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Fossil Findings Blur Picture Of Art's Birth (Neanderthals?)
Nature ^ | 7-7-2004 | Michael Hopkins

Posted on 07/08/2004 11:27:07 AM PDT by blam

Published online: 07 July 2004
Michael Hopkin

Fossil findings blur picture of art's birth

Who created the earliest artwork?

Artworks from Germany were found alongside human remains.

For years archaeologists have clung to the idea that only truly modern humans were artists, and that our Neanderthal cousins spent their entire evolutionary lifetime as boorish philistines. But fresh analysis of a prized set of human bones has dealt a body blow to this cherished theory.

The first sparks of artistic creativity are seen in carved figurines found at various sites throughout Europe. The oldest examples are between 30,000 and 40,000 years old, which means they were created about the time that modern humans are thought to have blazed a trail across the continent, displacing Neanderthals as they went.

Many experts argue that this cannot be simple coincidence. Art arrived in Europe with modern humans, they say. As proof, they point to the Vogelherd caves near Ulm, Germany, where a dozen figurines of this vintage, as well as stone tools, were unearthed alongside Homo sapiens remains in 1931.

However, no one had proved that the Vogelherd bones and artwork were the same age, says Nicholas Conard of the University of Tübingen, Germany, who led the new study. "Speculation is cheap," he says. "It sounds plausible, but you need evidence."

Dating game

Conard's team have now dated the artefacts, by looking at the rates of decay of radioactive carbon atoms in samples taken from the specimens. As he and his colleagues report in this week's Nature1, the bones are only about 5,000 years old, which is much younger than the stone tools and artworks that litter their resting place.

The Vogelherd humans must have been deliberately buried, much as we inter our dead today, Conard's team concludes. And this means that researchers have lost a valuable lead in their hunt for the artists who created the figurines.

"It is disappointing," says Clive Gamble, an archaeologist at the University of Southampton, UK. The discovery leaves experts without a concrete link between art's origins and modern man.

Everyone assumes that modern man made the first art. But no one knows the true story.

Nicholas Conard University of Tübingen

Does this mean, then, that Neanderthals could have been artists too? After all, they lived in Europe alongside modern humans at the time of art's first flowering. Perhaps, says Gamble, although it seems unlikely given that they are thought to have arrived in Europe around 200,000 years ago, long before the earliest art.

Still, Gamble admits that Vogelherd has taught archaeologists not to assume the figurines were made by modern man just because they are the right age. "It's like saying that every baguette must have been made by a Frenchman," he says.

Until someone finds bones and art of the same age buried together, the true picture will stay hidden, agrees Conard. "Everyone assumes that modern man made the art, and the Vogelherd humans were supposed to prove that," he says. "But now no one knows the real story."


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: archaeology; arts; birth; blue; economic; findings; fossil; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; neandertal; neandertals; neanderthal; neanderthals; picture

1 posted on 07/08/2004 11:27:07 AM PDT by blam
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To: FairOpinion

GGG Ping.


2 posted on 07/08/2004 11:27:48 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam

3 posted on 07/08/2004 11:33:36 AM PDT by My2Cents ("Well.....there you go again.")
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To: blam

I worked with an engineer who looked exactly like the Neanderthals you see in the recreations of what they looked like. His brow, His teeth, hair,even the way he walked. Put a spear in his hand & you would have thought you were transported back in time.

His favorite hobby was carving beautiful chess sets out of stone.

They intermarried I believe, hogswash they died out



4 posted on 07/08/2004 11:43:20 AM PDT by underbyte (Arrogance will drop your IQ 50 points)
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To: blam

5 posted on 07/08/2004 11:45:13 AM PDT by EggsAckley ("We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." Evita Rodham Clinton)
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To: underbyte
Redheads 'Are Neanderthals'

The incidence of red hair is the same for Libyians as it is for the Irish.

6 posted on 07/08/2004 11:50:26 AM PDT by blam
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To: EggsAckley

Hi Eggs, Is that a woven fabric on the head of the Venus Idol in post #5?


7 posted on 07/08/2004 11:52:32 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam
As he and his colleagues report in this week's Nature1, the bones are only about 5,000 years old...

Funny, I thought they were older.


8 posted on 07/08/2004 11:56:26 AM PDT by SirChas
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To: blam
I've always interpreted that to be the hair of the female subject. Never thought of it as a fabric. Hmmmmm.

It's the Venus of Willendorf, btw. I love it. I have a ceramic replica of it that is wonderful. And it's one of the few fragile things that survived our earthquake. It actually went flying and then ricocheted off of something, made a 90 degree turn, and ended up in the bathroom sink.
LOL!
9 posted on 07/08/2004 11:57:20 AM PDT by EggsAckley ("We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." Evita Rodham Clinton)
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To: EggsAckley
" Never thought of it as a fabric."

I think I read something about the 'experts' arguing over that.

Lol, she's built to with-stand earthquakes.

10 posted on 07/08/2004 12:00:10 PM PDT by blam
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To: EggsAckley

Whoa! Don't show that to Bill Clinton, he'll have a wardrobe malfunction...


11 posted on 07/08/2004 12:00:52 PM PDT by COBOL2Java (If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading this in English, thank a soldier.)
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To: blam

.....brick ****house comes to mind. No wonder she ended up in the bathroom!


12 posted on 07/08/2004 12:05:05 PM PDT by EggsAckley ("We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." Evita Rodham Clinton)
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To: blam

I thought the latest thinking was the Neanderthals DID make/own/wear decorative items towards the end of their time on earth, but what was not clear was whether they were truly being "creative" or were merely aping their new Cro-Magnon neighbors without understanding what they were doing.


