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Study: Dinosaurs Died Within Hours After Asteroid Hit
University of Colorado News Center ^ | May 24, 2004

Posted on 07/08/2004 12:29:19 AM PDT by LibWhacker

According to new research led by a University of Colorado at Boulder geophysicist, a giant asteroid that hit the coast of Mexico 65 million years ago probably incinerated all the large dinosaurs that were alive at the time in only a few hours, and only those organisms already sheltered in burrows or in water were left alive.

The six-mile-in-diameter asteroid is thought to have hit Chicxulub in the Yucatan, striking with the energy of 100 million megatons of TNT, said chief author and Researcher Doug Robertson of the department of geological sciences and the Cooperative Institute for Research in Environmental Sciences. The "heat pulse" caused by re-entering ejected matter would have reached around the globe, igniting fires and burning up all terrestrial organisms not sheltered in burrows or in water, he said.

A paper on the subject was published by Robertson in the May-June issue of the Bulletin of the Geological Society of America. Co-authors include CU-Boulder Professor Owen Toon, University of Wyoming Professors Malcolm McKenna and Jason Lillegraven and California Academy of Sciences Researcher Sylvia Hope.

"The kinetic energy of the ejected matter would have dissipated as heat in the upper atmosphere during re-entry, enough heat to make the normally blue sky turn red-hot for hours," said Robertson. Scientists have speculated for more than a decade that the entire surface of the Earth below would have been baked by the equivalent of a global oven set on broil.

The evidence of terrestrial ruin is compelling, said Robertson, noting that tiny spheres of melted rock are found in the Cretaceous-Tertiary, or KT, boundary around the globe. The spheres in the clay are remnants of the rocky masses that were vaporized and ejected into sub-orbital trajectories by the impact.

A nearly worldwide clay layer laced with soot and extra-terrestrial iridium also records the impact and global firestorm that followed the impact.

The spheres, the heat pulse and the soot all have been known for some time, but their implications for survival of organisms on land have not been explained well, said Robertson. Many scientists have been curious about how any animal species such as primitive birds, mammals and amphibians managed to survive the global disaster that killed off all the existing dinosaurs.

Robertson and colleagues have provided a new hypothesis for the differential pattern of survival among land vertebrates at the end of the Cretaceous. They have focused on the question of which groups of vertebrates were likely to have been sheltered underground or underwater at the time of the impact.

Their answer closely matches the observed patterns of survival. Pterosaurs and non-avian dinosaurs had no obvious adaptations for burrowing or swimming and became extinct. In contrast, the vertebrates that could burrow in holes or shelter in water -- mammals, birds, crocodilians, snakes, lizards, turtles and amphibians -- for the most part survived.

Terrestrial vertebrates that survived also were exposed to the secondary effects of a radically altered, inhospitable environment. "Future studies of early Paleocene events on land may be illuminated by this new view of the KT catastrophe," said Robertson.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: archaeology; asteroid; catastrophism; crevolist; dinosaurs; economic; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; theory
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To: Ichneumon
You miss the point entirely:

Einstein was Einstein because he entertained the possibility that Velikovsky was right. I have no doubt that Velikovsky was a smarter man than you are, or me for that matter. I consider "dolts" those who blindly follow the pack and never ask questions...have you ever asked yourself (i know, its hard in your case) *WHY* the most famous scientist in 1953 would even give Velikovsky the time of day? i'll tell you why -- because Velikovsky had the same kind of enquiring mind that Einstein did, and Einstein respected that...

One needs to be very, very careful with how one approaches "science", since scientists are just human beings -- with science, there is a very strong tendancy for anal retentive personalities to engage in the field -- for many, science is admired as a father/authority substitute, the same tendency many had towards supported Adolf Hitler or the tendency to support ANY person or institute in power.

101 posted on 07/09/2004 4:49:24 AM PDT by chilepepper (The map is not the territory -- Alfred Korzybski)
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To: chilepepper
because Velikovsky had the same kind of enquiring mind that Einstein did, and Einstein respected that...

Velikovsky was more of a Weekly World News kind of guy.

