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New Waziristan Offensive Starts
BBC News ^ | June 17,2004

Posted on 06/17/2004 5:51:13 PM PDT by nuconvert

New Waziristan Offensive Starts

Pakistani security forces backed by helicopter gun ships have launched a fresh offensive in the South Waziristan region, officials say. Military and transport helicopters are reported to be accompanied by jet fighters west of the town of Wana.

Witnesses say that they heard the helicopters fire rockets at suspected militant hideouts.

An earlier offensive ended on Sunday after attacks using artillery, helicopter gun ships and jet fighters.

Since Sunday there have been at least two incidents of fighting - in one dozens of militants attacked a border security post.

The army has been trying to persuade rebellious sub-tribes protecting several hundred suspected foreign militants to hand them over for registration, so far unsuccessfully.

Instead, the tribesmen have been digging in, staging lightning strikes against the military.

They accuse the security forces of fighting against them on behalf of the Americans who are continuing to mount anti-Taleban operations across the rugged border in Afghanistan.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.bbc.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: afghanistan; alqaeda; oef; pakistan; southasia; wana; waziristan

1 posted on 06/17/2004 5:51:15 PM PDT by nuconvert
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To: AdmSmith; Valin; Boot Hill; Dog

Pong


2 posted on 06/17/2004 5:52:31 PM PDT by nuconvert ("America will never be intimidated by thugs and assassins." ( Azadi baraye Iran)
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To: nuconvert

So sad. The hopes of our nation to bring a mass murderer to justice are pinned on an incompitent and military and some tribal troglodytes who's allegiances are entirely dubious.


3 posted on 06/17/2004 6:06:53 PM PDT by rageaholic
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To: nuconvert

Angor Adda is about 2 km SE of Shkin, Afghanistan. By the time the Pak army subdues this last outpost, they will have encircled the entire Shawal Mountain Range, from the Sangarai border town west of Miram Shah, to Miram Shah, south through the Shakai Valley to Tiarza and west through Wana to Angor Adda.

The fourth side of the rectangle is covered by the Coalition forces on the Afghan side of the border.

Things don't look so good for the bad guys.

Hi-res, 3D satellite maps of the region at:

http://host1.in-motion.net/~jefft/tech/Mapping/afghanistan/index.html


4 posted on 06/17/2004 6:08:25 PM PDT by jeffers
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To: jeffers

All this activity over there... Maybe Musharraf realized what Kerry would mean to him...


5 posted on 06/17/2004 6:12:27 PM PDT by max_rpf
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To: jeffers

Wow! 3-D. Kewl !


6 posted on 06/17/2004 6:13:26 PM PDT by nuconvert ("America will never be intimidated by thugs and assassins." ( Azadi baraye Iran)
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To: max_rpf

Kerry's pacifism and deceit scares me too.

I think Musharraf decided to put an end to the party in the border regions after the second assassination attempt.

Two things slowed him down.

One, the bad guys, the Chechens especially, fight pretty good and chewed up the Pak forces pretty good back in March.

Two, the Islamist's political forces put a lot of pressure on Musharraf over that offensive as well. The threat to place Karachi under martial law if there's any more significant terrorist attacks isn't idle chatter, and if that happens, civil war may not be far behind.

Notice that this time, Musharraf has his ducks all lined up. He just signed a record budget, with something like 30% extra funding for domestic infrastructure, he has allowed the tribal jirgas and the political efforts every chance to bring in the militants, much more chance than they deserved, and the talks with India over kashmir and nuclear detente are going very smoothly.

I don't want to comment on possible future operations, but I will say that the anvil best stand ready.


7 posted on 06/17/2004 6:22:20 PM PDT by jeffers
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To: jeffers
By the time the Pak army subdues this last outpost, they will have encircled the entire Shawal Mountain Range...Things don't look so good for the bad guys.

Yeah just remember who we're dealing with... The last time the Paki army confronted a terrorist stronghold it ended in their withdrawl. Saudis can't even encircle a city block, they let terrorists run away. I'm not going to put any hope on either of these so called Allies.

You want a job well done, gotta do it yourself...

8 posted on 06/17/2004 6:23:28 PM PDT by rageaholic
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To: jeffers
Hi-res, 3D satellite maps of the region at:

It looks like a 3D rendering. Not a 3D glasses-viewble stereo pair.

Good maps anyway. Thanks!

