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Ancient European Remains Discovered In Qinghai (China)
Xinhuanet/China View ^ | 7-6-2004

Posted on 07/06/2004 11:02:03 AM PDT by blam

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To: blam

Would be fascinating to trace everybody back to at least 10000 BC. There is probably enough evidence scattered everywhere if we just keep digging. The Sumerians came from northern Europe.


101 posted on 07/07/2004 8:08:10 PM PDT by RightWhale (Withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty and establish property rights)
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To: RightWhale
"Would be fascinating to trace everybody back to at least 10000 BC. There is probably enough evidence scattered everywhere if we just keep digging.

Yup, that would be great. We probably already have enough samples (worldwide) to do an expanded DNA analysis that could probably place everyone at a location 10k years ago.

The Sumerians came from northern Europe."

How do you know that?

102 posted on 07/07/2004 8:33:26 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

I've not read the book indepth, -- just glanced through it at the library, but what I do note is that it's not easy to define a Celtic physiology as distinct from, say, a Germanic or other Indo-European/Aryan group. Hence, you'd have to base it on linguistics and the evidence does not seem to define that Tocharian was any more related to Celtic than to Iranic-Indic etc.


103 posted on 07/07/2004 11:43:23 PM PDT by Cronos (W2K4)
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To: blam
make reasonable arguments that the first Sumerians were refugees from Sundaland, in SE Asia, that went underwater about 8,000 years ago.

I've seen your earlier post. That idea does seem like a flight of fancy considering the lack of evidence, but it can't be discounted. however, the Sumerians would seem to still be Caucasoid in race
104 posted on 07/07/2004 11:45:52 PM PDT by Cronos (W2K4)
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To: RightWhale
The Sumerians came from northern Europe.

That's one of the funniest things I've heard. It is generally recognised that peoples, cultures and civilisation spread TO the western part of Eurasia not FROM.
105 posted on 07/07/2004 11:47:22 PM PDT by Cronos (W2K4)
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To: Cronos
"Hence, you'd have to base it on linguistics and the evidence does not seem to define that Tocharian was any more related to Celtic than to Iranic-Indic etc."

Victor H Mair (Chinese Language And Literature) makes the Tocharian - Celtic connection...he seems to have the credentials to do so. I'll go with his 'reading' on this subject.

"Throughout the 1990s, Professor Mair organized an interdisciplinary research project on the Bronze Age and Iron Age mummies of Eastern Central Asia. Among other results of his efforts during this period were three documentaries for television (Scientific American, NOVA, and Discovery channel), a major international conference, numerous articles, and The Tarim Mummies: Ancient China and the Mystery of the Earliest Peoples from the West (Thames and Hudson, 2000)."

106 posted on 07/08/2004 7:56:40 AM PDT by blam
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To: Cronos
"That idea does seem like a flight of fancy considering the lack of evidence, but it can't be discounted. however, the Sumerians would seem to still be Caucasoid in race."

Here's what Oppenheimer says on page 472 of his book.

"The Micronesians go so far as to say that the original inhabitants of the western homeland, the 'Men Of Mantang', had red hair and blue eyes and may also have gone to Samoa as well."

He goes on to say:

"Before I am accused of suggesting that a white super-race sailed the Pacific 4,000 years ago, I should say that I think that all these politically incorrect and recurrent myths about colour and technology differences are all still consistent with an Austronesian/Papuan or Asian/Melinesian dichotomy...."

Remember to that the Jomon and Ainu are in the region.
The oldest Jomon skeleton ever found in Japan is 13,000 years old.

107 posted on 07/08/2004 8:07:05 AM PDT by blam
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To: Cronos; RightWhale
Let me throw a 'hare-brained' idea of mine out for you to chew on. I've noticed that the experts have had difficulty explaining how the red-headed mummies made their way from central Europe (4,000-5,000 miles away) to the Tarim Basin...and, according to Mair, left little to no archaeological traces along the way.

Let's suppose that they have it backwards.

What if the original people with the red-hair, blue eyed genes originated in Sundaland and after their home-land submerged (Sundaland was about the size of present day India), made their way up the river valleys of Asia, across the steppes/mountains and into Europe 8,000 years or so ago. If the dispersal point was SE Asia, some would have gone searching for a new home land by sea and some by land...and, they would have gone in all directions perhaps explaining the persistant stories of red-headed people everywhere.

