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Canadian Gun Control Fails
TSRA ^ | 06/15/2004 | John R. Lott Jr.

Posted on 06/17/2004 7:16:26 PM PDT by Gun142

Canadian Gun Control Fails

National Post (Canada)
June 15, 2004 Tuesday National Edition

BYLINE: John R. Lott Jr. and Eli Lehrer

BODY: Gun control has not worked in Canada. Since the new gun registration program started in 1998, the U.S. homicide rate has fallen, but the Canadian rate has increased. The net cost of Canada's gun registry has surged beyond $1-billion -- more than 500 times the amount originally estimated. Despite this, the Canadian government recently admitted it could not identify a single violent crime that had been solved through registration. Public confidence in the government's ability to fight crime has also eroded, with one recent survey showing only 17% of voters support the registration program.

So, if this hasn't worked, what's the solution? The NDP, which polls indicate may hold the balance of power in Parliament after June 28, has proposed a radical solution: "going across the border to the U.S. and actively engaging in lobbying to have gun -control laws in the U.S. strengthened."

This is part of an ironic pattern: When gun control laws fail -- as they consistently do, whether in Canada, the United States or other countries -- politicians seek to pass new laws rather than eliminate the old ones. In the United States, gun -control groups now claim that the 1994 Brady Act implementing background checks and assault-weapon bans failed to reduce crime only because they didn't go far enough; and that city bans on handguns in Chicago and Washington, D.C., failed only because other jurisdictions didn't follow suit.

The same logic applies overseas: With violent crime and gun crime soaring in the United Kingdom, where handguns are already banned, the British government is banning imitation guns. And in Australia, state governments are banning ceremonial swords.

Yet, the laws in Australia, Britain and Canada were adopted under what gun control advocates would argue were ideal conditions. All three countries adopted laws that applied to the entire country. Australia and Britain are surrounded by water, and thus do not have the easy smuggling problem that Canada claims with regard to the United States. The new attempts to ban toys or cast blame on the United States, reek of desperation.

Crime did not fall in England after handguns were banned in 1997. Quite the contrary, crime rose sharply. In May, the British government reported that gun crime in England and Wales nearly doubled in the last four years. Serious violent crime rates from 1997 to 2002 averaged 29% higher than 1996; robbery was 24% higher; murders 27% higher. Before the law, armed robberies had fallen by 50% from 1993 to 1997, but as soon as handguns were banned, the armed robbery rate shot back up, almost back to their 1993 levels. The violent crime rate in England is now double that in the United States.

Australia saw its violent crime rates soar after its 1996 gun control measures banned most firearms. Violent crime rates averaged 32% higher in the six years after the law was passed than they did the year before the law went into effect. Murder and manslaughter rates remained unchanged, but armed robbery rates increased 74%, aggravated assaults by 32%. Australia's violent crime rate is also now double America's. In contrast, the United States took the opposite approach and made it easier for individuals to carry guns. Thirty-seven of the 50 states now have right-to-carry laws that let law-abiding adults carry concealed handguns once they pass a criminal background check. Violent crime in the United States has fallen much faster than in Canada, and violent crime has fallen even faster inright-to-carry states than for the nation as a whole. The states with the fastest growth in gun ownership have also experienced the biggest drops in violent crime rates.

It is understandable that Canadians are focusing on crime as the election nears. Everyone wants to take guns away from criminals. The problem is that law-abiding citizens obey the laws and criminals don't. Even in the unlikely event that a Canadian government were to convince the United States to ban guns, that would provide no more of a magic solution to Canadian crime than its own failed gun registry.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; johnlott

1 posted on 06/17/2004 7:16:26 PM PDT by Gun142
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To: *bang_list

.


2 posted on 06/17/2004 7:16:47 PM PDT by Gun142 (Kill stuff, add fire and enjoy)
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To: Gun142
TSRA bump.


3 posted on 06/17/2004 7:18:54 PM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: Gun142
"... The net cost of Canada's gun registry has surged beyond $1-billion ..."

Try $2 billion dollars down the drain...

I am salivating at the thought of Mr. Harper as New Prime Minister....
4 posted on 06/17/2004 7:19:50 PM PDT by forYourChildrenVote4Bush (No time for wobbly knees.)
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To: Gun142

bttt


5 posted on 06/17/2004 7:21:25 PM PDT by BenLurkin
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To: Gun142

So what are the murder and violent crime statistics (per capita) for Canada now? How do they compare with the US?