9 posted on 06/17/2004 6:24:53 PM PDT by FreeReign
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To: rageaholic
So sad. The hopes of our nation to bring a mass murderer to justice are pinned on an incompitent and military and some tribal troglodytes who's allegiances are entirely dubious.

Don't be such a drama queen. It's worth a shot using other peoples troops.

I do hope that when we do get OBL, that we don't bring him back to Afghanistan for a trial similar to Saddam in Iraq.

We're the ones who need to give him what he deserves.

10 posted on 06/17/2004 6:29:23 PM PDT by FreeReign
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To: rageaholic

"The last time the Paki army confronted a terrorist stronghold it ended in their withdrawl."

That's not true. The last offensive was at Sangarai and Nawe Kot on 6/16. The Paks took both villages. Prior to that the last offensive was on and before 6/14, primarily against the Shakai valley, Tiarza, and Inzar Narai, and the Pak army took all of those too.

The battle I think you refer to was during the week prior to 3/30 and involved the Shin Warsak and Kaloosha villages 15 km west of Wana.

Yes, there was some give and take over those areas, but if you'll notice, those areas are well to the rear of the current advances, and there aren't any flanking militants to worry about either.

I think, (personal opinion here), that some of the "withdrawal" we read about in the press was to take the political heat off of Musharraf, some was real, to allow the tribes to take their shot, and some was media ignorance, possibly aided by deliberate misdirection on the military's part.

In any event, "withdrawal" or not, the good guys hold those towns now, and many more besides.


11 posted on 06/17/2004 6:33:20 PM PDT by jeffers
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To: FreeReign
I do hope that when we do get OBL, that we don't bring him back to Afghanistan for a trial similar to Saddam in Iraq.

I suspect the Iraqis will execute Saddam -- both because he deserves it, and (more importantly) to show the Iraqis who's boss. They'll kill him for the same reason the Romanians killed Ceaucescu back in '89: to make sure that a "return Saddam to power" party will have nothing to work with.

12 posted on 06/17/2004 6:35:32 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: r9etb
I do hope that when we do get OBL, that we don't bring him back to Afghanistan for a trial similar to Saddam in Iraq.

I suspect the Iraqis will execute Saddam -- both because he deserves it, and (more importantly) to show the Iraqis who's boss. They'll kill him for the same reason the Romanians killed Ceaucescu back in '89: to make sure that a "return Saddam to power" party will have nothing to work with.

Yes, most likely Saddam will be executed by his own countrymen. I agree with that.

13 posted on 06/17/2004 6:40:44 PM PDT by FreeReign
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To: FreeReign

" It looks like a 3D rendering. Not a 3D glasses-viewble stereo pair."

C'mere.

Lemme smack you.





Actually you are right and I was wrong. They were zoomable, spinable, pannable, and tiltable 3D models, but in that format they run about 12 megabytes, and very few have the GIS software necessary to view them that way.

Now they are JPEG compressions of TIFF two dimensional renderings.

If you want a different view and tell me what you'd like to see, I'll put it up. I have views of most of them from the 4 cardinal points of the compass, sans road and village overlays, anything else will take a day or two to generate.


14 posted on 06/17/2004 6:41:36 PM PDT by jeffers
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To: jeffers

I want the view that has the small cave by the side of the road with a big tall goofy guy standing there, wearing a Timex, and the American he happens to be talking to is...John Kerry! Zoom and print!!! Then, drop the mutha OABs.


15 posted on 06/17/2004 7:08:03 PM PDT by bitt
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To: nuconvert

Thanks for the map. I had no idea that Waziristan existed, let alone where.

I think I'll forget it now that I know.


16 posted on 06/17/2004 7:10:22 PM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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To: nuconvert

Here's some more maps and background info courtesy of Boot Hill -

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1102298/posts


17 posted on 06/17/2004 7:20:54 PM PDT by nuconvert ("America will never be intimidated by thugs and assassins." ( Azadi baraye Iran)
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To: jeffers; Boot Hill

Boot Hill will be envious of your maps


18 posted on 06/17/2004 7:22:20 PM PDT by nuconvert ("America will never be intimidated by thugs and assassins." ( Azadi baraye Iran)
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To: nuconvert
(From a sister thread about the same battle as reported here.)

“Dozens of transport and gunship helicopters headed toward the mountains near Angor Adda, 60 km (38 miles) west of South Waziristan's main town of Wana...”

