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Insider Report ^ | FR Post 6-16-2004 | Larry Abraham

Posted on 06/16/2004 6:07:04 PM PDT by vannrox

Larry Abraham

I urge all of my readers to make copies of this report and send them to your friends and relatives. The information is too critical to be overlooked in the madness of this election year.

Part I of this essay was written in January before the Democrat Party primaries settled anything and before the occupation of Iraq took a turn for the worse. However, it is now more obvious that what I wrote about the nature of the Third Great Jihad is all too true. The political picture has deteriorated in Europe and the U.S .to a great degree since then so Part II takes these developments into consideration. Again, I urge all of you to distribute this essay as far and wide as possible without any concern for copyright violation. Our fellow citizens need to know the true nature of what we all face. LHA

As we watch and listen to all the Democrat Party candidates running for the nomination of their party, it is tantamount to enduring the Chinese water torture. The blah, blah, blah goes on and nothing of value comes out except the pain of listening to the same nothingness over and over again. I won’t take the time or space to repeat what you have heard so many, mind numbing times over the past months but what you have not heard is crucial.

I must also fault President Bush and the administration spokesmen for not telling the American people what they really need to know about this “war”. If they don’t do that sometime between now and November it may cost them the election.

It Did Not Start on 9/11

The war we are now facing did not begin on September 11, 2001, nor will it end with the peaceful transition to civilian authorities in Iraq, whenever that may be. In fact, Iraq is but a footnote in the bigger context of this encounter, but an important one none the less.

This war is what the Jihadists themselves are calling the “ Third Great Jihad” and are doing so within the framework of a time line which reaches back to the very creation of Islam in the Seventh century and their attempts to recreate the dynamics which gave rise to the religion in the first two hundred years of its existence.

No religion in history grew as fast, in its infancy, than did Islam and the reasons for this growth are not hard to explain when you understand what the world was like at the time of Muhammad’s death in 632 AD. The Western Roman Empire was in ruins and the Eastern Empire was based in Constantinople and trying desperately to keep the power of its early grandeur while transitioning to Christianity as a de facto state religion. The costs to the average person were unbearable as he was being required to meet the constantly rising taxes levied from the state along with the tithes coerced by the Church. What Islam offered was the “carrot or the sword”.

If you became a convert, your taxes were immediately eliminated, as was your tithe. If you didn’t, you faced death. The choice was not hard for most to make, unless you were a very devoted martyr in the making. At the beginning, even the theology was not too hard for most to swallow, considering that both Jewry and Christianity were given their due by the Prophet. There is but one God-Allah, and Muhammad is His Prophet, as was Jesus, and the pre-Christian Jewish prophets of the Torah (old testament). Both were called “children of the book”, the book being the Koran, which replaced both the Old and New testaments for Christians and Jews.

With this practical approach to spreading the “word” Islam grew like wild fire, reaching out from the Saudi Arabian Peninsula in all directions. This early growth is what the Muslims call the “first” great Jihad and it met with little resistance until Charles Martel of France, the father of Charlemagne, stopped them in the battle of Tours in France, after they had firmly established the religion on the Iberian peninsula. This first onslaught against the West continued in various forms and at various times until Islam was finally driven out of Spain in 1492 at the battle of Granada.

The “second great jihad” came with the Ottoman Turks. This empire succeeded in bringing about the downfall of Constantinople as a Christian stronghold and an end to Roman hegemony in all of its forms. The Ottoman Empire was Islam’s most successful expansion of territory even though the religion itself had fractured into warring sects and bitter rivalries with each claiming the ultimate truths in “the ways of the Prophet”. By 1683 the Ottomans had suffered a series of defeats on both land and sea and the final and failed attempt to capture Vienna set the stage for the collapse of any further territorial ambitions and Islam shrunk into various sheikhdoms, emir dominated principalities, and roving tribes of nomads. However, by this time a growing anti-western sentiment, blaming its internal failures on anyone but themselves, was taking hold and setting the stage for a new revival know has Wahhabism which came into full bloom under the House of Saud on the Arabian peninsula shortly before the onset of WWI. It is this Wahhabi version of Islam which has infected the religion itself, now finding adherents in almost all branches and sects, especially the Shiites. What this sect calls for is the complete and total rejection of anything and everything which is not based in the original teachings of The Prophet and it finds its most glaring practice in the policies of the Afgani Taliban or the Shiite practices of the late Ayatollah Khomeini in Iran. Its Ali Pasha (Field Marshall) is now known as Osama bin Laden, the leader of the “third Jihad”.

Jimmy Carter sets the stage

The strategy for this “holy war” did not begin with the planning of the destruction of the World Trade Center. It began with the plans for toppling the Shah of Iran back in the early 1970’s and culminated with his exile in 1979. With his plans and programs to “westernize” his country, along with his close ties to the U.S. and subdued acceptance of the State of Israel, the Shah was the soft target.

