Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

RED ALERT: Socialist agenda being pushed through the California Legislature

Posted on 06/20/2004 10:15:39 PM PDT by farmfriend

Socialist agenda being pushed through the California Legislature.

ALERT:Hearing scheduled for Sierra Nevada Conservancy bills 6/29/04

AB 2600 (Laird)

SUMMARY : Creates within the Resources Agency the Sierra Nevada Conservancy (Conservancy) to acquire and manage land for various specified public objectives, and to make grants for those purposes, in the Sierra Nevada-Cascade Mountain Region.

AB 1788 (Leslie)

SUMMARY : Creates within the Resources Agency the Sierra Nevada Conservancy (Conservancy) to acquire and manage land for various specified public objectives, and to make grants for those purposes, in the Sierra Nevada Region.

AB 2631 (Wolk)

SUMMARY : Establishes an interagency council (more government bureaucracy) to consider ways to coordinate state efforts to eradicate and control invasive species.


Analysis from the Assembly on AB 2600:

FISCAL EFFECT : According to the Assembly Appropriations Committee analysis:

1.Moderate ongoing costs, about $300,000 annually starting in fiscal year (FY) 2005-06, to the Resources Agency to provide staff and other resources to the Conservancy, payable from the General Fund (GF), Environmental License Plate Fund, Proposition 50 bond proceeds, or some combination thereof.

2.Substantial cost pressures, in the range of $5 million to $10 million annually starting in FY 2005-06, to fund the acquisition of public lands with the Conservancy's jurisdiction, payable from the GF, Proposition 50 bond proceeds, or a future resources bond measure.

They will fund through General Fund support, statewide propositions and other sources.
This scary document outlines the enormous amount of money the conservancy will request, and some ideas about how to get it.

COMMENTS : Pursuant to enactments going back to 1933, with the creation of the Wildlife Conservation Board, the Legislature has recognized the utility of multi-agency entities for land conservation. Since 1973, the Legislature has created eight conservancies in specified areas of the state having similar or related resource conservation objectives. According to the Legislative Analyst's report California's Land Conservation Efforts: The Role of State Conservancies, "Generally, state conservancies are most effective where specific land resources of extraordinary, unique value to the entire state are found to be inadequately protected..." [page 13; emphasis in original].

The Sierra Nevada is a large, distinct region of the state, in terms of its geology, plant communities, wildlife, and climate zones. Its rich natural resources and wide range of recreational opportunities qualifies it as a specific geographic area of exceptional statewide, and arguably global, importance and therefore is, by the Legislative Analyst's criteria, appropriate for protection by a multi-agency conservancy.

According to the Sierra Nevada Conservancy Working Group's July 2002 report, "Sierra Nevada Resource Investment Needs Assessment," the Sierra Nevada supplies 60% of California's water, but 23 of its 24 watersheds are impaired; population is projected to triple between 1990 and 2040 and the accompanying residential development increasingly threatens farms and other working landscapes; annual recreational visit-days are now about 50 million, a 75% increase in the past 15 years; and the region's overall economy is changing rapidly from resource extraction and development to business activities that serve or employ increasing numbers of recreational visitors and retirees and other migrants from areas outside the region.

According to Governor Schwarzenegger's Action Plan for California's Environment" ( www.joinarnold.com/en/agenda ), "The Sierra Nevada Mountain Range [sic] is one of the state's crown jewels. Yet, unlike many of California's other natural treasures, it has no conservancy. As Governor I will propose establishment of a Sierra Nevada Mountains [sic] Conservancy." ,P>

AB 1788 (Leslie) also proposes to create a Sierra Nevada Conservancy. AB 2600 differs from AB 1788 in the following principal respects:

a) AB 2600 defines the western boundary of the Sierra Nevada Region as extending down to about the 500-foot elevation contour, which include small portions of the extreme eastern side of the Central Valley. This western boundary encompasses major lakes and reservoirs and long reaches of the Sierra rivers as they descend through the mountains to the valley floor. The region defined in AB 1788 includes large portions of the eastern portions of the Central Valley and, in Tehama, Fresno, and Kern Counties, it extends across the valley into the Coast Range. The core region defined in AB 1788, where presumably the Conservancy's activities will be concentrated, is significantly smaller than the region defined in AB 2600. In particular, because AB 1788 uses the 1,500-foot elevation contour as the western boundary of the core region, long reaches of the deep canyons of the principal rivers of the Sierra and many lakes and reservoirs situated below that elevation are excluded from the core region;

b) On the governing board proposed in AB 2600, two members are state officials and five are appointees from the general public. On the governing board proposed in AB 1788, 13 of the 20 voting members are supervisors from Sierra counties or residents of the core region. The difference in composition can in part be attributed to whether the Conservancy is perceived as having regional or statewide significance;

c) AB 2600 requires its Conservancy board to act by a simple majority of the total appointed membership, that is, by four of the seven voting members. AB 1788 requires that the Conservancy's executive director be approved by at least 2/3 of the governing board, that is, by 14 of the 20 voting members;

d) AB 2600 requires the Conservancy to cooperate and consult with affected local governments and to base its project priorities on local general plans and recreation plans. AB 1788 instead prohibits the Conservancy from acquiring any property interest or making a grant for that purpose unless it documents the proposed use, management, and financing of management costs of the acquired property. Somewhat inconsistently, AB 1788 makes Conservancy projects and grants subject to all general and specific plans of local governments, which would not necessarily anticipate the management needs of the property to be acquired;

e) AB 2600 has no specific provisions regarding water management and water rights. AB 1788 has detailed provisions, based on the San Gabriel and Lower Los Angeles Rivers and Mountains Conservancy's statute, governing water management and water rights;

f) AB 1788 authorizes the Resources Secretary to resolve any dispute over jurisdiction between the Conservancy and other conservancies. AB 2600 has no comparable provision; and,

g) AB 2600 will become operative on January 1, 2005. AB 1788 does not become operative until the Legislature appropriates funds to carry out the bill or until a bond act is approved that includes an allocation of funds for the purposes of the bill.