“Pakistan's military ended a five-day crackdown on militants on Sunday in the Shakai area, 17 km (11 miles) west of Wana...”

IF WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE WANA CAMPAIGN IS ABOUT...
You can't understand what this battle is about, until you understand the tactics that are dictated by the rugged terrain and that requires a short tour of the battle area. Get your helmet, vest and sidearm and let's roll.

First off, ignore the mileage and directions quoted from the above article. Those city slicker reporters couldn't find their own butt with both hands.

The place name "Shakai", from the thread article is the small village of Shakki Khassadar Post (meaning Shakki Police Post, or simply Shakki, for short). It is located 18 km (11 mi) NNE, 026º from Wana, the principal town of the South Waziristan Tribal Agency. Shakki is not shown on any map because of its small size, but the location can be identified on the maps below.

The first map below shows Wana approximately in the center. Shakki is located along the road leaving Wana to the NNE, just before the first crook to the right in that road. Notice north-west of that point, the arc of mountains surrounding that area.


Wana can be found on the next map below approximately in the center (very small print). Shakki is located at the intersection of the two roads about 18 km NNE of Wana (see scale at the bottom of the map) and just below the town of Chalweshti. Notice the road leaving that intersection to the north-west, and how that road follows a river into the mountains seen in the first map. That is what is being referred to as "Shakki Valley".


SITREP:
On the map above, locate the tiny village of Shkin, on the Afghani border, due west of Shakki and 37 km (23 mi) NW (311º) from Wana. Just a mile or two East of that, over the border into Pakistan, (but not shown on the map) is the small sister village of Angor Adda (Angorada). Shkin has been a very hot LZ ever since 2001, with a strong U.S. presence. The reason Shkin is such a hot LZ is that the road from Shkin to Shakki (via Angorada and the Shakki Valley) is a major terrorist infiltration/exfiltration route. The Shakki valley would make an deal spot for the terrorists to control that route and to ambush and trap any Paki troops foolish enough to venture into it. Moreover, since Shakki is along the major north-south road route traversing South Waziristan, whoever controls Shakki, can effectively control the entire tribal area.

The way you capture such a dangerous road is simply: Start from both ends! The Pakis started working their way up the road from Shakki, into the "valley of death", a couple of weeks back, while other Paki troops began from the Angorada end, as reported in this story.

This battle appears to indicate a change in strategy for the Pakis, who have previously been placing the burden on the local tribes to clean up their own backyard (South waziristan). Now the Pakis appear to be saying to hell with tribal cooperation, we'll just plug off the infiltration routes to the border, QED.

The next map below gives a better topographic view of the terrain around Wana, Shakki and Shkin. Notice the Shakki Valley to the West of the intersection where Shakki is located. Although the road to Shkin is not shown, it should be clear from the terrain, just where it is and just why that road has "ambush" written all over it. Also notice an alternative route from Shkin to Wana, not shown on any of the above maps. This is another terrorist infiltration route that will be cut off by blockading the choke point at Angorada/Shkin.


The last map below is simply to orient you to where Shakki, Wana and South Waziristan fit into the bigger picture. Locate Zhob on the western border with Afghanistan. Now locate Zhob in the bottom-center of the first map on this post.


OK, take a break. Smoke 'em if you got 'em.

--Boot Hill

19 posted on 06/17/2004 7:25:31 PM PDT by Boot Hill (Candy-gram for Osama bin Mongo, candy-gram for Osama bin Mongo!)
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To: nuconvert; jeffers
“Boot Hill will be envious of your maps.”

Well I'll be darned, I stumbled on to jeffers website just this past week, while nosing around for anything new in the way of online maps! And now I come to this thread and find jeffers has become one of us!

Glad to have you around jeffers. I always look forward to learning new tricks, and I suspect you might have a few.

--Boot Hill

20 posted on 06/17/2004 7:33:45 PM PDT by Boot Hill (Candy-gram for Osama bin Mongo, candy-gram for Osama bin Mongo!)
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To: Boot Hill

Do you have coordinates for Angor Adda?

No joy on my end, and had to eyeball 2km from FB...Shkin, based on the reports from 10/2003 to get it placed.

To save you some time, I've tried "Angur Adha", "Angoor Adda", "Angur Adda" and several other similar variants at:

http://www.traveljournals.net/explore/pakistan/locations/t/index/3.html

and

http://www.islamicfinder.org/cityPrayer.php?country=pakistan

with no luck.

