very similar dilemma in the sci-fi short story "Think Like a Dinosaur." Basically teleportation involved completely copying someone at Point A and reassembling them at Point B. Then Point A person was killed in order to "maintain balance."

97 posted on 06/16/2004 3:19:45 PM PDT by Future Snake Eater ("Oh boy, I can't wait to eat that monkey!"--Abe Simpson)
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To: bunkerhill7
But Blue Kryptonite will. Superman's Fortress is in the Artic, Bizarro's is on a square planet in the Desert.

Hah! Planets are not in deserts. Deserts are on planets. Guess those comic strip guys don't think of everything.

98 posted on 06/16/2004 3:21:32 PM PDT by VadeRetro (Going off half-cocked is for people with the patience to hold off that long.)
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To: cripplecreek

From everything I've read it would require computing power that may very well be out of reach forever.

Using present day computing power it would take a hundred years to crack  the most secure encryption available -- using quantum-computer processing it would take a few seconds. We'll have that in a decade or two at the most... Imagine the computing power achieved in say fifty or one hundred years.

99 posted on 06/16/2004 3:23:21 PM PDT by Zon
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To: RightWhale
Ah, good. I was worried that I was missing something stupidly simple.

Off topic, but have you checked out the Starship Design Project? They've got some interesting ideas on how to go about building a sublight interstellar ship.

100 posted on 06/16/2004 3:24:41 PM PDT by Buggman ("You can't tell a deaf Chinaman anything by whispering in French." --Protagoras)
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