Analysis from the legislature itself on AB 2631:

FISCAL EFFECT : Establishes a new state agency with a number of duties and responsibilities to be carried out all over the state. This bill does not identify any source of funding, except what the Legislature may appropriate in the future. There will be a considerable cost to the state of carrying out all the activities and responsibilities addressed in this bill. Presumably, existing programs would be folded into the Council's program, so the funding for those programs could be transferred to the Council, but the scope of the Council's responsibilities as set forth in this bill exceeds the scope of the collective efforts of all the existing agencies and programs.

COMMENTS : This bill apparently arose out of a workshop convened by the Nature Conservancy in January 2003. Participating in the workshop were state and federal officials, universities, industry associations, and non-governmental organizations. The workshop participants came to consensus that there needs to be more efficient coordination of existing activities, as well as a statewide strategy for addressing terrestrial, aquatic, and marine invasive species.

There is a vast number of plant, animal, bird, fish, insect, microbial, and other species that have been either deliberately or unintentionally introduced into California. Most of these non-native species are benign and have brought great benefits to the inhabitants of the state. Most ornamental plants, for instance, are introduced, as well as pets, livestock, game fish, some wildlife, crops, grape vines, fruit trees, forage grasses, etc. Some non-native species, on the other hand, are highly detrimental to the environment, including yellow star-thistle, Zebra mussels, Chinese mitten crabs, pine bark beetles, West Nile Virus, Exotic Newcastle disease, Caulerpa taxifolia, Giant Reed (Arundo donax), tamarisk (saltcedar), Mediterranean fruitfly, and others. A U.S. Environmental Protection Agency report estimates that a new non-native species is introduced into San Francisco Bay from the ballast water of cargo ships every 14 weeks.

The author acknowledges that California has several strong pest prevention and eradication programs. As well, California has a number of committees, interagency panels, and ad hoc working groups that address individual invasive species and threats. The federal government, as well, has many programs to control the interstate or international transportation of invasive species. Although many of these programs have been highly successful, the thesis of this bill is that more could be accomplished if all the efforts of all these groups were coordinated and a statewide strategy adopted. The author argues that the various agencies and other interested groups need to consolidate their joint authorities and coordinate their efforts and their funds.

This bill, however, goes much farther. It authorizes the Council to identify, list, and classify all non-native species in the state. The Council would then be authorized to establish programs to control and eradicate detrimental species. Finally, the Council would be authorized to restore native species that have been crowded out.

As originally introduced, this bill created a vast regulatory, permitting, and enforcement program. This bill has been substantially reduced in scope, but still creates a major new state program. Interested groups have participated in working groups that have re-written much of this bill, but many still have significant concerns.

A major concern is the funding for the program proposed in this bill. Although the funding for all the existing programs would presumably be rolled into funding for the Council, the Council is charged with many powers and duties that go well beyond the powers and duties of the existing agencies and departments. Additional funding would be needed, and probably could not entirely be supported by permit fees. The additional funding would need to come from the General Fund.

Although the underlying idea of better coordinating state (and federal) efforts to fight invasive species and developing a statewide strategy is a good one, this bill goes far beyond that goal. To carry out all the requirements of this bill would require a large bureaucratic structure with a full-time professional staff.


An Analysis of Arnold Schwarzenegger's Environmental Policy

A Sierra umbrella? - Conservancy proposed to protect mountain range

CA freepers, RED ALERT RED ALERT!!!

CA freepers, RED ALERT Thread 2

CA: Sierra Conservancy bills seek funding for range

Socialist who are pushing this legislation.


Newsletter for the California Association of Business, Property and Resource Owners (CABPRO)
Volume 10, Number 3 - April, 2004
Page 5

Sierra Nevada Conservancy

State legislation has been introduced to again attempt to create a Sierra Nevada Conservancy. Two bills are now pending in the State Assembly, with a hearing on both set for April 19 in Sacramento with the Assembly Natural Resources Committee. Assemblyman Tim Leslie (R-Tahoe City) introduced AB 1788 on January 5.

Assemblyman John Laird (DSanta Cruz) introduced AB 2600 on February 20. Both bills establish a new state agency known as the Sierra Nevada Conservancy, covering numerous counties but excluding the Lake Tahoe region (it already has a conservancy). The Conservancy would have powers to acquire private land or interests.

In AB 1788, the Conservancy’s operations would be funded either as part of the State Budget or as bond acts allocate monies. In AB 2600, $30 million from Prop 50 would be its funding source. Another notable difference between the two bills is that AB 1788 requires "a resolution in support of that acquisition and the land management plan applicable to the acquisition has been approved by the county or city that exercises general planning authority and jurisdiction over that parcel." (Section 33351 (c)) CABPRO asked for that when the first Sierra Nevada Conservancy bill was working its way through Sacramento in 2002! However, AB 2600 does not seek support from the local jurisdiction. There are other differences as well. These differences will be presented in the next issue of our newsletter.