102 posted on 07/09/2004 4:52:52 AM PDT by js1138 (In a minute there is time, for decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse. J Forbes Kerry)
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To: LibWhacker

Interesting that there are no apparent signs of this.. must be a faith thing..


103 posted on 07/09/2004 5:01:21 AM PDT by Havoc (.)
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To: chilepepper
*WHY* the most famous scientist in 1953 would even give Velikovsky the time of day?

I don't suppose your vast and Enquiring® mind could entertain the possibility that Einstein would be concerned about a popular best seller going unchallenged. You could, of course, admit that you were wrong about Einstein and velikovsky, but that would require a modicum of honesty.

104 posted on 07/09/2004 5:06:54 AM PDT by js1138 (In a minute there is time, for decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse. J Forbes Kerry)
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To: js1138
That is not the reason Einstein read the book. Velikovsky *asked* him to read it and give his opinion -- Einstein and Velikovsky corresponded several times.

Velikovsky was a very learned man willing to look at things in a new light, just as did Einstein, who was not the anal retentive type at all, unlike some other defenders of science...

105 posted on 07/09/2004 5:31:03 AM PDT by chilepepper (The map is not the territory -- Alfred Korzybski)
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To: js1138
what the most famous scientist in 1953 thought of Velikovsky's book, rather than some anal retentive rant...

July 8, 1946
> Dr. Immanuel Velikovsky
> 526 West 113 Str.
> New York City
> Dear Mr. Velikovsky:
>
> I have read the whole book about the planet Venus.
> There is much of interest in the book which proves that
> in fact catastrophes have taken place which must be
> attributed to extraterrestrial causes. However it
is
> evident to every sensible physicist that these catast-
> rophes can have nothing to do with the planet Venus and
> that also the direction of the inclination of the
> terrestrial axis towards the ecliptic could not have under-
> gone a considerable change without the total destruction
> of the earth's entire crust. It were best in my opinion
> if you would in this way revise your books, which contain
> truly valuable material
. If you cannot decide on this,
> then what is valuable in your deliberations will become
> ineffective, and it would be difficult finding a sensible
> publisher who would take the risk of such a heavy setback
> upon himself.
> I tell you this in writing and return to you your manu-
> script, since I will not be free on the considered days.
>
> With friendly greetings, also to your daughter,
> Your
>
Albert Einstein

106 posted on 07/09/2004 5:38:41 AM PDT by chilepepper (The map is not the territory -- Alfred Korzybski)
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To: Rebelbase

Dah


107 posted on 07/09/2004 7:19:00 AM PDT by ASA Vet (tourette's syndrome is just a $&#$*!% excuse for bad *%$#**& language skills.)
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To: chilepepper

You mistake politeness for credulity. Einstein's letter is a bolw-off, rejecting everything about Velikovsky except for the obvious fact that there have been catastrophes in earth's history. Velikovsky was wrong about the dates, causes and scopes of the catastrophes, but then nobody's perfect.


108 posted on 07/09/2004 7:45:18 AM PDT by js1138 (In a minute there is time, for decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse. J Forbes Kerry)
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To: js1138
You are wrong again.

Velikovsky was one of the first to propose earth changes due to catastrophic astronomical events, something we are all to well aware of now given the increased awareness of ELE events and the dangers inherent to asteroid strikes...and AE gives him credit for that right up front.

The truth of the matter is that Einstein considered Velikovsky a bit of a soul mate:


>Einstein often used the term "moshogoim" in reference to himself AND
>Velikovsky, the intent being not so much the literal one as "outsiders,
>wildmen" and so forth.

109 posted on 07/09/2004 8:00:47 AM PDT by chilepepper (The map is not the territory -- Alfred Korzybski)
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To: chilepepper
Are you saying that Velikovsky deserves credit for dscovering this...

As I said, Velikovsky was right about everything except the dates, causes and sizes of his catastrophes. Perhaps he deserves some credit for forcing attention to catastrophes, but he deserves zero credit for scientific analysis.

And you persist in refusing to admit you were rong about the book introduction.