108 posted on 07/08/2004 8:41:39 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam

Note: I'm not discounting your ideas. They hold as much water as mine until proved -- that's how we learn. I repeat -- conversing with you is one of the best things on this forum, I learn so much!


109 posted on 07/08/2004 9:15:59 AM PDT by Cronos (W2K4)
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To: Cronos

Yes, it is amusing. The original inhabitants noted that the ones who brought civilization arrived from the sea. From where? They gestured vaguely toward the west and said 'Merica.


110 posted on 07/08/2004 9:21:11 AM PDT by RightWhale (Withdraw from the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty and establish property rights)
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To: Cronos; blam
Cronos,
I think I'm gonna throw up. What a disgusting display of kissing up! What really galls me about your over the top brown nosing of Blam is that you're correct and beat me to saying it. ;o)

Thanks Blam.

111 posted on 07/08/2004 10:56:01 AM PDT by ASA Vet (tourette's syndrome is just a $&#$*!% excuse for bad *%$#**& language skills.)
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To: blam
the experts have had difficulty explaining how the red-headed mummies made
their way from central Europe (4,000-5,000 miles away) to the Tarim Basin...
and, according to Mair, left little to no archaeological traces along the way.


112 posted on 07/08/2004 11:01:42 AM PDT by ASA Vet (tourette's syndrome is just a $&#$*!% excuse for bad *%$#**& language skills.)
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To: madison10

Given that the tribes of Israel partly scattered into india, burma and china, yeah. The charge of Christ to the original Apostles was to minister to the house of Israel. Only Paul had a primary office ministering to the Gentiles.

Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Given the charge and the Archeology bearing it out. One has to say, yeah, the Apostles made it there.


113 posted on 07/08/2004 11:09:51 AM PDT by Havoc (.)
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To: ASA Vet; Cronos
Thanks guys.

We're about due for a major theory changing discovery or a whole new theory of human migrations.

114 posted on 07/08/2004 11:13:31 AM PDT by blam
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To: AppyPappy
Uhhh, how do they know that the skeletons are westerners?

Because they had iPods and were wearing Nikes.

115 posted on 07/08/2004 11:15:33 AM PDT by Lazamataz ("Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown" -- harpseal)
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To: Cronos
In my reading about the ancient Iranians, I came across the below paragraph in the book, The Tarim Mummies, the origians of the Tocharians is being discussed. Here's from page 281 of that book:

"As we have just mentioned, the people who emerge as the Tocharians in western sources are often equated with a branch of the Yuezhi of Chinese sources who were driven from the Gansu borderlands by the Xiongnu, then further west by the Wusun, arriving at the Oxus, and going on to conquesr Bactria and establish the Kushan empire. Narain argues that once one accepts the equation Tocharian = Yuezhi, then one is forced to follow both the Chinese historical sources (which for him would propel the Yuezhi back to at least the 7th century BC) and the geographical reference of their first cited historical location (Gansu) to the conclusion that they have lived there 'from time immemorial'. Narain infers that they had been there at least since the Qijia culture of c.200BC and probably even earlier in the Yangshao of the Neolothic. This would render the Tocharians as virtually native to Gansu (and earlier than the putative spread of the Neolithic to Xinjiang) and Narain goes so far as to argue that the Indo-Europeans themselves originally dispersed from this area westwards. Seldom has a tail so small wagged a dog so large."

I'm also reminded that David Chatters in his book Ancient Encounters (About Kennewick Man), speculated that Kennewick Man was on a branch of humanity that produced both todays Europeans and Asians.

116 posted on 07/12/2004 8:02:50 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam

I wonder if these Tocharians went to Korea. Korea used to be really large, it spanned all the way to Manchuria, thousands of years ago. Actually, Manchuria was Korea. I notice Koreans have red hair. I know Arabs lived in Korea and married Koreans somewhere between 12th to 14th century.


117 posted on 11/21/2004 6:51:42 PM PST by Ptarmigan (Proud rabbit hater and killer)
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To: Varda

See my post #116.


118 posted on 11/21/2004 9:36:17 PM PST by blam
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Just updating the GGG information, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
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119 posted on 12/27/2005 9:01:49 PM PST by SunkenCiv ("In silence, and at night, the Conscience feels that life should soar to nobler ends than Power.")
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To: blam

most interesting.


