Vin Suprynowicz: Libertarians aim to 'cost Bush the election'

Las Vegas Review Journal ^ | June 20, 2004 | Vin Suprynowicz

[gcruse]

vote for Kerry and the end of our Republic.

Why wait?  Ashcroft is bringing the end of our Republic as we speak.  His, and by extension, Bush's raping and pillaging of the Tenth Amendment are centralizing authority in Washington DC, destroying the republic as we know it.  You don't even have to vote for Kerry.  Just sit tight and watch the endarkenment.

[Jack Black]

No one man can.

Your right, of course. Still I have seen little in that direction from him. He hasn't done horrible things like the Clinton late term land grabs, the pardons, etc. On the other hand he's done nothing to cut the size of our big fat government. He hasn't used the veto. He hasn't used the bully pulpit. All of his political capital has been spent on the war in Iraq. He has continued to pandor to Mexicans with his immigration policy.

I realize no one man can restore the Republic, but for us to have any chance of that we'll need to have a leader who gets it. Maybe even one who leads. Rereading some of Reagan's speeches one is left not only impressed by his vision, but saddened by the lack of direction of W. on moving us in the right direction.

[blanknoone]

My only point is that libertarianism could become a viable political movement...but only after it convinces a significant number of people of its philosophy. There is nothing inherent in the philosophy that makes it non-viable. Neither the pot focus nor the refusal to cooperate with non-libertarians is inherent in the philosophy itself, those are both dysfunctions of the political party, not the ideology.

I also think it would be worthwhile for Republicans to clarify exactly what their ideology is...or is it really just a collection of diverse special interest groups?

Conservatism had a thriving ideological base, but the ideological end of it is withering before our eyes. But even in that regard...is the R party even really politically conservative?

[Badray]

"Nobody from the US Federal Government will never bother them again."

Josh, that's enough reason to make me want to be a libertarian.

I think that the problem all of you (and at the risk guarantee of being flamed) supposedly smart people are having is that you are like the blind men trying to describe an elephant when each of them are only touching different parts of the animal.

Do you look at Arlen Specter and Lincoln Chaffee and think that they are the GOP? Or do you realize that they are only a part of it?

Do you look at Zell Miller and, and, and, ..... OK, there are no other good Democrats, but do you look at Zell and proclaim that the Dems are finally getting it?

Of course not and you shouldn't. But neither should you focus on the nut cases who have a Kodak moment. Yes there are nut cases in the LP (BTW, I am a registered Republican who doesn't use any drugs and rartely even takes prescribed medications). The GOP had David Duke. So what?

You are doing what the media AND the two major parties wants you to do and that is to focus on drugs to discredit the many good ideas that Libertarians bring to the table. And for all of those who want to do drugs there are probably 10 times as many who never touch drugs but want the government to stay the hell out of their lives. The war on drugs is a bigger problem and a bigger threat to our liberties than any pothead or crack addict will ever be.

[farmfriend]

He hasn't done horrible things like the Clinton late term land grabs, the pardons, etc.

You should see the land grab our wonderful new R governor is pushing through here in CA. Socialism at it's finest. He is pushing a bill, one of his campaign promises that got ignored, that would turn the entire Sierra Nevada mountain range into a conservancy. And to provide those "willing sellers", they are passing an "invasive species" bill. Two huge budget black hole beuracracies and the ultimate in land grabs.

[farmfriend]

Conservatism had a thriving ideological base, but the ideological end of it is withering before our eyes.

Here in CA it is because of the mistaken belief that conservatives can't get elected and the party leadership pushes "moderates" on us.

But even in that regard...is the R party even really politically conservative?

Not here in CA it isn't. If our new governor is an example, they seem to be more socialist than the Dems.

[Hank Rearden]

Republicans, especially, are scared to death to debate Libertarians because it's so easy to expose the R's as just another Big Stupid Government party.

Now that they control everything, they're out of excuses about why they won't deliver on promises of limited government. Record and accellerating spending, record deficits and vote-buying scams like "free" pills for greedy geezers aren't exactly limiting government. Nor is the assault on the First Amendment and continuing subsidies for everything from tobacco to mohair.

[Dane]

The war on drugs is a bigger problem and a bigger threat to our liberties than any pothead or crack addict will ever be

Well to test out your theory, would you mind the house next door to you or even your neighborhood be declared a "do any drug you want to" zone.

Surely you wouldn't mind.

[Dane]

The GOP had David Duke. So what?

Psst Ray, david duke was never welcomed and kicked out.

[Mulder]

A vote for anyone but Bush is a vote for Kerry and the end of our Republic.

Get real. How is voting for candidate "C" instead of "A" or "B", automatically a vote for candidate "B"?

And regardless of who wins, it's not going to be the "end of the Republic". One guy is just going to accelerate the decline a little faster than the other.