If no coordinates, do you know if it is due east of Shkin on that same road, SE of Shkin on the track over the 10,700' feature, or SSE on the valley road that runs NS and intersects the road through Shkin just east of the border?

Thanks.


21 posted on 06/17/2004 7:41:32 PM PDT by jeffers
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To: jeffers
Actually you are right and I was wrong. They were zoomable, spinable, pannable, and tiltable 3D models, but in that format they run about 12 megabytes, and very few have the GIS software necessary to view them that way. Now they are JPEG compressions of TIFF two dimensional renderings. If you want a different view and tell me what you'd like to see, I'll put it up. I have views of most of them from the 4 cardinal points of the compass, sans road and village overlays, anything else will take a day or two to generate.

Speaking of GIS s/w, if you have any that generates DTED from DPPDB stereo pairs, let me know. The three today I looked at worked for their own test data, but not for real DPPDB.

Your post #11, I see you've been paying attention like few have.

22 posted on 06/17/2004 7:46:58 PM PDT by FreeReign
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To: jeffers
LOL, there are more ways to spell Angorada than you can shake a stick at. All of these will produce Google hits for that village.

NAME---------------HITS
angorada ----- 18
angoorada ---- 8
angoradda ---- 3
angooradda --- 8
angor ada ---- 2
angoor ada --- 134
angor adda --- 161
angoor adda -- 432
angurada ----- 8
angur adda --- 3
angur ada ---- 14
angore adda -- 111

Possibly even worse, none of those names can be found on the GEO Names data base!

BUT, I was finally able to pin it down...

Geonames Search Results For:
MBR: 32°26'N, 69°11'E by 32°36'N, 69°21'E (+/- 5'or 9 km from Shkin)


NAME REGION DESIG. LATITUDE LONGITUDE AREA UTM JOG NO. UFI UNI PPL CLASS MOD. DATE

Unverified De Angur Kot Zyåbu

(4) PPL 32° 33' 56" N 069° 18' 42" E AF29 WB20 NI42-15 6207203 6224139 2002-08-20
Variant ƒe Angør Kðt Zyåbu (UNI= 6224138)


Native Shkin

(4) PPL 32° 31' 11" N 069° 16' 14" E AF29 WA29 NI42-15 -3392575 -4826240 2002-09-26
Variant Skin (UNI= -4827278)
Variant Shakin (UNI= -4825236)
Variant Shåken (UNI= -4825183)


That places Angorada 6.4km (3.0 mi) NE (037º) from Shkin.

Simple as pie, LOL!!!

--Boot Hill

23 posted on 06/17/2004 8:10:48 PM PDT by Boot Hill (Candy-gram for Osama bin Mongo, candy-gram for Osama bin Mongo!)
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To: Boot Hill
Great maps - just excellent -

I really have to believe we are closing in on "somebody" - be it Zawahiri, Omar or UBL -

Side question - I have looking and I haven't found any audio links to Al Zawahiri since the first show of force by Pakistan back at the end of March - Also, at that time, Ret. Gen. Hunt (from Fox News) was reporting that SEALs killed Al Zawahiri during that operation (on the Pak side of the border) - However, nothing ever came of this info -

Just curious, has Zawahiri put out an audio since late March 2004??

24 posted on 06/17/2004 8:11:33 PM PDT by POA2
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To: nuconvert

25 posted on 06/17/2004 8:20:24 PM PDT by CurlyBill (Ronald Reagan is the modern day Father of our Country!)
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To: FreeReign

Have you tried here:

N38.7310 W104.8475

Knock hard, they may not hear you at first if the doors are closed.

You may have difficulty finding that in the public domain, and may have to code it yourself. It's going to take some processing horsepower too, though I suspect you already know that.

A general overview of the file structure and at least part of the algorithm to ingest the pairs is here:

http://www.ai.sri.com/~apgd/reports/monthly-08-98.text

You're also going to have to convert from WGS-84 in order to export to DTED, but that will probably be the least of your worries.

Sooooo, where can one find this type of data online?

;-)


26 posted on 06/17/2004 8:21:36 PM PDT by jeffers
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To: POA2
“Great maps - just excellent”

Thanks a bunch for that.

“...has Zawahiri put out an audio since late March 2004”

Great question. I'm not aware of any recent Zawahiri audio and that is plenty curious. Remember today's news that we never disclosed (for security reasons) last winter's capture of a high-level terrorist in Iraq? Hmmm...

