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FIRST, THEY CAME FOR THE TRUTH (Fr. Martin Niemoeller was a phony)
Best Writers ^ | 17 June 2004 | Michael Shaw

Posted on 06/18/2004 12:59:32 PM PDT by mrustow

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To: Dick Holmes

I would tend to think the letter was a fraud for a couple reasons.

1. I'm fairly certain the Bonhoeffer and Niemoller communicated a good deal during the 30's about what was happening in Germany and what the response of the church should be. Bonhoeffer took a stand against Hitler early on and publicly denounced (on radio I believe) the eugenics (against the handicapped etc) program and other "cleansing" movements that Hitler was instituting. It's hard to believe Niemoeller would have supported the Nazis in such things given their relationship and Bonhoeffer's stand. They were both instrumental in the Confessing Church movement.

2. If the Nazis could have enlisted Niemoeller in the military I have to believe they would have jumped all over it. For this noisy pastor to have been shown joining the German Army would have been an enormous coup and given real legitimacy to what the Nazis were doing. Niemoeller publicly defied Hitler to his face amongst a group of other pastors when Hitler was attempting to co-opt the churches and was seen as a real rabble rouser.

3. Given the fact that Niemoeller had been arrested by the Germans 6 times by 1937 indicates his resistance early on.

It's hard to believe that given his relationships, arrest record, public confrontation with Hitler and 7 year imprisonment that he agreed with the Nazis on much of anything. I'm certain that just as with Bonhoeffer (who like Niemoeller deeply loved Germany) he attempted to exhaust all possibilites in working with his government, but ultimately it became clear what he was up against and what he would have to do.


81 posted on 06/19/2004 7:18:03 AM PDT by bereanway
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To: catnfishdude

Uh yeah. I was being silly. I had thought it was pretty obvious..


82 posted on 06/19/2004 8:12:54 AM PDT by Chad Fairbanks (Welfare's purpose should be to eliminate, as far as possible, the need for its own existence.)
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To: jnarcus

Read #79.


83 posted on 06/19/2004 10:13:40 AM PDT by mrustow ("And when Moses saw the golden calf, he shouted out to the heavens, 'Jesus, Mary, and Joseph!'")
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To: claudiustg
What a foul, slanderous piece of propaganda! I don't see how anyone gains from such hateful musings, much less Catholics.

If you are right, then you will be able to point out where the writer lied. Otherwise, I will have to wrote you off as just another blowhard on a barstool.

84 posted on 06/19/2004 12:25:30 PM PDT by mrustow ("And when Moses saw the golden calf, he shouted out to the heavens, 'Jesus, Mary, and Joseph!'")
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To: stands2reason
First, they came for the verbs, and I said nothing for verbing weirds language.
Then they arrival for the nouns and I speech nothing for I no verbs.

Movement on floor laughter my a-- off!

85 posted on 06/19/2004 12:27:17 PM PDT by mrustow ("And when Moses saw the golden calf, he shouted out to the heavens, 'Jesus, Mary, and Joseph!'")
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To: mrustow

---Otherwise, I will have to wrote you off as just another blowhard on a barstool.---

That's rich coming from someone who posts an article claiming a dead man who was arrested 6 times by the Gestapo and held in Nazi prisons for 7 years, was a Nazi sympathizer, and then defends the article as if it was holy writ!


86 posted on 06/19/2004 4:35:49 PM PDT by claudiustg (Go Sharon! Go Bush!)
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To: Argh

Hmmm... interesting. Thanks for the ping, glad I didn't respond with my typical reflex. :-)


87 posted on 06/19/2004 5:33:17 PM PDT by RikaStrom (Involved vs. Committed- take bacon and eggs, for example, the hen is involved, the pig is committed.)
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To: bereanway

One of the reasons I am so found on Deitrich Bonhoffer is the fact that he had a chance ot stay in the US when he came here for a visit ( I think in 1939). People urged him not to go back but he went back anyway and was involved in some of the effort to get rid of Hitler early...That makes it easier and as you mention his writings are substantial from his time in prison ....


88 posted on 06/20/2004 12:09:09 AM PDT by jnarcus
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To: mrustow

read post #81...


89 posted on 06/20/2004 12:13:01 AM PDT by jnarcus
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To: bereanway

Bump in honor of Bonhoeffer and the Confessors.


90 posted on 06/21/2004 5:19:16 AM PDT by Taliesan (fiction police)
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To: mrustow
Granted, the writer is a Catholic, so he is generally fond of craven images

Ywhat do you mean by that?
91 posted on 06/21/2004 7:16:07 AM PDT by Cronos (W2K4!)
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To: bereanway
This author is simply attempting to smear a brave German pastor.

possibly.
92 posted on 06/21/2004 7:17:14 AM PDT by Cronos (W2K4!)
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