110 posted on 07/09/2004 8:09:33 AM PDT by js1138 (In a minute there is time, for decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse. J Forbes Kerry)
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To: js1138
You are wrong again

Check your facts first. I never claimed anything about a book introduction...

111 posted on 07/09/2004 8:14:37 AM PDT by chilepepper (The map is not the territory -- Alfred Korzybski)
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To: Michael121
And as to the big extinction, there is one "respected archeologist, he looks like a hippie wears a hat all the time, (name escapes me)

Bakker?

112 posted on 07/09/2004 8:16:47 AM PDT by null and void (Flush twice. It's a long way to Washington...)
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To: LibWhacker
The six-mile-in-diameter asteroid is thought to have hit Chicxulub in the Yucatan, striking...

Science and engineering deals with facts and conclusions based on clear thinking and trained observations, including last, but not least, with the use of clear and unambiguous language.

The asteroid could not have hit Chicxulub, since that is the name given to the crater resulting from the impact.
What kind of scientific morons are they cranking out these days?

113 posted on 07/09/2004 8:22:22 AM PDT by Publius6961 (I don't do diplomacy either.)
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To: ZULU
What about Mosasaurs and Ichthyosaurs?

High metabolisms. Needed to breathe frequently, therefore needed to surface, therefore needed to transit the boiling hot surface to get to the air, and were unable to shelter in deeper water.

Tunnel dwellers are accustomed to lower oxygen and higher carbon dioxide in poorly ventilated burrows...

114 posted on 07/09/2004 8:25:04 AM PDT by null and void (Why is OUR oil under THEIR sand???)
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To: chilepepper
Einstein was more of a friend than a fan.

Letter from Einstein to Velikovsky:

July 8, 1946
Dr. Immanuel Velikovsky
526 West 113 Str.
New York City
Dear Mr. Velikovsky:

I have read the whole book about the planet Venus. There is much of interest in the book which proves that in fact catastrophes have taken place which must be attributed to extraterrestrial causes. However it is evident to every sensible physicist that these catastrophes can have nothing to do with the planet Venus and that also the direction of the inclination of the terrestrial axis towards the ecliptic could not have undergone a considerable change without the total destruction of the earth's entire crust. It were best in my opinion if you would in this way revise your books, which contain truly valuable material. If you cannot decide on this, then what is valuable in your deliberations will become ineffective, and it would be difficult finding a sensible publisher who would take the risk of such a heavy setback upon himself.

I tell you this in writing and return to you your manuscript, since I will not be free on the considered days.

With friendly greetings, also to your daughter,
Your
Albert Einstein

115 posted on 07/09/2004 8:27:11 AM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: chilepepper
apologize. It was someone else...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1167401/posts?page=90#90
116 posted on 07/09/2004 8:27:32 AM PDT by js1138 (In a minute there is time, for decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse. J Forbes Kerry)
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To: js1138

Should be "I apologise". My wireless keyboard needed new batteries. It has been skipping characters.


117 posted on 07/09/2004 8:30:54 AM PDT by js1138 (In a minute there is time, for decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse. J Forbes Kerry)
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To: LibWhacker; FairOpinion; blam
Happened across this thread that may be of interest.

FGS

118 posted on 07/09/2004 8:31:49 AM PDT by ForGod'sSake (ABCNNBCBS: An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly.)
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To: capitan_refugio
I do not believe the micropaleo records supports a "sudden" extinction.

You are wrong. See T. Rex and the Crater of Doom. The clearest evidence of an abrupt extinction is the abrupt and total change in the foramintifera.

119 posted on 07/09/2004 8:31:55 AM PDT by null and void (Why is OUR oil under THEIR sand???)
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To: freebilly

Like that's never happened to any of us.

Glad you can laugh about if after a bit of sleep...


120 posted on 07/09/2004 8:35:03 AM PDT by null and void (Why is OUR oil under THEIR sand???)
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To: js1138
OK.

understand that i have tried to be consistent in all this. i am not a velikovsky believer, it is just that i think he deserves a bit more credit for trying something new...

121 posted on 07/09/2004 8:38:03 AM PDT by chilepepper (The map is not the territory -- Alfred Korzybski)
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To: LibWhacker

Well, I just hope that if we gen another of these crashes that it happens at night. It's cooler then.