--Boot Hill

27 posted on 06/17/2004 8:32:27 PM PDT by Boot Hill (Candy-gram for Osama bin Mongo, candy-gram for Osama bin Mongo!)
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To: Boot Hill

Thanks, Boot Hill, for the welcome and for the data. Interesting you found my site looking for maps, because that's how I found this place. Looks like a good place for a guy like me to hang out. Not many people are paying any attention at all to this offensive, and even fewer still are looking at the terrain and thinking for themselves.

I'd enjoy discussing possibilities in greater detail, but it doesn't seem like such a good idea in such a public place.

:-)

Simple as pie, my foot.

I can tell roughly how many searches you had to run to find that and I know how long each one takes. LOL, that's why I usually try the Islami-finder first and GEOnames only in dire emergencies.

Thanks again for the effort, I would have never found that....variant...on what they've been writing in the news.


28 posted on 06/17/2004 9:04:28 PM PDT by jeffers
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To: jeffers

Why it almost looks like someone has a plan!


29 posted on 06/17/2004 9:31:05 PM PDT by Valin (This was only a test; if this had been a real emergency, you'd be dead.)
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To: jeffers
“Interesting you found my site looking for maps, because that's how I found this place.”

Life on the internet can get real strange at times!

“...even fewer still are looking at the terrain and thinking for themselves.”

Like they say, you can't tell the players without a program. And in this case, the players are the mountains, the passes, the valleys, the towns and the borders. And the program is the maps. Without the maps, you're just guessing about what's really going on and, more importantly, why.

“I'd enjoy discussing possibilities in greater detail, but it doesn't seem like such a good idea in such a public place.”

There's very little we can discuss here that the bad guys don't already know because they're hip-deep in it. But some thoughtful opsec and a little discretion, never hurt anyone. Plus, here on FR you can avail yourself of private FReepmail to keep selected parties up to date with up coming events that you feel should be treated more discretely.

“Simple as pie, my foot. I can tell roughly how many searches you had to run to find that and I know how long each one takes.”

You got that right! I did that search back in March and if memory serves, it took about four hours to glean what I could from Google and then do a narrow, focused search of the GEONames data base. One good thing about the speed of that data base, is that I can generally tell when a major U.S. operation is under way, because it takes extra long to post the results to me.

“I usually try the Islami-finder first and GEOnames only in dire emergencies.”

Islami-finder is built from a much narrower (populated place) data base than GEONames. Even worse, they don't include variant names nor do they include the names of mountains, hills, valleys, springs, etc., etc. And geographic features comprise a lot of the features that we find ourselves tracking down.

For example, take that volatile collection of little villages, a dozen or so miles SW of Wana. You've already mentioned one of them, Kaloosha. Often cited in that collection of villages, is Azam Warzak. The problem is, Azam Warzak (native: Azamiwarsakai) is not a village it is a set of hills and the nearby villages are so small that they are commonly referred to by the name of the nearby hills, Azam Warzak.

BTW, I occasionally use another website, similar to Islami-find. I'll see if I can dig up the URL tonight and post it to you so you can compare the two and see if one is more worthwhile than the other.

Enjoyed the exchange.

--Boot Hill

30 posted on 06/17/2004 11:03:32 PM PDT by Boot Hill (Candy-gram for Osama bin Mongo, candy-gram for Osama bin Mongo!)
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To: Boot Hill

Valin, I have oplans, fragplans, SIOPs, even floorplans. Thing is, Mushie won't take my calls, not sure why.

Boot Hill, I found out about Azam Warsak the hard way. Several days worth. At some point, I even found some coordinates...N32.0931 W69.4139...but IIRC there was a question mark attached to them so take them with a grain of salt. Not sure, that was about 857362543548392745 little villages ago.

I have a theory. I don't speak Pashto, but I'm guessing that every mud hut is actually a village, since more than one person probably lives there. The "village" names are related to the tribe and family names, so you have "Uncle Fred's town", "Uncle Fred's brother's town", and then you have "Uncle Fred's other brother's town" except the folks on that side of the clan switch the last two names around because obviously they are closer to this brother by blood and marriage so the first brother is the other brother to them. Of course, when somebody dies....or moves....or visits relatives...

Anyway, the contact seems to have moved slightly to Baghar, a different town near Angor Adda, or perhaps one of the miscreants died, or moved, or...anyway, it was still going on as of sundown, Lima. Sixteen rotary wing assets pounding away, possible CAS, reports of heavy casualties amongst the bad guys but no solid confirmation on that yet.

