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NASA Ponders Shuttle Flight Without Two Key Changes
Yahoo ^ | 6/19/04 | Broward Liston - Reuters

Posted on 06/19/2004 7:49:01 PM PDT by NormsRevenge

CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. (Reuters) - NASA (news - web sites) is considering whether it can return its space shuttles to flight without making two safety improvements that have so far proved to be high hurdles for agency engineers, top officials said on Friday.

After the space shuttle Columbia disintegrated over Texas last year and killed the seven astronauts aboard, the Columbia Accident Investigation Board drafted a lengthy list of ambitious reforms.

Among other proposals, the board recommended NASA come up with a way to repair damage to the leading edge of a shuttle's wing, such as the kind that doomed Columbia in 2003.

It also said NASA should develop a way to inspect the underside of the shuttles for damage during the second day of flight. Columbia flew for 16 days without the crew or ground controllers knowing of the fatal hole that was out of sight from crew-compartment windows.

NASA engineers are working on a repair kit that could fix a large hole in a shuttle wing's leading edge. They are also trying to build a boom to inspect the orbiter's underside.

The tasks have proved challenging, so the space agency is considering whether it can launch the shuttles without those two upgrades.

Deputy Associate Administrator Michael Kostelnik stressed no decisions have been made.

In any case, NASA is committed to a plan that would supply the International Space Station (news - web sites) with enough food, water and oxygen that a stranded shuttle crew could live there until a rescue shuttle reached them 85 to 90 days later.

The shuttle Discovery is scheduled for launch between March 6 and April 18, 2005, on a mission that will test many improvements made since the loss of the Columbia.

"We will have changed more things on these vehicles than we've changed on any flight since STS-1," the first shuttle flight in 1981, Kostelnik said.

NASA is removing the orange foam from the area of the external tank that broke off 81 seconds after liftoff and damaged Columbia's wing, so officials said they were hopeful they would never have to deal with such a large hole again.

The foam, designed to keep ice from forming on the outside of the tank, will be replaced by heaters.

There would also be repair kits available to fix smaller cracks or holes up to 4 inches (10 cm) across.

As for the inspection, NASA would rely on a visual examination made by astronauts with cameras aboard the space station. That requires the shuttle to slowly spin around in space as cameras whir aboard the station before docking.

"Of all the things we have on the table, this rotation pitch maneuver is probably the best understood, and we've got the highest confidence in it," deputy shuttle program manager Wayne Hale said.

The final decision on safety measures will not be left to the shuttle program managers. An independent panel headed by retired astronauts Tom Stafford and Richard Covey will have to decide whether NASA is in full compliance with the investigation board's recommendations.


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: caib; keychanges; nasa; ponders; shuttleflight; without

1 posted on 06/19/2004 7:49:01 PM PDT by NormsRevenge
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To: NormsRevenge

doughtyone ponders a world without NASA


2 posted on 06/19/2004 7:53:19 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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Yesterday, AP article by Marcia Dunn...

NASA Lags in Shuttle Patch Development

CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. - When space shuttle flights resume, the astronauts will have putty and other filler to repair cracks and small gashes in the wings, but they will not be able to patch a hole as big as the one that doomed Columbia, NASA (news - web sites) said.

Michael Kostelnik, deputy associate administrator, said Friday it is taking longer than expected to come up with a technique for wrapping a crater as big as the one gouged in Columbia's wing by a chunk of foam last year.

Engineers also are behind in designing a boom for inspecting the belly of orbiting shuttles and the undersides of the wings, Kostelnik said. NASA hopes to have the boom ready for the first post-Columbia flight, still on track for next March. Kostelnik said NASA has yet to decide what it will do if the boom is not ready by then.

Discovery is scheduled to fly to the international space station and drop off badly needed supplies and replacement parts. The latest crew — an American and a Russian — has been aboard the space station since April.

The inspection boom would provide a 50-foot extension to the shuttle's 50-foot robot arm, and hold a set of sensors and lasers for finding holes. It could reach most if not all of the thermal protective layer on the ship's underside and possibly even support a spacewalking astronaut.

Discovery will be equipped with a puttylike material for filling any cracks in the wings, as well as plugs for holes up to 4 inches in size. But its crew will not be able to fix anything bigger than that in the leading edges of the wings, NASA said.