Thanks, in large part to the hypocritical and disastrous policies of the Jimmy Carter State Department the revolution was set into motion, the Shah was deposed, his arm forces scattered or murdered and stage one was complete. The Third Jihad now had a base of operations and the oil wealth to support its grand design or what they call the “Great Caliphate”.

The Great Caliphate

What this design calls for is the replacement of all secular leadership in any country with Muslim majorities. This would include, Egypt, Turkey, Pakistan, Indonesia, all the Emirates, Sudan, Tunisia, Libya, Algeria, Morocco, Yemen, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and finally what they call the “occupied territory” Israel.

As a part of this strategy, forces of the jihad will infiltrate governments and the military as a prelude to taking control, once the secular leadership is ousted or assassinated. Such was the case in Lebanon leading to the Syrian occupation and what was attempted in Egypt with the murder of Anwar Sadat, along with the multiple attempts on the lives of Hussein in Jordan, Mubarak of Egypt and Musharraf in Pakistan. Pakistan is a particular prize because of its nuclear weapons.

The long-range strategy of the Third Jihad counts on three strategic goals. 1. The U.S. withdrawing from the region just as it did in Southeast Asia, following Vietnam. 2. Taking control of the oil wealth in the Muslim countries, which would be upwards to 75% of known reserves, and 3. Using nuclear weapons or other WMDs to annihilate Israel. A further outcome of successfully achieving these objectives would be to place the United Nations as the sole arbiter in East/West negotiations.
Evidence of the Bush Administration awareness of this plan is found in the facts that immediately following the 9/11 attack, their first move was to shore up Pakistan and Egypt, believing that these two would be the next targets for al Qaeda while Americans focused on the disaster in New York. The administration also knew that the most important objective was to send a loud and clear message that the U.S. was in the region to stay, not only to shore up our allies but to send a message to the Jihadists. The attack on Afghanistan was necessary to break-up a secure al Qaeda base of operations and put their leadership on the run or in prison.

Why Iraq?

The war on Iraq also met a very strategic necessity in that no one knew how much collaboration existed between Saddam Hussein and the master planners of the Third Jihad or his willingness to hand off WMDs to terrorist groups including the PLO in Israel. What was known, were serious indications of on-going collaboration, as Saddam funneled money to families of suicide bombers attacking the Israelis and others in Kuwait.

What the U.S. needed to establish was a significant base of operations smack dab in the middle of the Islamic world, in a location which effectively cut it in half. Iraq was the ideal target for this and a host of other strategic reasons.

Leadership of various anti-American groups both here and abroad understood the vital nature of the Bush initiative and thus launched their demonstrations, world-wide, to “Stop The War”. Failing this, they also laid plans to build a political campaign inside the country, with the War in Iraq as a plebiscite, using a little know politician as the thrust point; Howard Dean. This helps to explain how quickly the Radical Left moved into the Dean campaign with both people and money, creating what the clueless media called the “Dean Phenomenon”.

By building on the left-wing base in the Democrat party and the “Hate Bush” liberals, the campaign has already resulted in a consensus among the aspirants, minus Joe Lieberman, to withdraw the U.S. from Iraq and turn the operation over to the U.N. And, if past is prologue, i.e. Vietnam, once the U.S. leaves it will not go back under any circumstances, possibly even the destruction of Israel.

Should George W. Bush be defeated in November and a new administration come to power we could expect to see the dominoes start to fall in the secular Islamic countries and The Clash of Civilizations would then become a life changing event in all of our lives.

What surprised the Jihadists following the 9/11 attack was how American sentiment mobilized around the president and a profound sense of patriotism spread across the country They were not expecting this reaction, based on what had happened in the past, nor were they expecting the determined resolve of the President himself. I believe that this is one of the reasons we have not had any further attacks within our borders. They are content to wait, just as one of their tactical mentors, V.I. Lenin admonished…”two steps forward, one step back”.

A couple of additional events serve as valuable footnotes to the current circumstances we face: the destruction of the human assets factor of the CIA during the Carter presidency, presided over by the late Senator Frank Church and Carter’s CIA Director, Admiral Stansfield Turner. This fact has plagued our intelligence agencies right up to this very day with consequences which are now obvious. Jimmy Carter is the one man who must bear the bulk of the responsibility for setting the stage of the Third Jihad. Americans should find little comfort in how the Democrat contenders constantly seek the “advice and counsel” of this despicable little hypocrite who now prances around with his Nobel Prize, while attacking President Bush with almost as much venom as his fellow Nobel Laureate, Yassir Arafat.

Lastly, we should not expect to see any meaningful cooperation from Western Europe, especially the French.
Since failing to protect their own interests in Algeria by turning the country over to the first of the Arab terrorists, Amid Ben Bella, the country itself is now occupied by Islamic immigrants totally twenty percent of the population.

We are in the battle of our lives which will go on for many years possibly even generations. If we fail to understand what we are facing or falter in the challenge of “knowing our enemy” the results will be catastrophic.