Things are heating up elsewhere too. Seems some PPP type in Karachi walked into a bullet, and his comrades walked out of the NA to plan massive protests. Could be SOP, could be significant, maybe after the mud at Baghar is returned to the horizontal state, I wouldn't complain if they took time to consolidate a bit. It's not like anyone has anywhere else to go.


31 posted on 06/18/2004 1:26:08 AM PDT by jeffers
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To: jeffers

Oh yeah, almost forgot to check Dawn's "breaking news". Sultan named one of the dead miscreants.

Some guy named Nek Mohammad.

http://www.dawn.com/2004/06/18/welcome.htm

(Herat changed hands again too.)


32 posted on 06/18/2004 1:34:22 AM PDT by jeffers
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To: POA2
- I have looking and I haven't found any audio links to Al Zawahiri since the first show of force by Pakistan back at the end of March

Last week during the Reagan funeral someone reported that al-Zawahiri released a tape.....but with the hub-bub with Reagen it went right over media's head. But the CIA reviewed the tape and COULD NOT CONFIRM IT WAS HIM SPEAKING.

33 posted on 06/18/2004 2:35:13 AM PDT by Dog (In Memory of Pat Tillman ---- ---- ---- American Hero.)
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To: jeffers
“I even found some coordinates...N32.0931 W69.4139...but IIRC there was a question mark attached to them...”

That's the coordinates I found, too (as long as you change that west longitude to east). I believe the question mark you mention is a reference to an unverified place name, rather than unverified coordinates. Azam Warsak is really that obscure.

“Sixteen rotary wing assets pounding away, possible CAS...”

Since there are no reporters in the Shkin/Angorada area to call Mushi a liar, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Paki's are not availing themselves of some U.S. assets, like Spectre from across the border at our base in Shkin. It wouldn't be the first time...

“Sultan named one of the dead miscreants. Some guy named Nek Mohammad.”

The CNN version of the story is posted to FR over here...

Missile kills Pakistan tribal head

Got to get some shut-eye, see you tomorrow.

Boot Hill

34 posted on 06/18/2004 2:59:15 AM PDT by Boot Hill (Candy-gram for Osama bin Mongo, candy-gram for Osama bin Mongo!)
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To: Valin

LoL.
Like your new tagline


35 posted on 06/18/2004 5:16:32 AM PDT by nuconvert ("America will never be intimidated by thugs and assassins." ( Azadi baraye Iran)
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To: Dog

Yes, I remember that. Hasn't been any follow-up, so who knows....?


36 posted on 06/18/2004 5:18:59 AM PDT by nuconvert ("America will never be intimidated by thugs and assassins." ( Azadi baraye Iran)
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To: CurlyBill

Good idea. Where do we drop it?


37 posted on 06/18/2004 7:17:04 AM PDT by Valin (This was only a test; if this had been a real emergency, you'd be dead.)
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To: CurlyBill

A green MOAB??

What happen to the Orange?


38 posted on 06/18/2004 7:35:31 AM PDT by OXENinFLA
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To: nuconvert; AdmSmith; Valin; Boot Hill; Dog; StriperSniper; Mo1; Peach; Howlin; kimmie7; ...

I hope they catch UBL before the election!!!


Sounds like they're getting close!


39 posted on 06/18/2004 7:38:25 AM PDT by OXENinFLA
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To: OXENinFLA
A green MOAB??
What happen to the Orange?

Maybe they come in an assortment of colors, like M&Ms.

40 posted on 06/18/2004 7:50:36 AM PDT by CurlyBill (Ronald Reagan is the modern day Father of our Country!)
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To: OXENinFLA

I haven't looked lately but I'd bet a couple of bucks that some of the folks at DU believe that President Bush already does have him, and is just waiting for the right moment to spring him on the unsuspecting (dumb) voters and so insure his election.

I bet Dick Cheney has him chained up in his basement.


41 posted on 06/18/2004 8:18:55 AM PDT by Valin (This was only a test; if this had been a real emergency, you'd be dead.)
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To: OXENinFLA; nuconvert; AdmSmith; Valin; Boot Hill; Dog; StriperSniper; Mo1; Peach; Howlin; ...

latest
Wanted Tribal Leader Killed in Pakistan

Friday June 18, 2004 3:16 PM


By AHSANULLAH WAZIR

Associated Press Writer
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4218833,00.html

WANA, Pakistan (AP) - Pakistani forces killed a renegade tribal leader allied with suspected al-Qaida militants in a helicopter assault on a mud-brick fortress near the Afghan border, the army spokesman said Friday.