6 posted on 06/17/2004 7:22:58 PM PDT by megatherium
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To: Gun142

I feel badly for conservative Canadians. It must be hell to live with this utter poop.


7 posted on 06/17/2004 7:23:57 PM PDT by LibKill (Once more into the breach, dear friends!)
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To: Gun142

So let me get this straight. If the NDP wins on the 28th, they propose invading our country with the intent of directly interfering with our government and its policies?!?

We'll give you three steps to the door. After that, we get colonial on your @ss, got it, NDP?


8 posted on 06/17/2004 7:24:18 PM PDT by Freemeorkillme (Strike at the heart of the enemy! Support your conservative media now by picking up the pen!)
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To: Gun142

Exactly. Even Canadians otherwise enamored of Big Government are starting to realize wasting $1 billion on making law-abiding citizens criminals hasn't reduced real crime by one iota. What is gun registry? Its symbolism over substance. And $1 billion is a huge price to pay for the mere illusion all the guns in the country are being kept track of.


9 posted on 06/17/2004 7:25:07 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: Freemeorkillme
If the NDP wins on the 28th, they propose invading our country with the intent of directly interfering with our government and its policies?!?

I wouldn't worry about that--the best they can hope for is a coalition with the Liberals, but with the way the polls are trending, the Conservatives are probably going to have enough to beat out a Lib/NDP coalition.

10 posted on 06/17/2004 7:30:51 PM PDT by GiveEmDubya (We Need a New Reagan Revolution)
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To: Freemeorkillme

What's with this "we" crap? ;^)

I never fire warning shots.If I shoot, I intend to kill.That I have not yet shot to kill, is more a measure of my skill in avoiding lethal situations, and has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not I am listed in a registry anywhere as owning a gun.

I know of many ways to kill.I don't need a gun to do so.A gun just makes it more likely that I would survive a lethal confrontation with a criminal.

If you heard the first shot, and it's not the last thing you ever heard, a reasonable person should consider it a tracer round. ;^)



11 posted on 06/17/2004 7:46:36 PM PDT by sarasmom (Sometimes, I wish liberals had beliefs, so I could desecrate them. (spok))
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To: Gun142

Kudos to our Canadian friends!


12 posted on 06/17/2004 7:51:35 PM PDT by Ciexyz ("FR, best viewed with a budgie on hand")
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To: Gun142

Gun control fails in Canada and it's all our fault???! Why else would Parliament want to lobby for more gun control in the US? This is an outrage!


13 posted on 06/17/2004 8:14:57 PM PDT by ETERNAL WARMING (He is faithful!)
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To: Freemeorkillme

How in the world could anyone think that Canada's crime rate has anything to do with our laws...next they will say it is Bush's fault.
Tell them to look at Texas, they could give them some pointers.


14 posted on 06/17/2004 8:16:36 PM PDT by Kackikat
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To: Gun142
What disturbs me most about gun control is the totalitarian impulse that lies so close under the exterior of its adherents. A political system that claims that it cannot function unless all the world is forced to adhere to it is inherently evil - on a small scale we see this in gun control, on a large one World Socialism, or radical Islam. The excuse is always twofold - first, that the existence of an area that is not under the control of that system allows the influx of prohibited items, or ideas, to the purer homeland; and second, and far more perniciously, that such an area constitutes a place to which dissenters may escape. "No one shall differ anywhere" is not the slogan of a free man, it is the slogan of a religious fanatic and a tyrant.
15 posted on 06/17/2004 8:35:01 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: dd5339; cavtrooper21

ping


16 posted on 06/17/2004 8:46:10 PM PDT by Vic3O3 (Jeremiah 31:16-17 (KJV))
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To: Freemeorkillme
"We'll give you three steps to the door. After that, we get colonial on your @ss, got it, NDP?"

You ever hear the old saying, "Those who forget History are doomed to repeat History?" One of the reasons for that trumped up war we called the War of 1812, was that we got all full of ourselves and started eyeing Canada for it's vast realm of natural resources and wealth potential. So when we went to war with the Brits, we naturally also invaded Canada. They proceeded to kick our A$$, B-A-D.

