Posted on 06/21/2004 4:51:14 PM PDT by Nachum
Edited on 07/12/2004 4:16:44 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
It isn't about the money, it's about bearing responsibility. Suppose nobody paid any school taxes. Should people who are not citizens still have the right to vote?
The basic problem is that non-citizens can vote irresponsibly and then leave and live someplace else if the results screw things up here. Added to that is the fact that this country's liberal elites have systematically acted to favor relatively unproductive immigrants over more productive ones via affirmative action in school admissions, the labor market, contracting and so on. At the federal level, there is a move afoot to award in-state college tuition to illegals living in a state while denying it to American citizens living in other states.
And by the way, current immigrants are more likely to be recipients of social welfare programs than native Americans. Not to mention that U.S. policy is distorted when people start yelling about the number of uninsured, poorly educated, and so on without making it clear that they are counting aliens. Then there's the matter of representation at the federal level. One estimate suggested that California would have fewer house seats if illegals weren't included in the Census redistricting figures.
You're a nigerian too? :-)
Since you're the second person to play liberal politics and slander instead of argue, I'll make a few links to my past posts. Call me a liberal again if you want but you'll only prove yourself even more of a fool than just one who doesn't know how to view his opponents prior posts.
Anyone can do that. Build up a posting history. How many of us do you think have built up a posting history over at DU, for example, to the point where we have thousands of posts?
Damn, you're smoooooooooth :-)
Dittos. Said it all better than I could.
Thanks. If you read much of the book, you might remember that part about how dangerous to liberty it is to add to the list of legal rights because one then requires government to act as arbiter when rights overlap and claims compete. When government acquires that role it cannot act as a disinterested party. Hence the continuous effort by bureaucracies to infer rights to where there were none.
1) Please stop spamming my Freepmail.
2) If it can't be presented publicly it probably isn't worth offering.
3) Juvenile, vitriolic nonsense doesn't gain much respect on this forum.
PS. The text quoted from reply #15 on this thread was certainly indicative of a liberal viewpoint regardless of the author's general philosophies.
Not the first time I've seen this confusion. Sort of reminds me of 43's glaring dichotomies with regard to our national security. Standing tall and hell on wheels when it comes to protecting us from Islamic extremists but apparently willing to surrender our sovereignty to Mexico to expand a political base in a national election cycle.
Even in Texas under Spain, there were so few hispanics willing to live here that Spain encouraged the "anglos" to move to Texas and gave them land grants. Mexicans weren't willing to move north in any significant number and preferred to stay closer to Mexico City.
Everyone is supposed to pay income tax on income, even if it's derived from an illegal activity (such as from trading illicit drugs, prostitution, extortion, theft, etc.).
Exceptions are available, such as on fellowships for foreign graduate students from countries with whom we have special tax treaties.
Illegal aliens can legally obtain taxpayer ID numbers (TIN) to use in place of the SSN. The TIN does not require or establish proof of legal presence. (and the TIN cannot be trusted for identification purposes, since the IRS does not verify identity)
knows the tax code well enough to file for the renters credit (and in my book anyone who can figure out a tax form is probably smart enough to be a great citizen)
Anyone who has filed a CA tax return would see the renters credit line directly on the basic tax return form. It's basically a yes or no question, and it's easier than anything else on the form. Reading comprehension on a first grade level doesn't make a "great citizen" or prove average intelligence.
other forms of taxation (sales tax,
Food is exempt from sales tax. Goods purchased outside CA, while subject to use tax, usually evade the tax.
income tax,
The personal exemption, plus deductions for each dependent, usually result in an extremely low AGI with little or no tax. Low income people also get Earned income credit on their federal tax returns.
medicare, social security (last 3 unless employer is breaking the law),
If the illegal alien is working "under the table," he or his employer probably doesn't pay these taxes. The employer is already breaking the law by hiring an illegal alien, whether or not he pays taxes.
phone taxes especially on international calls,
Low-income people do not pay phone taxes. Universal Lifeline Service exempts taxes and subsidizes phone service for low-income people by taxing regular customers. International calls with a prepaid calling card can be much cheaper than domestic calls; if there were taxes, they were not apparent.
even those who support friends and relatives back home get hit with wire transfer taxes and fees.