Columbia was brought down by a hole 6 to 10 inches in size in the leading edge of the left wing. The searing gases of re-entry entered the gash and melted the wing from the inside out, leading to the breakup of the shuttle over Texas on Feb. 1, 2003, and the deaths of all seven astronauts.

The task force overseeing NASA's flight preparations has yet to approve the decision by top space agency managers to skip the wrap repair for now.

Shuttle program director Bill Parsons stressed that NASA is not giving up on the wrap concept and that engineers will press ahead in coming up with a solution for holes over 4 inches.

But Kostelnik and Parsons said the main emphasis is on reducing the possibility of foam insulation coming off the external fuel tank during launch. NASA already has removed the foam from the area of the tank that shed a big piece during Columbia's launch.

Kostelnik said NASA will not resume shuttle flights "unless we can assure ourselves that we will not shed a piece of debris that can damage the orbiter."

The backup plan, at least for the first two flights, is to have a second shuttle ready to blast off for an emergency rescue. The crew of the damaged ship could wait at the space station for up to three months.

___

On the Net:

NASA: http://spaceflight.nasa.gov

3 posted on 06/19/2004 7:53:59 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi Mac ... Become a FR Monthly Donor ... In Memoriam Ronaldus Magnus)
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To: NormsRevenge

More of NASA's can't do attitude. If Rutan is successful on Monday noone will notice anyway.


4 posted on 06/19/2004 7:56:47 PM PDT by Moonman62
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To: NormsRevenge
Well, they flew for twenty years with a "let's hope that doesn't happen" strategy. Why not go back to that now?

(Yes, I am bitter.)

5 posted on 06/19/2004 7:58:19 PM PDT by atomicpossum (I give up! Entropy, you win!)
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To: NormsRevenge

If inspection boom is difficult (takes space and weighs too much), maybe a short inspection spacewalk can be done cheaper? Can be even combined with repairs on the same walk.


6 posted on 06/19/2004 7:59:34 PM PDT by GSlob
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To: GSlob

Almost ten years ago NASA developed and tested a microsatellite in space that can do the job. It probably isn't expensive enough. This is what happens when failure is rewarded with more money. SOP for the federal government.


7 posted on 06/19/2004 8:02:42 PM PDT by Moonman62
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To: Moonman62
That should be interesting to see ...

Good luck to the SpaceShipOne folks.

Big Secret: Who Will Fly SpaceShipOne?

8 posted on 06/19/2004 8:03:12 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi Mac ... Become a FR Monthly Donor ... In Memoriam Ronaldus Magnus)
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To: Moonman62
Yeah, you can smell the desperation at NASA over Rutan's firecracker, can't ya?

Prolly a huge scramble with gubmint lawyers poring over regulations at the EPA FDA OSHA BATF FBI NOAA to find something to tie him up. Mebbe forensic accountants will find some questionable non-reported possible income from 1966 and indict him...or they'll discover kiddy porn on his 'puter .

9 posted on 06/19/2004 8:22:15 PM PDT by dasboot (<img src="XXX">)
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To: DoughtyOne; NormsRevenge
doughtyone ponders a world without NASA

I do also (at least a non-manned one).

10 posted on 06/19/2004 8:27:07 PM PDT by RadioAstronomer
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To: NormsRevenge

nasa, what a bunch of chickens.


11 posted on 06/19/2004 8:28:59 PM PDT by greasepaint
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To: Moonman62
If Rutan is successful on Monday noone will notice anyway.

Unfortunately, Rutan is only reproducing what the X-15 did many years ago. It will be a long time before we see SSTO IMHO.

12 posted on 06/19/2004 8:29:26 PM PDT by RadioAstronomer
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To: dasboot
Yeah, you can smell the desperation at NASA over Rutan's firecracker, can't ya?

Not true. All the NASA folks I know are cheering for him.

13 posted on 06/19/2004 8:31:10 PM PDT by RadioAstronomer
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To: NormsRevenge
Big Secret: Who Will Fly SpaceShipOne?

I would give up my own seat (if I had one) if this fellow could do it.

14 posted on 06/19/2004 8:34:11 PM PDT by asgardshill
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To: RadioAstronomer

Including the top honchos, or just the grunts?


15 posted on 06/19/2004 8:37:38 PM PDT by dasboot (<img src="XXX">)
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To: RadioAstronomer
Unfortunately, Rutan is only reproducing what the X-15 did many years ago.