PART II (May 1, 2004)

Since writing the above, we have witnessed some frightening evidence in support of our hypothesis both internally and in other parts of the world.

The al Qaeda bombing in Madrid has emboldened our enemy into believing it can use terror as an instrument for democratic regime change. Based on what happened there, they may be right.

Kerry and bin Laden on the same page

John Kerry and other leaders of his party constantly refer to the United States as “acting unilaterally.” They give no credit whatsoever to countries like Great Britain, Poland, Italy, Australia or even tiny Honduras for putting their limited armed forces in harm’s way to support the U.S. led coalition in Iraq. It is little wonder that some are considering doing what Spain has done—pulling out. The leaders in these countries have spent considerable political capital in this effort, and have little to show for it as it relates to fostering good will with the American public. Couple that fact with Osama bin Ladin’s latest offer of withholding attacks on those who “quit” the coalition and you have all the elements for a Democrat party fostered “self-fulfilling prophecy” where the U.S. will be totally alone in the pacification of Iraq. John Kerry and the Bush critics persist in the “lie” of the U.S. going it “alone” in Iraq but Osama bin Laden knows differently and will use the Kerry rhetoric to help isolate the U.S. The terrorists now see themselves as political “king-makers”. They may be right.

Another aspect of the “anti-Bush” political axis is how both his political enemies and the main stream media take ghoulish delight in “the body count,” just as they did in the later days of Vietnam. Oh sure, they pay incidental homage to the memory of the young Americans who gave their lives in the greatest threat this country has ever faced, but they do so with all the sincerity of Madonna making a vow of chastity. As the body bags grow in number, they believe, so grows their political prospects. They may be right.

If the Bush administration is further weakened in the months leading up to the November elections, we will witness a heightened al Qaeda offensive in all parts of the world, including our own country, and especially in Iraq and nations surrounding it ,i.e., Pakistan, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Events within the past few days in Jordan not only make this argument but also point to the possibility of “what happened to the WMDs.”
Iran and Syria are daily growing more overt and bold in their support of insurgents within Iraq, believing that Bush has been so hurt by internal politics that he is powerless to act against them in any meaningful way. They may be right.

The Leftwing initiative, Political Correctness and Our Will to Win

Within our own country we are witnessing and almost insane application of “political correctness.” As the barbarism of radical Islam grows more apparent in the streets of the Middle East from Gaza to Basra, we see a cultural suicide taking place within our own schools and communities.

Our children are being taught from the Koran, our professors are preaching intifadah in their class rooms, and Muslim “call to prayer” loud speakers are blaring out from city halls. The more precarious our very existence becomes, the more our liberal brethren embrace their enemies. It is a Stockholm Syndrome which can only lead to the recruitment of young Muslims who will be willing to duplicate in the West what their co-religionists are doing in the streets of Israel and the market places of Baghdad. The liberal P.C. crowd say nothing about the silence of the Muslim religious leadership as it relates to the carnage of innocents but couldn’t speak out fast enough against the inspiration supplied to tens of millions of Christians by Mel Gibson’s The Passion of the Christ. They were put off by the movie’s “violence” and its alleged “fostering of anti-Semitism”. Movies must represent their “reality” as the real thing moves them not at all. Among liberal Jews in America, hatred of George W. Bush is only surpassed by their contempt for Ariel Sharon…Let them explain it, I am at a total loss to do so. Maybe they just miss seeing Bill Clinton smooching Yassir Arafat in the White House Rose Garden.

The “Reverend” Jesse Jackson is now calling the U.S. “guilty of crimes against humanity” as he sets out to mobilize the non-Islamic Left. None of the Democrat leadership says a word in opposition to Jackson’s treason or Hillary’s attacks on the President and U.S. policy in an Arabic newspaper, while in London. You can bet that al Jezeera didn’t miss a beat in their reporting of both events.

The campaign takes its toll

The campaign is seriously hurting Mr. Bush’s leadership role in the War on Terror. While ducking every new book critical of his initiative or trying to counter the partisan nitpicking of the 9/11 Commission, he has persisted in the misbegotten insistence of “installing democracy” in Iraq. Our purpose for being in that beleaguered country should be restricted to one purpose and one purpose only, to stop the expansion of The Third Jihad and provide a base for doing same in the neighboring areas. This can be done by sealing the borders, attacking anything that moves in violation of same and by making it clear to Syria and Iran that any participation on their part will be considered an “act of war”. Let the country be governed by the local tribes, Shiite in the south, Sunni in the central and Kurds in the north with a U.S. pro consul overseeing the military. Oil revenues could be spilt by population allocation. How about installing a Republic…it worked pretty well here with diverse populations.

