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To: alogonquin
Jewish sources are pretty clearly opposed to the notion of a dead messiah.

Can you quote me which ones?

You mentioned Maimonides in your earlier post. Here is what the Rambam had to say on this subject:

If a king arises from the House of David who meditates on the Torah, occupies himself with the commandments as did his ancestor King David, observes the commandments of the Written and Oral Law, prevails upon all Israel to walk in the way of the Torah and to follow its direction, and fights the wars of God, it may be assumed that he is the Messiah.

If he does these things and is fully successful, rebuilds the Third Temple on its location, and gathers the exiled Jews, he is beyond doubt the Messiah. But if he is not fully successful, or if he is killed, he is not the Messiah. (Mishnah Torah Kings 11:4)

48 posted on 06/22/2004 9:03:25 PM PDT by malakhi
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To: malakhi

If a king arises from the House of David who meditates on the Torah, occupies himself with the commandments as did his ancestor King David, observes the commandments of the Written and Oral Law, prevails upon all Israel to walk in the way of the Torah and to follow its direction, and fights the wars of God, it may be assumed that he is the Messiah.

If he does these things and is fully successful, rebuilds the Third Temple on its location, and gathers the exiled Jews, he is beyond doubt the Messiah. But if he is not fully successful, or if he is killed, he is not the Messiah. (Mishnah Torah Kings 11:4)

This is correct. This is why the majority of believing Jews do not believe that the Lubavitcher Rebbe OB"M was the promised Messiah, even though he may have possessed all the proper qualifications.

His passing, to our great sorrow, proved that he was not chosen to be the Messiah.

Therefore, that must be some one else, at this time, who is chosen by G-d as a worthy successor/

It is even possible that the Messiah might be a Ger Tedek who has converted to Judaism, since the Bible states only that the Messiah must be a direct descendant of the House of David, if whom some say might have been captured during various wars and could therefore be a muslim or a Christian.

The only way we can be certain is if the Messiah performs the miracles predicted in the BIBLE


49 posted on 06/22/2004 9:43:31 PM PDT by Alouette (I am the MOTHER of the Learned Elder of Zion! Fear me!)
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To: malakhi
But if he is not fully successful, or if he is killed, he is not the Messiah.

The Rebbe was not "killed," so this particular statement of Maimonides is not relevant to the situation at hand.

In any event, I would like to wrap up this conversation with one point. Many Chabadniks continue to believe that the Rebbe is the Messiah, and they have sources to back them up. This isn't the religion board so I will lay off of the proofs and counterproofs as it gets rather nitpicky. Bottom line, this is their sincerely held belief, that has deep roots in Chassidic theology. Just to disabuse anyone of the notion that it is an ephemeral phenomenon that is dissipating. Chassidim have always believed in their Rebbe as Messiah. Those who claim otherwise are just not very well versed in Chassidic philosophy, particularly the talks of the Rebbe.

50 posted on 06/22/2004 9:44:36 PM PDT by alogonquin
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