Partly as a result of increasing acquisitions for open space and other preservation purposes, Field Director Pat Davison has written a discussion draft supporting property tax reimbursement back to the counties when these private parcels or development rights are taken off the tax rolls. The concept entails adding an additional amount onto the purchase price that represents a one-time lump sum to be given to the affected county.

Although the federal government has a program in place to "pay" counties an amount per acre of federal lands (i.e. PILT = Payment In Lieu of Taxes), the state has no such program. So when expansion of Donner State Park or South Yuba State Park occurs, the state pays the property owner for the land but there is no payment or consideration given to the county that had previously received property tax income from the land.

Some opposition to that concept has arisen, based on the potential that the neighboring property tax value increases because the adjacent property now abuts open space.

No quantification of that potential increase has been done in Nevada County. Also, the suggestion that increased tourism, and more tax revenue, will result from more open space has not been quantified at the local level either.

Your CABPRO Board will be discussing our position on both Conservancy bills and the "property tax reimbursement" concept at future meetings.

Contact the office if you want a copy of the "property tax reimbursement" discussion draft, or download it from our website.


Supes say no Nature Conservancy
Apr 19, 2004
By Ami Ridling, Staff Writer
Plumas County news on-line

Does the Sierra Nevada region need a state-mandated conservancy to direct the management of, and hold the power to conserve, public lands? The Plumas County Board of Supervisors does not think so, and they will do everything in their power to stop a conservancy from forming.

Two controversial bills, AB1788, authored by Republican Assemblyman Tim Leslie, and AB 2600, authored by Democrat Assemblyman John Laird, are currently making their way through the legislature. If one or both are passed, the Sierra Nevada Conservancy will be born.

At their April 13 meeting, the supervisors voted in favor of writing a letter opposing the two bills to the state.

"These (conservancy) groups are our enemy," said Supervisor Bill Dennison. He said the bills would impose on private property owners' rights.

Supervisor Robert Meacher suggested that Dennison, who will write and send the letter of opposition, be careful with the words he uses in his message. He said that "tact" is necessary in this situation, especially since Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger himself has fueled the bills.

AB 1788 and AB 2600 are similar. The main differences in the two bills are that AB 2600 would not allow for local representation on the Sierra Nevada Conservancy governing board. AB1788, however, calls for two supervisors from each of the five Sierra Nevada subregions, to sit on the governing board.

For more on this story, along with other local stories and features, please see this week's printed newspaper. To subscribe, use the form on this Web site or call 530-283-0800.


Los Angeles Times
June 5, 2004
EDITORIAL: A Jewel Worth Protecting

When Arnold Schwarzenegger campaigned for governor last fall, he called the Sierra Nevada "one of the state's crown jewels" and said that if he was elected he would support establishment of a Sierra Nevada conservancy. The Sierra deserves all superlatives, but it is an asset under stress. The governor should fulfill his promise this year.

The Assembly has passed AB 2600 by Assemblyman John Laird (D-Santa Cruz) to create a Sierra conservancy within the state Resources Agency. It would be similar to eight other such groups established by the Legislature since 1973, including the Santa Monica Mountains, the Coastal and the Lake Tahoe conservancies. These organizations identify and work to conserve wildlife habitat, watersheds, historic and cultural areas and open space. They may use state bond funds or grants from nonprofit foundations to purchase prime private lands threatened by development.

(snip)

The natural resources that make the region so attractive to both new residents and new businesses need protection. Too many areas, including the Mammoth Lakes region, could succumb to the syndrome of "loving it to death," awaking too late to the need for regional planning and protection of resources.

Both the Laird and Leslie bills passed and went to the Senate, which should work out an acceptable compromise on the issue of local participation. Then the governor could sign the legislation in a ceremony beside a sparkling creek and meadow abutting lofty spires of Sierra granite. Everyone could proclaim victory.


Government land by state
All values are in thousands (000's) of acres except %'s.

California - Total area of the state 99,822.70
Total Area Owned by State and Federal Gov'ts 52,085.90
% of State's Total Area 52.1%
Owned by Federal Gov't. 49,842.30
% of State's Tot. Area 49.9%
Owned by State 2,243.60
% of State's Tot. Area 2.2%


The following information was taken from a new publication entitled "Managing Federal Forests in the 21st Century" and published by American Forest & Paper Association, Washington DC 20036. The following facts can be and should be shared with co-workers, your family and your neighbors. It's high time for us in the timber industry to educate people about the importance of our forests and how public policy is threatening our very livelihood.

How much land is forested in the U.S.?
About a third. The total U.S. land area is more than 2 billion acres. Forested acres in the U.S. total 747 million acres. 192 million of them are in the National Forest System.

Who owns America's forests?
Federal, state and local government agencies own 37%. The forest product industry owns 9%. The remaining 54% of America's forests are owned by private citizens.

Are all National Forest System lands available for timber harvesting?
No. 75% of our national forest system is intentionally set aside for non-commercial uses and is not managed for timber or other resource production.

Is tree growth outpacing timber harvesting in the U.S.?
Yes. In 1996, the last year for which complete figures are available, net forest growth exceeded harvest in every region of the U.S.