120 posted on 12/27/2005 9:08:33 PM PST by Ciexyz (Let us always remember, the Lord is in control.)
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To: Ciexyz
"most interesting."

Glad you enjoyed it. Albeit....You're a little late to the party.

121 posted on 12/27/2005 9:43:23 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
You're a little late to the party.

Ahem, I ain't never late to no party, if the party's still goin' on!

Actually, I responded seven minutes after Sunken Civ pinged me.

122 posted on 12/28/2005 10:50:04 AM PST by Ciexyz (Let us always remember, the Lord is in control.)
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To: blam
Archeologists confirmed that the human skeletons discovered this May in northwest China's Qinghai Province belonged to three Europeans who lived in China over 1,900 years ago.

Not so surprising -- there were emissaries sent between the Han and Roman Empires.
123 posted on 12/30/2005 3:02:55 AM PST by Cronos (Never forget 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia!)
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To: RightWhale

?You talking about Nestorians, correct? Well, they would have come a bit later -- around 300 AD. Many of Genghis Khan's army were Nestorian Christians and the Persian Church was Nestorian.


124 posted on 12/30/2005 3:05:23 AM PST by Cronos (Never forget 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia!)
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To: blam
Also, I've read much speculation that the Mandans may be the remnants of the Prince Madoc (Welsh) group that came to the US in 1170AD...Lately I've read 540AD.

That's been proven to be a hoax, blam. It was no more than a lame British attempt to "prove" that they had the rights to North America.
125 posted on 12/30/2005 3:06:16 AM PST by Cronos (Never forget 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia!)
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To: Cronos
"That's been proven to be a hoax, blam. It was no more than a lame British attempt to "prove" that they had the rights to North America."

Could be. I certainlly have my suspicions too.

Now, I read somewhere that when Lewis & Clark reported back to Thomas Jefferson about their travels out west that they told him of blue-eyed Indian that they'd encountered. Jefferson said, "There'll be no more talk of blue-eyed Indians." His motivation were that it could open the door for other European countries to make a claim on western parts of North America.

126 posted on 12/30/2005 8:31:40 AM PST by blam
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To: sphinx

> Are there any records of Chinese travellers in Rome or
> elsewhere in the Mediterranean during ancient times?
> I would be surprised if there are not, but I don't know the field.

You might find this a good starting point:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_embassies_to_China


127 posted on 06/05/2006 4:40:54 PM PDT by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (Give Them Liberty Or Give Them Death! - IT'S ISLAM, STUPID! - Islam Delenda Est! - Rumble thee forth)
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To: AppyPappy

They were buried in their Stetsons.


128 posted on 09/08/2007 6:15:59 PM PDT by ThanhPhero (di hanh huong den La Vang)
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This is a nice intro to India; I've got to the midpoint (it's due back at the library in a couple of days, or maybe it's tomorrow) where the Yueh-chi / Tocharians / Kushans are discussed for a while.
...Kapisa, the summer capital of the Kushans. Here, in 1937, French archaeologists found the greatest single hoard of artistic treasures ever discoverd in Afghanistan: a wonderfully eclectic mixture of Silk Route artefacts... including a unique glass painting of one of the Wonders of the World, the Pharos of Alexandria. [p 119]
India India
Michael Wood

BBC DVD


129 posted on 03/27/2008 11:02:44 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/______________________Profile updated Saturday, March 1, 2008)
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Just updating the GGG info, not sending a general distribution.

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130 posted on 03/27/2008 11:06:29 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/______________________Profile updated Saturday, March 1, 2008)
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To: blam

They could be Romans.

Or they could be Macedonians from Alexander the Great’s army.


131 posted on 03/27/2008 11:09:44 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: <1/1,000,000th%
See post #3.

I'm thinking those folks.

132 posted on 03/27/2008 2:03:30 PM PDT by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: blam

I was thinking the Tocharians were too early but maybe not.

When the Chinese get around to some DNA testing we’ll see what they find.


133 posted on 03/27/2008 2:06:51 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: blam

Ping for later


134 posted on 06/22/2012 3:19:01 PM PDT by Chainmail
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