Posted on 07/01/2004 12:11:25 PM PDT by areafiftyone
PARIS - Baghdad's decision to re-establish the death penalty ahead of the war crimes trial of Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) evoked a mixed reaction in Europe, recalling the split across the continent over the war that toppled the Iraqi leader.
Germany and France, two of the most vocal anti-war opponents, strongly stated their opposition — without exception — to the death penalty and called on Iraqi authorities to ensure Saddam a fair trial.
In Berlin, the government's top human rights official, Claudia Roth, criticized Baghdad's move to reinstate capital punishment, which was suspended during the U.S. occupation.
"To start out this way does not send a good signal," Roth told The Associated Press. "I think it would have been a signal of democratic strength had they not reinstated the death penalty in Iraq (news - web sites)."
France called on Iraqi justice officials to hold a trial that conforms to principles of international law, and the government reiterated its opposition to the execution of convicts.
The 25-member European Union (news - web sites) intends to let Iraq know of its opposition to the death penalty, said Emma Udwin, external relations spokeswoman for the European Commission (news - web sites).
But while capital punishment is outlawed across the continent, attitudes hardened farther east among the newer EU members, where support for the war was strong.
Latvian Foreign Ministry spokesman Rets Plesums said that whatever happens to Saddam after his trial is a matter of concern for Iraq — not the Baltic state.
"We are hoping that the new Iraqi courts will conduct the trial as fairly as possible, but I don't think our government will offer an opinion about what happens to Saddam Hussein," he said. "It's not our business."
Latvia, a recent newcomer also to NATO (news - web sites), ardently backed the U.S.-led invasion and contributed more than 100 soldiers to the coalition after fighting ended last year.
Poland, another supporter of the war, offered a similar view. Poland just decided to extend its troop deployment of 2,400 soldiers in Iraq until Dec. 31.
"Our reaction is obvious. This is a sovereign decision of an independent court and of the Iraqis themselves," said Boguslaw Majewski, spokesman for Poland's Foreign Ministry.
Roman Kuzniar, a political scientist at the Warsaw University, said the list of crimes committed by Saddam Hussein "would justify the death penalty."
Poland had capital punishment before ousting the Communist government in 1989, then eliminated it in order to join the EU.
Turkey, a Muslim nation with aspirations to join the EU one day, formally ended executions as part of its bid for membership. But many Turks still feel capital punishment is justified in some cases.
"The conscience of the people will not be satisfied if he doesn't face the death penalty," said Burhan Kuzu, a top lawmaker from Turkey's governing Justice and Development Party. "If they give the death penalty to him, this decision will not disturb me."
Let em yap.
Old Europe, once again, doesn't get it. New Europe does.
This is not surprising.
The French and Germans are mad because if Saddam isn't around, they won't be able to get kickbacks for the oil for food program anymore.....
I really wish someone, an Army, The Germans, Latvia or a boy Scout troop would make France surrender again....
Germany's economy is collapsing under the weight of its socialist welfare programs, and she thinks she can lecture about 'democratic strength? Shut the f*ck up.
Objection overruled. Now sit back down France and Germany before I have you placed in shackles and removed form this court.
Cut bait or fish.
They have to say this. If word gets to Hussein that the French and Germans are supporting his execution, Hussein will start talking about all the little deals he had going with them during the 90's and even while we were bombing Iraq.
They secretly want him dead ASAP. But they are scared of what he'll say.
In the words of a local drunken coach "f--- 'em, no really, f--- 'em"
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX!!
(I've decided to self-censor as I don't want to be suspended for saying what I'm really thinking.)
REVIEW & OUTLOOK
Europe vs. America
Germany edges out Arkansas in per capita GDP.
The growing split between the U.S. and Europe has been much in the news, mostly on foreign policy. But less well understood is the gap in economic growth and standards of living. Now comes a European report that puts the American advantage in surprisingly stark relief.
The study, "The EU vs. USA," was done by a pair of economists--Fredrik Bergstrom and Robert Gidehag--for the Swedish think tank Timbro. It found that if Europe were part of the U.S., only tiny Luxembourg could rival the richest of the 50 American states in gross domestic product per capita. Most European countries would rank below the U.S. average, as the chart below shows.
The authors admit that man doesn't live by GDP alone, and that this measure misses output in the "black" economy, which is significant in Europe's high-tax states. GDP also overlooks "the value of leisure or a good environment" or the way prosperity is spread across a society.
But a rising tide still lifts all boats, and U.S. GDP per capita was a whopping 32% higher than the EU average in 2000, and the gap hasn't closed since. It is so wide that if the U.S. economy had frozen in place at 2000 levels while Europe grew, the Continent would still require years to catch up. Ireland, which has lower tax burdens and fewer regulations than the rest of the EU, would be the first but only by 2005. Switzerland, not a member of the EU, and Britain would get there by 2010. But Germany and Spain would need until 2015, while Italy, Sweden and Portugal would have to wait until 2022.