[Josh in PA]

Badray..

We focus on the Drug issue when we think about Libertarians, because thats ALL LIBERTARIANS TALK ABOUT

That's #1 on their list.

They talk about legalizing marijuana before they talk about eliminating taxes, private rights, and individual responsibility.

They are not representing themselves very well when that's there #1 issue, when they have many very good ideas that aren't focused on.

It's their fault they are still a minnow compared to even the Green Party. They are picking the battles they can't win, when they should be trying to win over the population with battles that they CAN WIN. Such as the ones I just mentioned.

[farmfriend]

I have to agree with your assessment.

[Badray]

It's already going on in many of the nicest neighborhoods and finest houses in the country. I don't know which house and I really don't care.

If they violate no one, it's no one's business. If they come into my home uninvited to try to finance their activity, they will run into my own version of Homeland Security.

[rdb3]

Rereading some of Reagan's speeches one is left not only impressed by his vision, but saddened by the lack of direction of W. on moving us in the right direction.

With all due respect, this is a fatal flaw among many conservatives/Republicans. No, George Walker Bush is not Ronald Wilson Reagan. Jack Black is not Reagan. rdb3 is not Reagan with a tan. Only Reagan was Reagan.

Sure. We can all get together and beat up on GW for what he has not done. But I for one give him a standing ovation for what he has done in the War on Terror. This war must be fought and it must be won. Period. End of story. And in this effort, I believe GW to be the right man at the right time. His not being Reagan-like does not take away from the credit he deserves on this one issue, and I believe that on this issue he is leading us in the right direction.

GW is in no way perfect, but the good is not the enemy of the perfect.

$710.96.. The price of freedom.

[Dane]

It's already going on in many of the nicest neighborhoods and finest houses in the country. I don't know which house and I really don't care.

And you know this how?

If they violate no one, it's no one's business. If they come into my home uninvited to try to finance their activity, they will run into my own version of Homeland Security

Fine then go to your neighbors and ask them to make your neighborhood a "do any drug you want zone". Obviously since you are insinuating that evrybody in your neighborhood is doing illicit drugs, you should get a good response, IMO.

I knda of doubt it though.

[ServesURight]

If they would focus their party around no federal taxes, personal liberty, private land ownership, etc.. they could make great inroads and become a minor player in U.S. politics.

I've been saying this for years on FR before Boortz ever mentioned it. The LP needs to get away from the Drug War, prostitution, homosexuals, and focus on the meat-and-potato issues that resonate with the majority of people. But noooo....people have a right to get high, you know. And the borders need to be free and open.

They they wonder why they get less than 1/10th of 1% of the vote in elections. Oh sure, they're the "biggest" third-party out there, but look who hold what positions - Village clerk, town water board, a city council member here and a municipal judge there....no senators, reps, governors, not even at the state level.

[MarkL]

Libertarians seem to be mostly ex-democrats

Not all of us... I was a conservative republican, but moved strongly to the (small l, now AKA boortz wing) libertarian point of view.

My problem was directly due to the war on drugs. No, I don't really give a darn about marijuana. My problem was with the way that republican administrations dealt with issues related to the WOD, like the "asset forfeiture" laws. And of course, I was excited that President Reagan might actually be able to shrink government, but the congress managed to defeat him on that. And unfortunately, the republican presidents following him didn't even give lip service to reducing the size of government. Even during the Gingritch days, congress just kept increasing the size of government.

This libertarian looks at the following, in this order, when making a vote:

The Constitutionality of any legislation

National Security

Second Amendment Rights

First Amendment Rights (Specifically, freedom of speech, not this crap about "the wall between church and state!")

Taxes and property rights

Personal Freedom and liberty (and yes, this includes laws regarding drugs on the federal level. I believe it's a states' rights issue)

Go ahead, and attack me for my views! Like President Reagan and the democratic party, I didn't leave the republican party: They left me.

Mark

[Badray]

I guess that we run in different circles.

I agree that I have run into that type a few times, but in my area -- Pittsburgh, PA -- we have a very (yikes) conservative party. It's predominantly pro life, adamantly pro-gun, vocally in favor of lower taxes and smaller government. They are not the long haired, maggot infested, doobie doing hippies you are seeing.

I take strong issue with their anti-war stance, but domesticly I'm more in line with them than I am with the GOP. Unless Bush DOES something (not just talks about it) dramatic to demonstrate more respect for the Constitution, Michael Badnarik will get my vote in November. I think that Bush will lose by as big a margin in PA this year as he did in 2000, so my vote is really a protest against his domestic policies and really will not effect the outcome of the race.

[Dane]

Not attacking you but like Boortz, I notice that you too are silent on abortion.

[Dane]

Michael Badnarik will get my vote in November

Then you are admitting that you are pro-abortion and pro-gay marriage.

Not very conservative, IMO.