So, like the Black Knight in "Monty Python and the Holy Grail," with both legs and both arms off; nothing but a torso on the trail, we said: "Okay we'll call it a draw!" Then we negotiated with Great Britain. The upshot was we asked the Brits: "Why did you start this stupid war?" They replied: "US? You started it, first!" And so it goes. But we learned a lesson about our northern neighbors. I trained with the Canadian army in the 1980's. Not a large military force. But they are a group of serious professionals!

I think these guys are not talking about a literal invasion, just politics as usual. The Canadians feel much the same toward their group of bottomfeeding pols as we do. Still, they have never had the benefit as we have of a Constitution that actually restrains their government from messing them over. They could correct this. In fact, they could have corrected the whole gun control mess. I fear they are already victims of a NWO mentality. So are the Aussies.

17 posted on 06/17/2004 9:33:37 PM PDT by ExSoldier (When the going gets tough, the tough go cyclic.)
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To: Gun142

Bump this so I can find it tomorrow more easily...


18 posted on 06/17/2004 9:35:23 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (For an Evil Super Genius, you aren't too bright are you?)
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To: Gun142

The question of questions is, how much more evidence do these gun-control people need, before they give up and say, "Oops, we were wrong!" ???


19 posted on 06/17/2004 9:44:25 PM PDT by Rytwyng (we're here, we're Huguenots, get used to us)
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To: ExSoldier

We have nothing to fear from Canadians. They subcontract all their defense work to the US.


20 posted on 06/17/2004 9:51:16 PM PDT by Nachoman
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To: Larry Lucido
Where can I join?

My private range is almost completed and ready to go operational...

21 posted on 06/17/2004 9:58:42 PM PDT by TXnMA (U.S. snipers: "Orkin Men" for the vermin of the earth)
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To: Nachoman
We have nothing to fear from Canadians. They subcontract all their defense work to the US.

Not quite so. IIRC, the superb fire control system for the main gun in our M1 Abrams tank is/was Canadian...

22 posted on 06/17/2004 10:03:14 PM PDT by TXnMA (U.S. snipers: "Orkin Men" for the vermin of the earth)
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To: megatherium

Adjusted for demographics?


23 posted on 06/17/2004 10:03:44 PM PDT by Old Professer (lust; pure, visceral groin-grinding, sweat-popping, heart-pounding staccato bursts of shooting stars)
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To: Billthedrill
Tolerance is not a conditioned response.

Or, as the Cryptoqoute had it:

"The object of punishment is prevention from evil; it never can be made impulsive to good." Horace Mann.

24 posted on 06/17/2004 10:07:58 PM PDT by Old Professer (lust; pure, visceral groin-grinding, sweat-popping, heart-pounding staccato bursts of shooting stars)
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To: Billthedrill

Cryptquote; I need a voiceboard.


25 posted on 06/17/2004 10:10:08 PM PDT by Old Professer (lust; pure, visceral groin-grinding, sweat-popping, heart-pounding staccato bursts of shooting stars)
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To: Billthedrill

Cryptoquote; I need a voiceboard-make that a voiceboard with an auto spell check.


26 posted on 06/17/2004 10:11:01 PM PDT by Old Professer (lust; pure, visceral groin-grinding, sweat-popping, heart-pounding staccato bursts of shooting stars)
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To: sarasmom

If you heard the first shot, and it's not the last thing you ever heard, a reasonable person should consider it a tracer round. ;^) This is a great tag line!


27 posted on 06/17/2004 10:12:18 PM PDT by Never2baCrat (I used to be modest, now I'm perfect!)
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To: Old Professer
Tolerance is not a conditioned response.

Good heavens, what a lovely idea. Perhaps it isn't. I'm going to have to give that proposition some serious thought. Because it undermines a very good deal of modern pedagogy, doesn't it? Then what is being taught in the stifling atmosphere of political correctness isn't tolerance at all, it is merely fear of punishment. And that's about right, isn't it?

And if tolerance is really the respect given by a free man to another's freedom, then depriving him of freedom is hardly likely to advance the cause of tolerance. Is it?

At least a three-beer problem, Dr. Watson...