122 posted on 07/09/2004 8:40:36 AM PDT by zook
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To: LibWhacker
"Scientists have speculated"
123 posted on 07/09/2004 8:47:50 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: null and void

That sounds like a good explanation. Whether or not they were warm-blooded is an interesting question. I'm sure the therapods were, based on what I have read. Leatherback Turtles have been shown to sxhibit some degree of warm-bloodedness.


124 posted on 07/09/2004 8:53:26 AM PDT by ZULU
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To: Junior
I think you misread this line. The scientists have been speculating for more than a decade.

Ooops, My bad. I guess I'm used to hearing crazy stuff coming from the Dino-Asteroid people I didn't even question it when I read it wrong.

Some owls burrow. Other birds live in caves.

Owls weren't around until the Miocene

But what about Parrots?

Also if the all terriestial birds were wiped out leaving just the cave dwelling birds to later evolve and fill the non-cave niches of modern birds why didn't more bats also diversify into the non-cave niches since they were "Open"?

125 posted on 07/09/2004 9:01:25 AM PDT by qam1 (Tommy Thompson is a Fat-tubby, Fascist)
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To: qam1
Kewl! Good post. Very thought provoking

Did ungulate mammals exist 65 myo? or did they evolve later?

Some birds do burrow, or take over existing burrows.

Plus even if Alligators and Frogs were underwater during the impact wouldn't they die when they came up to breath?

Many species of frog burrow into the mud and estivate during the summer or drought.

No particular reason 'gator eggs wouldn't survive, as you contend some dino eggs did. (KEWL!)

Just a guess - Bottom layer large/or low ejection angle (initial impact) spherules that settled out early. Mid layer turbite marls for the seiches of water sloshing in the Gulf of Mexico basin. Top layer lighter/high ejection angle (carbonate decomposition driven) ejecta.

I see most of the data supporting an impact and impact triggered vulcanism as consistent with the pattern of victims and survivors. I don't see anything that doesn't fit the hypothesis.

We are clearly operating off subtly different data sets, and have reached differing conclusions. It will be fascinating to see where and how we converge on a consistent understanding.

Once again, excellent post. This is why I love FR!

126 posted on 07/09/2004 9:03:31 AM PDT by null and void (Why is OUR oil under THEIR sand???)
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To: VadeRetro
Everything non-burrowing and non-swimming died 65 million years ago? (At least, until such niches were re-occupied by the burrowing/swimming survivors.) That certainly is a potentially falsifiable hypothesis!

Butterflies don't burrow or swim

127 posted on 07/09/2004 9:04:10 AM PDT by qam1 (Tommy Thompson is a Fat-tubby, Fascist)
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To: qam1
Butterflies don't burrow or swim

How about caterpillers?
How about cocoons? Wouldn't they protect some larva from the effects?

128 posted on 07/09/2004 9:20:26 AM PDT by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: Drammach
How about caterpillers?

They don't swim or burrow either, Plus they have the most voracious appetites on the planet and in a devastated world where all plant life is gone they would have starved

How about cocoons? Wouldn't they protect some larva from the effects?

Butterflies don't make cocoons (Moths and skippers do) they basically just get hard and become chrysalides so they would be very exposed to the heat/firestorm, Plus even if they did, silk is not exactly fire and heat proof so they would still be toast.

129 posted on 07/09/2004 10:21:23 AM PDT by qam1 (Tommy Thompson is a Fat-tubby, Fascist)
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To: qam1
Looks like a problem to me.
130 posted on 07/09/2004 10:59:40 AM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: qam1

It is a lot easier for small animals (birds, mammals, lizards, etc.) to find themselves in sheltered and protected areas during firestorms and other such than it would be for multi-tonne critters. I can see birds surviving just by being in fortuitous and unexposed areas.


131 posted on 07/09/2004 11:27:49 AM PDT by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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To: VadeRetro; qam1
It's possible that there were pockets of protected vegetation. Deep valleys in high rainfall areas, partly shielded by heavy cloud cover. The reduced heating combined with saturated ground, and wet vegetation might have done the trick.