What is the greatest threat to federal forests?
Disease, insect infestations and catatsrophic wildfire exacerbated by conflicting policies and mandates and frivolous lawsuits brought by several national environmental groups paralyzing federal land managers.

Who should be concerned about the forest health crisis on public lands?
Every American. It is not just people who live in and around national forests who are at risk. Recreational opportunities for all of us are threatened, wildlife habitat is threatened and whether they realize it or not, every American depends on the forests for clean drinking water and clean air.


My letter to the editor of the Sacramento Bee.

I read the article on the next round of the poisoning of Lake Davis (Lake Davis on hook again, May 31, 2004) dreading what it portends for the rest of the state. This will soon be the standard.

AB 2631 is an invasive species bill that has passed the Assembly and is now in the Senate. The intent is to go after mitten crabs and star thistle. The implications are much worse.

Are we going to go after barred owls that are displacing the spotted owl? How about the wild horses roaming the arid areas? Are we going to change our policy on coho salmon? Archeology shows these fish are not native to CA. What about all those eucalyptus trees? Shall we cut them all?

And the budget! How is the creation of a whole new bureaucracy going to effect that?

And to those who think that the ESA took their property rights away, wait until you can’t build that dream house or plow that field or graze those cattle because they want to promote some native grass, endangered or not.


Find your State Senator here.


Here is a short list of the issues with the sierra conservancy.

1. It puts all private property under control of an unelected body.
2.More than 90% of the land in some counties is owned by the state or federal government. More government control will restrict economic use of private property and likely bankrupt small counties.
3. The board members are appointed, and do not answer to the public and cannot be voted out of office if they harm individual property owners.
4. The conservancy effective merges 20 counties which is unconstitutional-- only the legislature and a vote by citizens can alter county lines.
5. Merging counties and putting control over private land under an unelected board is not only unconsitutional, it mimics the failed system of the soviet union-- this comment was made by an aide to Assemblyman Leslie.
6. The board would be able to redraw parcel boundaries and change property lines taking away constitutional protections for the landowner and changing our system of government from a constitutional government to one by fiat.
7. The conservancy can buy and sell property like a real estate agent. They can buy property and give it to other conservancies, whether or not the public agrees with the policies of that conservancy or their politics-- the public has no say.
8. The conservancy will control economic use of private property through their "working lands" program.
9. The land owner only has 45 days to respond to the conservancy, if the conservancy has indicate that their property is desired for the conservancy.
10. The conservancy will set up a duplicate water quality management program wasting tax money and making the government unnavigatable by the average citizen. If you have a problem or complaint, which bureacracy do you go to? Why is another bureacracy necessary?
11. The conservancy will require $30 million out of the genreral fund just to get started. This from a state that was insovlent a few months ago and requiered a $15 billion bond from a governor who promised "no new taxes".
12. The conservancy will have its own bank account and own portfolio, making it immune from budgeting and cost reduction strategies guaranteed by our constituion.
13. The government should not be able to use taxpayer money to fund a group that will take public lands away from the public by locking them up "for future generations". This again is a techinique of the failed soviet union to give powers to cronies. In fact the whole conservancy idea reeks of cronism.


TOPICS: Extended News; US: California
KEYWORDS: ab1788; ab2600; arnold; ca; california; conservancy; environment; government; landgrab; legislation; natureconservancy; sierraconservancy; sierranevada; socialist
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-200201-209 next last
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government.
1 posted on 06/20/2004 10:15:40 PM PDT by farmfriend
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: adversarial; Alylonee; AmericanHombre; BibChr; blaze; BornOnTheFourth; budwiesest; Burlem; ...

Pinging all the lists.


2 posted on 06/20/2004 10:19:43 PM PDT by farmfriend ( In Essentials, Unity...In Non-Essentials, Liberty...In All Things, Charity.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: farmfriend

I hope Arnold takes a very close look at this and vetoes it.

I know earlier he expressed support for some Conservancy, but hopefully he recognizes the extent of the Dem bill and vetoes it.

Are there enough people opposed to it in the Legislature to sink it there?

With all due respect, where is McClintock, is he leading a charge against this?


3 posted on 06/20/2004 10:23:51 PM PDT by FairOpinion (If you are not voting for Bush, you are voting for the terrorists.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FairOpinion
I hope Arnold takes a very close look at this and vetoes it. I know earlier he expressed support for some Conservancy, but hopefully he recognizes the extent of the Dem bill and vetoes it.

Arnold did not "express support" for this, he is the one pushing it. His environmental policy was written by JRK Jr. And one of these bills was authored by a Republican.

With all due respect, where is McClintock, is he leading a charge against this?

Yes McClintock is opposed to this legislation. Rico Oller is opposing it as well.

Are there enough people opposed to it in the Legislature to sink it there?

Here is the vote total in the Assembly. I think the Rs are falling right in line with their leader.

(AYES 52. NOES 20.) (PASS)

It has already passed the Assembly and must be killed in the Senate. WE CAN NOT LET IT GET TO ARNOLD'S DESK. Do you really want to risk giving him the opportunity to sign it?

4 posted on 06/20/2004 10:42:03 PM PDT by farmfriend ( In Essentials, Unity...In Non-Essentials, Liberty...In All Things, Charity.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: FairOpinion
I hope Arnold takes a very close look at this and vetoes it.