The very idea that we should spend our sons and daughters blood or our tax dollars on trying to building a “democracy” in the region which has neither a history nor a desire for such, is sheer nonsense. The very essence of Islamic teaching speaks directly against this principle. Continuing on the current path can only result in fostering greater hatred for the “Great Satan”. Force is the only thing which is respected in that part of the world and this force need not be tied to “reform”. I suggest Mr. Rumsfled acquaint himself with a copy of Julius Caesar’s Gallic Wars and Sun Tsu’s Art of War. All the tactics and strategies necessary to subdue the Iraqi insurgents can be found in those two military gems.

Please not the UN

Bringing the U.N. to the party will only compound the problem without adding any accountability. The U.N. has been accused of many things over the years, but being a “democratic” institution has never been one of them. Just the latest scandal of the “Oil for Food” program should provide any thinking person with all the evidence they need to keep the U.N. at bay. But this doesn’t seem to bother the likes of the John Kerry’s of the world who prattle on as if the scam doesn’t even exist.

Just one example will make my case; the UN mandate in Israel, which has been in place since 1948. One more salient point needs to be made on this subject. There is no such thing as “The International Community.” There are only individual countries, each with its own agenda which is always self serving. The myth of a higher level of “moral authority” coming out of the UN as been one of the greater lies of the past half century, but it is a lie which persists in spite of a bloody record of hypocrisy, graft, genocide and “perpetual war for perpetual peace.” I have a suggestion for the 9/11 Commission:.Why don’t they look into what the UN was doing before the attack on the World Trade Center? If they do, they will find that exactly one week before, the UN was holding a Conference on Racism in Durbin, South Africa where the delegates voted overwhelmingly to condemn Israel, as “racist and terrorist.” The U.S., Canadian and Israeli delegates walked out in disgust. Nary a word was uttered about Saddam Hussein, al Qaeda, or the Taliban, to say nothing of what was happening in Rwanda while they crunched caviar on toast and washed it down with vintage Champaign. Genocide does not qualify as “racism” according to the UN “morality.” Neither we nor the world needs the UN to muck up what is already a very delicate situation. If given proper leadership every Middle Eastern country named above will throw in with the Coalition, for if they don’t they will be the next targets of the Third Great Jihad and the Great Caliphate. Pakistan is already showing the leadership which others will follow. What do you think moved Kadahaffi to cozy up to the U.S. and Great Britain? He fears the Jihadist more than he hates us.

Evil Does Exist

Our current crises, in meeting the threat of the Third Jihad, is one more example of how most Americans simply refuse to believe there is evil in this world and are willing to grant moral equivalence on any human action. Unless the crime is personalized such as in the case of Lacy Peterson, we lose interest quickly and become bored or at least not involved.

To try and understand what we are facing, look into the eyes of your son or grandson and try to fathom a mind which would take pride in strapping a bomb to his body and sending him out to kill himself and countless innocent people. Or in the case of your daughter or grand daughter, try to imagine a religion which commands you to mutilate her vagina to destroy her sex drive or demands you to stone her to death if she has sexual relations with a man other than of your choosing.

If you can comprehend these facts both intellectually and emotionally, then you will start to understand what we are facing in the months and years ahead, both at home and abroad.

The radicals of Islam will stop at nothing to destroy us and all we stand for. They see this war as their “entry to paradise” and a release from the miserable existence they have built for themselves within the confines of an evil and perverse religion. The Jihadist are NOT like us, nor most of their fellow Muslims. But, like terrorists everywhere they have silenced any criticisms from fellow Muslims through threat and intimidation and have, with the help of the ‘useful idiots” in the West, “created the appearance of popular support”.

If we are incapable of understanding these realities and acting accordingly, within the life time of everyone who reads these words, we will see our cherished way of like cease to exist and chaos become our lot. The Clash of Civilizations is now reaching out and touching all of us. May God grant us the wisdom and the courage to meet the challenge.

I respectfully dedicate the above to the memory of Pat Tillman and his 872 comrades who by their courage and willing sacrifice set an example for every American. May we be worthy of their “greatest love…”


Larry Abraham's


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 911; bush; clashofcivilizations; death; democrat; destruction; dnc; fear; globaljihad; history; islam; life; loss; past; poison; terror; war; wtc
Really a worth while read.
1 posted on 06/16/2004 6:07:06 PM PDT by vannrox
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To: vannrox

"Really a worth while read."

It certainly is. I made several copies and have distributed them.

A while back, in an earlier thread, questions were raised. I inquired of the author and was given a swift reply.

2 posted on 06/16/2004 6:17:44 PM PDT by wingman1 (University of Vietnam '70)
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To: sauropod

read later

3 posted on 06/16/2004 6:23:09 PM PDT by sauropod (Which would you prefer? "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" or "I did not have sex with that woman?)
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4 posted on 06/16/2004 6:33:41 PM PDT by DoctorMichael (The Fourth Estate is a Fifth Column!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: vannrox

The key to islam is the life of the 'prophet' - kill mohammed and islam dies. Read the biography that explains how the koran was 'revealed' to a psychopath.