13 posted on 07/08/2004 12:05:21 PM PDT by AppleButter
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To: EggsAckley
"I think I read something about the 'experts' arguing over that."

Yup. Here.

Clothing Of Figurines May Be Record Of Ice Age Tribes' Skill

14 posted on 07/08/2004 12:05:22 PM PDT by blam
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To: EggsAckley

The fertility goddess harkens back to a time when women ruled their communities. And isn't that big gold lady a beaut?


15 posted on 07/08/2004 12:08:17 PM PDT by Ciexyz ("FR, best viewed with a budgie on hand")
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To: AppleButter
"I thought the latest thinking was the Neanderthals DID make/own/wear decorative items towards the end of their time on earth, but what was not clear was whether they were truly being "creative" or were merely aping their new Cro-Magnon neighbors without understanding what they were doing."

Yup. That's about the last I've heard on this too.

Contempory studies have shown that brain size correlates with IQ. Cro-Magnon Man had a larger brain than present day humans...we're breeding down.(?)

16 posted on 07/08/2004 12:09:08 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam

Wow! Again you amaze me blam! Nice find; fascinating.


17 posted on 07/08/2004 12:11:01 PM PDT by EggsAckley ("We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." Evita Rodham Clinton)
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To: *Gods, Graves, Glyphs; A.J.Armitage; abner; adam_az; AdmSmith; Alas Babylon!; blam; NukeMan; ...
PING

This is a "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" -- Archeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc. PING list.

Please FREEPMAIL me, if you want on or off this list.

18 posted on 07/09/2004 7:18:51 PM PDT by FairOpinion (If you are not voting for Bush, you are voting for the terrorists.)
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To: blam

The horse pictured above is beautiful and, to me, shows a maked similatity to the art style of the caves -- 30,000 to 40,000 years ago. A golden age?


19 posted on 07/09/2004 7:28:21 PM PDT by JimSEA ( "More Bush, Less Taxes.")
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To: blam

Interesting article;thanks for the link. :-)


20 posted on 07/09/2004 7:35:21 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: JimSEA
"A golden age?"

We (humans) were a lot closer to the big brained Cro-Magnon back then. We've lost a lot of brain capacity and probably IQ since then.

21 posted on 07/09/2004 7:37:38 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam; ValerieUSA
Does this mean, then, that Neanderthals could have been artists too? After all, they lived in Europe alongside modern humans at the time of art's first flowering. Perhaps, says Gamble, although it seems unlikely given that they are thought to have arrived in Europe around 200,000 years ago, long before the earliest art.
Of course, the likelihood of 200,000 year old art surviving is about as low as art sample that old being accepted for what they are:
'Oldest sculpture' found in Morocco
by Paul Rincon
A 400,000-year-old stone object unearthed in Morocco could be the world's oldest attempt at sculpture... The object, which is around six centimetres in length, is shaped like a human figure, with grooves that suggest a neck, arms and legs. On its surface are flakes of a red substance that could be remnants of paint. The object was found 15 metres below the eroded surface of a terrace on the north bank of the River Draa near the town of Tan-Tan. It was reportedly lying just a few centimetres away from stone handaxes in ground layers dating to the Middle Acheulian period, which lasted from 500,000 to 300,000 years ago... A 200,000-300,000-year-old stone object found at Berekhat Ram in Israel in 1986 has also been the subject of claims that it is a figurine. However, several other researchers later presented evidence to show that it was probably shaped by geological processes.
There's a massive bias against human qualities that are considered "advanced" to be discerned in the leavings of vanished humans of very long ago. The Berekhat Ram object was also shaped by humans. Imagine however that the best known sculpture of our day should lay in the soil for 100s of 1000s of years...
George W. Bush will be reelected by a margin of at least ten per cent

22 posted on 07/09/2004 11:14:38 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Unlike some people, I have a profile. Okay, maybe it's a little large...)
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To: underbyte

I have also known few people who look like the Neanderthals :)


23 posted on 07/10/2004 3:33:33 AM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: blam
Contempory studies have shown that brain size correlates with IQ. Cro-Magnon Man had a larger brain than present day humans...we're breeding down.(?)

I think you are right about that. I wonder which parts of their brains were bigger than ours. I would think that would be important to knowing how smart they were and in what way. I think the horse statue is really nice and doesn't look primitive but very sophisticated.

24 posted on 12/04/2004 2:17:01 PM PST by Bellflower (A NEW DAY IS COMING!)
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To: Bellflower
"I think you are right about that. I wonder which parts of their brains were bigger than ours. I would think that would be important to knowing how smart they were and in what way. I think the horse statue is really nice and doesn't look primitive but very sophisticated."

I've made this comment a number of times on different threads, you're the first to ever respond. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that ponders such things.

25 posted on 12/04/2004 4:03:39 PM PST by blam
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To: blam

I am Art and I know exactly when I was born.


26 posted on 12/04/2004 4:06:14 PM PST by aculeus
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Just updating the GGG information, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

27 posted on 02/26/2006 8:59:46 PM PST by SunkenCiv (My Sunday Feeling is that Nothing is easy. Goes for the rest of the week too.)
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To: blam

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic ·

 
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Just updating the GGG info, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

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28 posted on 03/21/2009 4:29:08 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/____________________ Profile updated Monday, January 12, 2009)
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