In the words of Arnold Schwarzenegger:

The Sierra Nevada Mountain Range is one of the state's crown jewels. Yet, unlike many of California's other natural treasures, it has no conservancy. As Governor I will propose establishment of a Sierra Nevada Mountains Conservancy.

I know earlier he expressed support for some Conservancy, but hopefully he recognizes the extent of the Dem bill and vetoes it.

Unfortunately, Mr. Leslie's bill will have much the same effect:

Sorry, it's worked that way every other time it's been done. That's the way the game has been played in Santa Cruz County (where this gambit was invented) for over thirty years.

With all due respect, where is McClintock, is he leading a charge against this?

Good question. I've tried to get Tom to take this on. I've talked with John Stoos (his chief of staff) about it. John's attitude was, 'No matter what position we take on the environment, we lose.' I did my best and struck out.

5 posted on 06/20/2004 10:56:19 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (Privatizating government regulation is critical to national defense.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: farmfriend
Arnold did not "express support" for this, he is the one pushing it. His environmental policy was written by JRK Jr. And one of these bills was authored by a Republican.

From your link to JoinArnold.com:

ARNOLD'S AGENDA TO BRING CALIFORNIA BACK

Action Plan for California's Environment

As Governor I will:

Protect the Sierra Nevada. A decade of hard work by a broad variety of stakeholders resulted in the Sierra Nevada Framework, a policy document that has been widely hailed as a model of forest ecosystem resource protection. As Governor, I will direct all relevant state agencies to comply fully with the Framework and call on the federal government to honor its pledge to abide by the policies set forth in this unprecedented compact.

The Sierra Nevada Mountain Range is one of the state's crown jewels. Yet, unlike many of California's other natural treasures, it has no conservancy. As Governor I will propose establishment of a Sierra Nevada Mountains Conservancy.


6 posted on 06/20/2004 10:59:08 PM PDT by calcowgirl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: farmfriend; FairOpinion
Man oh man... that vote looks worse for Leslie's bill. I guess no one has the guts to actually stand up for Republican values... they would much rather not rock the boat and oppose RFK Jr and Arnold. Very Sad.

AB 1788 Assembly Vote - Leslie bill for Sierra Nevada Conservancy

PS... I WILL be on the phone again tomorrow, calling anyone who will listen!

7 posted on 06/20/2004 11:06:28 PM PDT by calcowgirl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: farmfriend; FairOpinion
And one of these bills was authored by a Republican.

Not only written by a Republican, but admitted by one of his assistants to be a bill that is the lesser of two evils. Less evil because the Republican's bill allows for some of the board members to be elected. The assistant also admitted, on the air, that the bill that implements a system similar to the council system in from the Soviet Union to manage it. This is a Republican folks-- whose staff admited in a radio interview they are creating a soviet system in California.
8 posted on 06/20/2004 11:09:07 PM PDT by hedgetrimmer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: calcowgirl

Leslie's bill is not Republican, see my comment on post#8.


9 posted on 06/20/2004 11:10:25 PM PDT by hedgetrimmer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Carry_Okie
It will enrich a few developers that have pull with the board (call that the corruption that it is (hence Mr. Broad's contributions),

You have to love all those Arnold contributors. Eli Broad, KB Homes, Pardee Homes, Ron Burkle, Hadi Makarechian, etc. Your list was quite informative (again). Of course, it also resembled a John Kerry fundraiser list, with Burkle and Broad present. I'm sure they just want to advance Republican values! (NOT!)

10 posted on 06/20/2004 11:15:26 PM PDT by calcowgirl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: calcowgirl

I guess no one has the guts to actually stand up for Republican values...


They're all politicians.
They have no values.


11 posted on 06/20/2004 11:17:51 PM PDT by philetus (Keep doing what you always do and you'll keep getting what you always get)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: hedgetrimmer
Leslie's bill is not Republican, see my comment on post#8.

Let me clarify what I meant.

I meant that no one has the guts to stand up for Republican values and OPPOSE BOTH bills! While many Republicans voted against Lairds bill, fewer were opposed to the Leslie bill. I want to see ALL the Republicans voting NO to both!

12 posted on 06/20/2004 11:18:55 PM PDT by calcowgirl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: calcowgirl; FairOpinion
Corporate donors give money to whomever they believe they have to pay to get what they want, usually whomever is in power. They have no party loyalty; they gave buckets of money to Gray Davis for the same reasons.

To cite donations as an indication of "confidence in Arnold" or the California economy is to misunderstand what that portends. This isn't about building wealth (or protecting the environment), it's about controlling who gets it.

13 posted on 06/20/2004 11:18:57 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (Privatizating government regulation is critical to national defense.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: Spann_Tillman

No kidding. "Mountains" indeed.


15 posted on 06/20/2004 11:33:12 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (Privatizating government regulation is critical to national defense.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Carry_Okie; farmfriend
Is there a map of the land each of these bills proposes to include in their respective conservancies?

From AB 1788:

      2)Designates the territory of the Conservancy as follows:

             a)   The Sierra Nevada Region consists of 20 designated  
               counties, from Lassen in the north to Kern in the south.   
               This region is further subdivided into five subregions,  
               each consisting of groups of adjoining counties;

             b)   The Core Sierra Nevada Region consists of an area  
               described by the 1,500-foot elevation contour on the  
               western slope of the Sierra Nevada and by named highways  
               and other natural and human features delineating the  
               northern, eastern, and southern boundaries of the core  
               region; and,

             c)   The territories of the California Tahoe and the San  
               Joaquin River Conservancies are excluded from these  
               regions.