Higher GDP per capita allows the average American to spend about $9,700 more on consumption every year than the average European. So Yanks have by far more cars, TVs, computers and other modern goods. "Most Americans have a standard of living which the majority of Europeans will never come anywhere near," the Swedish study says.
But what about equality? Well, the percentage of Americans living below the poverty line has dropped to 12% from 22% since 1959. In 1999, 25% of American households were considered "low income," meaning they had an annual income of less than $25,000. If Sweden--the very model of a modern welfare state--were judged by the same standard, about 40% of its households would be considered low-income.
In other words poverty is relative, and in the U.S. a large 45.9% of the "poor" own their homes, 72.8% have a car and almost 77% have air conditioning, which remains a luxury in most of Western Europe. The average living space for poor American households is 1,200 square feet. In Europe, the average space for all households, not just the poor, is 1,000 square feet.
So what is Europe's problem? "The expansion of the public sector into overripe welfare states in large parts of Europe is and remains the best guess as to why our continent cannot measure up to our neighbor in the west," the authors write. In 1999, average EU tax revenues were more than 40% of GDP, and in some countries above 50%, compared with less than 30% for most of the U.S.
We don't report this with any nationalist glee. The world needs a prosperous, growing Europe, and its relative economic decline is one reason for growing EU-American tension. A poorer Europe lacks the wealth to invest in defense, a fact that in turn affects the willingness of Europeans to join America in confronting global security threats. But at least all of this is a warning to U.S. politicians who want this country to go down the same welfare-state road to decline.
My bet is that is EXACTLY what the Iraqis are saying when they hear about this.
You really should have pinged 'GRRRRR' to this thread.
;^)
France? Germany? Are those places still around? Why?
Exactly.....
My 3rd Grade teacher had a saying that still holds true today-"Empty barrels make the most noise."
Ain't it sooooo true!!!
I'll bet they put more effort into thwarting his execution than they did to HELP us!
LOL You're right!
It is also clear that Chirac has had comparable gifts but, of course, the French would never even admit that.
So long as Saddam's money is still out these and being spent on his behalf, the old Eirinal thieves will back him. I am not as positive about the new Eurinals; it may just be sour grapes on their part because they didn't get any Iraqi money in years past like the French and German leaders have.
They are old world countries manifestly against freedom. Ignore them.
That should be NO SURPRISE.....
Maybe France should spend time fixing their health, I mean death care system. Between last summers heat wave and the AIDS tainted blood supply about a decade or more ago, I'd say France is still solidly behind the "death penalty".
They're obsessed with the lack of a death penalty. They think it makes them good people.
I just read in the news that Spain just lost two people to the Heat.
Capital punishment was only suspended during the occupation. Obviously it had existed under the dictator. Old Europe is hoping if he stays alive he will come back into power one day and they can re-start the oil for food program.
If in the Middle East one chops the hands off of a thief, then it is only logical one dies for killing (so many) others.
But isn't it recorded in the many documents they've found?
Conservative women are not only beautiful but smart. Liberal women are, well...........
The summer is comming.....
We need to tell Cheney that the French and Germans are Lahey and see what he has to say...that response would be appropriate here.
I would imagine. But they can always claim that the documents are fake or false etc, whereas Hussein corroborating them will be tougher to deny.
I will remember your words and call the United States of America a "she"-country as well from now on.
Send in the cats....
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1158322/posts
(don't miss post 33!)
PROOF FOR YOUR RIDICULOUS CLAIMS??
I hope that the State Dept. realizes who their
TRUE FRIENDS in Europe are !
I hope that the State Dept. realizes who their
TRUE FRIENDS in Europe are !
LOL ROTFLMAO
It's none of their business.
The audacity of these Frogs and their poodle Krauts is breathtaking.
On the other hand, they might make an exception if Bush was on trial! Seriesly.
Hey Jack, this is an internal matter for IRAQ, shut your hole.
Does their opinion even matter?
Hell, they'd have objecting to executing Hitler if we'd caught him.
The French objecting to killing. Aren't they the same people who gave us the morning after pill?
Before you remember my words, you might want to read them first. The 'she' was referring to Claudia Roth, not Germany.
Well, one thing's certain - the usual "we were scarred by war so we know what's moral" rap isn't going to fly in the face of a guy who's watched his countrymen run through industrial shredders.
The last time the Frogs lopped off a head on their infamous guillotine was 1979, not so long ago.
They are sure proud of their newfound high and mightyness.(major sarcasm on)
Old Europe should try a really big cup of "Shut the F**k Up!"
What is wrong with these people? Geez.
Oh, alright. Fu** that bit++. She´s a Green, and one of the worst, for that matter. I take back my announcement to call the US of America a "she"-country!!!
That's kind of like your neighbor objecting to what color of car you buy. If you didn't pay for it, then shut up.
Aren't they the same people who gave us the guillotine?
Good one!
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