Land animals weighing more a couple Kg were wiped out. Small critters tended to survive, they were more numerous, and widely dispersed. They also tend to be hibernators, that helped. They need less food, etc.

The classic bigger they are, the harder they fall.

On land roots and seeds tend to survive fire and soil tends to buffer acids so vegetation could re-establish fairly quickly.

In the ocean, low pH precipitation, 'nuclear winter' darkness and surface heat kicked the legs out from under the food chain. Plankton doesn't go to seed, or have roots...

132 posted on 07/09/2004 11:32:50 AM PDT by null and void (Why is OUR oil under THEIR sand???)
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To: freebilly
Without reading the article....could someone answer my question.

Did they blame Bush for this?

133 posted on 07/09/2004 11:34:48 AM PDT by Osage Orange (You don't live longer in the city, it just seems that way.)
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To: Junior
It is a lot easier for small animals (birds, mammals, lizards, etc.) to find themselves in sheltered and protected areas during firestorms and other such than it would be for multi-tonne critters. I can see birds surviving just by being in fortuitous and unexposed areas.

Not all Dinos were giants so what about the small Dinosaurs? Couldn't they have hidden also? Many of the mammals that survived them were bigger

134 posted on 07/09/2004 12:16:14 PM PDT by qam1 (Tommy Thompson is a Fat-tubby, Fascist)
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To: qam1

Small dinosaurs did survive -- in the form of birds.


135 posted on 07/09/2004 12:25:20 PM PDT by Junior (FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC)
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To: Free Trapper
Must have been a lot of rain after that much evaporation.

Think it rained for 40 days and 40 nights in the middle east after that event?

136 posted on 07/09/2004 12:28:17 PM PDT by kjam22
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To: kjam22

Prolly. And in keeping with Jewish tradition, it was an acid rain that burned the unjust...


137 posted on 07/09/2004 1:02:03 PM PDT by null and void (Why is OUR oil under THEIR sand???)
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To: null and void; capitan_refugio
I do not believe the micropaleo records supports a "sudden" extinction.

You are wrong. See T. Rex and the Crater of Doom. The clearest evidence of an abrupt extinction is the abrupt and total change in the foramintifera.

Actually the clearest evidence against an abrupt extinction is the little change in plankton

a)   Diatoms. The K-T event did not much affect the diatoms. Harwood (1988), based on studies from Seymour Island, eastern Antarctic Peninsula, the first to record siliceous microfossil assemblages across a K-T boundary sequence, notes that diatom survivorship across the K-T boundary was above 90 percent. Resting spores increase from 7 percent below to 35 percent across the K-T boundary.

b)  Dinoflagellates. Dinoflagellates also were little affected by the K-T event (Bujak and Williams, 1979). Brinkhuis and Zachariasse (1988) record no accelerated rates of extinction across the K-T boundary in Tunisia. Nor does Hultberg (1986) in Scandinavia. Danish dinoflagellates responded more by appearance of new species than by extinctions (Hansen, 1977), as did Seymour Island assemblages (Askin, 1988).

c) Yes other plankton did suffer massive extinctions but it wasn't because of the Asteroid or K-T event.

Marine calcareous microplankton, the coccolithophorids and planktonic foraminifera, were hit hardest of all by the K-T event. Thierstein (1981) proposes that the coccolithophorids extinctions were the most severe plankton extinction event in geologic history; via a "deconvolution" process, Thierstein (1981, 1982) reduced a Cretaceous-Tertiary "transition," in which Cretaceous assemblages were replaced by "new" Tertiary taxa, to an instantaneous catastrophe. Perch-Nielsen et al. (1982) note that the "catastrophic event"at the K-T boundary did not result in geologically instant extinction of the calcareous nannoplankton, and that most Cretaceous species survived the event. At DSDP Site 524, a sample above the K-T boundary contains 90 percent Cretaceous species. Isotopic analyses indicated that the Cretaceous species were not reworked specimens, but represented survivors of the K-T event that continued to reproduce in the earliest Tertiary oceans. The relict species became extinct some tens of thousands of years after K-T boundary time, probably via environmental stresses.

d) Antia and Cheng's (1970) work on survival times of phytoplankton species in complete darkness indicate that 1 month of complete blackout would produce 13 percent extinction, 3 months 68 percent extinction , and 6 months 81 percent. Thus, the 6 month to 1 year global blackout predicted by Wolbach et al. (1985) would have obliterated diatoms, dinoflagellate, and coccolithophorids precisely at the K-T boundary. A blackout event is not reflected in the algal record. The calcareous coccolithophorids and foraminifera were likely affected by pH change of the marine mixed layer via CO2 mantle degassing by the Deccan Traps volcanism.