(snip)

        1)  The region defined in AB 1788 includes large portions of the  
            Central Valley and, in Tehama, Fresno, and Kern Counties, it  
            extends entirely across the valley into the Coast Range.  By  
            contrast, the western boundary of the region defined in AB  
            2600 stops at about the 500-foot elevation contour and  
            includes only small portions of the extreme eastern edge of  
            the valley floor.  The core region defined in AB 1788, where  
            presumably the Conservancy's activities will be concentrated,  
            is significantly smaller than the region defined in AB 2600.   
            In particular, because AB 1788 uses the 1,500-foot elevation  
            contour as the western boundary of the core region, long  
            reaches of the deep canyons of the principal rivers of the  
            Sierra and many lakes and reservoirs situated below that  
            elevation are excluded from the core region.


16 posted on 06/20/2004 11:55:12 PM PDT by calcowgirl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: farmfriend

I am interested in any bill with the word conservancy in it, and any bill associated in any way with an organization called the Nature Conservancy.

The top 12 states with the greatest combined ownership of state and Federal Lands are all western states, UT, NV, NM, MT, WY, CA, ID, OR, WA, CO, AZ, and AK. My next job is to total that land and see if it exceeds the size of at least one western state, my guess is it will.

Aaaaah that didn't take long, when #8 CA has over 52% of its land mass controlled by state or Federal governments, and #1 AK has 95% of its land mass controlled, not owned by state and federal agencies, that means to me that the over one half of the western united states is off the tax rolls and out of public hands. Can't see where that is a good thing. Penalized by 50% and still able to have a balanced budget?

Taking land off of the tax rolls is a bad idea I don't care what perceived conservation value the land has. Western states already have a disproportionate amount of land off the rolls compared to other states.

Allowing any agency to control land not beholden to the "people" and subject to the voters, is bad policy. Federal control is bad enough, state control is right behind. JMHO!


17 posted on 06/21/2004 4:05:30 AM PDT by wita (truthspeaks@freerepublic.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: farmfriend

BTTT!!!!!!!


18 posted on 06/21/2004 5:34:33 AM PDT by E.G.C.
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: hedgetrimmer

Placing unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats in charge and giving them the power to dictate law is, by definition, a dictatorship. As mentioned, these people are establishing a soviet socialist system.

Because these bureaucrats are unelected, the friction they will create with people who own property will be devastating. This legislation pits two groups against each other - command and control Marxists vs people who believe in freedom. These two groups cannot co-exist. Conflict is inevitable. And because both groups are armed, we could well see a 21st century Concord Bridge incident sometime in the future.

The idea that the unelected can make law is alien to our system of democratic republicanism. Quite frankly, there is no democratic process in place to remove unaccountable bureaucrats engaged abuse, theft and cronyism. The Declaration of Independence speaks of these unelected leeches "eating out the sustenance" of property and its owners. This conservancy bill re-establishes the grievances that justified the Revoltionary war.

To stop this Marxist train and avoid what I believe is the "inevitable," people in California will need to engage in some high profile actions. Perhaps placing 100 foot banners over freeway passes alerting people to the danger. Letters and meetings will not do it anymore.

People, I believe, even those in California, find the idea of unelected bureaucrats making law repugnant. Americans as a whole still believe in electing officials so accountability is secured and insured by the people. It's time to peacefully make some headlines that even the left wing press can't ignore.


19 posted on 06/21/2004 5:59:58 AM PDT by sergeantdave (Gen. Custer wore an Arrowsmith shirt to his last property owner convention.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: farmfriend
Arnold did not "express support" for this, he is the one pushing it.

The assistant also admitted, on the air, that the bill that implements a system similar to the council system in from the Soviet Union to manage it. This is a Republican folks-- whose staff admited in a radio interview they are creating a soviet system in California.

Oh man. California is SO screwed. Shoulda voted for McClintock or the Libertarian Party.

20 posted on 06/21/2004 6:28:18 AM PDT by lowbridge ("You are an American. You are my brother. I would die for you." -Kurdish Sergeant)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: farmfriend

New World Order Rising? - Thoughts on the UN World Summit on Sustainable Development. see we told you http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/743512/posts?page=10


21 posted on 06/21/2004 6:28:19 AM PDT by take
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: hedgetrimmer
The assistant also admitted, on the air, that the bill that implements a system similar to the council system in from the Soviet Union to manage it. This is a Republican folks-- whose staff admited in a radio interview they are creating a soviet system in California.

Oh man. California is SO screwed. Shoulda voted for McClintock or the Libertarian Party.

22 posted on 06/21/2004 6:30:10 AM PDT by lowbridge ("You are an American. You are my brother. I would die for you." -Kurdish Sergeant)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: FairOpinion

Your comments are almost funny, thanks for the attempt at moderate humor.

What do you care about McClintock anyway and what he is doing anyway? a gratutitous cheap shot at best, imo.

I'm amazed you're so well-UNinformed on Arnie's Conservancy leanings., how convenient.

Say Hi to Parsky and Firestone.