Mel Gibson made a film about Jesus. I think it's time for a blockbuster movie on the subject of muhammad. Edward Sell's biography, published in 1913 is filled with arabic sources - the truth can not be denied.

People will not take the time to study history or read a book, but they will go to see a film. Give them the truth as entertainment. THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD needs to be in flashing lights all over the world.

Hey, read the book - it's free, click on Fred Nerks.

5 posted on 06/16/2004 6:45:34 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (Understanding Evil: Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD free pdf. Click Fred Nerks.)
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To: vannrox

big bump

6 posted on 06/16/2004 6:48:20 PM PDT by Khurkris (Will the wind ever remember the names it has blown in the past, It whispers no this will be the last)
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To: vannrox


7 posted on 06/16/2004 6:53:48 PM PDT by prophetic
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To: vannrox
The portion of Abraham's article outlining the spread of Islam and the issues that faced the Eastern Roman/Byzantine Empire can be found in Hilaire Belloc's The Great Heresies in the 4th chapter.

One critique I have of Belloc's book is that he doesn't refute the heresies with Scripture. Jesus refuted the Accuser using the Old Testament alone when Jesus fasted for 40 days in the desert, for example.

8 posted on 06/16/2004 6:55:56 PM PDT by Bosco (Remember how you felt on September 11?)
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To: vannrox


9 posted on 06/16/2004 7:04:12 PM PDT by ODC-GIRL (President Reagan: A life well lived, he will be missed.)
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To: wingman1

A biz associate fwd this essay to me just this past Monday. We were talking about the mall bomb plot in Columbus, Ohio.

I could not find enough info via google on the author's bio. From his website I think he's a gold speculator with a fee newsletter.

What are his credentials to postulate on this "Third Great Jihad"


10 posted on 06/16/2004 7:05:00 PM PDT by Captiva (DVC)
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To: vannrox; wingman1; sauropod; ijcr; Riley; mo; DoctorMichael; Fred Nerks; Khurkris; prophetic; ...
Totally true. This is indeed a clash of civilizations, and people need to wake up to that fact. Yesterday i was in the gents (don't ask) listening to this dude talking on O'Reilly's show. Basically the guy (some member of some think-tank thingimajig) was advocating 'negotiations with the terrorists.' Honestly I just started to shout .....I even surprised myself.

How do you in goodness name negotiate with terrorists?

The guy was saying that it worked against the Soviets and all that, and hence it would work against al Queda and its ilk. And that, in my opinion, is the biggest weapon that Islamic-based terrorism has against the West (especially the US, which has been largely sheltered from its effects sans 9-11. True, there have been attacks long before 9-11, but those did not hit home at all. They were 'overseas'). Islamic-based terrorism is viewed by many in the public as just another nefarious enemy. As the 'thing that took over the vacuum left by the Soviets.' The funny thing is that they are totally different beasts!

The USSR had the ability to destroy our way of life we had the power to smite them in a nigh biblical manner! Their brain-boxes were thinking of stratagems of gaining the upper hand over us, while our master-planners were delving into ways of winning over them. It was a game whereby any stupid move would lead to certain destruction on both sides .....there would have been no true winner, only relativity and radioactivity.

However the Soviets were better than the Islamic hordes! Why? Because they were people who acted like people. They had dreams and aspirations beyond 'crushing the US' (even Kruschev LOL). They loved their kids. And they did not believe there was a god demanding the death of Americans and promising virgins for matyrdom.

Al Queda and its ilk are different. Usama himself has said it is a religious mandate to nuke the US. We all saw people drive airplanes into buildings! Every so often we here of some loony in Israel blowing himself/herself up in some cafe or marketplace!

They are not logical. Thus they cannot be negotiated with. If they ever agreed to any of our demands it would only mean they are buying for time. There is no way they will ever stop unless we stop them.

However there are people (like the 'gent') who think that terrorists can be negotiated with. They fail to see the true nature of the horror and enemy we face ...or maybe they do, but find it easier to imagine them as 'maligned folk who can be reasoned with and placated.' Goodness ....even the French don't p^$$yfoot with Islamic terror (the things they do to Algerian terrorists in France makes Abu Ghraib, the Dems fave wag-the-finger-topic, seem like a summer picnic). Simply because Al Queda and its ilk are as different from Western (and Westernized) civilization as one can go without sprouting tentancles and growing third eyes!

Oh, and if the Democrats want to use Al Queda as a tactical tool against the Bush administration they need to realize that in the perception of terrorists the only difference between Bush and Kerry is that Kerry is taller and Bush likes cowboy hats! The important thing to Al Queda is both are American!

And if Kerry doubts that then he needs to ask the 200+ Kenyans who died and 2,000+ injured in '98 so that Usama could kill 12 Americans in the embassy; or the tourists who died in Bali; or the Iraqis who died in the car blast this week in order to get a couple of Americans! If the terrorists are willing to slay a score, dozens, even hundreds of non-Americans in order to get a number of Americans, what would they do if they were able to sneak into this country and do something huge? If the enemy is willing to destroy myriads of non-Americans in order to get even one American, what then would he do to Americans if he had the ability to 'touch' them?

