Posted on 07/04/2004 7:39:07 AM PDT by nwrep
"Go on, go to your local Orthodox shul, tell them you weren't born Jewish nor have you had a proper conversion, and see if they let you make aliyah.
On the other hand, if Jerry Seinfeld did make ba'al teshuvah (a complete turn around), he could walk into any shul and they would be pleased to give him an honor.
Non-Jews do not get to dictate how Jews deal with 'in-house' issues."
Would not dream of dictating how anyone deals with 'in-house' or 'outhouse' issues. I just know what is written in the OLD and NEW.
You are entitled to your opinion, but this is something that is up to Jews to decide for ourselves.
Oh, and to us, it isn't the "OLD". On FR I usually refer to them as the Hebrew scriptures. But the customary term in Judaism is tanakh, which is an acronym for "Torah, Nevi'im, Ketuvim" ("Law, Prophets, Writings").
Then if you agree, based upon scripture there is a vast population that do not even know who they are.
"I have read the OLD and this is not Biblical!
You are entitled to your opinion, but this is something that is up to Jews to decide for ourselves.
Oh, and to us, it isn't the "OLD". On FR I usually refer to them as the Hebrew scriptures. But the customary term in Judaism is tanakh, which is an acronym for "Torah, Nevi'im, Ketuvim" ("Law, Prophets, Writings")."
I am familiar with the "Law, Prophets, and Writings", as well as the Gospels, the "NEW" which were written base upon the "OLD" or mostly Hebrew scriputres.
Who will the Detroit Muslims vote for now?
Sometimes some females choose the "Hubble option" and the children have different-looking visages. I've read that that's the real reasoning behind Jewish lineage being matrilineal - 'cause no one but the mother really knows who the father was.
I am quite familiar with the Christian scriptures, I just don't accept them as inspired or canonical.
We can only hope for Nader.
"I am quite familiar with the Christian scriptures, I just don't accept them as inspired or canonical."
Which is your choice.
Of course.
Funny sometimes I get so wrapped up in talking about Judiasm and Christianity and then I hear the word "Muslims" and I say "Oh Yes" and then there is them....hmmm
Noah created the world with Gentiles.
There were no Gentiles at the time of Noah, because there were no Jews. There cannot be Gentiles without Jews, right?
Basically Judaism began with Abraham (circumcision) & even more so with Jacob (Israel). Abraham became un-Gentile by virtue of being chosen to be a father of a many. 'Course Abraham became father of the Arabs, too.
All in all, was it not the Law & the Commandments that truly separated the Jews from the pagans/Gentiles?
"Biblical" has nothing to do with Jewish law. Rather the laws are extra-biblical. I would wager that the "Jewish if your mother was Jewish" understanding is not in the Torah, but is in the Talmud.
The two documents are not the same. The Torah is closer to the Christian Bible, but the Talmud is Jewish tradition & law, correct?
"The two documents are not the same. The Torah is closer to the Christian Bible, but the Talmud is Jewish tradition & law, correct?"
Not a student of the "Talmud", cannot speak to its contents, however, as a student of the OLD & NEW (I choose to use that word) I am familar with what is written.
Unfortunately too many Christians know little, maybe a couple of verses here and there from the OLD. The teachers and preachers and priest have not given them that foundation.
Nothing new about it, was written it would be that way.
Which son carried forward the promises made to Abraham? Ishmail the son of Hagar, or Isaac the son of Sarah?
"Jewish law" as a whole is grounded in the scriptural commandments, the law of the Torah.
The Torah is closer to the Christian Bible
"The Torah", most precisely understood, is the first five books of the Bible: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.
but the Talmud is Jewish tradition & law, correct?
The Talmud provides, among other things, the traditional interpretation of the "law" (commandments) of scripture. Consider it like this: the Torah is comparable to the statutes promulgated by your state legislature, and signed into law by the governor. But the interpretation of the statutes is the purview of the courts. As statutes are applyed in the judicial system, case law is established which becomes precedent for future judicial decisions. The Talmud is akin to "common law" or "case law" -- it is the interpretation of the law of the Torah, and the application of the law to new situations.
Depends on whether one is Jewish, or Arab, garding which son carried the promises. ;) Ishmael had his own set of promises from God, given to his mother, Hagar. None of those promises included the sending of a Redeemer through Ishmael's line.
Just, if a one is speaking to a Jewish person regarding his or her heritage, bringing the New Testament into the argument is foolish. They don't believe the NT. Doesn't matter what YOU believe. Better to stick to the Law, the Prophets & the Writings.
I see what your saying..I always have heard NOAH was referred as a Richteous Gentile. I also understand that the Covenant with Abraham and the commandments given to the JEWS at Mt Siani are what today many JEWS feel are the way to GOD and I do respect that. The TALMUD to me from what I know is not GOD inspired as maybe some of the religious laws of some Christian denominations, rather they were inspired by Man's interpetation...
But I guess it comes down to this for me, when it's all said and done, first and formost ALL human beings have fallen short from the Glory of GOD there is not one human works that we can do that is worthy of his glory.
And as I said before a lving GOD has given us a way to reconcile with him through Jesus Christ and his forgiveness of human SIN. I understand many Jews reject this notion, but I believe as time goes on it will be clear to the Jewish people that Jesus is there Messiah, and that does not take away from there sincerity and the correct way GOD has instructed them to worship from the original Covenant GOD has made with the Jewish people...
As I posted with Malakhi yesterday, the New Testament is not a Book written by Arabs or Buddhists it was written by the Jewish people, some might of rejected the writings but many did not. Look at the travels Paul, Barnabas and Peter made in spreading the GOSPELS...They FIRST went to the largest cities through-out the Midddle East (ANTIOCH) with Jewish populations. In fact after Jesus's resurrection the APOSTLES still did not have a clear idea how to speak with the Gentiles until the HOLY Spirit came upon them.
The great divide with the early Jewish Christians and the bringing of the Gentiles into the church was that many JEWS still thought it was necessary for the Gentile Christians to adhere to the law of Moses, this was long before the Greeks and Romans put there spin on the Church.
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