23 posted on 06/21/2004 7:57:27 AM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi Mac ... Become a FR Monthly Donor ... In Memoriam Ronaldus Magnus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: sergeantdave; Bob J
To stop this Marxist train and avoid what I believe is the "inevitable," people in California will need to engage in some high profile actions. Perhaps placing 100 foot banners over freeway passes alerting people to the danger. Letters and meetings will not do it anymore.

People, I believe, even those in California, find the idea of unelected bureaucrats making law repugnant. Americans as a whole still believe in electing officials so accountability is secured and insured by the people. It's time to peacefully make some headlines that even the left wing press can't ignore.

BobJ? It's time. We can win this one on environmental grounds too.

24 posted on 06/21/2004 7:59:28 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are truly evil.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: NormsRevenge

Don't forget the appropriately named, Duf Sundheim.


25 posted on 06/21/2004 8:00:36 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are truly evil.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: farmfriend

But what will your new governor do?


26 posted on 06/21/2004 8:19:48 AM PDT by Delphinium
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FairOpinion
With all due respect, where is McClintock, is he leading a charge against this?

McClintock? he lost remember, because so many republicans were star struck.

Now you have a left leaning enviromentalist.

From what I have observed your new RINO has no use for any advise from Bush, or McClintock.
27 posted on 06/21/2004 8:25:57 AM PDT by Delphinium
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: farmfriend

Environmentalists Organizations Exposed
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b870f13654c.htm


28 posted on 06/21/2004 8:30:52 AM PDT by take
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Delphinium

Schwarzenegger ‘liberal' on environment

By Douglas Fischer
The Oakland Tribune
October 10, 2003


Governor-elect Arnold Schwarzenegger's environmental platform reads like a liberal Democrat's playbook -- promoting solar power, calling for green building codes, limiting timber harvests in the Sierra Nevada and seeking more watershed preservation.

He calls for air pollution statewide to drop 50 percent by the end of this decade, for 50 percent of the state's new homes to include a solar photovoltaic system by 2005, and for a hastened effort to protect Lake Tahoe's famously blue waters

He wants California's energy consumption to drop 20 percent within two years and to accelerate a timetable requiring 20 percent of the state's total power supplies to come from renewable resources.

He also has pledged to back the Sierra Nevada Framework, a controversial federal logging plan the Bush administration is threatening to gut.

--his environmental platform was his first detailed policy position, released Sept. 5 -- less than a month after he jumped into the race


29 posted on 06/21/2004 8:52:47 AM PDT by hedgetrimmer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: FairOpinion; Southack; Bob J; South40; Tamsey; Jim Robinson
"With all due respect, where is McClintock, is he leading a charge against this?"

With all due respect... Probably not! Now that the popular celebrity is in there... No Republican dares challenge him on anything, anymore!!! That is the problem!!!

Further, with all due respect... Last night on Channel 4 in San Francisco Willie Brown was grinning like a cat eating glue and gloatingly predicting that Arnold would have no choice but be "rolled" on all the major leftist issues this week and next... The budget and drivers licenses for illegal aliens, to name the two major issues!!!

The only hope we had/have is for ardent supporters, such as yourself, to turn up the heat on him as NO Republican elected has the courage to stand up to him and stop this!!! He will say he campaigned on this conservacancy and was elected by voters and supporters who were terrified of Bustamante and "by Jove," he's gonna sign it with a flourish and enthusiasm!!!

Please... for the love of free enterprise and both the CA and US Constitutions... DO SOMETHING!!! (I can't remember the names of all the ardent Schwarzenegger supporters or I would ping them all!)

30 posted on 06/21/2004 8:54:17 AM PDT by SierraWasp (Ronald Reagan taught us to be Classy, Considerate Conservatives, not conservatives without class!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: farmfriend

Hate to tell you. But barring unusual circumstances, these will pass, and Arnie will sign them.

If you want to get to him, have business owners call their local and state Chambers of Commerce (I'm not kidding).


31 posted on 06/21/2004 8:57:06 AM PDT by ElkGroveDan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: farmfriend
Here's another quote from the governor on the Sierra Nevada:

More than a decade of hard work by a broad variety of stakeholders resulted in the Sierra Nevada Framework, which has been widely hailed as a model of forest ecosystem resource protection. As governor, I will direct all relevant agencies to comply fully with the Framework and call on the federal government to abide by the policies.
--Arnold Schwarzenegger (R)
32 posted on 06/21/2004 8:57:10 AM PDT by hedgetrimmer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: hedgetrimmer
Schwarzenegger ‘liberal' on environment

Isn't that what most Californians want?

In Idaho most of us grow up pretty close to our enviroment, so we figure out pretty young that its not really environmentally sound to be liberal on the environment.
33 posted on 06/21/2004 9:04:33 AM PDT by Delphinium
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: ElkGroveDan

The State Grange is a member of the state chamber. Good idea.


34 posted on 06/21/2004 1:24:58 PM PDT by farmfriend ( In Essentials, Unity...In Non-Essentials, Liberty...In All Things, Charity.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: StoneColdGOP; SunStar; RichInOC; eureka!; Neanderthal; gaspar; Wheee The People; RonDog; jtill; ...
I went back to some old Arnold vs. McClintock threads and pulled names with CA flags plus a few more. You are not on a permanent ping list nor did I check to see who supported who.
35 posted on 06/21/2004 2:36:51 PM PDT by farmfriend ( In Essentials, Unity...In Non-Essentials, Liberty...In All Things, Charity.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: farmfriend

Not much I can do, given my representative's voting record & the fact I'm a marginalized 'right wing crazy'.