Now, any prudent 3rd grader would say 9-11, but it seems as if many in the left (and right) have thought 9-11 was just an abberation. It wasn't was a harbinger of what is to come unless we stop treating this fight for our lives as some minstrel show and start viewing, and treating it, as an ongoing global war!

11 posted on 06/16/2004 7:07:18 PM PDT by spetznaz (Nuclear missiles: The ultimate Phallic symbol.)
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To: spetznaz

here = hear.

12 posted on 06/16/2004 7:10:01 PM PDT by spetznaz (Nuclear missiles: The ultimate Phallic symbol.)
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To: vannrox; Fred Nerks

Thanks for the very good post; links.

13 posted on 06/16/2004 7:11:11 PM PDT by PGalt
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To: spetznaz

We need exterminators. That's what you do with cockroaches, isn't it? You don't negotiate with rats.

14 posted on 06/16/2004 7:12:37 PM PDT by ODC-GIRL (President Reagan: A life well lived, he will be missed.)
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To: vannrox


15 posted on 06/16/2004 7:14:18 PM PDT by rudypoot (Rat line = Routes that foreign fighters use to enter Iraq.)
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To: vannrox

Excellent read. Jimmie Carter is an anti-American POS!

16 posted on 06/16/2004 7:14:48 PM PDT by blam
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To: vannrox
Very interesting indeed, but I am not sure about this:

"It is this Wahhabi version of Islam which has infected the religion itself, now finding adherents in almost all branches and sects, especially the Shiites. "

While the Khomeini Shi'ites are, from my perspective, not to far removed from the Wahhabis, they are still pretty actively killing each other.
17 posted on 06/16/2004 7:17:59 PM PDT by dinasour
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To: vannrox

good read, but trouble with the " marks?

18 posted on 06/16/2004 7:18:29 PM PDT by bitt
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To: vannrox; Cindy; nw_arizona_granny


19 posted on 06/16/2004 7:33:15 PM PDT by Calpernia (When you bite the hand that feeds you, you eventually run out of food.)
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To: vannrox; LiteKeeper


20 posted on 06/16/2004 7:34:02 PM PDT by Calpernia (When you bite the hand that feeds you, you eventually run out of food.)
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To: vannrox
Very appropriate post....
Thanks vann
21 posted on 06/16/2004 7:34:34 PM PDT by Wings-n-Wind (The answers are out there; Wisdom is gained by asking the right questions)
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To: spetznaz

I agree with all the way. We are delaing with an ideology -according to mohammad - that islam has the blessing of allah to rule the world. The 'prophet' was a warlord, who, in his youth suffered from seizures which are now understood to have been caused by epilepsy. He heard voices - he had numerous schizoid episodes. Arabic sources show he was considered to be 'mad' by some of his own followers.
The words in the koran were 'revealed' to the 'prophet' through an intermediary, whom he claimed was the archangel Gabriel. mohammad is recorded in the the biography by Edward Sell, (again, from arabic sources quoted in the text) as having considered suicide a number of times because the 'voices' disturbed him.

Muslims are told that mohammad's actions (muder and rape) were the actions of a 'sinless and divine being' - in other words, he could do no wrong.

No one can 'negotiate' with such a cultist belief system. Its adherants are brainwashed from birth. The first thing a child hears when it is born, is a verse from the koran whispered in its ear...islam rules every aspect of a mulsim's life. How to wash, how to eat. There is no way we can have even a conversation with an adherant to this cult; islam tells them we are unclean. They should not even brush up against us in the street.
We are less than pigs, monkeys and dogs. Not human. How long would a debriefing take? How many generations?
Expose mohammad. Kill the 'prophet' and kill islam. What other way is there? Please, someone out there, (are you listening Mel?) Make that movie...
Meanwhile, read the biography. Click on Fred Nerks. It's Free!

22 posted on 06/16/2004 7:36:07 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (Understanding Evil: Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD free pdf. Click Fred Nerks.)
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To: Fred Nerks

apologies to myself and readers for spelling a bit carried away there...

23 posted on 06/16/2004 7:38:55 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (Understanding Evil: Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD free pdf. Click Fred Nerks.)
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Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

To: vannrox

Extremely cogent. But depressing, because few of the suggestions (imperatives?)are being, or will be, followed for the reasons delineated in the essay. At least not until a hit on the homeland that will dwarf 9/11.

25 posted on 06/16/2004 7:55:36 PM PDT by luvbach1 (Reagan won the cold war. Of course the left isn't impressed since they rooted for the other side.)
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To: vannrox
Hear hear!

I say we cut the pretense and try a little honesty for a change. And to anyone who might take "offense" at said honesty, all I can say is, "The truth hurts, doesn't it?"