So please tell me how did photoplankton who depend on sunlight for their very exsistance not only not die out but actually thrive during a global blackout??

e) And the real kicker is,  Microfossils are actually found in the Chicxulub crater itself!!! and even though they are essentially at "Ground Zero" they show no ill effects.

138 posted on 07/09/2004 2:36:49 PM PDT by qam1 (Tommy Thompson is a Fat-tubby, Fascist)
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To: LibWhacker
They survived it so obviously there was some food for them.

Or it didn't happen as this scientist says it did, which is the most likely slice of Occam's Razor.

139 posted on 07/09/2004 3:11:58 PM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: Michael121
He said that there is a little tree frog in S. America and if you change his surrounding temp by a degree it DIES.

It is statements like this that give me pause about Bob Bakker's sanity.

Where in South America, does the atmospheric temperature NOT vary by at least ONE degree? Even at night? Can't happen.

An amphibian moves between water and land. The difference in temperature between the two would vary by at least one degree.

140 posted on 07/09/2004 3:18:54 PM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (May the wings of Liberty never lose so much as a feather.)
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To: null and void
Did ungulate mammals exist 65 myo? or did they evolve later?

From what I can find, The earliest ungulates go back 90 million years

Some birds do burrow, or take over existing burrows.

Yeah a few, But the vast majority do not and the vast majority of birds seemed to come through with no problem.

Plus even if Alligators and Frogs were underwater during the impact wouldn't they die when they came up to breath?

Many species of frog burrow into the mud and estivate during the summer or drought.

And many do not,

I can see some frogs and possibly some birds making it but all of them? No way!!

No particular reason 'gator eggs wouldn't survive, as you contend some dino eggs did. (KEWL!)

Because whether a gator is a male or female depends on the temperature the eggs are exposed to, So even if they survived the heat blast the global winter afterwards if it didn't kill them outright it would guarantee all gators would be born the same sex, So they would have gone extinct eventually anyhow. 

And I don't contend that, the Geologist (of course) who found the fossils is guessing/wishing it. Geologist tend to make up all kinds of crazy things when they find something that conflicts with the Dino-Asteroid hypothesis (see the "Iridium is missing from the Chicxulub crater itself!!!!" link I posted before, The findings in that report clearly show that whatever happened at Chicxulub has nothing to do with the K-T yet the scientists refuses to even consider the possibility, They even go as far to say so in the paper, and instead they come up with all kinds of crazy explanations)  

But it does bring up a good point in regards to this article, If gator eggs could survive the heat blast why couldn't buried Dino eggs around the world (not just in New Mexico) survive?  

Just a guess - Bottom layer large/or low ejection angle (initial impact) spherules that settled out early. Mid layer turbite marls for the seiches of water sloshing in the Gulf of Mexico basin. Top layer lighter/high ejection angle (carbonate decomposition driven) ejecta.

No, The two spherule layers can not be from the same Asteroid. 

Another picture of the duel sphere layer from the Geological society

Figure 3. El Penon, Mexico. Impact spherule layer at base of siliciclastic deposit is separated by a 15-20 cm thick sandy limestone. J-shaped burrows infilled with spherules are present in the sandy limestone and sandstone unit above. This indicates that both the spherule and sandstone units were deposited over an extended time period that excludes tsunami deposition.

I see most of the data supporting an impact and impact triggered vulcanism as consistent with the pattern of victims and survivors. I don't see anything that doesn't fit the hypothesis.

I see vulcanism being the reason or having a part in the demise of the Dinosaurs and other creatures but not an Asteroid.