Nek Mohammed was tracked down by tracing an intercepted satellite phone call, a senior security official told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity. Six others were killed with Mohammed in the missile strike late Thursday.

Mohammed, a former Taliban fighter, led fierce resistance to the army's offensive to flush out foreign militants from the rugged tribal belt near the Afghan border where al-Qaida is believed to be active.

``We were tracking him down and he was killed last night by our hand,'' Maj. Gen. Shaukat Sultan told The Associated Press in Islamabad, the Pakistani capital.

The helicopter fired a missile at Mohammed's hideout near Wana, the main town in South Waziristan.

The British Broadcasting Corp. has conducted at least two phone interviews with Mohammed in the past week, though it was not clear whether either of those calls was used to track him down.

In one of the interviews, Mohammed acknowledged foreigners were living in the tribal areas, but denied that they were terrorists.

``Those foreigners who are living here are not terrorists - rather they are mujahedeen (holy warriors) who took part in the Afghan jihad,'' he said, a reference to the U.S.-backed war in the 1980s to drive the Soviet Union out of Afghanistan.

Sultan would not confirm whether Mohammed was traced through a satellite phone call.

It was not clear if the United States was involved in the effort to track Mohammed. Pakistan is thought to lack the sophisticated satellite technology necessary for such phone intercepts and acknowledges that it sometimes receives ``technical help'' from the Americans.

Mohammed's death was a major victory for the Pakistani army, which has been embarrassed by heavy losses in fighting with the militants, who are thought to enjoy protection from some tribes along the border.

The United States military, pursuing al-Qaida on the Afghan side of the border, has been pressing hard for Islamabad to step up military activity in Waziristan. The area is considered a possible hideout for al-Qaida chief Osama bin Laden, though there is no hard intelligence on his whereabouts.

``We are confident that this killing of Nek Mohammed will help the ongoing operation in South Waziristan, and counter the threat of terrorism in other parts of the country,'' Interior Minister Faisal Saleh Hayyat told lawmakers on Friday.

About 70 foreign militants have been killed in South Waziristan since June 9, when the army launched the latest offensive against them, he said, adding that the operation will continue until the last terror suspect is killed. Seventeen soldiers have also died.

Mohammed's men are responsible for several deadly ambushes against the army and led a group of heavily armed holdouts during a March standoff that left more than 120 people dead.

He later agreed to cooperate with authorities, but reneged on promises to turn over foreign fighters, prompting the latest round of hostilities.

Mohammed apparently was staying in the home of another tribal leader, Sher Zaman, when the army helicopters attacked late Thursday. Residents said two of Zaman's grown-up sons, his grandson and an associate of Mohammed also were killed.

The security official said two of those killed in the attack in the town of Pir Bagh were foreigners, but their identities were not known. They did not appear to be senior al-Qaida leaders.

Sultan said Pakistani forces were the ones who killed Mohammed. He said local reports that an unmanned U.S. aircraft may have fired the missile were ``absurd.''

Mohammed's body was taken to his village of Kaloosha, about six miles west of Wana, where thousands of people attended his funeral on Friday.

In the March assault, Pakistani troops were surprised on the first day, suffering heavy casualties and allowing hundreds of suspects to flee.

Government officials had said they believed a high-ranking al-Qaida operative - possibly bin Laden deputy Ayman al-Zawahri - was surrounded in the March attack, but no senior leaders were found. An Uzbek militant, Tahir Yuldash, reportedly was wounded in the assault, but he got away.

Pakistan, a key ally of the United States in its war on terror, has launched several operations in South Waziristan in the past year to flush out suspected al-Qaida militants. Hundreds of foreign fighters - including Arabs, Central Asians and Afghans, are still believed to be hiding there.

----

Associated Press reporter Munir Ahmad contributed to this report from Islamabad, Pakistan.

Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2004


42 posted on 06/18/2004 8:21:07 AM PDT by Valin (This was only a test; if this had been a real emergency, you'd be dead.)
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To: CurlyBill; StriperSniper; Mo1; Howlin

LOL!


Thanks for the laugh!

}:]


43 posted on 06/18/2004 8:55:10 AM PDT by OXENinFLA
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