26 posted on 06/16/2004 7:55:52 PM PDT by FierceDraka ("Party Before Country" - The New Motto of the Democratic Party)
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To: vannrox
I took three assertions from this article, all of which I agree with:

1. We are in an existential fight for survival of our republican democracy and a defeat of Bush in November will make it dramatically more difficult to prevail because of the domino effect of falling secular regimes (read Egypt) and oil regimes (read Arabia).

2. Bush has been so damaged by the left that he no longer has credibility to intimidate bad guys like Syria and Iran.

3. The persistence in trying to establish a democracy in Iraq is misbegotten and should have been abandoned in favor of a real politik which contemplated a series of deals with the tribes.
27 posted on 06/16/2004 8:55:34 PM PDT by nathanbedford
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To: vannrox

Yes,it is and I bookmarked it too.

28 posted on 06/16/2004 8:57:31 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: BartMan1; Nailbiter

.. ping ...

29 posted on 06/16/2004 9:27:27 PM PDT by IncPen (Proud member of the Half Vast Right Wing Conspiracy)
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To: vannrox

Except for all the numbers and other trash that clutter the copy. How does that stuff get in there?

30 posted on 06/16/2004 9:33:42 PM PDT by Paulus Invictus
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To: vannrox
Go here for another great read.
31 posted on 06/16/2004 9:38:39 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Sin Pátria, pero sin amo.)
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To: vannrox

I read on a wacked out web conspiracy site that when the word "calphate" begins to be used in the common press, then we know the next phase of the war has begun.... wacky- but who know; Saladin was a Kurd... what does that have to do with prophecy?? Well the Kurds are our buddies- so are the Turks....

32 posted on 06/16/2004 9:43:17 PM PDT by Porterville (oOOOo USA against the World in this summer Olympics oOOOo)
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To: vannrox; All
Clash of Civilizatio:
To find all articles tagged or indexed using Clash of Civilizatio, click below:
  click here >>> Clash of Civilizatio <<< click here  
(To view all FR Bump Lists, click here)

33 posted on 06/17/2004 1:23:01 AM PDT by backhoe (-30-)
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To: vannrox

Why don't you take a minute and edit your article so that it is readable?

34 posted on 06/17/2004 1:38:38 AM PDT by Beckwith (Did Kerry commit murder in Viet Nam?)
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To: Captiva
I could not find enough info via google on the author's bio.


35 posted on 06/17/2004 2:04:35 AM PDT by meadsjn
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To: Captiva

I was ready to post his Bio, but saw message #35 below, which has a link to it.

36 posted on 06/17/2004 4:05:19 AM PDT by wingman1 (University of Vietnam '70)
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To: wingman1


37 posted on 06/17/2004 4:06:46 AM PDT by dennisw ("Allah FUBAR!")
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To: vannrox
This war is what the Jihadists themselves are calling the &#8220; WTF?
38 posted on 06/17/2004 4:36:30 AM PDT by Rudder
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To: wingman1; meadsjn

I was looking for something beyond autobiographical.

39 posted on 06/17/2004 4:46:59 AM PDT by Captiva (DVC)
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To: Fred Nerks

Its adherants are brainwashed from birth.

You are exactly right. I know people who had Muslim roommates in college back in the 1970s and that is what they said of them... They are brainwashed from birth. They don't make any sense when you try to talk to them. And they weren't even "radicals" just regular Muslims.

40 posted on 06/17/2004 5:43:02 AM PDT by buffyt (Clingon is a MALIGNANT NARCISSISTIC personality disODER.)
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To: Fred Nerks

bump fer later

41 posted on 06/17/2004 5:57:36 AM PDT by Dr.Deth
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To: Rudder

c'mon, figure it out... adapt or die... quotes and apostrophe sometimes create digital noise...


42 posted on 06/17/2004 6:49:46 AM PDT by teeman8r
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To: spetznaz

Well said, and that idiot on O'Reilly was just that. . .an idiot.

43 posted on 06/17/2004 2:05:15 PM PDT by Gunrunner2
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To: spetznaz


Good post in #11

44 posted on 06/17/2004 2:20:10 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (I want to die in my sleep like Gramps -- not yelling and screaming like those in his car)
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To: freedumb2003


45 posted on 06/17/2004 2:24:00 PM PDT by Publius6961 (I don't do diplomacy either.)
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To: Fred Nerks
Thank you Fred Nerks for those links and I did download them. I haven't had time to read them yet. But in a book I bought (Islam for Beginners) it mentions that before the Mahdi comes there is a passage in some Islamic holy text that says that muslims will be swayed into following 30 or so evil clerics. Perhaps muslims can be persuaded that that time is now and the ones they are following are evil.

I've been reading a translation of the Koran (which seems more like the diary of a petulant pre-teen- "waahh, never be friends with Christians or Jews, wahh they've been mean to me") It's amazing anyone thinks that was God speaking through an angel.