There's a big difference. He's doing it as a private citizen and with much fewer resources.

16 posted on 06/19/2004 8:38:17 PM PDT by Moonman62
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To: NormsRevenge
NASA is removing the orange foam from the area of the external tank that broke off 81 seconds after liftoff and damaged Columbia's wing, so officials said they were hopeful they would never have to deal with such a large hole again.

Why not just go back to the old foam, which didn't flake off? Oh, yeah, it's manufacture supposedly harmed the ozone layer... supposedly.

17 posted on 06/19/2004 8:46:28 PM PDT by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: NormsRevenge

Maybe they should hire a bunch of 15 year old nerd types and make it a contest. They'd have their boom and their repair kit before you know it.


18 posted on 06/19/2004 8:51:19 PM PDT by ClearBlueSky (Whenever someone says it's not about Islam...it's about Islam.)
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To: RadioAstronomer
Unfortunately, Rutan is only reproducing what the X-15 did many years ago. It will be a long time before we see SSTO IMHO.

Neither Space Ship One nor the X-15 were single stage. But then neither is the shuttle. In the former two cases though, everything is reusable, unlike the Shuttle, which throws away the external tank, and the rocket boosters require considerable refurbishing, if they are even doing that anymore, after the first shuttle disaster, which involved failure of an SRB.

X-15 and SS1 both were/are carried aloft by a mother ship, which then turns around and lands, readably for the next shot. They are also alike in that neither was designed to go into orbit, but were rather technology test beds for later systems that did/will go into orbit. The Shuttle was supposed to use a fly-back booster as well, but Congress and Nixon/Ford/Carter would not pay the up front money for design, which would have saved much more money later.

19 posted on 06/19/2004 8:57:54 PM PDT by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
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To: dasboot

Well, since I am just a grunt, that is all I talk to.


20 posted on 06/19/2004 9:27:59 PM PDT by RadioAstronomer
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To: Moonman62
He's doing it as a private citizen and with much fewer resources.

But with all of the knowledge gained from the years of NASA testing. I am not detracting what he is accomplishing, just that this is not an orbiting platform, nor will likely be for a long time.

21 posted on 06/19/2004 9:30:35 PM PDT by RadioAstronomer
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To: El Gato

I am well acquainted with how all three systems were designed and implemented. I am just commenting on the fact that we are an awful long way from SSTO.


22 posted on 06/19/2004 9:32:49 PM PDT by RadioAstronomer
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To: NormsRevenge

NASA's get-up-there-itis will prove a killer, once again.


23 posted on 06/19/2004 9:36:43 PM PDT by poindexter
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To: RadioAstronomer

I figgered. Grunts are, in their opinions, largely unsullied by ego, politics, or fear of reassignment to Guam, right? Burt Rutan is the 'Tucker" of aerospace engineering. (I was into hang-gliding, once, so I know a little about him) I'm cheering him, too. But for management at NASA, the institutional mediocrity is being exposed. Mebbe GW will ask Burt to be a cabinet-level Adviser for Space Exploration, just to make 'em blanch. HAHA


24 posted on 06/19/2004 9:55:26 PM PDT by dasboot (<img src="XXX">)
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To: NormsRevenge
There is a program for an "Advanced Health Management" system for the SSME (Space Shuttle Main Engine). Recently NASA decided to cut costs by eliminating the dedicated hardware (computer) and run the software on the existing 200-lb controller, which has less computing power than the HP calculator on my desk.

Smart move.

I predict the program will be terminated before any actual flights occur with an 'Advanced Health Management System' on board...

--Boris

25 posted on 06/19/2004 10:26:00 PM PDT by boris (The deadliest weapon of mass destruction in history is a Leftist with a word processor)
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To: RadioAstronomer
But with all of the knowledge gained from the years of NASA testing. I am not detracting what he is accomplishing, just that this is not an orbiting platform, nor will likely be for a long time.

And NASA benefited from the knowledge of German scientists amongst others. Shakespeare was known to borrow a story line or two. Newton stood on the shoulders of giants. In the long run, the private sector will win out.

26 posted on 06/19/2004 10:43:54 PM PDT by Moonman62
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To: NormsRevenge

Translation: The Shuttle is unsafe.

It's long past bedtime for this program. The Shuttle should be permanently grounded and the Space Station abandoned. Back to the drawing board!