36 posted on 06/21/2004 2:49:29 PM PDT by skeeter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: skeeter

Send a letter to the committee. Please! And one to the governor. Tell all your friends. Ping people to this thread.


37 posted on 06/21/2004 2:55:54 PM PDT by farmfriend ( In Essentials, Unity...In Non-Essentials, Liberty...In All Things, Charity.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: farmfriend

I don't like it but Arnold did promise to do this while he was running. Do you expect him to back down on his word just because the word he gave in this instance really sucks?


38 posted on 06/21/2004 3:15:04 PM PDT by Jeff Gordon (LWS - Legislating While Stupid. Someone should make this illegal.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Jeff Gordon
Do you expect him to back down on his word just because the word he gave in this instance really sucks?

I expect the people who supported him, and those who didn't, to let him know this is not what they supported him for. I expect him to do what every politician is supposed to do, listen to his constituents. Write those letters, make those phone calls.

39 posted on 06/21/2004 3:21:29 PM PDT by farmfriend ( In Essentials, Unity...In Non-Essentials, Liberty...In All Things, Charity.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: farmfriend
Let's keep things in perspective. Would Tommy have accomplished this? I seem to recall everyone saying that this would NEVER happen.
40 posted on 06/21/2004 3:21:33 PM PDT by Jeff Gordon (LWS - Legislating While Stupid. Someone should make this illegal.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Jeff Gordon

Of what importance is that if our budget balloons with these bills, if we can't manage our own property, if our counties go backrupt?


41 posted on 06/21/2004 3:23:00 PM PDT by farmfriend ( In Essentials, Unity...In Non-Essentials, Liberty...In All Things, Charity.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: Jeff Gordon
in exchange for billions of dollars in payments to the state over the next quarter-century.

To the state, not to the locals who pay for all the police and firemen. These counties are already hurting because of the amount of federal land that is not on the tax rolls. Now he will take more off. The counties won't survive. Is this what you supported him for? Increases in government budget and bureaucracy?

42 posted on 06/21/2004 3:26:05 PM PDT by farmfriend ( In Essentials, Unity...In Non-Essentials, Liberty...In All Things, Charity.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: farmfriend
I expect him to do what every politician is supposed to do, listen to his constituents.

If he fails to keep his word on this subject what are you going to say when he fails to keep is word on a subject near and dear to you?

I would rather have a politician that has principles and stands by those principles without regard to the prevailing wind. This concept is (among others things) what made Reagan our greatest and most loved President since George Washington.

I hate the whole concept of this bill but I would be truely pissed if Arnold went back on his word. Climb all over our Republican legislators to keep this bill from getting to Arnold. Kick their butts good and hard, but leave Arnie alone.

43 posted on 06/21/2004 3:28:44 PM PDT by Jeff Gordon (LWS - Legislating While Stupid. Someone should make this illegal.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: farmfriend
To the state, not to the locals who pay for all the police and firemen.

Have you considered changing your Freeper name to "Cassandra?"

44 posted on 06/21/2004 3:30:35 PM PDT by Jeff Gordon (LWS - Legislating While Stupid. Someone should make this illegal.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Jeff Gordon
If he fails to keep his word on this subject what are you going to say when he fails to keep is word on a subject near and dear to you?

O, like the driver's licenses for illegals? He has already gone back on that. Cutting the budget? Gone back on that. Cutting the size of government? Gone back on that.

45 posted on 06/21/2004 3:31:16 PM PDT by farmfriend ( In Essentials, Unity...In Non-Essentials, Liberty...In All Things, Charity.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Jeff Gordon
Have you considered changing your Freeper name to "Cassandra?"

Excuse me? Is that a personal attack? Shame on you!

46 posted on 06/21/2004 3:32:44 PM PDT by farmfriend ( In Essentials, Unity...In Non-Essentials, Liberty...In All Things, Charity.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: Jeff Gordon
Have you considered changing your Freeper name to "Cassandra?"

Seeing as you don't think this is a problem, I assume therefore, that you think it perfectly OK to do without elected representation in favor of having decisions about how you can use your property made by distant bureaucrats.

I seriously doubt you really understand what that portends. It is the issue that drove the US to separate from Britain, you know.

47 posted on 06/21/2004 3:43:31 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are truly evil.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: Jeff Gordon; farmfriend; Carry_Okie
Do you expect him to back down on his word just because the word he gave in this instance really sucks?

As I recall Arnold also promised to bring fiscal responsibility to California.

A state that is flirting with default should not be creating yet more government programs and purchasing more land.

The new government lands after being paid for will require more funds in order to manage the new lands.

California should be selling land to pay off debt and reduce expenses.

48 posted on 06/21/2004 4:03:57 PM PDT by Pontiac (Ignorance of the law is no excuse, ignorance of your rights can be fatal.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Pontiac
A state that is flirting with default should not be creating yet more government programs and purchasing more land.

Much less destroying a revenue base.

49 posted on 06/21/2004 4:07:41 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (There are people in power who are truly evil.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: Carry_Okie; SierraWasp; calcowgirl; hedgetrimmer; forester
I posted it to the Free Republic Network board.
50 posted on 06/21/2004 4:24:26 PM PDT by farmfriend ( In Essentials, Unity...In Non-Essentials, Liberty...In All Things, Charity.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-200201-209 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson