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Bashing burns Ken (Defends Michael Moore)
Toronto Sun ^ | July 9, 2004 | Bill Brioux

Posted on 07/09/2004 5:52:30 AM PDT by YourAdHere

Get off Michael Moore's back.

That was the message yesterday from fellow documentarian Ken Burns, fed up with right-wing carping against Moore's anti-Bush rant Fahrenheit 9/11. "Of course he's entitled to express his opinion --that's what this country is all about," says Burns, best known for epic documentaries The Civil War, Baseball and Jazz. "You're supposed to be able to stand up here and say, 'This guy is a schmuck.' "

Burns concedes that Moore has an agenda, but so what? "Whatever your argument about his methodology, this is a man with a deep, abiding sympathy for the working man," he says.

Burns was on the press tour promoting his upcoming PBS project Unforgivable Blackness: The Rise And Fall Of Jack Johnson. The unblinking portrait of the first African-American heavyweight champion -- who so dominated white opponents he inspired race riots in the early 20th century -- will air next January on PBS. Samuel L. Jackson, Billy Bob Thorton and Ed Harris provide narration for the film. Burns hopes to bring it to Toronto this September for the International Film Festival.

While he defends Moore's right to make the films he wants, Burns did take issue with his math. With a $70-million U.S. box office and counting, Moore claims Fahrenheit is already the most successful documentary of all time.

Burns figures that means roughly 7 to 10 million people have seen the film. "That's a good night for us on PBS," he says, arguing that, while his The Civil War never had a feature release, far more peole have seen it.

Burns told a story about meeting Moore two years ago at a film festival where they were joined by European filmmaker Werner Herzog. Herzog sized up all three documentarians this way: He was after the estatic truth, Burns went for emotional truth and Moore was after physical truth. "Just look how he puts his big belly right up on the screen," Herzog said of Moore.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: fahrenheit911; kenburns; michaelmoore
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1 posted on 07/09/2004 5:52:32 AM PDT by YourAdHere
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To: YourAdHere

"You're supposed to be able to stand up here and say, 'This guy is a schmuck"

And that's exactly what we're doing, Kenny.


2 posted on 07/09/2004 5:54:42 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: YourAdHere

Burns is now officialy on my sh*t list.


3 posted on 07/09/2004 5:56:21 AM PDT by loveitor..
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To: YourAdHere
"Of course he's entitled to express his opinion --that's what this country is all about," says Burns, best known for epic documentaries The Civil War, Baseball and Jazz.

Freedom cuts both ways. That includes embracing the bashers right to bash the Fatboy.

4 posted on 07/09/2004 5:56:36 AM PDT by zarf
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To: YourAdHere

Obviously Ken doesn't watch Moore's documentaries or doesn't care.


5 posted on 07/09/2004 5:56:43 AM PDT by Bogey78O (Counter offer. All prisoners are to be killed unless he is released)
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To: YourAdHere

Mikhal Moore is allowed to express his opion, but anyone that bashes him is not? How does that work?


6 posted on 07/09/2004 5:57:05 AM PDT by midwestmidnight
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To: YourAdHere
Samuel L. Jackson, Billy Bob Thorton and Ed Harris provide narration for the film.

Now there's a trifecta.

7 posted on 07/09/2004 5:57:11 AM PDT by facedown (Armed in the Heartland)
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To: YourAdHere

Only Burns could make jazz boring.Hey Ken, SDASTFU!


8 posted on 07/09/2004 5:57:57 AM PDT by SirLurkedalot (God bless our Veterans!!! And God bless America!!!)
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To: Larry Lucido
Has Kenny heard about a government-sponsored campaign to storm movie house, seize the film, and burn it? Forcible suppression of movies by Fascist Republicans?

What? That's not happening? Then what's Kenny's point?

9 posted on 07/09/2004 5:58:24 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (The Fourth Estate is a Fifth Column)
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To: YourAdHere

Those who disagree with Moore have the same right to free speech as Moore.


10 posted on 07/09/2004 6:00:00 AM PDT by The_Victor
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To: YourAdHere
"You're supposed to be able to stand up here and say, 'This guy is a schmuck.' "

That's what we're doing...
This guy Moore is a big, fat, ugly schmuck.

11 posted on 07/09/2004 6:00:42 AM PDT by evad (Tax Man and Tort Boy..remolding America in their image)
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To: zarf

Isn't it funny how the liberals are just for freedom of speech only when it is them having the freedom to slander like they do. When it is pointed out that Michael Moore is a radical who pushes lying propaganda and proven to be a liar they whine for people to stop the criticism! Ken Burns gave a speech to the graduates of Yale this yr. trashing President George W. Bush and the war. He's not exactly apolitical and unbiased. They are such losers shown to be fools.


12 posted on 07/09/2004 6:00:55 AM PDT by bushfamfan
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To: YourAdHere
"Whatever your argument about his methodology, this is a man with a deep, abiding sympathy for the working man,"

I would disagree with Burns. I don't think Moore has "...abiding sympathy for the working man." ... at least the American working man. I think he thinks the American working man is stupid and gullible. And why wouldn't he think that? Look at the ease with which he has been able to promote his propaganda as fact. However, that's my opinion and I'd appreciate it if MY opinions weren't stereotyped by the author of this article as "right wing carping".

13 posted on 07/09/2004 6:01:06 AM PDT by rhombus
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To: Larry Lucido
"You're supposed to be able to stand up here and say, 'This guy is a schmuck"

And that's exactly what we're doing, Kenny.

I think you missed Burns' point. "You're supposed to be able to stand up here...". The "here" is the high ground of the documentarian. The peanut gallary is supposed to keep their mouths shut, especially when talking about their betters like Michael Moore.

14 posted on 07/09/2004 6:01:56 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (If life gives you lemons, make lemonade. Warm & sour lemonade because life didn't give ice & sugar.)
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To: YourAdHere
Burns, best known for epic documentaries The Civil War, Baseball and Jazz

I remember Burns' East Coast-centric baseball documentary. Someone said afterwards "maybe PBS can now do a documentary about baseball in cities other than New York and Boston".

15 posted on 07/09/2004 6:02:40 AM PDT by Numbers Guy
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Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: YourAdHere
Burns concedes that Moore has an agenda, but so what? "Whatever your argument about his methodology, this is a man with a deep, abiding sympathy for the working man," he says.

...Burns told a story about meeting Moore two years ago at a film festival where they were joined by European filmmaker Werner Herzog. Herzog sized up all three documentarians this way: He was after the estatic truth, Burns went for emotional truth and Moore was after physical truth. "Just look how he puts his big belly right up on the screen," Herzog said of Moore.

What kinda horse spit is that? "Physical truth" means that Moore isn't ashamed of his girth rather than making sure that his film tells what actually has happened?

Ken Burns' just sacrificed his own credibility to defend Michael Moore. Incredible.

That's a shame. I used to respect Burns. But now, I know that to him "truth" is flexible, bendible. I don't deal with people who think that they are entitled to their own "truth."

18 posted on 07/09/2004 6:09:34 AM PDT by L.N. Smithee (Michael MOOOOOOore is full of bull)
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To: facedown

Ed Harris! That weenie had to surrender his nutsack to his ol lady YEARS AGO!


19 posted on 07/09/2004 6:10:01 AM PDT by gunnygail (I'd KICK Mike Mooreon in the A$$ but then, he'd have to make a spot, he's ALL A$$!)
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To: BuggyOwen
Now, now...The Civil War was terrific.

Everything since then has been a pale imitation.

20 posted on 07/09/2004 6:10:25 AM PDT by zarf
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To: zarf

I'm eagerly waiting for part two if the Civil War, the RIGHT against the pacifist LONNEY LEFT...should be fun. I mean, it sucks shooting unarmed people but DAMMIT! someone has to do it!


21 posted on 07/09/2004 6:11:39 AM PDT by gunnygail (I'd KICK Mike Mooreon in the A$$ but then, he'd have to make a spot, he's ALL A$$!)
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To: gunnygail

sorry, that should read LOONEY LEFT!


22 posted on 07/09/2004 6:12:08 AM PDT by gunnygail (I'd KICK Mike Mooreon in the A$$ but then, he'd have to make a spot, he's ALL A$$!)
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To: YourAdHere

Fellow documentarian?!

What is the "fellow documentarian" crap?!

There's a million light years worth of difference between Ken Burns and Michael Moore.

I wish the media would stop calling Fahrenheit 911 a documentary. It's anything BUT a documentary.


23 posted on 07/09/2004 6:12:19 AM PDT by MplsSteve
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To: YourAdHere
Of course he's entitled to express his opinion --that's what this country is all about," says Burns, best known for epic documentaries The Civil War, Baseball and Jazz. "You're supposed to be able to stand up here and say, 'This guy is a schmuck.' "

But apparently, we're not allowed to do the same in return. Go suck cheese, Burns.

24 posted on 07/09/2004 6:13:08 AM PDT by dirtboy (John Kerry - Hillary without the fat ankles and the FBI files...)
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To: rhombus
Burns concedes that Moore has an agenda, but so what? "Whatever your argument about his methodology, this is a man with a deep, abiding sympathy for the working man," he says.

Moore has sympathy for working men -- the problem is that the sympathy is for the working men of Al Qaeda.

25 posted on 07/09/2004 6:15:31 AM PDT by vbmoneyspender
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To: YourAdHere
If Ken Burns had done HIS Documentaries the same way lazy assed Moore does his, we'd have been hearing how Yosemite Sam won the Battle of Gettysburg for the USWA and how Roy Hobbs was the greatest baseball player of all time!

He should be DISTANCING HIMSELF from the jerkface just on accuracy alone!

26 posted on 07/09/2004 6:16:26 AM PDT by Wondervixen (Ask for her by name--Accept no substitutes!)
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To: loveitor..
Burns is too tied to PBS...the Proven Bull $hit network. Once the gay guy came out on the last reality show they had, I was done with PBS. These people need to do a little more research on their history...ever hear of the Mayflower Compact???
27 posted on 07/09/2004 6:16:44 AM PDT by 4everontheRight (The Liberal Media - the world's vast left wing conspiracy - GW'04 - Rice'08)
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To: YourAdHere
. "You're supposed to be able to stand up here and say, 'This guy is a schmuck.' "

Unless, of course, you're saying my butt-buddy is a schmuck, then it's "Hate Speech."

28 posted on 07/09/2004 6:20:12 AM PDT by j_tull ("I may make you feel, but I can't make you think.")
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To: YourAdHere
This is not about Michael Moore's opinions. It's about a pile of lies. There are a lot of Bush bashers who contend even if Moore's movies have errors, they raise "important issues" that we should discuss. Bullshit. You don't have serious discussions about lies. That's like saying we need to discuss why the CIA had JFK killed. Or it's an important issue that FDR deliberately permitted the IJN to attack Pearl Harbor.
29 posted on 07/09/2004 6:20:59 AM PDT by Dilbert56
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To: YourAdHere
h. With a $70-million U.S. box office and counting, Moore claims Fahrenheit is already the most successful documentary of all time.

Of course, that depends one what the meaning of "documentary" is.

30 posted on 07/09/2004 6:21:40 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative (Do not remove this tag under penalty of law.)
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To: dirtboy
"Joe" as played by Peter Boyle, to Ken Burns:

GET A HAIRCUT, YA FRIGGIN' HIPPIE BUM!

31 posted on 07/09/2004 6:28:15 AM PDT by The Scourge of Yazid (Call me stupid. Call me lazy. Just don't call me a lightweight. Post #756 coming up folks!)
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To: SirLurkedalot; L.N. Smithee
Don't worry.

As captivating as the Jack Johnson story is, I'm sure that Ken Burns will find a way to make it interminably boring.

If he can't do it, no one can.

32 posted on 07/09/2004 6:30:03 AM PDT by The Scourge of Yazid (Call me stupid. Call me lazy. Just don't call me a lightweight. Post #756 coming up folks!)
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To: Dilbert56
There are a lot of Bush bashers who contend even if Moore's movies have errors, they raise "important issues" that we should discuss.

Simple Consistency Check: See how many of them agree that, even if the The Clinton Chronicles had "errors", it nevertheless raises "important issues" that we should discuss.

33 posted on 07/09/2004 6:31:06 AM PDT by steve-b (Panties & Leashes Would Look Good On Spammers)
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To: loveitor..

You and me both. I like Burn's work, but from now on he is persona non grata in my book.


34 posted on 07/09/2004 6:33:23 AM PDT by Sunshine Sister
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To: Numbers Guy; lavrenti; NYC GOP Chick
Oh man, now you've gone and done it!

You've united the disparate coalitions of baseball fans living in both Boston and New York.

Now, you'll have to deal with twice the sheer arrogance and obnoxiousness.

NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

35 posted on 07/09/2004 6:33:24 AM PDT by The Scourge of Yazid (Call me stupid. Call me lazy. Just don't call me a lightweight. Post #756 coming up folks!)
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To: YourAdHere

Ken Burns has a real talent for playing music while showing still photographs and interviews with academics. His documentaries prove that even the most interesting history doesn't have to be dynamic or interesting. That said, I am suprised that he considers F911 to be a documentary and not propaganda.


36 posted on 07/09/2004 6:34:37 AM PDT by rmgatto
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To: steve-b; doug from upland
HA-HA!

I'll be sure to use that analogy during my next encounter with the species liberalis maximus.

A rare breed known only to circulate within the environs of the Upper West Side, Chelsea, and Park Slope.

They also happen to be very big fans of Michael Moore's oeuvre.

37 posted on 07/09/2004 6:37:17 AM PDT by The Scourge of Yazid (Call me stupid. Call me lazy. Just don't call me a lightweight. Post #756 coming up folks!)
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To: YourAdHere

I own Burn's Civil War series, have since it first became available ($140 at the time, in VHS). Its one of the great works on the topic specifically, and is fact based.

Moore's work is not "documentary" its pure unabashed socialist propaganda. Farenheit 9/11 is our generations "Triumph of Will"....only not as well done.

I feel sorry for Burns, to be honest. He will never reach the heights he attained a decade ago, and I think its beginning to bother him.


38 posted on 07/09/2004 6:39:44 AM PDT by Badeye ("The day you stop learning, is the day you begin dying")
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To: BuggyOwen; IgnatiusReilly

Welcome to Free Republic!!!!


39 posted on 07/09/2004 6:40:28 AM PDT by Sunshine Sister
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To: SirLurkedalot

Welcome to FR!!!!!


40 posted on 07/09/2004 6:41:33 AM PDT by Sunshine Sister
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To: The Scourge of Yazid

Jack Johnson is one of my heroes.Considering the time period it took a lot of ba**s to walk down the street with a white woman.And kick the s*** out of the moron who got in his face.He would dare whole crowds to try him. I'm sure Burns will ruin it.


41 posted on 07/09/2004 6:41:51 AM PDT by SirLurkedalot (God bless our Veterans!!! And God bless America!!!)
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To: zarf
I think Herzog got it right on this one.

Actung!

The Germans got it right?(!)

Vill vonders never cease?

42 posted on 07/09/2004 6:42:31 AM PDT by The Scourge of Yazid (Call me stupid. Call me lazy. Just don't call me a lightweight. Post #756 coming up folks!)
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To: Sunshine Sister

Thanks.Glad to be here.


43 posted on 07/09/2004 6:45:46 AM PDT by SirLurkedalot (God bless our Veterans!!! And God bless America!!!)
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To: SirLurkedalot
Don't forget.

He was also the only black Heavyweight champ before Joe Louis won the title and defended it with an unblemished record-with the exception of a singular defeat to Max Schmelling-until his first retirement from the "sweet science."

Yup.

Burns'll blow this one.

Big-time!

44 posted on 07/09/2004 6:46:00 AM PDT by The Scourge of Yazid (Call me stupid. Call me lazy. Just don't call me a lightweight. Post #756 coming up folks!)
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To: Dilbert56
He's laughing all the way to the hot dog stand...

Hee Hee!


45 posted on 07/09/2004 6:46:23 AM PDT by SquirrelKing ("I have to march because my mother could not have an abortion." - Maxine Waters (D - California)
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To: dirtboy
John Kerry - Hillary without the fat ankles and the FBI files..

You gotta admit, that is an improvement.

46 posted on 07/09/2004 6:47:40 AM PDT by murdoog
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To: The Scourge of Yazid

Shoot, I did forget that.


47 posted on 07/09/2004 6:47:57 AM PDT by SirLurkedalot (God bless our Veterans!!! And God bless America!!!)
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To: SquirrelKing
New thought.

We submit the name of Michael "Munch" for next year's annual "Nathan's, Coney Island Hot Dog-Eating Contest."

Kobayashi will be shaking in his socks!

48 posted on 07/09/2004 6:49:28 AM PDT by The Scourge of Yazid (Call me stupid. Call me lazy. Just don't call me a lightweight. Post #756 coming up folks!)
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To: SirLurkedalot
That's what I'm here for.

Schmelling?

Humbug!

And Hamburg.

49 posted on 07/09/2004 6:50:39 AM PDT by The Scourge of Yazid (Call me stupid. Call me lazy. Just don't call me a lightweight. Post #756 coming up folks!)
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To: The Scourge of Yazid
Kobayashi will be shaking in his socks!


I can't do it! He's...he's...a machine!

50 posted on 07/09/2004 7:06:43 AM PDT by SquirrelKing ("I have to march because my mother could not have an abortion." - Maxine Waters (D - California)
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