Wires are not taxed. If it were allowed, you can be sure the government would try to skim every transaction. :)
Invariably someone on FR will always propose taxing outgoing money orders and wires, and someone else will point out the laws forbidding such taxes. Small fees are for the banks providing the wire or money order services; the government isn't involved in those transactions.
Can you say "Section 8". Taxpayer subsidized housing. Illegals consume far more in public assistance than they contribute to the economy and tax base. They drain the public coffers for housing, food, schools, medical and increased law enforcement related to drugs, burglary, robbery and gang violence.
I had a co-worker in the Scripps Ranch area who had to put her child in private school in 1999. Why? The classrooms were filled to overflowing with illegal aliens. There were no desks left to seat the child of a taxpaying U.S. citizen. She had to pay for educating the illegals AND pay again for a private school to educate her child. If you think that is Ok, then I'm sure you'll enjoy bearing a similar burden when your children attempt to get an education in California.
Thanks.
I'm not intimate with the details Texas history beyond the collegiate basics. I did remember the irony that those Spaniards living in what is now Texas formed a coalition with other European immigrants that move down from the north at Spain's urging to resist the influence of Spain but beyond that my facts are pretty much limited to published time lines.
Oh well, if I'm going to get involved in arguments with Texans on their own turf I'd better put in a few more weeks of research.
It is wrong for them to vote, and it is wrong for noncitizens to vote.
One thing I've wondered, though: should being an illegal alien be a felony? More specifically, if an illegal alien eventually changes his status and works to become a citizen, should he be allowed to vote? After all, a felon who served his time and reforms himself into a good citizen still is prohibited from voting.
In a way, the loss of future franchise should be one of several deterrents to committing felonies. Should the loss of potential franchise be one of the deterrents to staying illegally in this country?
U.S. Constitution
Article II note:
in protecting the integrity of the process. Thus, the Court upheld the power of Congress to protect the right of all CITIZENS who are entitled to vote to lend aid and support in any legal manner to the election of any legally qualified person as a presidential elector.
Note on Fourteenth Amendment: The perspective of this 1959 opinion by Justice Douglas has now been revolutionized. ''Undoubtedly, the right of suffrage is a fundamental matter in a free and democratic society. Especially since the right to exercise the franchise in a free and unimpaired manner is preservative of other basic civil and political rights, any alleged infringement of the rights of CITIZENS to vote must be carefully and meticulously scrutinized.''
98 ''Any unjustified discrimination in determining who may participate in political affairs or in the selection of public officials undermines the legitimacy of representative government
. . . . Statutes granting the franchise to residents on a selective basis always pose the danger of denying some citizens any effective voice in the governmental affairs which substantially affect their lives. Therefore, if a challenged state statute grants the right to vote to some
bona fide residents of requisite age and CITIZENSHIP and denies the franchise to others, the Court must determine whether the exclusions are necessary to promote a compelling
state interest.
------
Fifteenth Amendment
'' Section. 1. The right of CITIZENS of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition
of servitude.
Section. 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
---
Amendment XIX
The right of CITIZENS of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by
the United States or by any state on account of sex.
Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
---
Twenty-Fourth Amendment Section 1. The right of CITIZENS of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged
by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.
I forgot about that. That costs far more than the renters' credit!
Plus, there are plans for other "affordable housing" requirements outside of Section 8.
"More and more special teachers to teach EVERY DIALECT known to man-even prehistoric man."
HA! Too true, that! "Eep opp ork ah-ah...that means I love you!"
First San Francisco, tomorrow the world.
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