27 posted on 06/19/2004 10:57:14 PM PDT by You Dirty Rats (WE WILL WIN WITH W - Isara)
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To: You Dirty Rats

27 - "Translation: The Shuttle is unsafe. "

space flight has always been unsafe. The orbiter will be 'safer' if they address the problems, but it will never be 'safe'.

The two problems they write up in the story are fixable, if they will do it.

1. Fixing the foam on the external tank should solve the problem about punching large holes in the wings.

2. And they already designed a robot inspection camera years ago, which could inspect for damage.

3. There are however other structural problems, and numbers of things which make it less safe than it could be.

4. However, the biggest safety problem is the NASA culture. which is what killed both the Challenger and the Colombia.


28 posted on 06/19/2004 11:16:51 PM PDT by XBob (Free-traitors steal our jobs for their profit.)
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To: snopercod; KevinDavis

ping


29 posted on 06/19/2004 11:18:43 PM PDT by XBob (Free-traitors steal our jobs for their profit.)
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To: NormsRevenge

This thing is, and was, death on a platter.


30 posted on 06/20/2004 1:12:48 AM PDT by Fulbright
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To: You Dirty Rats
The Shuttle should be permanently grounded and the Space Station abandoned.

...and Columbus should have stayed home where it was safe.

31 posted on 06/20/2004 4:21:00 AM PDT by snopercod (A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one." --Hamilton)
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To: NormsRevenge; XBob
Discovery is scheduled to fly to the international space station and drop off badly needed supplies and replacement parts.

That's ignorant-media-speak for the momentum wheels (gyroscopes), which are too heavy for the Progress to carry. If the station loses just one more, it will have to be abandoned.

32 posted on 06/20/2004 4:24:45 AM PDT by snopercod (A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one." --Hamilton)
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To: asgardshill

He-hehe. I got that fellow to sign my logbook once.


33 posted on 06/20/2004 4:27:50 AM PDT by snopercod ("Never let a day go by without trying to have a little fun." - Chuck Yeager)
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To: Moonman62

Aren't these the same folks that managed to send a glorified R/C dune buggy to Mars to take photos? You'd think a small, dedicated UAV would be a no-brainer for these guys. Why complicate the the cargo arm?


34 posted on 06/20/2004 4:49:38 AM PDT by AngryJawa (The Original Grumpy Gen-Xer)
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To: Moonman62
And NASA benefited from the knowledge of German scientists amongst others. Shakespeare was known to borrow a story line or two. Newton stood on the shoulders of giants. In the long run, the private sector will win out.

Only if there is a profit.

35 posted on 06/20/2004 12:13:13 PM PDT by RadioAstronomer
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To: AngryJawa
You'd think a small, dedicated UAV would be a no-brainer for these guys

How would you control it? Could you ensure it would not impact the Shuttle by accident?

36 posted on 06/20/2004 12:14:19 PM PDT by RadioAstronomer
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To: snopercod
That's ignorant-media-speak for the momentum wheels (gyroscopes), which are too heavy for the Progress to carry. If the station loses just one more, it will have to be abandoned.

Indeed. If the station is abandoned and starts to tumble, would we be able to dock safaly in the future?

37 posted on 06/20/2004 12:15:40 PM PDT by RadioAstronomer
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To: RadioAstronomer

Look at the commercial airlines. Over their decades long history, I think they are sum total in the red.


38 posted on 06/20/2004 1:34:38 PM PDT by Moonman62
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To: RadioAstronomer
I don't see how, especially with the newer "safer" NASA in charge. Maybe the Russians would try it, but what could they do?

I guess if they left enough propellant onboard to use thrusters to stabilize the beast so the Shuttle could dock, that might work. I don't know the propellant figures of late. I'm betting that is getting low as well.

39 posted on 06/20/2004 1:44:55 PM PDT by snopercod ("Never let a day go by without trying to have a little fun." - Chuck Yeager)
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To: Moonman62

I hope you are right. I got into the space program because I have loved it ever since I was a wee lad.


40 posted on 06/20/2004 2:28:43 PM PDT by RadioAstronomer
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To: snopercod

I hear ya! I pissed off a few managers a year ago when I called the ISS "Mir-2". LOL!


41 posted on 06/20/2004 2:29:57 PM PDT by RadioAstronomer
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