46 posted on 06/17/2004 2:38:19 PM PDT by techcor
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To: vannrox

Corrections to “The Clash Of Civilizations And The Great Caliphate”

There are numerous errors here that misinform the reader. The most glaring is associating Wahabbism with Shi'ism. Wahabbis believe theirs is the only true way of Islam, and they are a Sunni sect. They see Shi'ism, like that of Iran, as anathema and actually WORSE than Christianity because the Shiites call themselves Muslims, and are, therefore, the close enemy. In Pakistan, for example, there are many underreported attacks on Shiites by Sunni Muslims (and some counterattacks) for this very reason, and a great fear for Iraq is a civil war between the Sunni and Shi'a, stoked by Abu Musab Zarqawi (of beheadings infamy) and other Sunni (Wahabbi) terrorists (here is a link to the text of a letter from Zarqawi to Osama bin Laden regarding starting a civil war with the Iraqi Shi’a: ).

Other problems:
- Venezuela, while having a government not too friendly with the US and having the largest oil reserves in our hemisphere, is not worthy of an "axis of evil" tag since it does not support terrorism in any sense of the term
- Iraq is much more than a footnote in this struggle - it is a rallying point for the Jihadis
- 15 of 19 9/11 hijackers were Saudi, not 18
- While a case can be made for Islamic revivalism starting with the 1979 revolution in Iran, there are few direct ties or "grand strategy" connections between the Shi'a revolution there and the Wahabbi terrorists of Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda was created through the waging of the Jihad against the Soviets in Afghanistan, which also helped create the Taliban. The Taliban were ardently opposed by the Iranian government, who supported the Shi'a minority of the Northern Alliance (who we supported to defeat the Taliban in Operation Enduring Freedom).
- The list of countries whose leaders would be replaced in this "Third Jihad" is redundant (Indonesia twice) but also very incomplete. There are 22 Arab League nations ( ), and 57 countries in the Organization of Islamic Conference ( .
- Al Qaeda (AQ) not only called for the overthrow of Musharraf of Pakistan, they tried to assasinate him twice in December 2003! Also, Islamists have a political coalition in Pakistan called the MMA, but polls show the majority of Pakistanis support Musharraf.
- Jihadis have never declared an intent to nuke Israel - that territory they consider Palestine, and they want to keep it inhabitable once the eject the Israelis. Still bad intent, but not as he says. They DO, however, want to nuke the US, and have fatwas (religious edicts) to back them up ( )
- Islamists despise the UN, seeing it as a tool of the West.
- What we know now about cooperation between Saddam and AQ is very slim, and they did not have active cooperation ongoing, although they had met through the 1990s (see conclusions of the 9/11 commission). Saddam did support Palestinian suicide bombers, even paying their families $25K for attacks. Saddam HATES Kuwaitis and would never support terrorism from them (unless against the Kuwaiti government). Also, Saddam was an ardent secularist (who hid behind Islam when convenient) and was very wary of Islamists BECAUSE of their assassinations of Nasser and Sadat and attempts on other leaders.
- Leaders of Arab countries such as Egypt and Saudi Arabia are certainly targets of Islamists – and people have been predicting their downfall for years. Mubarak is cynically passing power to his son, and the Saudis are somewhat effectively pursuing AQ in their own country while protecting the status of the ruling family. Indonesia, which has the largest Muslim population in the world (208M by CIA Factbook estimates), recently elected a former general in peaceful elections, and he is an avowed secularist. In Malaysian elections in June, 2004, Islamist parties lost all the ground they had gained in the last decade and are now a minimal voice in that government. While AQ and Islamists (differentiated from Muslims – they are more radical) want to start a Clash of Civilizations, they have thus far failed to spark a worldwide jihad. That is not to say there is not a great terrorist threat from these groups.
- The most recent CIA Factbook estimate on Muslim population in France is 5-10%, so 20% is a vast overstatement. However, Islamic politics is becoming a factor throughout all of Europe. We receive and should expect a lot of cooperation from the Europeans on Islamist terror, especially after the Madrid bombings, cells being discovered in Germany, France, UK, Belgium, Spain, Italy and elsewhere. They are acutely aware of this problem, more so than Americans due to a history of coping with extremists throughout Europe – the IRA, the Red Brigades, the ETA, the Baader-Meinhoff gang, etc..
- Libya was not part of the axis of evil - in fact, they have renounced terrorism, openly given up their WMD programs (which led to a flood of intelligence information about other proliferation attempts regarding Pakistan, Iran, North Korea and others) and we have lifted sanctions on Libya (or we are about to). Not that I think they're all that trustworthy, but this has all happened in the last year.
- Although not as pessimistic or dire as Mr. Abraham, I do also believe that we are in for the fight of my generation, and possibly the one after. We do need to recognize and understand the adversary, but through using correct and useful assumptions and facts.

47 posted on 10/23/2004 5:59:19 PM PDT by gdrowe
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