Another thing to note is there is increasing evidence that the Chicxulub crater predates the end-Cretaceous mass extinction by about 300,000 years. (More info here and here).

We are clearly operating off subtly different data sets, and have reached differing conclusions. It will be fascinating to see where and how we converge on a consistent understanding.

We will, Once the Asteroid killed the Dinosaurs hypothesis is finally extinct.

Once again, excellent post. This is why I love FR!

You might then enjoy this article http://forteantimesmag.co.uk/articles/111_asteroid.shtml  (Yeah, Yeah , I know what site it comes from but it's the best take on this "Controversy" I've seen)

141 posted on 07/09/2004 3:37:02 PM PDT by qam1 (Tommy Thompson is a Fat-tubby, Fascist)
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To: William Terrell
It's very hard to dispute the evidence that we were clobbered by a very large impactor 65 million years ago, or that the implications for life would have been catastrophic. The only question is how catastrophic. There is no doubt at all that 70% of all species were wiped out.

Personally, when it comes to describing the physical effects of such a collision, such as broiling hot skies, sulphurous emissions, the release of vast quantities of carbon dioxide, etc., I prefer to listen to the physicists and geologists who know something about the subject, and NOT fossilists whose understanding of physics often doesn't even rise to the sophomore level. Their professional jealousy is obvious and rather pitiful; they should not allow it to get in the way of good science, but do.

However, when it comes to describing the fossil record of the extinction, how long it took, which species disappeared, etc., then I admit I would prefer to listen to the palaentologists (to the extent that their version of things does not contradict the hard physical evidence). They make many excellent points it seems to me. But their endless tantrums don't make it easy.

The debate is interesting and important. I just wish palaentologists would stop acting like a bunch of spoiled, pouting, foot-stomping brats. They had their century-long chance -- and then some -- at explaining the extinction of the dinosaurs but never even came close.

142 posted on 07/09/2004 3:59:26 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: swilhelm73
And wouldn't that have killed every land plant?

Possible, but if you enter a burned over area a few weeks after a forest fire, you'll see stuff sprouting everywhere; some from buried seed, some from remaining root systems.

143 posted on 07/09/2004 4:11:37 PM PDT by JimRed (Fight election fraud! Volunteer as a local poll watcher, challenger or district official.)
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To: kjam22
40 days and 40 nights?

Not being there,I wouldn't even hazard a guess. :)

If things happened halfway as theorized though,the rain afterward must have been a real toad choker.

144 posted on 07/09/2004 4:20:59 PM PDT by Free Trapper (Because we ate the green mammals first!)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

I remember what was said but not who said it. But he appears a lot on Discovery Kids or the kid Dino show.

But his theory is that of virus killing off the dinos not asteroids.


145 posted on 07/09/2004 4:38:48 PM PDT by Michael121 (An old soldier knows truth. Only a Dead Soldier knows peace.)
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To: lelio
Meteor impact table

You might like this link. It uses kinetic energy calculations to determine approximate energy yields for various impacting bodies.

146 posted on 07/09/2004 4:49:46 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (Many a law, many a commandment have I broken, but my word never.)
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To: freebilly
Sure, and the animals that burrowed underground or sheltered in water survived how? By eating what?

By eating roast dinosaur.
147 posted on 07/09/2004 4:58:18 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: LibWhacker
Yes, but the fact is that, like all events and conditions millions of years ago, we have objects that can be seen as evidence and can mean what we think it means. I believe it's a conceit to think we can have anything but a very foggy fringe idea of time periods so long gone and covered, much less which caused what to happen.

They're all entertaining stories and mind puzzles, but there they stop.

148 posted on 07/09/2004 5:08:08 PM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: qam1

Thanks!


149 posted on 07/09/2004 5:13:52 PM PDT by null and void (Why is OUR oil under THEIR sand???)
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To: ZULU
FWIW,there's at least one freshwater turtle that can take in oxygen from the water through it's anus.

I...uh..."kid" you not.

150 posted on 07/09/2004 5:32:13 PM PDT by Free Trapper (Because we ate the green mammals first!)
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