28 posted on 06/17/2004 10:24:54 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: ExSoldier

>>a Constitution that actually restrains their government from messing them over. <<

Where did you get this idea? Not here in the US that's for sure. The Constitution is ignored by the legislators and the courts.


29 posted on 06/17/2004 10:27:48 PM PDT by B4Ranch ( GET READY!!..-> http://www.ready.gov/get_a_kit.html)
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To: Billthedrill

Six, if I've counted correctly, but then, I started at 7:45 A.M. as usual.


30 posted on 06/17/2004 10:37:07 PM PDT by Old Professer (lust; pure, visceral groin-grinding, sweat-popping, heart-pounding staccato bursts of shooting stars)
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To: B4Ranch
"The Constitution is ignored by the legislators and the courts."

I'm not talking about the harsh reality, I'm talking of the original purpose of the Bill of Rights, not the way in which it has been misapplied. The 2nd Amendment should give us Vermont style concealed carry rights. Does it? For that matter, the 4th Amendment has been whittled away to almost nothing over the years, especially as it is applied to modes of transportation. But without doubt, the original intent as noted in the Federalist papers as well as the Anti-Federalist Papers was to act as a restraint against government interference in God given rights.

31 posted on 06/17/2004 10:45:39 PM PDT by ExSoldier (When the going gets tough, the tough go cyclic.)
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To: ExSoldier
The problem is we live in the world of reality and the bastards in Washington have canceled out everything the Founders intended for our Nation.

Old Glory is just a nuisance to them, not something they respect. The cute blue flag is the one they want to see above the Federal buildings now. Too soon for me, it will be there!
32 posted on 06/17/2004 11:09:57 PM PDT by B4Ranch ( GET READY!!..-> http://www.ready.gov/get_a_kit.html)
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To: B4Ranch
Okay, you get NO arguments from me on that score. Except I think the UN is nearly ready to implode from it's own inefficiency and corruption. As an organization, it's dying. What rises from it's ashes WILL rule the world. It's almost time to start looking for the "Leader" who will come forward and offer the "hope" that will tie everything together. Get my drift?
33 posted on 06/18/2004 3:22:01 AM PDT by ExSoldier (Paranoid is what the LAZY call: the Determined and Prepared.)
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To: TXnMA
Where can I join? "

TSRA had a Dallas office when I lived there. Looks like they are in Addison now.

34 posted on 06/18/2004 4:24:25 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: Rytwyng
RE: Post 19;

The question of questions is, how much more evidence do these gun-control people need, before they give up and say, "Oops, we were wrong!" ???

FYI to you and seemingly everyone else on this thread;

It should have been obvious by now that the real adgenda of gun grabbers is not to deter "gun crime", but to disarm us citizens. And it matters not that we have good arguments against gun registration, because they will keep at it until we (law abiding) are completely disarmed. They will not give up.

35 posted on 06/18/2004 9:21:46 AM PDT by Designer (Sysiphus Sr. to Junior; "It was uphill, all the way, both ways!")
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To: Designer
It should have been obvious by now that the real adgenda of gun grabbers is not to deter "gun crime", but to disarm us citizens

Sadly, all available evidence suggests that you are correct. Molon Labe!

36 posted on 06/20/2004 6:21:11 PM PDT by Rytwyng (we're here, we're Huguenots, get used to us)
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To: ExSoldier
"I think these guys are not talking about a literal invasion, just politics as usual"

Sir, I did gather that from the article. However, an intrusion into our domestic affairs, as the NDP threatens, is meddling with our sovereignty, wouldn't you say?

Also, nobody is talking about an invasion of Canada, I'm glad to hear.

FReeRegards

37 posted on 06/21/2004 6:36:10 PM PDT by Freemeorkillme
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To: Freemeorkillme
" an intrusion into our domestic affairs, as the NDP threatens, is meddling with our sovereignty...."

Absolutely correct. But it's nothing the UN hasn't been trying for years (ever since it's creation in fact) and they're getting plenty of encouragement from our very own RATS. Deal with the threat from within, first. Then the outside threat won't matter a damn anyway.

38 posted on 06/21/2004 7:19:30 PM PDT by ExSoldier (Paranoid is what the LAZY call: The Determined and Prepared.)
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To: ExSoldier

agreed. We keep the one eye open.


39 posted on 06/21/2004 8:23:34 PM PDT by Freemeorkillme
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